383 Stroker build...out of the catalog.

[L695speed]

I'm looking at possibly just doing a 383 build out of the Summit catalog. Where I can find the same parts for less money I will do it. But here is the basic premise. I'm thinking everything will be cast as this is gonna be a street motor before anything else. It will see the track but primarily a street motor.

SBC 383. Carbed, I'm looking at a min of 500 HP and want it to rev above 6000 running on pump gas. I know the heads might kill me price wise. But I think this can be done without going sky high like I am finding on Craigslist. It will be going in my 84 TA with the T56 and 3.73 10 bolt rear (I already upgraded the axles, but will run the rear til it blows before going all out on that).

Cam suggestions would be appreciated, as would carb suggestions. I know fastburn heads can pull this off, but what would need to be done to a set of Vortecs to get up there? Reason I ask is, Vortecs are cheap and plentyful and I've seen them used on some serious cars.

I figure if I at least start this process and order parts then I can at least get a short block in the car and put the heads and etc on later. I would like to at least have the shopping list ready to go. I'm thinking 5.7 inch rods, 383 crank, I can probably run a factory oil pan with a Melling pump. I might get the chain, lifters, cam etc in a kit if I can do so.

Laugh all you want, but I'd appreciate serious suggestions on the cam and carb. I feel I have a fair idea of the bottom end. That is easy. Its the top that makes the difference though and that is where it gets murky.

[HardcoreZ28]

Vortecs will need work done on the spring areas to accomodate a large enough lift for that kind of power. I know they flow enough to hit the low 400 range but do some research to make sure they will support 500 horse when they are worked.

Spend the money on a good rotating assembly from someone like Eagle or Scat.

As far as cams....pick a manufacturer like Crane or Comp and call them with all of your other engine specs and let them know what you're after with power and engine characteristics and they will help you pick the appropriate cam.

For 500 horse you probably don't need the biggest carb out there.....maybe a good 750 or 800cfm unit...again the manufacturer should be able to help you pick the right size.

[L695speed]

Originally Posted by HardcoreZ28

Vortecs will need work done on the spring areas to accomodate a large enough lift for that kind of power. I know they flow enough to hit the low 400 range but do some research to make sure they will support 500 horse when they are worked.

Spend the money on a good rotating assembly from someone like Eagle or Scat.

As far as cams....pick a manufacturer like Crane or Comp and call them with all of your other engine specs and let them know what you're after with power and engine characteristics and they will help you pick the appropriate cam.

For 500 horse you probably don't need the biggest carb out there.....maybe a good 750 or 800cfm unit...again the manufacturer should be able to help you pick the right size.

OK, I am already looking at Scat stuff, might mix and match. I can't justify the price of the forged stuff for a mainly street motor. If I do go forged it will just be the crank. Some of the engine gurus over on TGO have said on some threads that a 750 carb should easily do the trick. I know shipping might kill some of the prices, but I've been watching for a once piece RMS block or short block that doesn't need too much work (I saw the 400 dollar one that wasn't stored right, don't think I want to go there) and the best I've found was a 2 piece RMS motor with a blown head gasket. Would need to strip it down and redo most of it anyway. I'll sit down and do up the list, and you guys can tell me what you think.

[WildBillyT]

Modified Vortecs can get you there, and in my opinion will probably be the best bang for the buck.

[L695speed]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Modified Vortecs can get you there, and in my opinion will probably be the best bang for the buck.

I am thinking if I can find a set of Vortecs locally for cheap (I've seen them) I'll pick them up and have a local builder go over them. I've heard good things about A-1 Crankshaft in Franklin, NJ. But if there are others nearby who will work with them to get what I want I'm open to suggestions.

They will probably need to be ported, and machined. The valves I believe are good to go as they are with maybe a 3 or 5 angle valve job. No need to go bigger from what I've seen. If I do go bigger it won't be much bigger.

[L695speed]

I talked to Chuck at Chucks Automotive Machining in Harmony off CR 519, he says it would be 4K and up. Pointed out that I could probably get what I want out of a Vortec 350 with a cam, flat tops, and port work. Realistically what would it take to get a early third gen F body into the mid 12s? 400? 450 HP?

The car weighs according to the invoice I got from PHS at 3200. 3350 with driver. I've ridden in 12 second cars so I know what I'm getting into. So lets say I do this.

Get a Vortec truck motor and convert it a carb, run the mechanical pump at the block, RPM Air Gap intake, LT4 roller Hot Cam, flat top pistons, LS1 or LS6 valve springs and maybe roller rockers. Port the heads to match the intake and vice versa. Drop the thing in there. Don't vortecs already run 330 HP? I may run a 282 or 276 cam instead of the LT4 Hotcam but it makes more sense to go with a roller cam.

Does anyone have a lead on a decent Vortec truck motor? I can ask at Newton auto salvage to see what hes got and what he wants, could ask a couple other places too. I figure if I do something like the above build, I can always stroke the bottom end over a winter and get more power out of that.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by L695speed

Realistically what would it take to get a early third gen F body into the mid 12s? 400? 450 HP?

ls1

[L695speed]

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

ls1

LOL I would have went that way, but I'm not a wiring genius. I suck at it. So I'm staying with a carb setup. LS1s won't run on carbs will they? I think you can get them to carbed but I'm not sure. Also unless someone does as straight trade on the LT1 T56 for a LS T56 and I change the clutch hydrualics I'm not doing it. Also I would need to change the fuel system etc. I just got done putting the tank back in mine, not going to take it out to swap to an LS1 at this stage. Really all I need is a motor.

[WildBillyT]

You don't need a roller engine to run Vortecs, just an FYI.

[L695speed]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

You don't need a roller engine to run Vortecs, just an FYI.

Yes but you need a one piece RMS to run the T56 without buying a 400 dollar flywheel. If I can run a flat tappet cam on a later block then I can consider that option. But seriously to get a third gen into mid 12s I think you only need like 400 HP to make it done easily. If thats the case then a 350 should do nicely shouldn't it? Sure it would be a lil wilder than the 383, but if it does what I want for a lil less and gets me back on the road then why not.

I also didn't like the idea of leaving power on the table by going with a flat tappet.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by L695speed

Yes but you need a one piece RMS to run the T56 without buying a 400 dollar flywheel. If I can run a flat tappet cam on a later block then I can consider that option. But seriously to get a third gen into mid 12s I think you only need like 400 HP to make it done easily. If thats the case then a 350 should do nicely shouldn't it? Sure it would be a lil wilder than the 383, but if it does what I want for a lil less and gets me back on the road then why not.

I also didn't like the idea of leaving power on the table by going with a flat tappet.

I was just throwing it out there in case you can't get a hold of exactly what you need. I would stick with a roller just to avoid the break-in stuff.

I think Slow Z ran Vortec 350 into the 11's in his IROC. Didn't take much.

[L695speed]

I know you are. Point Chuck was making was, you can still make the power and run on pump gas, to get into mid 12s easy with a 350. I'm just trying to figure out the build. I know the LT4 Hot cam and Vortecs is an excellent combo. A neighbor says I'm foolish to build one. Said to just get a crate motor and be on my way. True, and I can find a GMPP crate motor that makes 425 HP but it costs 5500 bucks. For what I want I think I can do better. Trick however, is finding that low dollar complete vortec truck motor, or a reasonably priced 350 short block. Can save the costs of machining for the 383 too.

[WildBillyT]

You get a warranty with a crate motor, which is a bonus, but the "street" ones tend to come with small cams and lower compression.

[L695speed]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

You get a warranty with a crate motor, which is a bonus, but the "street" ones tend to come with small cams and lower compression.

Yeah they seem to be setup to fall on their faces at 5-5500 RPMs. I want something that will rev past 6000. The crate motor I mentioned isn't bad, but I can get that power for probably 1500 dollars less easy and I would want it to rev a lil more. I am not that incompetent that I can't build one, I just don't have all the specialty tools for the measurements. I PM'ed Slow Z about his engine to see what he may have done and his power figures. Based on what I rode in having 374 at the crank and running mid 12s, I'd probably easily run mid 12s with a 3.73 vs that car's 3.42 and 400+ at the crank. I sort of like the idea of building a motor in the garage, but the warranty is definitely a bonus. Almost as the motor costs 4500 but you're paying another 1000 for the warranty.

[WildBillyT]

For what it's worth, Vortecs are not really known for being great above 5500-6000. It's below that where they really shine.

[L695speed]

What I mean is I don't want a redline at 5500, I'd rather have a redline at 62-6600. I know someone who is running ported vortecs on a 406 that revs to about 64-6600 before the redline.

[L695speed]

Seems like people are telling me to get a crate motor that I might wind up messing with anyway. Biggest problem with that is need like 4 grand up front, and you likely don't get every bit and piece you need. It would also take me a few years at this rate to put together that money. I don't want to wait that long. I'd do better with a Vortec truck motor from someplace like Harry's You Pull It in PA and build that even if I have it machined and etc. I would at least have the heads, a block and all the stupid lil bits and pieces like the oil filter attachment and oil pan, along with the rear main seal housing which doesn't come on a bare block or in some cases a short block.

If I have the whole motor, I have a place to start, even if I switch for the TA's HEI dizzy, and swap for a RPM Air Gap Manifold with a carb. Put a set of headers on it and off I go. Automatic close to 100HP increase over the factory L69. A 99 Vortec from a Suburban has 255 HP off the bat with 330 ft lbs of torque. I could live with that and build it up along with doing the bottom end and etc later if its not in bad shape.