Help ME understand Third Gen LS Vs. 4th Gen LS - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

ShowtimeSteeleLS1SS · 06-01-2009, 09:59 PM

I know my ls1's but know very little 4th gen ls . I want to build up my ls but sometimes i think of purchasing a newer ls crate engine or is it even worth it??

NJ Torque · 06-01-2009, 10:06 PM

Meaning a GENIV, an LS3/L72...

A heads and cam, or even a cam only package LS1 can run really well...

Mike · 06-01-2009, 10:08 PM

to switch to a gen4 (ls2, ls3, etc) you will either need to have a shop change the reluctor wheel on the crank, or use the wiring harness adapter to make it work. there is a TON of info on ls1tech regarding gen4 motor swaps, and i believe njspeeder has been researching them as well

NJ Torque · 06-01-2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrrmike

to switch to a gen4 (ls2, ls3, etc) you will either need to have a shop change the reluctor wheel on the crank, or use the wiring harness adapter to make it work. there is a TON of info on ls1tech regarding gen4 motor swaps, and i believe njspeeder has been researching them as well

A LS2 out of an GTO to swap into a Fbody, all you need to do is extent the cam sensor wire...

ShowtimeSteeleLS1SS · 06-01-2009, 10:12 PM

but is it worth it? the swap should i work the ls1 or swap then work

NJ Torque · 06-01-2009, 10:19 PM

What are you looking for power wise?

ShowtimeSteeleLS1SS · 06-01-2009, 10:56 PM

well i dont want any restrictions lol thats why i never did anything yet to my car cuz i will get addicted like i did with my lt1 camaro so i want something that i can go crazy on. I know it sounds ridiculous but i would like to have a twin turbo set up. and then a a nx express twin kit set up .

NJ Torque · 06-01-2009, 10:58 PM

In that case... get a GMPP LSX block, some nice forged internals and good heads and your set....

Mike · 06-01-2009, 11:00 PM

if your planning a boosted+nitrous setup you might want to consider building up a forged iron block 6.0 from a truck.....

06-01-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrrmike

if your planning a boosted+nitrous setup you might want to consider building up a forged iron block 6.0 from a truck.....

vortec 6.0 + l92 heads + lumpy cam and other parts = win

If you want no restrictions you want a built bottom end. If i personally had an ls1 f body, i would look for an ls2 short block, l92 heads, l76 intake, research my cam choice, and full bolt ons. It would be a couple grand but youd end up with an easy 500 hp with no power adders. As far as worth it? The 4 inch bore affords you a little bit more potential. If your going to swap a motor i would think a genIII compatible ls2 would be your best dolar/power potential ratio

PolarBear · 06-02-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrrmike

to switch to a gen4 (ls2, ls3, etc) you will either need to have a shop change the reluctor wheel on the crank, or use the wiring harness adapter to make it work. there is a TON of info on ls1tech regarding gen4 motor swaps, and i believe njspeeder has been researching them as well

I think the biggest difference between gen III and gen IV is that you get drive by wire right away on gev IV and you dont necessarily on a gen III but it can be made to work. The only other real benefit of a difference is you could potentially get the cam phasing to work on the newer gen IV stuff. Is it worth it to change the wiring in your car? Thats up to you
If you want to upgrade by dropping a GM crate motor in your car you can get a signal adapter for make the 58X signal work with the 24X computer Link here and like someone else mentioned you may need to lengthen a harness wire

MonmouthCtyAntz · 06-03-2009, 07:37 AM

I think your putting the cart before the horse,being that your cars stock I was just start modding. The LS1 has plenty of power potential. If you get to the heads/cam part and feel that isnt enough then I would look into other options.

JL8Jeff · 06-03-2009, 08:31 AM

Don't forget that if you want to go twin turbo and Nx you're not only going to need a stronger motor setup, you're looking at the trans, rear, suspension, etc. that will all need upgrading very quickly. At that point the car is going to be so built up it won't be close to a stock 4th gen. You'd probably be better off looking for a car that already has a bunch of stuff changed and leave your car close to stock or sell it.

BigAls87Z28 · 06-03-2009, 11:02 AM

I would invest heavily into making the car better first. Full suspension redo, trans rebuild, everything. Then work on your engine building.

jims69camaro · 06-03-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

I would invest heavily into making the car better first. Full suspension redo, trans rebuild, everything. Then work on your engine building.

there is no better advice. like jeff said, you'd be better off finding a car that has already been beefed up and you can probably buy it cheap (considering all of the work that is already done to it, even if you get it at the going rate of 4th gens you'll be coming out ahead with the work already done to it). al's got the right idea in that you want the foundation of the car to be right before you get the speed goodies going full bore. that way, you know the car will be able to handle the power you're going to throw at it.

91chevywt · 06-03-2009, 07:50 PM

You should set a goal power wise or time wise at the drag strip and determine where you need to be from there. What you've got now can run great. If your serious about boost you're going to have to concentrate on a lot more than your long block.

Frosty · 06-04-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

I would invest heavily into making the car better first. Full suspension redo, trans rebuild, everything. Then work on your engine building.

Agreed 100%

NJ346 · 06-05-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJ Torque

A LS2 out of an GTO to swap into a Fbody, all you need to do is extent the cam sensor wire...

I've been looking into the swap myself, and it's not that simple. You need to relocate the knock sensors, change the reluctor wheel to a 24x, and a few other things. Also, I believe that early LS2's came with the 24x reluctor wheel so it would be a little easier.

Op- all the info you need to know can be found here: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/genera...02-f-body.html

There is a company out there that makes all the necessary adapters for the swap found here: http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...gory_Code=C162

NJ Torque · 06-05-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJNETSFAN

I've been looking into the swap myself, and it's not that simple. You need to relocate the knock sensors, change the reluctor wheel to a 24x, and a few other things. Also, I believe that early LS2's came with the 24x reluctor wheel so it would be a little easier.

Op- all the info you need to know can be found here: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/genera...02-f-body.html

There is a company out there that makes all the necessary adapters for the swap found here: http://www.lingenfelter.com/mm5/merc...gory_Code=C162

Oh... It was my understanding everything works from a LS2 GTO, but not a SSR or a vette...

NJ346 · 06-05-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJ Torque

Oh... It was my understanding everything works from a LS2 GTO, but not a SSR or a vette...

yea, it's still not that bad if you don't mind spending the money from lingenfelter on all the adapters...sure beats having to use a new harness. Also I believe the injectors need an adapter because they are a newer style than the ones the LS1 harness is wired for.

V · 06-09-2009, 10:44 AM

just get a procharger.... or sts system

ShowtimeSteeleLS1SS · 06-10-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JL8Jeff

Don't forget that if you want to go twin turbo and Nx you're not only going to need a stronger motor setup, you're looking at the trans, rear, suspension, etc. that will all need upgrading very quickly. At that point the car is going to be so built up it won't be close to a stock 4th gen. You'd probably be better off looking for a car that already has a bunch of stuff changed and leave your car close to stock or sell it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

I would invest heavily into making the car better first. Full suspension redo, trans rebuild, everything. Then work on your engine building.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jims69camaro

there is no better advice. like jeff said, you'd be better off finding a car that has already been beefed up and you can probably buy it cheap (considering all of the work that is already done to it, even if you get it at the going rate of 4th gens you'll be coming out ahead with the work already done to it). al's got the right idea in that you want the foundation of the car to be right before you get the speed goodies going full bore. that way, you know the car will be able to handle the power you're going to throw at it.

i agree i was not looking to do this overnight by no means at all , i was just figuring out if i wanted to keep this engine and start the multiple year project of madness lol

7pointoh · 06-12-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

I would invest heavily into making the car better first. Full suspension redo, trans rebuild, everything. Then work on your engine building.

I agree with Al on this. However, don't get a crate engine if you plan to do this. All your external parts bolts on just fine. You will have to tear down the engine to put the 24x reluctor wheel (or just buy a long block with that already installed). Cam sensor, knock sensor, and map sensor extension harness.

Having done it, it's not that much different from the gen III other than the displacement. It's mostly the same engine.