NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds - View Single Post - Getting my new 406 SBC installed, running, and driving

IROCZman15 · 05-08-2021, 02:31 PM

Great hanging out with you Jerry. You have an incredible wealth of knowledge and experience, so I hope to get to see ya more often. Jerry went runner-up in the gamblers race last night!

I might edit and add stuff to this post later on, but I'll try to get most of it out here now. First thing first, the intake manifold gasket repair held up just fine, no leaks, no loosened bolts, all good. Radiator still has a very slow drip, but Champion is waiting on a hopeful order/shipment from china to ship me out a new one under their lifetime warranty. I'll keep waiting. But the intake is good.

Got 8 runs in. most were garbage due to an issue I am very eager to resolve. Something is happening in Closed loop in ONLY first gear where the CL comp is adding a tremendous amount of fuel and causing the engine to stumble. Pass #2 was good and did not stumble, and after the 6th pass, I said to hell with it and trusted that my base tune was good enough for me to turn off closed loop fuel compensation and just run an open loop (base fuel table) pass. I was still hesitant and expecting it to bog so I was not at full WOT in first gear, but when it took it and didn't misfire, I went WOT and ran a full pass. It actually hit so hard it slightly spun the tires at the launch. Hot lapped it and did the same exact thing just to make sure it wasn't a fluke, and it did the exact same pass, but it spun the tires even more at the launch. So, good news, the base table is great (a little rich) but that means the closed loop compensation is way screwed up and only in first gear. - Details below

** also below, I might be considering getting an inexpensive set of front 90/10 drag struts to bolt on if I am going to be doing a drag race event. Unless I am missing something, Its only two bottom bolts, a top nut, and a brake line bracket to remove the strut. Something I can swap in 15 minutes while putting the drag wheels on or off. Reason I am considering this, is because if I am spinning the tires now at NA power on the open loop launch, there is no way a koni yellow strut will transfer the weight properly to the back on a nitrous launch. Even on the softest and loosest koni strut setting, you have to use 2 hands and your whole body to try to lift the front of the car up at all. With a 90/10 I've seen guys be able to bounce the car like a toy. So I am considering this, and would swap them off for street and autocross use of course.

Did not get any GoPro footage, didn't' have time to play around with it. Some of my dashcam videos are corrupt, so I only have recordings from 4 of the 8 passes, and I did not include any rear-camera video footage. Also, Did not remember to check the DA after the first 3 passes as I was so scatter-brained about what the heck was going on with the 1st gear fueling. The Da started around 800 and was pretty much down to 600 or so by the end of the night. It was humid and rain was expected. I kept the drag radials at 19.5 and 19 psi all night, and the shocks stayed at .05 out of 5 on the front koni struts, and 2.5 out of 5 on the rear koni shocks.

Pass 1: no video
4 second burnout. launch from idle at 878 rpm. converter flashed low at 2543 rpm and then the first bog/misfire of the night happened right around 3,000 rpm. see the jagged pink line in the graph, thats my actual AFR.The pink line should be super super close to the light blue line (target AFR). And the rising yellow line above it is CL comp, which is what the computer is adding to my base table to try to get the AFR to where my target (12.7:1) afr wants to be. CL comp added 56% !!!! before I got out of the throttle, pedaled it, and then revved 1st gear to 6,723, second gear to 6,524 and finished the run at 6,065. This "bog" in first gear has happened earlier this year at TnT . My buddy John was there with me and we looked at the tune file (GCF file) and can not make sense of why it would be adding THAT much fuel).

Pass 2 : no video5 second burnout. footbrake launch at 1,661 and flashed at 2,668 rpm. No bog! Shifted 1st at 6,461 and dropped to 4,803 shifted 2 at 6,532 and dropped to 4,853 and crossed the finish line at 6,128 in 3rd great. An optimal pass. felt good. full pass, no blips, bobbles, or issues. The pink line is very close to the light blue line, AFR was good, nothing weird. the yellow CL comp line had very low single-digit fuel compensation numbers. I was happy, and the 11.94 at 114 seemed promising because thats where this car has been happy before.

Pass 3: video with audio of the bog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryNndIXpspk

A 6 second burnout, and footbrake launch right at 1,598 rpm. After the converter flashed at 3,050 the CL comp (yellow) camein hard and added an INCREDIBLE amount of fuel... actually up to 76% additional of my base table for a total of 391 lbs/hour of fuel at that point. I shifted during this while getting out of the throttle, pedaled it, and got back into it for the rest of the run, even shifting 2nd very early at 5,691. Getting frustrated after this run. John and I were looking at the base table and CL comp limits and parameters, Nothing is activated that we can see that should require this much fuel compensation to be coming in at these rpms in 1st gear. Even in 2nd and 3rd gear, the table doesnt use this much fuel at these rpms.

Pass 4: video with audio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7hvy74ORNA

5 second burnout, launch at 1,769 and flash at 2,755 rpm. It actually spun the tires at the hit, you can see the car rotate sideways to the left as the tires are spinning just a touch. Yet, again, a "lean spike" and CL comp comes in hard, ramping up the fuel compensation into the 50%and60% value from my base table. I get off the throttle, back on it, shift and make another confused trot down the dragstrip. The yellow line should not be like that, no way, not at all.

Pass 5: video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_u0wmqzATA

5.5 second burnout. launch at 1,530 flash at 2,602. stumble, misfire, "overfueling", pedal it, abandoned the run.

Pass 6:
4 second burnout. 1,719 launch and I actually cant tell where the converter flashed on this log. same stumble, bog, CL comp way up, got out of it and abandoned the run.

*** Please don't think that I was just continually running the same tune trying on hopes and dreams that it would resolve itself... I was adding in fuel to the base table in the areas that it was CL comp adding, in hopes that it would be sufficient.* BUT there was no way I was going to add 60% more fuel to those areas. that number does not make sense. Again, I wasn't that dumb to just keep on running the same exact tune. Adjustments were made to the closed loop tunes in between runs.*

.

Got very frustrated, and John and I decided that If I am comfortable with my KNOWN good base table numbers (from al the track stuff last year) I can just make an open loop pass and turn the Closed Loop fuel compensation off, as well as the learn data. So basically, just fueling the engine off of the base table and the base table alone.

Pass 7:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmRynW_u-kw

(OPEN LOOP) 4.5 second burnout. Footbraked a little low at 1,210 and because of the recent bad launches, my foot was hesitant to go full wot. the light green line on the Datalog shows I was at 80%-84% throttle for all of fist gear, BUT THERE WAS NO STUMBLE OR BOG. I must have been so stunned, that I shifted way early, at 5,530 rpm. I then went to 110% wide open throttle and shifted 2-3 at 5,691 rpm (way early) and finished the run at 6,115 rpm. I was ecstatic, surprised, and impressed. I noticed the AFR numbers were a tad rich while I was making the pass (12.3:1) but I had NO time to make a change, because they were closing the lanes in 2 minutes.

Pass 8; (Open loop) Drove directly back into the staging lanes, and I think I was the very last car down the strip that night. launched at 1,862 rpm and a flash at 2,478 rpms. I was still hesitant to go FULL WOT in all of 1st gear and all of 2nd gear (green line). No bog in 1st gear at all. The base table is good, and open loop is good, no input from CL comp involved. Shifted 6,549 and 6,294 under about 87% throttle and then went WOT in 3rd gear.

Hungout with John a little bit more (he has a 3rd gen silver TA that was racing with me 3 weeks ago. Needs a clutch replacement. His car runs 11.0 and 11.1x Goal is 10.9 next time out. Lives in woodbridge, very cool guy. Put the car back into a known good closed-loop tune and drove home.

TOTALLY CRAZY INSANE LEARN TABLE NUMBERS?!?!

base table of the day:

[

any ideas what in the heck is going on in first gear with that HUGE fuel compensation?

Also, thoughts on a set of 90/10 front struts for drag days?

05-08-2021, 02:31 PM	#327
IROCZman15 10 Second Club / Meet Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Roxbury, NJ Posts: 2,101 iTrader: (8)	Great hanging out with you Jerry. You have an incredible wealth of knowledge and experience, so I hope to get to see ya more often. Jerry went runner-up in the gamblers race last night! I might edit and add stuff to this post later on, but I'll try to get most of it out here now. First thing first, the intake manifold gasket repair held up just fine, no leaks, no loosened bolts, all good. Radiator still has a very slow drip, but Champion is waiting on a hopeful order/shipment from china to ship me out a new one under their lifetime warranty. I'll keep waiting. But the intake is good. Got 8 runs in. most were garbage due to an issue I am very eager to resolve. Something is happening in Closed loop in ONLY first gear where the CL comp is adding a tremendous amount of fuel and causing the engine to stumble. Pass #2 was good and did not stumble, and after the 6th pass, I said to hell with it and trusted that my base tune was good enough for me to turn off closed loop fuel compensation and just run an open loop (base fuel table) pass. I was still hesitant and expecting it to bog so I was not at full WOT in first gear, but when it took it and didn't misfire, I went WOT and ran a full pass. It actually hit so hard it slightly spun the tires at the launch. Hot lapped it and did the same exact thing just to make sure it wasn't a fluke, and it did the exact same pass, but it spun the tires even more at the launch. So, good news, the base table is great (a little rich) but that means the closed loop compensation is way screwed up and only in first gear. - Details below also below, I might be considering getting an inexpensive set of front 90/10 drag struts to bolt on if I am going to be doing a drag race event. Unless I am missing something, Its only two bottom bolts, a top nut, and a brake line bracket to remove the strut. Something I can swap in 15 minutes while putting the drag wheels on or off. Reason I am considering this, is because if I am spinning the tires now at NA power on the open loop launch, there is no way a koni yellow strut will transfer the weight properly to the back on a nitrous launch. Even on the softest and loosest koni strut setting, you have to use 2 hands and your whole body to try to lift the front of the car up at all. With a 90/10 I've seen guys be able to bounce the car like a toy. So I am considering this, and would swap them off for street and autocross use of course. Did not get any GoPro footage, didn't' have time to play around with it. Some of my dashcam videos are corrupt, so I only have recordings from 4 of the 8 passes, and I did not include any rear-camera video footage. Also, Did not remember to check the DA after the first 3 passes as I was so scatter-brained about what the heck was going on with the 1st gear fueling. The Da started around 800 and was pretty much down to 600 or so by the end of the night. It was humid and rain was expected. I kept the drag radials at 19.5 and 19 psi all night, and the shocks stayed at .05 out of 5 on the front koni struts, and 2.5 out of 5 on the rear koni shocks. Pass 1: no video 4 second burnout. launch from idle at 878 rpm. converter flashed low at 2543 rpm and then the first bog/misfire of the night happened right around 3,000 rpm. see the jagged pink line in the graph, thats my actual AFR.The pink line should be super super close to the light blue line (target AFR). And the rising yellow line above it is CL comp, which is what the computer is adding to my base table to try to get the AFR to where my target (12.7:1) afr wants to be. CL comp added 56% !!!! before I got out of the throttle, pedaled it, and then revved 1st gear to 6,723, second gear to 6,524 and finished the run at 6,065. This "bog" in first gear has happened earlier this year at TnT . My buddy John was there with me and we looked at the tune file (GCF file) and can not make sense of why it would be adding THAT much fuel). Pass 2 : no video5 second burnout. footbrake launch at 1,661 and flashed at 2,668 rpm. No bog! Shifted 1st at 6,461 and dropped to 4,803 shifted 2 at 6,532 and dropped to 4,853 and crossed the finish line at 6,128 in 3rd great. An optimal pass. felt good. full pass, no blips, bobbles, or issues. The pink line is very close to the light blue line, AFR was good, nothing weird. the yellow CL comp line had very low single-digit fuel compensation numbers. I was happy, and the 11.94 at 114 seemed promising because thats where this car has been happy before. Pass 3: video with audio of the bog https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryNndIXpspk A 6 second burnout, and footbrake launch right at 1,598 rpm. After the converter flashed at 3,050 the CL comp (yellow) camein hard and added an INCREDIBLE amount of fuel... actually up to 76% additional of my base table for a total of 391 lbs/hour of fuel at that point. I shifted during this while getting out of the throttle, pedaled it, and got back into it for the rest of the run, even shifting 2nd very early at 5,691. Getting frustrated after this run. John and I were looking at the base table and CL comp limits and parameters, Nothing is activated that we can see that should require this much fuel compensation to be coming in at these rpms in 1st gear. Even in 2nd and 3rd gear, the table doesnt use this much fuel at these rpms. Pass 4: video with audio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7hvy74ORNA 5 second burnout, launch at 1,769 and flash at 2,755 rpm. It actually spun the tires at the hit, you can see the car rotate sideways to the left as the tires are spinning just a touch. Yet, again, a "lean spike" and CL comp comes in hard, ramping up the fuel compensation into the 50%and60% value from my base table. I get off the throttle, back on it, shift and make another confused trot down the dragstrip. The yellow line should not be like that, no way, not at all. Pass 5: video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_u0wmqzATA 5.5 second burnout. launch at 1,530 flash at 2,602. stumble, misfire, "overfueling", pedal it, abandoned the run. Pass 6: 4 second burnout. 1,719 launch and I actually cant tell where the converter flashed on this log. same stumble, bog, CL comp way up, got out of it and abandoned the run. * Please don't think that I was just continually running the same tune trying on hopes and dreams that it would resolve itself... I was adding in fuel to the base table in the areas that it was CL comp adding, in hopes that it would be sufficient.* BUT there was no way I was going to add 60% more fuel to those areas. that number does not make sense. Again, I wasn't that dumb to just keep on running the same exact tune. Adjustments were made to the closed loop tunes in between runs.* . Got very frustrated, and John and I decided that If I am comfortable with my KNOWN good base table numbers (from al the track stuff last year) I can just make an open loop pass and turn the Closed Loop fuel compensation off, as well as the learn data. So basically, just fueling the engine off of the base table and the base table alone. Pass 7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmRynW_u-kw (OPEN LOOP) 4.5 second burnout. Footbraked a little low at 1,210 and because of the recent bad launches, my foot was hesitant to go full wot. the light green line on the Datalog shows I was at 80%-84% throttle for all of fist gear, BUT THERE WAS NO STUMBLE OR BOG. I must have been so stunned, that I shifted way early, at 5,530 rpm. I then went to 110% wide open throttle and shifted 2-3 at 5,691 rpm (way early) and finished the run at 6,115 rpm. I was ecstatic, surprised, and impressed. I noticed the AFR numbers were a tad rich while I was making the pass (12.3:1) but I had NO time to make a change, because they were closing the lanes in 2 minutes. Pass 8; (Open loop) Drove directly back into the staging lanes, and I think I was the very last car down the strip that night. launched at 1,862 rpm and a flash at 2,478 rpms. I was still hesitant to go FULL WOT in all of 1st gear and all of 2nd gear (green line). No bog in 1st gear at all. The base table is good, and open loop is good, no input from CL comp involved. Shifted 6,549 and 6,294 under about 87% throttle and then went WOT in 3rd gear. Hungout with John a little bit more (he has a 3rd gen silver TA that was racing with me 3 weeks ago. Needs a clutch replacement. His car runs 11.0 and 11.1x Goal is 10.9 next time out. Lives in woodbridge, very cool guy. Put the car back into a known good closed-loop tune and drove home. TOTALLY CRAZY INSANE LEARN TABLE NUMBERS?!?! base table of the day: [ any ideas what in the heck is going on in first gear with that HUGE fuel compensation? Also, thoughts on a set of 90/10 front struts for drag days? __________________ 1987 IROC-Z - modified Last edited by IROCZman15; 05-08-2021 at 05:40 PM.