Getting my new 406 SBC installed, running, and driving

[grazi]

Message me if you go to island. I plan on going.

[IROCZman15]

ok, will do

ok, phew. it is NOT the rear main seal. there was oil higher up on the backside of the engine and some in the front trickling down by the manifold area.* I pulled the old PCV valve off my 305 TPi valve cover and rigged up a TEMPORARY PVC valve setup which T's into the brake booster line and then both go into the back of the sniper.* after wiping down the oil, I did a 20 minute test drive and came back and no smoking from the one remaining breather. pcv valve is sucking well, but the grommet is a little loose,and I do still want to test this setup more. but hopefully this will prevent positive crankcase issues causing the oil leaks up by the intake.* hopefully I don't have to re-seal anything?* my brakes are a little less grabby, as to be expected,* *this is a tradeoff for sharing the vacum port right?* any other options ?

Untitled by David Martin, on Flickr




while I was out for my test drive, the UPS guy came and dropped off the replacement (shorter) trans dipstick. while the engine cooled down I installed it.* My longer one is now up for sale. make an offer if you want it before I put it on ebay and the classifieds.*






I checked timing again. base timing at idle is 14-15 deg.* Help me out here if I am doing something wrong.* So, my Innova timing light is set at ZERO and I am reading 15 deg on the balancer. right? right.* Then i push the up button on the timing light till it gets to 38 deg, right? next I shoot the light at the balancer while revving up the engine to around 3,500 rpms.* I can't get a steady flashing reading, it just flashes all over.* *should I not be dialing the timing light up?* am I doing something wrong?

I also played around with the IAC and throttle position settings as per the manual and recommended by others. Had the car plenty warm, (see video) in neutral, and TPS sensor was at 0 deg. My IAC starts high and sometimes levels off lower, but later on it will become high again. I fiddles with the adjuster screw and got it to between 2-10 on the handheld display.* this made it run badly ,and in fact it would stall out whenever I would go to give it throttle...* engine stalls out/off in the video.* *during the test drive, if I stabbed the throttle, it wold buck and hesitate for a second, then wind up and go.* it was not doing this earlier today... it would just go.*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imz6jIJN-sU

[LTb1ow]

Did you do the TPS wizard after every TB ajustment?

[IROCZman15]

Of course not! I currently have no idea what I’m doing !!!
All I did was cycle the key or restart the car if the engine stalled (like in the video). The holley sniper manual says to just cycle the key to reset TPS. didn't see a wizard for it?

[WildBillyT]

You can try using the light not dialed up, but I think the issue may be your light with the MSD. I had a nice digital timing light I was using until I put on the MSD then I had to buy a basic non-adjustable one.

I think the issue stems from the multiple sparks and the light picking them up.

Just looked it up- INNOVA says none of their timing lights work with MSD ignitions.

[IROCZman15]

I was doing some research last night and I posted on third gen.org when I learned about my timing light not working with the multiple sparks. That was not fun to learn. So it looks like my brand new hardly used timing light will be going up for sale if anyone wants to buy it. I’ll be picking up an older style timing late today at my shop in Chatham and see if that will work with the multiple spark ignition. Once I can figure that out I think things will be better but it does suck to know that the new timing light I have will not work with the new msd ignition setup

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by IROCZman15

Of course not! I currently have no idea what I’m doing !!!
All I did was cycle the key or restart the car if the engine stalled (like in the video). The holley sniper manual says to just cycle the key to reset TPS. didn't see a wizard for it?

My bad, I keep making the bad assumption all holley products have similar software.

https://forums.holley.com/showthread...46-TPS-Autoset

"Once the engine is up to operating temperature, the idle speed can be set to what was configured in the Wizard.
To do this, open up the Initial Startup gauge screen that was used in section 17.0. With the vehicle in neutral,
adjust the idle screw until the IAC Position reads between 2 & 10%. While adjusting the idle speed screw, if the
TPS Position begins to read higher than 0%, cycling the ignition switch will recalibrate the TPS back to zero.
NOTE: Do not attempt to set the Target Idle Speed and IAC Position until the engine is above 160°F!"

[grazi]

I wonder if you have a vacuum leak. That would cause the iac being low, the stalling at idle, the off idle hesitation and the brakes feeling spongy (not having enough vacuum assist.) are all the vacuum ports used or plugged on the sniper?

[grazi]

I may be wrong but I don’t think you’ll want to share pcv and vacuum to your booster. The pcv May alllow too much free air into the sniper and act as a vacuum leak and not give enough assist to the booster.

[grazi]

Is the sniper controlling timing or do you have It disabled still?
Is the distributor advance locked out?

[IROCZman15]

all good points here. we may be on to something!

so yes, Matt, thats the same exact paragraph I keep reading and doing (and was what I was doing in that short youtube clip video). Thats the paragraph in my sniper quick-seput guide that myself and a neighbor were discussing and trying to dial in yesterday. I was adjusting the IAC to be between 2-10 and whenever I had it set right, it would stay there for a moment, and then fluctuate, usually higher. I would blip the throttle, and usually the motor would hesitate or stall out.

which might go along with what grazi is suggesting.. possibly with me now incorporating a PCV system, I may be introducing TOO MUCH vacuum after/below the sniper tbi unit. this is quite possible indeed.

what about if I kept the PCV valve in one valve cover, but ran it to one of the available 3/16" vac port on the sniper unit? so it wouldnt share a hose/port with the brake booster, and would still pull some positive crankcase ventilation, but instead of into a 3/8" port, it would be into a 3/16" diameter port.. basically cutting the vac pull in half? would the vacuum pressure be too much and suck the smaller hose closed? would it not be enough diameter to even do anything at all for crankcase ventilation?

didnt have a chance to work on the car today at all, will try a few things tomorrow. ... but again, the stumbling/hesitation/stalling ONLY began AFTER I incorporated the PCV valve.

and yes, the mechanical distributor MSD 85551 is still controlling the timing via the weights and springs. it is not locked out yet, and the sniper is not controlling timing yet. It will one day soon-ish, just currently is not setup that way.

[grazi]

Can you temporarily put a little air filter into the valve cover to see if it makes a difference?
Also, the sniper will probably need a little idle and drive time in learning mode to relearn every time your making changes to the iac/throttle blades/ tps settings.

[IROCZman15]

when you say, a little air filter into the valve cover.. do you mean a breather? thats what I initially was running, two open element style breathers, one per valve cover. they were beginning to show traces of oil and would give off a small waft of oil smoke at hot idle.

Thats why i popped in my old TPI's engine's PCV valve with the 3/8 hose. or did you mean something different. ?
this is what I have (different brand, no logo, but same style: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...8aAqkwEALw_wcB

I am going to work on the car later tonight and tomorrow to hopefully get it prepped as best as possible so that I can indeed head on over to Island Dragway on Sunday for test and tune.

[WildBillyT]

Maybe you can use a remote PCV breather with a catch tank?

[IROCZman15]

WBT, I thought about that too. Was talking to JoeyD about catch cans the other day also. I made some changes to the PCV system that I explain below. Tomorrow I will get to see how well it works.


* **I plan on spending most of the day tomorrow working on the tune, timing, pcv issues.*

I will be getting the base and advanced timing confirmed/set tomorrow. I have a second timing light that is an old craftsman type. My neighbor also has one, and if all else fails I will see if I can rent one from autozone real quick.* I am going to move the target hot idle rpms up from 850 to 950 and see what that does. I will also take time out to get he IAC and TPS dialed in.* I have most of the afternoon tomorrow to do all of this, as well as test drive it, and change spark plugs if needed.**


I will datalog, probably tomorrow while driving around town, and sunday as well. If I could rig up a way to have my GoPro video record my holley sniper display I will do that too.*


PCV update.* I decided to try another experiment. I still have one fresh air breather in the drivers side valve cover. I temporarily got rid of the T fitting which connected my PCV valve (pass valve cover) and my brake booster to the sniper baseplate.* *I now just have the brake booster going directly to the 3/8 vac port at the sniper.. like I initially did.* I then took a piece of 3/16" hard-walled plastic tube and connected it to my PCV valve and to one of the 3/16" vac ports at the sniper baseplate. Therefore it could still pull some crankcase ventialation, but just only about half as much as the 3/8" hose that was on it before (which remember, T'd with the brake booster). I am going to road test this tomorrow and see how it works. I was fortunate to have the hard walled tube, because I am sure a soft rubber tube would collapse. If the smaller sized pipe works well, i will clean up the install components and make it look nice, but for now it is just an experiment









My new replacement muffler arrived today.* The "rattle" I had coming from my muffler was an internal piece of pipe that broke off from inside the case. Got a new muffler at* a discounted rate from Hooker, with free shipping. Installed it today and cut open the case on the old one out of curiosity.* There was a good amount of water condensation inside it.* I am glad that I will not hear that piece of pipe rattling and rolling around anymore.*












again, tomorrow will be spent in the garage and on the road trying to get this car dialed in as much as possible. so any suggestions, tech advice, tuning advice.. please let me know.* *thanks* I will be posting an update and possibly some videos on this thread tomorrow night. maybe even some datalog info.*

[IROCZman15]

Short version:
-had fun
-nothing broke
-drove car to track, ran 6 passes, drove car home


Long version:

Got to Island Dragway today for their opening day of 2020, which was just a Test and Tune day. $45 entry fee and unloaded car. Went through tech with no problems. (the guy writing my number in white paint pen wrote it small, so the timing booth had trouble seeing it properly throughout the day, but I got timeslips for all 6 runs). Checked timing. base timing was set at 17 deg using the old timing light I had. When checking advance and total timing I revved the motor up above 3,500 rpms and saw it flickering right about 38 deg. Grazi arrived at the track around this time and we chatted about the car, the setup, and checked ignition timing. IT was nice to meet him and to talk car stuff. I checked the condition of my brand brand new plugs and looked at the "timing mark" on the ground strap. all appeared good. set front tire pressure at 35 psi and rear tire pressure at 28 psi. for all passes I only did a short dry burnout. I realized after my first run that it was easier for me to get the car around the water box by going to the far lane, so I stayed in the right lane for the rest of the day.


ALSO, I had no GoPro video camera today, left it at home by accident charging in the garage like an idiot. SO I had to use my old iPhone 4 mounted to a suction cup mount on my windshield for video; the mount is cheap and has a crack in it so it rattled, vibrated and shook around. sorry about that. The camera angle I pointed it at makes it looks like I stage the car crookedly, but I can assure you, I just had the bracket and camera pointed at an angle. Audio is not the best, as the iphone is in a lifeproof sealed case. Also, since Grazi was there, he filmed two videos from the spectator stands (run 3 and 4). I datalogged most of the runs. If anyone wants to help me by looking at some of the log files, please let me know. I would like to learn how to do this also.


Pass 1: 13.381 at 108.82mph
-had no idea what was going to happen with traction, so I just went for it. spun a bunch, started drifting to the side, but stayed in it, and got whopped by some exotic high end mercedes roadster thing. data-logged the pass
in car video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaCMfHIAvWI

Pass 2: 13.780 at 109.49 mph
- even more spin off of the launch datalogged the pass
- in car video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvgnz-24IOo

Pass 3: 12.590 at 112.07 mph (best e.t. and speed of the day)
-a bit less tire spin. stalled the engine up to about 2,000 rpms for the launch, got passed by a C7 Z06 corvette at the top end. no datalog this time
- in car video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DHFlJ_y9ZQ
- other video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr0MnXEZF-g*

Pass 4: 13.039 at 111.50 mph
- went red, some spin, datalogged
- in car video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhjfQXa4GPo
- other video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5YDCDizidk

Pass 5: 13.164 at 108.34 mph
- about the same routine. datalogged
- in car video:*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyFrw7aEn7g

Pass 6: 12.883 at 109.13 (best 60ft of the day 1.93)
- was next to the silver 4th gen camaro for this pass. ( and man, I really wanted another 12 second slip so that my 3rd run wasn't the only 12 second run), and the timing booth had difficulty reading my small white car#'s so I had to have them reissue me a hand-written slip since the girl at the finish line booth didn't have a slip matching my car number! I did afterwards hangout with the 4th gen driver and he let me take a photo of our slip. Actually, if he wasn't way late on the tree, we would have had a really tight race actually (see slip photo below) datalogged
- in car video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewCfozqudWQ



So, remember about a week ago when I wrote that long post (on this particular thread) about how the car felt like a high 12 second car, well, yea. it did, and still does, because it is ! I have talked to a multitude of people in the last week and I know there is more in the car/engine, but I am not skilled enough to find out how to unlock it.* I don't know anything about tuning, BUT I AM WILLING TO LEARN so I can maybe get this car more dialed in. Aside from a set of sticky rear tires, I would love to get it either tuned by a pro, or find a way to comprehend the tuning software/parameters with some help from a knowledgeable person.* my goal for the car in street-car N/A form is an 11.999 at around 120 mph. After that, I will put the nitrous bottle in it and install the rest of the wet-plate system with a 150-200 shot.*

The only problem area I noticed today was that many times if the car is at idle and I go to wack the throttle it almost half hesitates or stumbles for a half a second, and then it catches itself and revvs up. Again, tuning, I'm sure will show this and hopefully can remedy this.

My goal for today was of course not to break anything, to have fun, and to run under 12.50. I came close, but just a bit short. All in all, a great day. After 6 passes, street drove the car home, emptied the gear, chatted with neighbors about it, and gave it a wash. Uploaded photos and videos and will do datalogs tomorrow.



*Happy to have the car working this well at this point in early March, after only removing the old engine early January, putting the new engine in early February, and full blown rewiring, painting, bodywork, cooling system, trans, converter, and so on over the past two months of 2020.* You guys here on the board have been a huge help to me during this process, so thank you; and keep the advice coming !



full photo album can be found on my Flickr account page, but here are some photos from the day:

[IROCZman15]

two areas I need advice with:

tuning: if peopel know a local place I can stop by at and learn as the tuner looks at my combination and builds a tune. also, should I keep the distributor controlling ignition timing advance or start my research into how to lock out the distributor and let the sniper unit control ignition timing?


tires:
A good set of drag radials would be great for getting my 60ft down lower, absolutely. I have had a few conversations with people who might let me borrow a set of wheels ro use their old tires. OR I am considering using the small amount of my car-budget $ to buy a set of tires to put on my old 16"x"8 iroc wheels. currently, I do not have $ to buy a set of rear wheels and tires.. no matter how cheap they are... when it is actually time for me to buy MY drag wheels, I am not just going to want something cheap, I will want something that also looks nice on the car.. so that will be expensive. But perhaps for now, for just a short while... I can get away with buying some sticky tires for the 16" iroc wheels I already own. ?? I have been told drag radials for auto cars and slicks for stick cars. ??

if slicks would be fine for my setup, Hoosier makes a 28x10-16 Bias Ply slick ?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hoo-18153

or if I should go with drag radials... MT ET streets ?
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mtt-3460

[TaKid455]

Heard you guys from the house. Great weekend for an opening day. Congrats on the no break day.

If you send me the datalogs, I'll take a peak at them and see if anything seems out of place.

[IROCZman15]

Awesome. Thanks larry. I guess the best way for me to send them to you is via email, do you want to send me a PM with your email address in it ?

[LS1ow]

ahhh crap, i was going to head up to island but worked on the car instead. This local kid that wants to race me was up there running no time(black turbo 2013/14 Cali special Mustang)

They arent the best tires, and idk if they will even fit, but i have a set of ZR1 wheels with Toyo DRs for sale in the classifieds. They are practically new. Im not sure how far you are from me but if you want to give them a go and see how they do, come and get em.

[IROCZman15]

Yea man. I think I saw that mustang there. Cool

I remember seeing you selling the wheels/tires on here but I don’t think the backspacing will work my 12 bolt has the stock measurements for the rear wheel backspacing/offset. Aren’t those wheels you have pushed outboard ?

[IROCZman15]

Took out some time and converted the ignition timing control duties over to the Holley Sniper ECU. Removed the brand new MSD 85551 distributor from the brand new engine and took out the weights, springs, and locked-out the timing. Also installed the adjustable rotor, MSD 84211 and got it setup. While following along with the Holley efi youtube video tutorial, I was able to set the timing on the engine balancer. Made the appropriate wiring changes and also changed everything that I needed to in the sniper handheld, which changes the GCF file in the ECU. Fired the car up and it ran rough at first but slowly the computer began to do its thing.














Then used the "static timing" feature on the sniper handheld to check static idle timing. it was good at 20*. used the static timing feature again to check the timing at higher rpm's and I noticed that it was retarding a few degrees, so I had learned to get this corrected by adding a few miliseconds into the inductive delay. After a few series of adjustments I settled on 130au (130 miliseconds) and that worked very well. took the car out for a good 20 minute drive and at first it was a bit jittery. during the drive the computer was learning and by the end of the drive it was much improved. Also took the car out again today for about 45 mins and again, everything is improving. It has a long way to go (to learn) but that's its job.





I am going to be working with a tuner via the internet who is pretty reputable. Mad Science Motorsports https://mad-sciencemotorsports.com/ I sent him a bunch of engine info and car info already and he will be creating a base tune ( GCF - global configuration file) for me in the next few days. It can be used as a separate tune from what the sniper ecu is learning now on its own. he/we can also create many different other tunes and revise them as many times as we need to (like a higher octane fuel tune, or e85, or several nitrous tunes). They will be stored on the SD card and I can just pick which one I want with a few taps on the handheld. Pretty Cool ! I sold a bunch of car parts online recently and made enough money to afford this investment. Basically it only cost $300 and tuning services last for life, so anything I do or change I(we) can rework the tunes accordingly. he can even remotely tune via laptop if I have my car on a dyno for testing, which I do plan to get this car on a dyno locally one day.


here is it running while sniper ecu is now controlling timing.... just a few minutes after I finished the conversion, getting the engine temp up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rPreVuJa14




I have been spending some time diving into the Sniper EFI software program and looking at my datalogs. It is new and exciting to be able to see all this stuff, and I know I am barely scratching the surface of what is able to be logged and adjusted.




Also, took a few hours and cleaned up/sanded/painted my OEM original old rear IROC-Z wheels. Its not a flawless job, but they were in pretty rough shape from being unused for the past 17 years. I didn't go crazy with the level of detail since the plan is to use them for non-show purposes. Bought the Mickey Thompson ET Streets that I was discussing above and they will be mounted on these iroc wheels one day soon. I have missed having these wheels on the car so it's pretty cool to bring them back to life.






















Couldn't make it to Island Dragway today for T&T, but perhaps next week if they are open. By then, I hope to have several revisions of the new tune and the drag radials on.

[IROCZman15]

So, not too much recently. with the race track shut down and roads "closed" the car sat for a few days. I did wash it and give it a polish/wax job too.


Got the drag radials mounted up and bolted onto the car. I took them out for a short "scuff" to break them in a little bit. they had no problem hooking up on the street at a moderate 3/4 launch. that made me happy.










two MINOR issues I am trying to sort out (since all the big stuff is done)

1. I had been trouble-shooting the PCV system for a while now and I think I have come up with the best solution. I have a single breather in one valve cover and a (oem gm tpi 305 replacement) spec one in my othe valve cover. I ran a -6 PTFE line (3/8" diameter, with black shielding over the braided wire) to a T fitting where it splits into TWO very short 3/16" lines and then both go into the two available 3/16 vac ports in the sniper. the 3/8" vac port in the sniper is occupied by my brake booster. SO far this combination has been the best one yet. and I am not experiencing any crankcase oil leaks or mist form the breather. I had been doing all this without a vacuum gauge, and I finally was able to get my hands on one. At idle, I am only getting a reading of about 8 on the vac gauge. My brakes work really good (99% of the time I dont feel any power brake loss), and pcv seems to work. So I am happy with that. For my cam/engine combination/ and needing no other vacuum related accessories, does 8 seem like a good value? I am inexperienced in this area, so I figured I would ask here. I am really trying to avoid installing any type of ugly vacuum pump or additional accessories, so if I am good where I am at.. that issue is settled.



















2. TCC lockup:
My trans was built by ProBuilt Automatics a few years ago and is the top level (pro street elite). TCC lockup was present in 2nd 4rd and 4th and I discussed this with Dana and apparently this feature is ok, but I decided to bypass it by putting in an in-line toggle switch to CUT power to the TCC lockup when the switch is inactive, and to send power to the TCC and lock it up while cruising on the highway. I LIKE IT THIS WAY. I like being able to just flip the switch while on the highway and activate the lockup; and then to flip the switch again (or presss the brakes) and turn off lockup. Again, I like it this way. I am very un-interested in a self-contained automatically controlled lockup kit . I am aware that I can get one of those and then also use a toggle switch to control lockup, but its not what I want.
I am at the point this year where I am just wanting to drive the car and be done with the projects and work. Thats what I do in wintertime. Therefore I am not interested in dropping down the trans pan, installing a wiring kit and pressure switches, and then a relay, etc. No thanks; not now.

So, Since my transmission/lockup/TCC system worked the way I described it above, when the old 305 and the TPI ecm was in the car, that was good. now the ecm and 305 are removed. Holley sniper can not control TCC lockup. I want to use my switch. plain and simple. I bought a new pigtail (mine was cracked and missing the locking tab) for $9 on ebay. Did a lot of research online on many different websites. Looked at my shop manual schematics too. Since my setup can/had been locking up in 2nd,3rd, and 4th when activated, I figured it should still work this way, even with no ECM. (how did the tcc lockup not use a relay before, but now the aftermarket kits use relays) why stock no realy.. , jsut power from fuse panel??) so I took the new pigtail and connected it's purple wire (pin A) to the purple wire coming from my brake switch (and prior to that the <- toggle switch <-the fuse box <- power) Did NOT connect the green or tan wires since they both used to go to the oem ecm. *I have no use of the ALDL anymore and no SES light because no ECM, so that would eliminate the need for the TAN wire right??* *leaving the green wire to do....?
Did a test drive but sadly, no lockup.
****So im thinking I have to do something with one or both of the wires (tan and green) Unsure if they need to be grounded, spliced together, etc.
This is not the typical TCC lockup question, and I did search the internet, but came to no straightforward answer. I know an easy answer is to build/buy/fab up a whole relay kit and all that... but I see NO reason why I can't make MY unusual TCC configuration work with the 3 wires configured properly. I just dont know how to do the configuration. The TCC worked fine without a relay and different wiring before. shouldnt need much now to make it work. Just something to do with the tan wire and the green wire? but what?

thoughts?














otherwise, the car is good. I am waiting on the second revision of my GCF tune from teh tuner to be emailed to me. Car runs good, but he likes to do 5-6 revisions of the tune before I go heavy WOT









another thing I got to think about is somehow trying to get a knock sensor and knock warning indicator system into the car. like many gen 1 sbc setups, I have no knock sensor. I would like one.





pretend 5" side exit exhaust (just a joke photo)

[grazi]

8” of mercury vacuum is super low Unless your running a really redical cam. Do you know the lobe seperation angle of your cam? Sure you don’t have a vacuum leak?

[IROCZman15]

yea, lobe separation is 110.0 deg
gross lift is .600 .600
duration at .050 is 245 and 245

I checked all around for vac leaks. my hoses are tight, the base-plate of the sniper is tight. I checked where you said to check about the bolt holes that mount the sniper to the manifold. etc. sprayed starting fluid at the vac line connections and so forth. did it again today at 6:30 pm . no evidence of leaks at the manifold to engine surfaces either.. thoguths? ideas?





been re-reading these threads abotu the lockup situation.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tran...ch-lockup.html
and
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/carb...c-control.html




.