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Old 04-07-2021, 05:18 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by IROCZman15 View Post
yea man, I fully agree with ya on that. Ain't nothing I can do to change that. Certainly not going to be opening up the transmission and changing its gearing. car and gearing is now fantastic when driving on the street and i can tell its going to be better for autoX too. Trans is happy and healthy so its staying as is. Converter is also staying the same since a tight converter like this one will be very happy with the nitrous system install this summer/fall.

I gotta dig in and find whats not optimized to let these gears launch the car harder.
Its optimized for nitrous.

Give it nitrous.
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Old 04-07-2021, 05:47 PM   #302
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Yeah was wondering if they were nsa. If valve train can handle the revs, give it some more!
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Old 04-07-2021, 07:49 PM   #303
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nitrous is coming this year, probably in the summer, maybe right after I do the UMI autocross event. I have most of what I need to get it setup for the 100-150 shot. I have the solenoids, bottle, buttons, and some braided lines. Just need to find a single stage intake spray plate that I like, get some fittings, and get creative with a slick way to mount the solenoids. I have been holding off on the nitrous until I hit my personal goal for the car, which is 11.499. I renewed my nitrous permit with NJ this Feburary, so nitrous is indeed coming.

I can give it another 100-200 rpms on the shifts too at the next test and tune. Was hoping the gears would bring a quicker 60 foot, anything in the 1.55 range would be awesome.

Adam, do you mean nsa or N/a ? if you mean N/a, then yes, they were. if nsa, well I don't know what that means.

also, yup, thats the cam specs and valvetrain stuff. as mentioned, specs are on page 1 of this thread in the build sheet. so some of that stuff is beyond my knowledge, which is why I ask for advice from those who do know. thanks, keep it coming!

I am hoping to maybe get out to island next Friday night for a TnT event. If there is anything I can/should do in the meantime, I gotta get a gameplan going! If I do hit the 11.49 I am getting the roll bar setup. I emailed the fabricator and he is still on board to get the project done according to my specs.
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Old 04-08-2021, 08:28 AM   #304
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Non self-aligning vs. self aligning refers to the valvetrain.
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Old 04-08-2021, 06:49 PM   #305
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You are gonna need to get it on slicks and leave at as much RPM as the 2step can get you without pushing forward if you want to cut a sub 1.5

What made you pick the current 2step rpm?
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Old 04-08-2021, 08:50 PM   #306
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thanks nick. I actually do not know if the rockers/valvetrain is self aligning or not? never looked into it

I picked the 2-step rpm based on where I could get the car to hold the foot brake at last year prior to it rolling through the staging beams. This was the whole discussion about vacuum pumps, tanks, launching from an idle vs high idle vs anything higher. Lots of discussion about this last year on here and on other car forums. If I am in 1st gear and rev over 1800-2,000 the footbrake can't hold the car back. It rolls the beams, so I then just take the red light and make a pass. I played around with this for dozens and dozens of passes last year. And I was foot braking while revving to try to hold a set rpm while watching the tree count down, and I thought a 2-step rev limiter would allow me to just floor the throttle while on the rev limiter so i didn't have to try to watch the tach hold 1,800 while watching the tree. that was my thought process. what can I change? I mean, I can set the 2-step to freaking 6,000 if I wanted to, but its just going to roll through the brakes at 2,000 rpms like usual. (no to a transbrake)
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Old 04-09-2021, 03:48 AM   #307
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They are nsa, it says on the site.
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Old 04-16-2021, 07:53 PM   #308
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Island dragway got rained out tonight, understandable. I was half packed and checked the phone message to find out it as canceled.

heading to the car show portion of the Swap meet at Englishtown tomorrow. Then i'll come home, and transform the car over to drag race mode, and head over to Island Dragway for Sunday test and tune. Hope all goes well. If anyone else is heading to either racetrack, keep an eye out for me and say hi.
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Old 04-22-2021, 08:28 PM   #309
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I know, I know, nobody reads this junk anyways.. but it is a good way for me to keep all my stuff in one place to look back at and on the oddball chance that people can help out with what I am experimenting with, I still decide to post the details of my adventures.

Did get to Englishtown for the Swap-Meet/Car-Show event on Saturday. Rained when I was leaving, but that wasn't a problem. The crazy maniacs on the parkway and roads were insane. Even at 9 am on a Saturday, the trip was treacherous; those drivers scare me.





Had a good time at the show, met a ton of cool people and spent most of the day chatting tech with people. It was strange to see a boat dry-docked on the grass by where the 1000' cone used to be at the dragstrip. I walked through a portion of the swap meet and chatted with a fellow O.G. njfboa member but I didn't spend too much time browsing for parts.











Ended up very confused/surprised when they called my name for Top 5 of the whole show. I was hoping for mayyyybe top 25, but did not expect a Top 5 award. Pretty cool, they took my photo by the back wall and put it up on their website. The blue hot rod won best of show.










Drove the car home and pulled off the wheels, removed the passenger seat, sound system, nitrous, so that I could pack my usual supply of tools, parts, and equipment for tomorrows dragstrip day.
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Old 04-22-2021, 09:05 PM   #310
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As for my birthday day at the dragstrip, well, I wish it could have gone better. I got there early like I always do and a handful of people I know were there also. My buddy John and his silver Trans Am came also, and he usually runs 11.1-11.2 range at 126 mph. He knew his clutch was on its last day, so he was easy with the car at first. I think he ran a best mph of 128 and his best 60 foot was 1.48 but I forget if he ran a best e.t. timeslip. He runs a 436 sbc N/A setup but with a 6 speed out of a dodge viper.

Anyways, the suspension stayed the same all day: front struts at 0.5 out of 5, and rear shocks were at 2.5 out of 5. Front skinnies were at 37 psi all day and the rear drag radials at 19 and 19.5 psi. Used 93 octane shell pump gas for pass 1&2, but added 1/2 can of VP Octanium (lead free) for pass 3&4. So my WOT timing for pass 1&2 was 35.0 deg and for pass 3&4 I raised the timing to 37 deg. The weather was ok, but the DA was about 1,000 all day. As was the case last time, there were a LOT of oil downs, cleanups, people who walked away from their cars in the staging lanes and backlogged the whole flow, and in general the track just moved very slow. Sadly, I only got 4 passes.











Pass 1:

Did a 5 second mid rpm burnout. I tried a 1,800 rpm 2-step launch and left at 1,849 rpm. I had done some street tuning of the 2-step to try to get the fuel table dialed in for a 2-step launch. The brakes held, but the car bogged but only a little bit. AFR went lean 19.7 and then rich 9.6. Once it recovered, the rest of the run was pretty good. As we discussed in some previous posts, I raised the rev limiter and shifted a bit higher than normal. Shifted 1-2 at 6,648 and it dropped to 4,838 in 2nd gear. Shifted 2-3 at 6,552 and it dropped to 4,868 rpm. Crossed the line right around 6,236 rpm. ET was slow, but my MPH was the fastest ever for me, at 116.59 mph.

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g2Q6T_apwI

Timeslip:

something is wrong with their clock, but only before 12 noon. This pass was actually at 11:40 am but the rest of my timeslips are accurate regarding the time of day. This is also the case with my track day 2 weeks ago. Weird.

Datalog:

-you can see the wild pink AFR right at my launch, and the bump in the red rpm trace prior to the engine recovering and running normally.





Pass 2:
Used the exact same tune file. Did a 8 second burnout and decided to foot brake the launch since the last run's 2-step launch went poorly. Launched at 1,769 rpm and then the engine bogged pretty bad...almost felt like I lost the transmission. So i got out of the throttle right away. Got on the throttle a little bit while coasting down the track looking behind me to see if I needed to pull off to the side. With everything intact and no smoke, I drove down the track and back to the pits. Looked over a few things and the datalog and could only determine that I needed to change the tune file. No real info to be gained from the datalog (as far as I can see??) but I drove the pits a bit to see if 1st gear and trans felt good, and it did, so I got back in the lanes.


Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DarbKRbvFg (that chevelle went a 8.91 !)

Timeslip:


Datalog:




Pass 3: Put in a fresh tune and one that I had made for the VP Octanium octane booster. Supposedly, it is an actual non-gimmick octane booster that raises octane by several numbers, not by points of a number. I put in half a can and put my WOT timing table to 37 deg. I would like yo do more research on this topic, but feel free to comment. Did a 5 second burnout. Footbraked the launch at 1,840 rpm which is right around the brake systems limit. Since I had just experienced two bogged launches I was expecting a 3rd so I was hesitant to go full WOT. You can see the upper green TPS line in the datalog, I did not get to wide open throttle until i got into 3rd gear. However I did shift 1-2 at 6,433 and it dropped to 4,713 rpm, and shifted 2-3 at 6,604 and it dropped to 4,825. Crossed the line around 6,082 rpm.

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmhvxZ7t0T4


Timeslip:


Datalog:




Pass 4:
A bit frustrated, i just wanted a good clean full throttle pass knowing that the track day was ending and there were just so many track cleanups I was not going to get the 6 passes I had hoped for. Used the same exact tune file as pass 3, including the 37 deg of timing with the VP octane booster. Did a 6 second burnout and footbraked the launch at 1,450 rpm. Car hooked to a normal 1.67 sixty foot and the converter flashed around 2,720 (little lower than usual now). Shifted 1-2 a bit higher than I ever had at 6,763 and it dropped to 4,868 rpm...it actually tagged my new 6,800 rpm rev-limiter just a bit too. Shifted 2-3 at 6,605 and it dropped to 4,861. Went through the finish line around 6,203 rpm. Finally a good pass and with higher rpm shift points. Disappointed that it only resulted in a 12.005 at 114.09 mph.

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86Lb3GX_JTY
-If I had run my normal 11.80-11.85 I would have had a real cool side-by-side pass with that 2nd gen camaro! Even though I went 0.022 red, it would have been real cool side-by-side action. I actually started gaining a little back in the last few hundred feet.


Timeslip:



Datalog:





Log book:



Sidenote: I put the Go Pro on the drivers side to see how much the rear end is squatting on the launch. I tried it on the passenger side, but it fell off in the staging lanes 3 times when the car was just sitting there doing nothing. I'll get it to stick better next time, but in each above video is some footage of the rear squat.. This photo would have been from pass #1 or 2 when I was in the left lane:




Anyways. That's that. I hope to go back in early May for a Friday night TnT. An 11.7x at 117 mph would really thrill me . I also plan on moving ahead with the 6-point roll bar project in late May.
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Old 04-23-2021, 03:49 AM   #311
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Always enjoy the updates, Dave.
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Old 04-23-2021, 05:43 AM   #312
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For what its worth, in termy x world, you can't tune the 2 step, its a modifier that turns off the learning for the main fuel table when activated. Unless you make a custom table for two step, but I do not think thats what you are doing?

Looks like your converter likes to foot brake leave, you cut your best short times doing that. Now you just gotta get it to move better mid track.

I would stop playing with WOT timing, find what it likes by reading plugs at end of track, or seeing where it stops gaining MPH. Then leave it. (Granted I am coming from a boosted mindset, so idk if NA guys chase timing based on weather?)

Either way, cool to read the updates
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Old 04-23-2021, 12:42 PM   #313
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I'm glad you tried upping your shift point, too bad about those lean spikes. Any ideas on what could be causing it?
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Old 04-23-2021, 08:37 PM   #314
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Matt you are correct, I do not have the capability to make a separate 2-step table. What I have been trying to do is make a set "drag race' tune file that has the best VE table and timing table values in the area of cells where the 2-step comes off and closed loop comes in. Since this area of rpm/load will only be hit once during a full 1/4 mile pass, people have suggested I spend time tuning that area to eliminate the bog/spikes. It has been suggested that I do some street tuning using the 2-step on a steep upward hill or while holding the brakes during a launch. I did try this and thought I had it close, but apparently not. Oh well, something to revisit later on. I am fine with footbraking, and the free-rev I give the engine while in neutral while pulling to the starting line is helping build vacuum in the vac can and I am happy about that at the launch while footbraking.

As for WOT timing, I might try one more experiment with it, and this time I might actually lower it from 35 deg to 34 deg or 33.5. I have not played around with those numbers yet and some of my SBC buddies with similar setups run 33 and 34 deg timing. Maybe I have been over timing it just a tad; enough to knock off some power, but not enough to knock and cause noticeable detonation. Maybe I can get to the track next friday night for T&T.

As for the shift points, yup, I did give it a shot. A few of the shifts I nailed, right at 6,604 rpm and 6,605 rpms. I had another thread on this site listing my best runs and tech info, but here is the current sheet. I am liking the 116.59 mph, but thats weird because thats the first run where the engine bogged off the 2-step and then got going again, so it wasn't even a full pass.







As for hte lean spikes, as far as I can tell it is the computer coming out of a 2-step open loop table and then going closed loop with unburnt fuel in the exhaust, causing the oxygen sensor readings to get wonky. At least thats how I understand it. So, in theory, if I made a pass only in open loop, this would not happen. But then I run the risk of my CL comp and fueling being too far lean/rich if my base table is off... so I am hesitant to do that and make a mistake.
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Old 04-24-2021, 06:38 AM   #315
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Congrats on the trophy. Well deserved. Happy birthday as well and nice to see you made it out to the track. I think it's time to engage the nitrous!
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Old 04-24-2021, 07:12 PM   #316
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Thanks man!
nitrous setup is coming late summer.
After another month timeframe of drag racing (and upcoming roll-bar install) I want to get the new tires on the car (the new falken Azeni RT 660) so I can get the car back autocrossing a bit before the UMI autocross event in July. I also have a few car shows I kinda want to get to, so I might switch back to autocross/car show mode for a bit. After the UMI event, if my budget is there, the nitrous system will get done. I have most of the stuff, just need a nice plate, and fuel lines with fittings, as well as a fuel pressure safety switch, and to fill the bottle. I plan on using my same solenoids from the TPI kit which flow up to a 150 shot I think. Since the roll bar will be installed, I won't have to worry about getting kicked out for running in the high 10's (hopefully). So potentially, this upcoming Friday night TnT at island might be the last drag race event for a little bit.
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Old 05-01-2021, 08:54 PM   #317
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The adventure twists and turns! This one is not fun to type, but it is part of the reality and the journey.






So I planned on going to Island on Friday night for Test and Tune; had the car setup with the drag wheels on and loaded with gear but was watching the weather because there was intermittent and but high winds during the day. Turns out that Island canceled TnT Friday night, and that made sense because the weather was indeed lousy. So my weekend plans changed and I decided I would go to a car show with some buddies in Sparta. Just had to switch the wheels and unload the gear and put the sound system and passenger seat in. Since that was easy, I decided that I would finally tackle a small task that I had wanted to do this winter:


I have not been a fan of the Holley Coolant Temp Sensor being mounted front-and-center in the top of the intake manifold. To me it is unsightly and also, it reads the temp of the coolant just before it exists the engine/thermostat. Figured it would be more helpful to know the coolant temp in the cylinder head instead. So, the holley sensor is hard wired to the sniper unit, but MANY people relocate it by simply cutting the wire open and splicing in wires to extend it. Simple. Easy. No sweat at all. In doing so, I had to drain some Evans Coolant out,and I guess more spilled than I planned on. I was able to save some, but not much..

see the location of the sensor, like a weird totem-pole; no thanks


sensor moved, but pipe plug not installed during this photo, because this is where I added the remaining coolant into the engine. I put in two new and matching pipe plugs on each side of the thermostat housing.





So I moved the sensor after extending the wires. Easy. Fired up the car and was adding back the salvaged Evans coolant, as well as 1/2 gallon of Evans that I had remaining on my shelf. Sadly it was not enough to get everything filled, but I fired up the engine anyways and left it get up to temp. Temp climbed pretty quick and I knew the sensor was going to read higher, but it got real hot real quick, rocketing up to 230 and I shut it off. Its 8:30pm now on Friday night, and no local sores carry Evans. I also notice that the pesky SLOW and minimal drip that I have noticed under the car during the past few months is back, and is now steadily dripping coolant. My heart sinks, as I realize that I have made the slow leak now become worse.

Woke up early and drove my truck over to Power Portal Automotive in Hackettstown where they sell Evans. Got there 8am before anyone who works there arrived and bought 2 gallons. Drove home expecting to be able to put the coolant in, burp the system and see how bad the leak is....and if its not bad I was going to drive up to the car show in Sparta. Turns out the leak is even worse than last night, so I bag the car show idea, pull the car back in the garage, start cleaning up the the mess in the driveway and figuring out where the leak at the back of the engine is coming from. Soon I realize that it is fortunately NOT a head gasket...but its the back of the intake manifold. It is not going to fix itself, so I start digging in and disassembling everything. My thoughts were confirmed that the intake manifold gasket much have been very slightly breached before, and the events of Friday night probably opened the gasket's hole up even more. It is at the back of the engine, on top of cylinder 7. FYI, I know that I committed the cardinal sin of intake manifold removal when I used a screwdriver to separate it from the heads. As I was doing it, I knew I should not be doing it, but I was just so damn frustrated at that point in time). I will shave the divots and make sure the new gaskets seal nicely.















Very thankful it is not a head gasket. Just to be sure, I checked and torqued the head bolts that I could reach with the valve cover off, and along the bottom rail.





So, I gotta get gaskets for my Edelbrock Victor Jr. manifold. From my research it looks like Edelbrock #7201 or Fel-Pro 1206 or Fel-Pro 1205 gaskets. I plan on using a bead of black RTV on the front and rear china walls. Right? or what else?

The cooling passage dead ends here at the intake manifold. it does not cross flow, Anything you suggest I do to prevent this from happening again? Evans coolant runs at a very low pressure but I don't want to have to deal with this again.






Torque to 25 foot pounds in the proper order/sequence.






While I am in here, I am going to re-do some wiring and tighten things up to be even cleaner. I MIGHT take the time to drill and tap a hole in the actual manifold to thread in a NPT fitting that will allow me to run my PCV vacuum hose to this port, instead of the very tiny vac port of the sniper unit. Thoughts? I've seen it done before, and it will clean up my vacuum hoses at the back of the engine. Perhaps it can even be capped later if I do get an electric vacuum pump, OR I can run a semi-permanent vacuum gauge to this port if needed. Thoughts on sizes or if this could be a problem? I do know its common to do.

I am also going to relocate the huge oil pressure sender unit because I have never liked where it has been located near the firewall. Its bulky and in the way of wiring and will be in the way of how I route my nitrous lines/solenoids later on. So I want to move it to the oil pressure port that is directly above the oil filter on this Dart SHP block. This is the same port that I have used to check/verify my high oil pressure issues in the past. The tester gauge has always read exactly the same as my dashboard gauge, so I know that if I move the sender to this blocks lower port, it will read correctly. Any thoughts or advice before I do this?


So yea, exciting, but unplanned. The leak was not going to get better on its own, so its better it happened here in my driveway instead of when I was possibly real far from home out at an event.
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Old 05-02-2021, 03:14 AM   #318
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Oh the joys of a project car haha. Fresh gaskets and nice bead of rtv should do the job. Things like this just happen so I wouldn't get overly concerned.

As for the vacuum port, nothing wrong with doing what you proposed. 3/8" or 6an will be fine if using it to pull through a catch can with check valve.

The port above the oil filter will also work just fine for oil pressure reading.
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Old 05-02-2021, 08:25 PM   #319
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haha yup. quite a curveball that spiraled a bit further than I expected too!

Did not have time today to work on the car, but did learn that Advanced AutoParts in Rockaway had 1 set of the intake manifold gaskets, so I went there this morning and picked them up along with the Permatex Right-Stuff gasket maker, and two different sized brass NPT fittings.

Possibly after work tomorrow I will get everything cleaned up and maybe get some parts reinstalled. I am happy about relocating the oil pressure sender, it clears up a lot of room back by the firewall. I was always unhappy about where it was since I put it in last winter.





I am not fully sure if I do want to drill and tap the manifold just yet. Not only do I not really need to at this moment, but if I go with the electric vacuum pump for the brake booster, I will then be making the large vac port on the back of the sniper available to be used by the pcv, which now is just going to the very small ports on the sniper baseplate. So, if I were to put the NPT pipe fitting barb into the manifold, I would then be capping it off fairly soon as it would be unused...unless I did ever decide to put a vacuum gauge somewhere inconspicuous in the cabin...then I would run the vac gauge to this npt port. Not really a fan of that idea, but maybe, maybe in the future I will revisit it. Also, on these victor junior manifolds, there really isn't a nice flat spot to drill and tap into, every surface has an angle, see photo of where my "best" spot would be, and if you look across from it, you can see the inside of the plenum area is a triangle shape. Also I do not currently have a NPT tap and die set. Lastly, I do not know where I want to mount the nitrous solenoids, lines, and how I want to position the spray plate. It would stink if I mounted this vacuum fitting and then it became in-the-way of the nitrous equipment. So, I might skip this whole vac port idea for the moment, but keep the fittings here on my parts shelf.










Anyways. I think thats it for now. I checked the oil a LOT of times during this, but I guess I should do an oil change anyways. Damn, this oil only had about 400 miles on it.
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Old 05-03-2021, 06:36 AM   #320
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If you fit it, I would personally run a aluminum carb spacer and thread & tap your vac fitting into that.
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Old 05-03-2021, 08:08 PM   #321
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Certainly a good idea. I had thought of that in spring of last year when I was researching phenolic carb spacers. I got (and still run) a phenolic 4 hole 1/2" tall spacer to help solve the infamous "holley sniper whistle". I thought about putting a vacuum port into it then, but was concerned that the height was not enough. My other issue with it is, well, I know I will be putting a nitrous plate right in that spot where the current spacer is. I didn't want to have a real tall stack of spacers and nitrous spray plates, so I withheld from doing so.


Small update, after work today I had two hours free, so i got everything as clean as I could and got the intake manifold set back onto the engine. snugged al the bolts down, and then torqued them to the proper spec in the order that is illustrated a few posts above. I used the permatex 90-minute ready "right Stuff" sealant on the Edelbrock 7201 gaskets. Letting everything sit overnight and tomorrow after work I hope to get the sniper back on, fuel lines, vac lines, and coolant in the system. I also have to reinstall the hyperspark distributor, phase it, set inductive delay, and whatnot. Going to top off the Evans coolant, recheck the torque on the bolts, change the spark plugs, hookup the throttle cable, TV cable, and tI have some wiring to clean-up and make even less visible than before. After that, I want to run the engine for a few minutes, and then drain the oil and change the filter. Does this sound like an o.k. plan, or am I missing something important?










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Old 05-03-2021, 08:56 PM   #322
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You got it covered. Press on!
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Old 05-05-2021, 08:26 PM   #323
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thanks man!

Got everything installed, checked, and double checked this afternoon. Put in new spark plugs and the distributor timing was set to match the hyperspark and all that needed to be done also. Got it up to temp and checked timing and static-timing. Also, no leaks of anything, so I am happy about that. Took some time to redo some of the wiring that got moved around during the disassembly. Things at the back of the firewall are much neater, and I am happy about that. Oil pressure if great (still high, but that's been discussed on and off for many months now) and the relocated oil pressure sender makes me happy. All in all, successful project, and it would have needed to be taken care of sooner or later because that coolant leak could have started dumping coolant into the engine without me knowing, so I am glad that this was tackled now. It was too rainy here to do a test drive, but I will do it tomorrow. Did a datalog while the engine warmed up and fiddling with the timing stuff. Will also change the oil and filter tomorrow, and hopefully if the test drive is good, will get the car setup for drag racing Test and Tune this Friday night at Island Dragway.

Recap with question: Just this past week I relocated my Holley Sniper's coolant temperature sensor. It used to be right in the intake manifold next to the thermostat housing and was very unsightly. I cut the wire and extended it, allowing the CTS to now be mounted in the coolant port that is on the passenger cylinder head between cylinder 6 and 8. I then put a pipe-plug at the hole in the manifold and I am very happy with the look.

I expected to read higher coolant temps, but now that I am visually seeing the higher temp numbers on my sniper's display, I am getting curious. Typically I was used to seeing 178-185 at the sensor when it was at the top of the intake by the thermostat. Now I am seeing 225-235. I used my temp gun to check the block, heads, manifold, and the temp gun confirms my 230 reading at the head, as well as the 175 number that is still at the pipe plug area at the intake manifold.

So, in short, the engine is running exactly the same, but I am wondering if these higher CTS values are now something I need to consider during changes to my tune files. What do I need to change immediately, and what should I keep an eye on and adjust later????
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Old 05-06-2021, 07:07 AM   #324
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I say don't let those numbers trouble you. As you said, you expected them. Good luck at T&T, looking forward to a new PB
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and once i get PHB, what do i ajust it too?
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Old 05-06-2021, 07:47 AM   #325
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You'd have to take a look at your tune to see what spark and fueling is doing at those higher temp readings to know if there will be a difference in performance. Have fun at the track.
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