WW3?

[shane27]

crazy **** going on, i hope the U.S keeps out of it...

http://www.foxnews.com/

[Bandit]

Alot of folks consider WW3 - The Cold War.. Yeah some erie stuff going on in the world and with todays media I don't care to watch TV much now.

[enRo]

Yeah some erie stuff going on in the world and with todays media I don't care to watch TV much now.

:bow: :werd:

[maroman88]

yea were screwed all right

[Savage_Messiah]

Shane, your boy Bush is loving this.

[Rob WS6]

WWIII... possible. But this one is going to be different. Along with fighting outside our country lines in places we dont have any business being, we will also be fighting a revolution of our own on this very soil.

[WayFast84]

whats on our own soil?

[deadtrend1]

whats on our own soil?

some grass, few buildings, trees, pavement and such .....

[Rob WS6]

whats on our own soil?

Are you serious? It means the USA.

[Savage_Messiah]

WWIII... possible. But this one is going to be different. Along with fighting outside our country lines in places we dont have any business being, we will also be fighting a revolution of our own on this very soil.

agreed x 8745890246307842853

[Frosty]

Well if WW3 is going to start it's gonna start in that ******** part of the world.

[Savage_Messiah]

check that link again now... "Hezbollah Declares 'Open War' (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,203453,00.html)"

[Frosty]

Yup, just read that.

Hold onto your asses everyone.

[Slow 88]

When Germany decides to go down to the middle east, then you better start worrying!

[BigAls87Z28]

Welp, the **** has hit the fan. Its just a matter of time.
So those who have fire arms in the house, lock and load. For those that dont, I suggest you get some.

[Rob WS6]

I was actually thinking about picking up a few guns considering the way things are going to ****. A hand gun and maybe a semi-automatic assault rifle would do nicely... ;)

[Dark_Knight7096]

I was planning on putting my M4gery build on hold to mod my GTP, now I'm going to complete my battle carbine first, along with stocking up on a few K rounds of 5.56mm, Hydrashocks are going in the USP Tac, and I'll keep the DE's mag full. If Israel is gonna be a precipitating cause I might as well have an IMI weapon in ready to go. I'm also gonna start investing in precious metals just incase the **** REALLY hits the fan. All our money is just paper and worthless metals, if things go real bad, it won't hurt to have an extra form of currency laying around, plus gold, silver, platinum, and palladium all have the potential to INCREASE in value, especially Palladium which is at a historical low right now at ~330 bux an ounce.

Wow, all those crazy survivalist gun nut "crazy people" on all my gun forums may have actually been right! What are the odds?

[Brando56894]

Welp, the **** has hit the fan. Its just a matter of time.
So those who have fire arms in the house, lock and load. For those that dont, I suggest you get some.

looks like im set then :mrgreen:

[WayFast84]

whats the revolution in our own country????

**** Im screwed, why would we need firearms in our houses???

[Ian]

whats the revolution in our own country????

think back to the revolutionary war...there's your answer.

**** Im screwed, why would we need firearms in our houses???

see answer provided above

[Frosty]

whats the revolution in our own country????

**** Im screwed, why would we need firearms in our houses???

Do you watch the news at all?

[Ian]

Do you watch the news at all?

he's 14. I know I didn't watch the news when I was 14 :shrug:

[Ian]

It seems the situation just got worse. syria (Hamas) pledged their help to Hezbullah and Iran is backing them too. who is smack dab right in the middle? Iraq, which is full of US troops. This really doesn't look good :(

[BigAls87Z28]

Not good at all. Looks like we will be moving more troops to the area incase of a problem. I wouldnt be surprised if there was some sort of uproar in Saudi Arabia as well, THEN we are ****ed. We are smack dab in the middle of Arab Central, and its deffinatly not gunna be pretty. Its time to move troops out before it becomes a mess.

[Rob WS6]

And thus, the early stages of "WWIII". Hold on to your asses boys and girls, its gonna be a BUMPY ride.

[maroman88]

ok get us out of iraq and bomb the **** out of all the bad middle eastern countries, do it from our own soil so we can watch and enjoy the fireworks

[Brando56894]

Not good at all. Looks like we will be moving more troops to the area incase of a problem. I wouldnt be surprised if there was some sort of uproar in Saudi Arabia as well, THEN we are ****ed. We are smack dab in the middle of Arab Central, and its deffinatly not gunna be pretty. Its time to move troops out before it becomes a mess.

:stupid: we should of never ****en gone over there in the first place!

[Ian]

ok get us out of iraq and bomb the **** out of all the bad middle eastern countries, do it from our own soil so we can watch and enjoy the fireworks

as soon as one of our nukes leaves the ground, any of those countries will launch their own right back at us. a nuclear war is something that should be avoided at all costs.

[enRo]

Well, how I figure it... since we have a ship at the international space station, why not have them push the moon onto the middle east. Nothing nuclear about it :-D

[shane27]

:stupid: we should of never ****en gone over there in the first place!yeah so then they can just attack us again :rollseye:

[Frosty]

This will be another huge opportunity North Korea to grow big balls.

Shane, while I support the Iraq campaign to a point Iraq didn't have much to with 9-11.

[NJSPEEDER]

if a bunch of countries that have been fighting amongst themselves for 500+ years is what makes you think a world war is going to break out, then you must also believe that the easter bunny and santa are coming to save teh day.
all these groups know is terrorism, not war. all of the things that are getting pointed at as signs of war are just proof that terrorism will be around for a long long time.
there is no need to change your daily routine or stockpile a supply of weapons and provisions in a bunker somewhere. just pay attention and do your fellow citizens the favor of paying attention to and reporting if you see anything suspicious.

[shane27]

Shane, while I support the Iraq campaign to a point Iraq didn't have much to with 9-11.iraq had terrorist training camps. they had weapons of mass destruction, saddam hussein was himself a terrorist. 9.11 was a terrorist attack. we declared war on terror. that is why we went to iraq and that is why we are still there.

[Slow 88]

iraq had terrorist training camps. they had weapons of mass destruction, saddam hussein was himself a terrorist. 9.11 was a terrorist attack. we declared war on terror. that is why we went to iraq and that is why we are still there.


Saddam was a terrorist among the shi'ites and kurds but not americans...There were terrorist camps in Germany also does that mean that they fund them? Australia too!!

Also, what weapons of mass destruction are you talking of? They did not find anything except some chemicals which he never denied...

We definitely went to the wrong country, because "IRAN" has been funding terrorist camps for decades and now that Iraq is very venerable right now is exactly what Iran wants....Because the minute we step foot out of there Iran we'll be doing there best to take it over...Even though Saddam is a whack job he kept other countries at bay and the radicals with in the country he ran...

[shane27]

Also, what weapons of mass destruction are you talking of? They did not find anything except some chemicals which he never denied...

..Even though Saddam is a whack job he kept other countries at bay and the radicals with in the country he ran...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200763,00.html
those weapons of mass destruction

and as for saddam, do you not remember the first gulf war...he also killed his own people and had ties with al queda, a terrorist organization.

[Frosty]

If you think we're in there soley for people of Iraq and to "protect" ourselves I have some ocean front property to sell you in Arizona, I'll let it go cheap.

I support most of the war efforts but let's be honest, most of the reasons the administration has given us has been ********.

[Slow 88]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200763,00.html
those weapons of mass destruction

and as for saddam, do you not remember the first gulf war...he also killed his own people and had ties with al queda, a terrorist organization.

I already stated chemicals! Plus, I never said that he was a nice guy re-read my post I said that he is wack job......Yes, he killed his own people but that has NOTHING to do with the U.S.A....They are animals over there and he knows how to keep 'em in check.....Ties to Al qaeda where did you get this info? If I remember correctly they never found a connection between the two...WE SHOULD NOT BE THERE RIGHT NOW!!! I know people are goin start saying that we are helping them form a government but it is useless they do not want one!!!! I.E. if you have your mind set on something like buying a GM brand car but your friends tell you to buy from brand B, I'll guaranty that you'll buy the GM because that is what you want and nobody can change your mind....You just can't make someone or group of people want what you want.... Off track but Bush said that he would off set gas prices by pretty much taking oil from them to help pay for the war but guess what we're paying out our ass so what are we gaining from this war nothing but A HUGE DEFICIT that is all.....But The Bush's and the likes of oil companies are making out like fat cats....Let's face it do you really care if they have a government over there? I sure in the hell don't because it's all about religion with them and their views and YOU or I will never change that..

[BigAls87Z28]

Saddam was the best thing to happen to Iraq. Yeah, he killed his own people...but the different sections werent at war with eachother, blowing up car bombs and killing people left and right. Iraq needs to be ruled with an Iron Fist. If he didnt start all that fuss in 89, we would have just kept him on our good side. He bit the hand that fed him.
Bush went into Iraq for other motives other then WMD. Saudi, Iran, Syria, and Afganastan ALL have or had a lot more to do with terrorist attacks then Iraq. We have been patroling Iraq since the end of the Gulf Conflict in 91. No fly zones, constant watch over everything Saddam does....we had that place damn near locked down. If anything didnt look right and something was out of place, there was a GBU dropped on it, a Maverick launched at it, and 400 rounds shot it up.
I support the troops, but I do not support why we went in there, why we are sending men of my age, people I know and grew up with, into war for a reason that amounted to be nothing. Our leadership is clouded. Bush think's hes on some Dude Ranch, and that enough shooting and bombing, this will all go away.
BTW, did anyone see how big of a dumbass he made himself look in Germany? Daily Show was running "highlights" of it....AMAZING he was voted back in office.
I wish that McCain won the party in 2000. I hated Bush after he smeared the **** out of that good man.

[Slow 88]

Saddam was the best thing to happen to Iraq. Yeah, he killed his own people...but the different sections werent at war with eachother, blowing up car bombs and killing people left and right. Iraq needs to be ruled with an Iron Fist. If he didnt start all that fuss in 89, we would have just kept him on our good side. He bit the hand that fed him.
Bush went into Iraq for other motives other then WMD. Saudi, Iran, Syria, and Afganastan ALL have or had a lot more to do with terrorist attacks then Iraq. We have been patroling Iraq since the end of the Gulf Conflict in 91. No fly zones, constant watch over everything Saddam does....we had that place damn near locked down. If anything didnt look right and something was out of place, there was a GBU dropped on it, a Maverick launched at it, and 400 rounds shot it up.
I support the troops, but I do not support why we went in there, why we are sending men of my age, people I know and grew up with, into war for a reason that amounted to be nothing. Our leadership is clouded. Bush think's hes on some Dude Ranch, and that enough shooting and bombing, this will all go away.
BTW, did anyone see how big of a dumbass he made himself look in Germany? Daily Show was running "highlights" of it....AMAZING he was voted back in office.
I wish that McCain won the party in 2000. I hated Bush after he smeared the **** out of that good man.

thumbs up!

[shane27]

Saddam was the best thing to happen to Iraq. Yeah, he killed his own people...but the different sections werent at war with eachother, blowing up car bombs and killing people left and right. Iraq needs to be ruled with an Iron Fist.this comming from people who say we need peace, and fighting isnt the answer...classic.

[BigAls87Z28]

Uh...anyone who knows me would never say I belive in "peace", but I guess since im a "liberal" I must want peace on earth and love for all.
I never said that NOT fighting is the answer. I dont like Bush, and the moves he has made over the past 3-4 years are insane. Invade a country without ever being attacked or them attacking any other country, on false pretenses that were made not only to the US, but the UN and the world. We went against our own allies wishes and invaded a country. THAT is my problem with it all. We are now in Vietnam II, a quagmire of ****. Two troops killed here, four more in a car bomb, 5 in a fire fight, 10 in a suicide bombing....its not massive numbers, but its in numbers in which the public can tally in there head. They know 10 people off the top of there head. A mom knows 5 kids around 18 years old, and that plays a heavy toll on peoples heads. We are never going to leave, and this can only mean very bad things.

Do not make the assumption, and an uninformed one at that, that I am a "Liberal" or a "tree hugger". Just because I wont blindly follow Pres. Bush with whatever he says doesnt make me a "liberal".

[Ian]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200763,00.html
those weapons of mass destruction

and as for saddam, do you not remember the first gulf war...he also killed his own people and had ties with al queda, a terrorist organization.

I like how in the entire news story, they dont say what they found or if they were left overs from 1991 :roll:

and as for how saddam ran his country, do you think you could do any better? when a country is in a constant state of civil unrest steps have to be taken to preserve the peace. Sometimes you have to show force to get the point across.

I don't agree with what saddam did, but it seemed to keep the middle east pretty calm. no one type of government works the best in every situation, if that were the case there would only be one type of government. For most of the middle east, a democracy wont work yet we are trying to force it upon them as if we know whats best for people living on the other side of the planet in a completely different situation than our own.

As much as you all hate it, Clinton was a better president. he left the whitehouse with no threats of war, we had a national surplus and the stock market and economy was doing pretty well. Enter Bush. Now we have an economy that can be likened to that of the great depression, a war on "terrorism" that we will never win and $8,442,959,662,084.53 worth of national debt. each person in this country would have to pay $28,159.11 to clear it and the deficit increases an average of 1.69 billion dollars a day since september 30th of 2005.

so to sum it all up, we have no business in the middle east unless it is to actually apprehend extremists who pose a tangible threat to us. That and Bush is the worst president ever. Thanks for ****ing all the little people while you and your buddies make millions....no really.....thank you so much for screwing the very country I grew up loving.

[Dark_Knight7096]

I had this huge response planned but I rwalized something the one or 2 people it was directed towards wouldn't care, nor would it mean anything to them.


Carry on.

[Savage_Messiah]

I like how in the entire news story, they dont say what they found or if they were left overs from 1991 :roll:

and as for how saddam ran his country, do you think you could do any better? when a country is in a constant state of civil unrest steps have to be taken to preserve the peace. Sometimes you have to show force to get the point across.

I don't agree with what saddam did, but it seemed to keep the middle east pretty calm. no one type of government works the best in every situation, if that were the case there would only be one type of government. For most of the middle east, a democracy wont work yet we are trying to force it upon them as if we know whats best for people living on the other side of the planet in a completely different situation than our own.

As much as you all hate it, Clinton was a better president. he left the whitehouse with no threats of war, we had a national surplus and the stock market and economy was doing pretty well. Enter Bush. Now we have an economy that can be likened to that of the great depression, a war on "terrorism" that we will never win and $8,442,959,662,084.53 worth of national debt. each person in this country would have to pay $28,159.11 to clear it and the deficit increases an average of 1.69 billion dollars a day since september 30th of 2005.

so to sum it all up, we have no business in the middle east unless it is to actually apprehend extremists who pose a tangible threat to us. That and Bush is the worst president ever. Thanks for ****ing all the little people while you and your buddies make millions....no really.....thank you so much for screwing the very country I grew up loving.

I completely agree, and could not have put it any better.

[Frosty]

Show me where your boy Clinton had a surplus? It was on paper, nothing more. Also, how would you expect ANY president to overcome a national disaster like 9/11 without the economy hurting?

No threats of war? How can you say Bush had ANYTHING to do with 9-11?(which started this entire fiasco) If you REALLY want to dig deep Clinton could've nailed bin Hiden while he was in office be said he wasn't a threat. I may think Bush is an idiot but c'mon, Clinton ****ed up in some areas too.

[Ian]

all I'm saying is that our economy was better and we didn't live in a constant state of fear because of terror attacks. and if I wanted to be a real big dick, I could point out that bush could have nailed bin laded too, but he chose to ignore the warnings of the attack and the result is us arguing over the internet about crap we can do nothing about :lol:

[Frosty]

But somehow Bush is getting blamed for the effects of 9/11...it doesn't make sense.

Ok, yeah Bush heard warning signs of 9-11...you do realize the FBI and CIA were/are getting thousands of "leads" every week right?

[shane27]

ok where oh where do i start...

clinton...a better president.... thats the funniest thing i have heard in a WHILE. HE the reason we were attacked on 9.11 we did abosutly nothing about the attacks on the WTC in the early 90s, gave our atom bombs secrets to China, cheated on his wife with an intern and straight up lied to the world about it. he was probably one of the worset presidents since jimmy carter.

and how can u say we have no busniess in iraq, and its liek vietnam. this is nothing even close to vietnam. this is war, and we loose soldiers, it happens. we took out bin ladens second hand man whatever his name was, and we have sent al queda into hiding along with bin laden, who were not even sure is alive anymore. we have been in iraq a little longer then i think needed, but what do i know, im just a civilian just like all you. we will pull out when the time is right....lol

as for donig a better job in iraq, im not a leader so no, i could not do a better job in iraq im sure someone who is qualified could. also unemployment is very low atm

oh and it wasnt the whole story becasue i could find it, but it does say: has been edited for clarity.

[Ian]

but when you got close to 100 leads about the same thing you'd think you'd look into it. I personally think that if you have the intel about something like that, you should take a few steps and at least investigate it, but nothing was done. and the thousands of leads are not all for planned domestic attacks, some are for other countries that we seem to care about. I'm just trying to say that if they can bust a plan to blow up the holland tunnel, why couldn't they at least look into the threats of a WTC attack?

I'm not blaming bush for 9/11, far from it. I am blaming him for our present military situation though. go in there, kill that people responsible for what happened and get out. if you cant find the person who was responsible, look harder. bin laden is still missing because we focused too much on saddam. if the leader on iraq cant escape from us, how did a small militant leader? we've been over there for years trying to institue a new government in a country that doesn't want it. even if we do setup a gov for them, within a year of our withdrawl (if that ever happens) it will be overthrown by some dictator and we'll go through the whole thing all over again.

[Ian]

clinton...a better president.... thats the funniest thing i have heard in a WHILE. HE the reason we were attacked on 9.11 we did abosutly nothing about the attacks on the WTC in the early 90s, gave our atom bombs secrets to China, cheated on his wife with an intern and straight up lied to the world about it. he was probably one of the worset presidents since jimmy carter.

him cheating on his wife really affects our national security and violates our freedom. thousands of men cheat on their wives every year and no one so much as blinks, but because he was the pres, he must be the worst man alive. obviously he did something right regarding the early 90's attacks because we didnt have to go to war or live with new threats every week. and if he didnt give the nuclear bomb secrets to china, someone else would have. Back then china wasn't such a big deal like it today.

and how can u say we have no busniess in iraq, and its liek vietnam. this is nothing even close to vietnam. this is war, and we loose soldiers, it happens. we took out bin ladens second hand man whatever his name was, and we have sent al queda into hiding along with bin laden, who were not even sure is alive anymore. we have been in iraq a little longer then i think needed, but what do i know, im just a civilian just like all you. we will pull out when the time is right....lol

fighting terrorism is never going to work because terrorism isnt tangible. Oh big deal, we made osama bin laden go into hiding. He's not dead like he should be, but its okay cause we have saddam who was obviously behind the whole thing. taking out the second in command does nothing at all, you have to wipe them all out.

as for donig a better job in iraq, im not a leader so no, i could not do a better job in iraq im sure someone who is qualified could. also unemployment is very low atm

oh and it wasnt the whole story becasue i could find it, but it does say: has been edited for clarity.


edited for clarity does not mean they removed the mention of what weapons they found for the sake of the public, it means they formatted the dialogue so it would flow better.

[Brando56894]

yeah so then they can just attack us again :rollseye:

iraq/iran didnt attack us, al-quida did....

IMO Bush is an idiot, he's make himself look like a complete ass in various types of media. Clinton never did that, nor has any other president (well to that extent). I believe that clinton was a better president then bush is. one thing that we all gotta remember is that the president only has like 40-50% of the power Congress/The House/Senate/etc... has the rest.

The president can be like "I want to drop a bomb there" and Congress can be like "**** you, no your not." The rest of the government is such a cluster**** that it makes the president look so bad cuz most people forget that he doesnt have complete control.

Bush did coke, Clinton smoked weed and got blown by monica, but clinton never had thousands of innocent men and women killed for a stupid reason. Like Ian(?) said the CIA/FBI knew about all this but bush never did a damn thing about it... Clinton was a much more competent president.

[Frosty]

B Like Ian(?) said the CIA/FBI knew about all this but bush never did a damn thing about it...

That's a damn bold statement. The CIA and FBI haven't had a reliable source of communication in years. The two departments worked AGAINST each other. You also realize Clinton cut a lot of the CIA right?

Hindsight is 20/20, I can't sit here and believe you guys honestly think 9/11 is/was Bush's fault. There is not enough man-power to check every lead, it's just not humanly possible. I guess it's Bush's fault that bin Hiden wasn't pursued after the USS Cole bombing in 2000 right?

[Z28 Heritage]

Can anyone clarify the "economy is real good" part? I'm a computer programmer who's job was offshored and was part of the telecom industry
which went down the tubes. Middle aged.....no comparable jobs to what i
had....if and a big if somebody wants you because of your age. Just wondering if we took all the people whos unemployment ran out and no longer count in the unemployment statistics and counted these people
what would the unemployment rate IN NJ be? Each month people roll off
and relatively the same number go on which keeps the rate at a supposed 5%. We could have a fake 5% rate forever that way. And if you look at every economic survey for the state of NJ and do your research on the economy in NJ the economy in NJ is poor....Thats just a fact. We lost all the manufacturing jobs and now all the high-tech jobs. Do the research. So where does this "the economy is good" mentality develop from?

[Brando56894]

9/11 wasnt bush's fault it was the governments fault

[Ian]

That's a damn bold statement. The CIA and FBI haven't had a reliable source of communication in years. The two departments worked AGAINST each other. You also realize Clinton cut a lot of the CIA right?

Hindsight is 20/20, I can't sit here and believe you guys honestly think 9/11 is/was Bush's fault. There is not enough man-power to check every lead, it's just not humanly possible. I guess it's Bush's fault that bin Hiden wasn't pursued after the USS Cole bombing in 2000 right?

I never said it was all bush's fault, I simply said that if you get near a hundred leads for the same attack that you should probably investigate it. I'm not pointing a finger at any one person. Clinton happened to have better relations with other countries and was good at avoiding war. Bush went against the UN and most of our allies and invaded Iraq with no concrete evidence that they had WMD's. a tactless move if you ask me.

[Slow 88]

Show me where your boy Clinton had a surplus? It was on paper, nothing more. Also, how would you expect ANY president to overcome a national disaster like 9/11 without the economy hurting?

No threats of war? How can you say Bush had ANYTHING to do with 9-11?(which started this entire fiasco) If you REALLY want to dig deep Clinton could've nailed bin Hiden while he was in office be said he wasn't a threat. I may think Bush is an idiot but c'mon, Clinton ****ed up in some areas too.


Where else are you going to read that Clinton had a surplus? Clinton, was the best pres. that we had in yrs... Of course he had problems but he had alot more upsides also....So what that he got a blow job it didn't effect any of our lives personnally and yes he lied but would you tell the truth if you were in that situation? What he should have said is that this is between my wife and I...Now, just because he got blown the Republicans wanted to impeach him hardcore but with this war going for 4 yrs. and Bush said that we would be out of there by (don't quote me) june of last yr. nothing has been said unbelievable!!! We are coming up on the 5th yr. of 9/11 and still no Bin Ladin!!

Also, everytime Bush opens his mouth he sounds like a retart...Then it is a supposed war going on in Iraq and you have a couple of soldiers who shoot some supposedly innocent people and they are going to jail c'mon that is BS!!!I know if I was there and with all of your buddies getting snuffed with car bombs I am shooting 1st ask questions later myself especially when the car isn't stoppping it is a war that **** happens..

[BigAls87Z28]

I think that his scandle stopped him from worrying about other issues. I remember that whenever he would launch a missle attack or bomb something, that the media said it was to distract the public from the REAL news, which was him lying about a BJ. Hell, they made a movie about it! Wag the Dog, was about how the White House faked a war to keep attention off the Pres.'s scandles. It could be said that all the investigation and such kept Clinton from doing his job, insted he was in front of a Grand Jury, so he could never realize what was going on and act on it.

[shane27]

clinton lied to the world about monica, we found out. makes me wonder what else he lied about that we didnt find out.


and al queda was based in iraq which is why we went there

and even tho you cant win the war on terrorism you have to do something to prevent it, you cant just sit back and not do **** and hope it goes away. otherwise it will get out of control

[BigAls87Z28]

Bush lied to America about WMD and now has put hundreds of thousands of soldiers that invaded a country against the UN, smack dab in the middle if a 1000 year old war for nothing. I think that trump's the BJ thing by....oh...I dunno....over 2000, 2000+ dead boys sent into a meaningless war.
Let that sit in your ****ing head. 2000+ troops died because the Pres lied about WMD and invaded another country. How many people died cause of a blow job? None.
Dont even ****ing think about comparing Clinton to Bush.

[V]

:willy: :fluffy:

[Frosty]

clinton lied to the world about monica, we found out. makes me wonder what else he lied about that we didnt find out.


and al queda was based in iraq which is why we went there




I'm by no means a Clinton fan but would you honestly say you'd admit to cheating on your wife or g/f? If you say you'd just easily admit it you're a liar.

Actually, most of the members of the hijacking crew of 9-11 were from Saudia Arabia. Maybe al Queda is/was based in Iraq it's still a known fact Saudia Arabia had a lot to do with 9/11.

[shane27]

I'm by no means a Clinton fan but would you honestly say you'd admit to cheating on your wife or g/f? If you say you'd just easily admit it you're a liar.

Actually, most of the members of the hijacking crew of 9-11 were from Saudia Arabia. Maybe al Queda is/was based in Iraq it's still a known fact Saudia Arabia had a lot to do with 9/11. i wouldnt lie about it publically on national tv to millions maybe billions of people.

iraq had WOMD which is why we went there


Bush lied to America about WMD and now has put hundreds of thousands of soldiers that invaded a country against the UN, smack dab in the middle if a 1000 year old war for nothing. I think that trump's the BJ thing by....oh...I dunno....over 2000, 2000+ dead boys sent into a meaningless war.
Let that sit in your ****ing head. 2000+ troops died because the Pres lied about WMD and invaded another country. How many people died cause of a blow job? None.
Dont even ****ing think about comparing Clinton to Bush. oh and how many ****ing people died on 9.11 cuz clinton was too busy screwing around and being a total ****tard and running this country into the ground. he made us vulnurable, by not taking action.

how did bush lie about WMD? you have no evidance and u just say a whole bunch of crap without any facts. i will compare bush to clinton becasue clinton is a jackass...this is war buddy and people die. it sucks but its how it is. were in iraq for a reason. btw isnt it congress that allows us to go to war?

[Slow 88]

i wouldnt lie about it publically on national tv to millions maybe billions of people.

iraq had WOMD which is why we went there


oh and how many ****ing people died on 9.11 cuz clinton was too busy screwing around and being a total ****tard and running this country into the ground. he made us vulnurable, by not taking action.

how did bush lie about WMD? you have no evidance and u just say a whole bunch of crap without any facts. i will compare bush to clinton becasue clinton is a jackass...this is war buddy and people die. it sucks but its how it is. were in iraq for a reason. btw isnt it congress that allows us to go to war?


Wow!! I take it that you are republican...

[Frosty]

Wow!! I take it that you are republican...

So am I but this guy is a ****ing joke.

[Frosty]

i wouldnt lie about it publically on national tv to millions maybe billions of people.

iraq had WOMD which is why we went there


As much as I dislike him for lying he did what ANY MAN would do, he wasn't the President on TV, he was just every normal man. Of course I fault him for being a liar but I don't blame him.

Wait, I thought we were in Iraq because al Queda was based there..now it's because they had WMD's? Which one is it? Are you sure you're not John Kerry with all of the flip flopping? :rofl:

No one has really touched on the 2 probably reason on why we're there.

[Slow 88]

So am I but this guy is a ****ing joke.

As you can see I said it with sarcasm as it seems that the republicans do no wrong in his eyes....

That brings up a good question....what makes oneself to choose a political party? I am willing to bet that 99.9% of the people go with what their parents consider themselves....

So, lets hear it boys and girls prove me wrong....

[Frosty]

My dad and his side of the family are Democrat. My mom could care less and her side of the family usually vote Republican but don't get involved too much with politics.

I'm registered Republican because of their business backrounds(well, aside from this adminstration), the balls to back up what they say and usually the non-political correct approach. I don't agree with tax and spend Democrats or ones that appease minorities or social programs.

The ironic thing is the 2 big issues with the Republicans are ones I don't agree with. I'm for woman's choice and gay rights, which goes against their views but who cares.

I might actually re-register as an Independent because the two party political system is going downhill. Neither party gives a flying **** about the normal people. They care about their special interest groups or they try to appease certain groups of people. They squabble over petty ******** while the every day person like you and me get left out in the cold.

[Ian]

the two most probably reasons for being in Iraq.

1. finish what dear ole dad couldn't
2. oil

[Tsar]

the two most probably reasons for being in Iraq.

1. finish what dear ole dad couldn't
2. oil
:werd:

/thread

ohh and theres not gonna be a WW3, at least not because of this crap.

ok now /thread.

[Frosty]

the two most probably reasons for being in Iraq.

1. finish what dear ole dad couldn't
2. oil

I'll give you #1. I don't think it's #2

Look at the map, look at where Iraq is. Think about this, if we're going to be in the Middle East for the long haul to "fight terrorism" we need an established base/friendly area if we're going to launch other offensives in other countries.

I could be way off, could be out of my mind but if you really look at it it's not far off.

[WayFast84]

I'm by no means a Clinton fan but would you honestly say you'd admit to cheating on your wife or g/f? If you say you'd just easily admit it you're a liar.



I would 100% telling the truth admit it to my girlfreind that I cheated on her if I did.

[Savage_Messiah]

oh and how many ****ing people died on 9.11 cuz clinton was too busy screwing around and being a total ****tard and running this country into the ground. he made us vulnurable, by not taking action.
dont even ****ing TRY to throw around 9/11 for all of your little "democrats are the root of all evil" ********. And how is staying out of war, bringing the country out of debt into surplus, creating tons of jobs, and WORRYING MORE ABOUT THE COUNTRYS INTERNAL PROBLEMS running it into the ground? Bush has sucessfully plunged us way the **** back into debt, lies about things that actually affect american lives, lets the economy, crime, and all other internal situations go to **** just because he's trying to be the tough guy? That my friend, is running a country into the ground.

Here's something for you: if all we worry about is going after other countries that may attack us, then eventually we'll have nothing left for them to attack.

And here's another something: Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen. This was to convince Congress that we had enough reason to go into WW2. History repeats itself.

[GP99GT]

shane youre getting owned, give up



so anyway, i was reading this website the other day. they said a plane on a treadmill that matches the planes speed will never take off. i say it will. discuss

[shane27]

you know why daddy gave up? cuz the world told him too and now look at us. if he was allowed to finuish it off we wouldnt be here.

but anyway how do u say its for oil? any speceifc reasoning? looked at gas lately?

oh and sorry for not stating all my facts into one post for the 10th time Frosty. i was trying to state things bluntly but i guess thats not good enough for you. either way both is true. iraq had both WMD and was a home of al queda. which reason do you liek better?

and 9.11 happened partly becasue clinton didnt do **** for our national security.if it came out before as it was all his fault im SRYYY, but i ment partyly his fault. which it was.

[Frosty]

Shane, give it up. As much as I think Iraq had WMD's that were moved there was still not enough proof to claim they definately had WMD's. Will it come out later that they had them? Probably. It doesn't matter. Bush sold the American people and the world that Iraq had and was making WMD's and there has been no substantial proof. We're just now finding some bits and pieces on info.

Also, you need to read up, the world had nothing to do with us not completing the job in Desert Storm. Our own government, namely Congress decided that they didn't want to push all the way to Baghdad because there was no exit plan in place.

Also, nice way to avoid my Saudia Arabia reference.

[Tsar]

you know why daddy gave up? cuz the world told him too and now look at us. if he was allowed to finuish it off we wouldnt be here.history is good, ******** is bad ok? now go look up a real reason why US didnt invade Baghdad in 1991. hint it has to do with chemical weapons and possibility of Saddam pwning the troops with them...
Even soldiers who are there disagree with the war, of course not all of them but alot of them. And yes i do personally know several people who are deployed to Iraq and guess what they dont wanna be there and fight the stupid war that wasnt suppose to happen.

looked at gas lately? Heck yea i did, just got 14.5 gallons of 93 @ 3.29 a gallon! Question i wanna ask you is, ever been to Europe, **** even Canada? Go there then you'll stop complaining about gas prices. Face it you have it cheap. Cant afford gas? WALK!

[Ian]

you know why daddy gave up? cuz the world told him too and now look at us. if he was allowed to finuish it off we wouldnt be here.

yes, the whole reason we got attacked was because we didnt get saddam the first time :roll: . going against the wishes of the entire worls is not a good idea. Yes we are the most powerful country in the world, but in a civilized world might does not make right.

but anyway how do u say its for oil? any speceifc reasoning? looked at gas lately?

maybe because our president has ties with OPEC. every time the price of gas goes up, he gets more money. I liked how gas prices went through the roof when katrina hit even though the largest stockpile of fuel in the united states is in new jersey.

oh and sorry for not stating all my facts into one post for the 10th time Frosty. i was trying to state things bluntly but i guess thats not good enough for you. either way both is true. iraq had both WMD and was a home of al queda. which reason do you liek better?

home of al queda you say? you realize of course that the terrorists who commited the 9/11 attacks were based out of florida right?

and 9.11 happened partly becasue clinton didnt do **** for our national security.if it came out before as it was all his fault im SRYYY, but i ment partyly his fault. which it was.

Clinton cops some head and that compromises national security? I'm a little lost here. our country's reputation was near spotless when clinton was in office and now all the other nations of the world think we're a power hungry, war mongering nation on a power trip. we went from having the entire world's sympathy after 9/11 to being one of the most disliked nations in the world less than a year later.

[Slow 88]

history is good, ******** is bad ok? now go look up a real reason why US didnt invade Baghdad in 1991. hint it has to do with chemical weapons and possibility of Saddam pwning the troops with them...
Even soldiers who are there disagree with the war, of course not all of them but alot of them. And yes i do personally know several people who are deployed to Iraq and guess what they dont wanna be there and fight the stupid war that wasnt suppose to happen.

Heck yea i did, just got 14.5 gallons of 93 @ 3.29 a gallon! Question i wanna ask you is, ever been to Europe, **** even Canada? Go there then you'll stop complaining about gas prices. Face it you have it cheap. Cant afford gas? WALK!


I agree with you but the gas price thing is plain BS!!!! Because we pay out all kinds of money to alot of middle eastern countries so they will leave each other alone but apparently that doesn't work lol....Also, if it wasn't for the USA and Britain mainly Britain they would not have AN OIL INDUSTRY PERIOD!!! For the simple fact that we are the ones who built the oil rigs and made those **** sucking little desert dwellers rich and all they want to do is take us out unbelievable!!

[shane27]

sigh.

....i wasnt complaining about gas prices....i was asking if hes seen them lately i didnt say one word about not being able to afford it.


...i said ONE of the homes of alqueda

and i dont know about you but i would rather be disliked then have another 9.11 and be sympathized.

and yes if we went after him in the 90s this wouldnt be happening right now

and if those soldiers dont want to be there why did they sign up for the army?

[Frosty]

and yes if we went after him in the 90s this wouldnt be happening right now




...and guess what? Part of the reason he was left in power was because of OUR government...

[shane27]

...and guess what? Part of the reason he was left in power was because of OUR government...yeah i know. i said that before lol

oh and gettign back to your post before...we just found they had them becasue it was top secret information. we found them in 2003 and it was just reasled to the public. so ty

[Ian]

...i said ONE of the homes of alqueda

bringing me back to my previous point, you cant fight terrorism. terrorists are mobile. If they're about to be found, they pack up and leave...which they have done. But for some damn reason, instead of actually looking for them, we're wasting billions of dollars and the lives of our troops by keeping them over there.

and i dont know about you but i would rather be disliked then have another 9.11 and be sympathized.

just because we had sympathy didnt mean we weren't going to act. The reason we lost all respect and sympathy was because we went against the UN, most of our allies and our enemies and invaded Iraq. thats why we're hated, not because we are there, but be casue we went there when everyone told us not to.

and yes if we went after him in the 90s this wouldnt be happening right now

its impossible to know that this wouldn't have happened if we got him in the 90's. thats like saying, well, if I didn't get picked last for dodgeball in 3rd grade, I would have gotten a better job at age 35.

and if those soldiers dont want to be there why did they sign up for the army?

The soldiers believe in fighting for the freedom of our country, thats why they signed up. most of the soldiers see first hand that we aren't making any real progess. We are still getting blown up with road side bombs, our "government" that we "graced" them with is lousy and our troops dont even have the proper equipment.

[Ian]

oh and gettign back to your post before...we just found they had them becasue it was top secret information. we found them in 2003 and it was just reasled to the public. so ty

that is one of the most bogus things I've ever heard! top secret? it was UN inspectors that went there looking for them and they weren't allowed in. Common sense dictates that if everyone is pissed becasue of the lack of WMD, if you found them you'd let everyone know so they wouldn't be angry anymore.

[shane27]

so since we cant find terrorism we should just not try. since we cant catch everyone who does drugs we should give up on that too right?


so how should we of "acted" after 9.11. and we should listen to everyone else that told us not too. so it can be a repeat of the early 90s. and look where we are now. fighting the same guy again. talk about history repeating itself.

um idk about ur dodgeball thing

improper equipment, thanks kerry. we took saddam huseein and his first hand man out of power, oh and we found WMD. but ya other then that no real progress was made..oh we took alqeuda out of power too. but yeah other then all that. no prgress is being made

and as for the top secret thing being bogus? um google it you can find it anywhere. foxnews. cnn whatever you would like. its true get over it

[Ian]

I give up because you just dont get it.

[shane27]

yes i just dont get it. why are we at war we should act differently but i dont know how we just should. we cant fight terrorizm so we should just give up and give up all we have done already. im gunan ignore the facts and....oh and the soldiers dont really wanna be there. they told me... and yeah im done with this thread two because bush sucks. and we shoudnt be at war. we should be asking the people who hate us nicely to stop terrorizing.

[Frosty]

oh and gettign back to your post before...we just found they had them becasue it was top secret information. we found them in 2003 and it was just reasled to the public. so ty

********! This adminstration has been desperate for information/proof to justify the invasion. If your theory was even close to correct we would've heard about it in '03.

Dude, no offense but you're the most biased Republican I've ever met. Just because you're a Republican doesn't mean you can't speak out against the President. I voted for Bush both times and I don't think he's doing a great job. Do I think he is/was better than Kerry? Yeah but that's not saying much, it's along the same lines of being the fastest kid in the Special Olympics. :rofl:

[Tsar]

so how should we of "acted" after 9.11. and we should listen to everyone else that told us not too. so it can be a repeat of the early 90s. and look where we are now. fighting the same guy again. talk about history repeating itself.


WOW are you ****ing serious. i think you have your **** confused. After 9/11 USA annialated AFGANISTAN where Bin Laden had his Al-queda main training camps set up. Also Taliban was destroyed, if memory serves me correctly they used to be buddy buddy with them just like Bin Laden - but thats not really what we are talking about here so anyways. IRAQ DID NOT MAKE SEPTEMBER 11 HAPPEN! GET IT THRU YOUR HEAD. If anything 11 of the hijackers were from SAUDI ARABIA, you know the country that you supply a ****ton of weapons and buy oil from and is one of your friends. NOTHING happened to them... Fast forward a couple month and bush starts this whole "war on terrorism" :laugh: thing and all of a sudden its "if you are not with us, you're against us". Thats when the whole WMD ******** started. Fast forward to today - Bush is a lieing piece of crap who draged a country into a war cuz his daddy wasnt man enough to finish it, and now innocent people are dead ( im talking about US soldiers, cuz i know you think all the Arabs are bad and terrorists most likely).


Ohh and about the soldiers thing, and why did they sign up. im not even gonna start on that. If you gotta ask that then you are completely retarded and not worth talking to. You dont know jack **** what its like out there but yet you got the balls to judge people who putting their own life on the line to protect your - is it even worth it? How many times have you stared at a barrel of a AK, been at a sigth of an explosion, or had **** explode next to you....yea i didnt think so.

[shane27]

but were all still friends right

[Frosty]

most of the soldiers see first hand that we aren't making any real progess.

I disagree there. What you see on CNN is NOT the entire story. There is a TON of good going on over there but the typical doom & gloom media doesn't want to show it because the war isn't popular.

I know quit a few soldiers in different areas and while some areas are showing a lot of resistance still A LOT of the people are happy we're there.

[jola]

To aid in Shane's cause : http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

I know it is from Fox News. Sometimes the government classifies important information.

[jola]

Clinton cops some head and that compromises national security? I'm a little lost here. our country's reputation was near spotless when clinton was in office and now all the other nations of the world think we're a power hungry, war mongering nation on a power trip. we went from having the entire world's sympathy after 9/11 to being one of the most disliked nations in the world less than a year later.
What?

[Frosty]

To aid in Shane's cause : http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

I know it is from Fox News. Sometimes the government classifies important information.

I read that article. However, this is NOT new information. The story of them finding degraded mustard and serin gas was reported when it first happened 2 and a half years ago.

EDIT: Spelling owns me.

[Tsar]

I disagree there. What you see on CNN is NOT the entire story. There is a TON of good going on over there but the typical doom & gloom media doesn't want to show it because the war isn't popular.

I know quit a few soldiers in different areas and while some areas are showing a lot of resistance still A LOT of the people are happy we're there.
of course you're gonna have both sides. some are happy to be there and some wanna get out. its never going to be 100% one way. I know a guy who was all excited to go to Iraq (yes he was actully wanting to go to war and all that jazz) once he got there...um...he doesnt like it anymore.

[shane27]

alright im sick of getting ****ing words put in my mouth for me. i wasnt disrepsectijng our soldiers at all wtf did u get that **** from. i know why the soldiers signed up. to PROTECT OUR COUNTRY. and what are they donig now? PROTECTING.

p.s Jola FTW

[Tsar]

What?
what didnt u understand?

[Frosty]

of course you're gonna have both sides. some are happy to be there and some wanna get out. its never going to be 100% one way. I know a guy who was all excited to go to Iraq (yes he was actully wanting to go to war and all that jazz) once he got there...um...he doesnt like it anymore.

Of course. I was just making the statement that there is progress, we just don't see a lot of it that's all.

[Frosty]

what didnt u understand?

He didn't understand how our image wasn't tarnished during the Clinton admin. In a way it was, we were crucified for the Bosnia debacle.

[Tsar]

alright im sick of getting ****ing words put in my mouth for me. i wasnt disrepsectijng our soldiers at all wtf did u get that **** from. i know why the soldiers signed up. to PROTECT OUR COUNTRY. and what are they donig now? PROTECTING.

p.s Jola FTW
Protecting means there was a threat. Iraq was not. we already had this discussion. There's no way Iraq could've attacked United States of America, get it now?

[jola]

what didnt u understand?
I'm a little lost here. our country's reputation was near spotless when clinton was in office...
That is what I don't understand, unless near spotless really means less violence then now.

[Tsar]

He didn't understand how our image wasn't tarnished during the Clinton admin. In a way it was, we were crucified for the Bosnia debacle.
heh i remember that, but it wasnt as bad is it is now. Um...i was actually in Russia (clearly media is agasint you there :lol:) at that time and despite that my opinion wasnt changed much. :shrug:

[shane27]

Protecting means there was a threat. Iraq was not. we already had this discussion. There's no way Iraq could've attacked United States of America, get it now?yeah those hunderds of WMD would of never been used towards the U.S even tho he was told to get rid of them by your precious UN years ago. and then lied about them later. nah iraq is no threat even tho for the 10TH TIME I HAVE TO SAY THIS. there were terrorist training camps, and WDM. i dont think CONGRESS wouldnt of passsed the war if we werent gonig there for a reason

[Tsar]

That is what I don't understand, unless near spotless really means less violence then now.
Well US will always be hated for something, but during Clinton era even i can come up with more good things then bad. but hey what does a commie know about United States.

[Frosty]

So Shane, why Iraq? Saudia Arabia I bet has WAAAAAAAY more of those weapons and WAAAAAY more people that dislike us. Iran and North Korea were starting their trash talking around that time too, so why Iraq and not those other countries?

..and I'm asking a serious question here. I don't mind that we're in Iraq, but we were lied to. They built their invasion plan on all these WMD's and didn't find much(c'mon, degraded mustard gas justifies an invasion?)

[shane27]

Well US will always be hated for something, but during Clinton era even i can come up with more good things then bad. but hey what does a commie know about United States.yeah vetoing drilling oil in Anuar which would of lowered gas prices, that was good. umm giving our atm bomb secrets to china, another good thing, hooking up with intern, Great thing. um... a WTC attack in early 90s. oh the list is so big

[shane27]

So Shane, why Iraq? Saudia Arabia I bet has WAAAAAAAY more of those weapons and WAAAAAY more people that dislike us. Iran and North Korea were starting their trash talking around that time too, so why Iraq and not those other countries?becasue if we were there people would be asking, WHY ARE WE HHEREEE WAR IS WRONG FIND ANOTHER WAY why arent we in iraq or iran or north korea.

well for the what? 20th time now iraq had WMD let alone other things that ive listed about 20 times. WMD are Weapons of Mass Destruction. and there was enough there to obleterate Manhattan.

[Tsar]

yeah those hunderds of WMD would of never been used towards the U.S even tho he was told to get rid of them by your precious UN years ago. and then lied about them later. nah iraq is no threat even tho for the 10TH TIME I HAVE TO SAY THIS. there were terrorist training camps, and WDM. i dont think CONGRESS wouldnt of passsed the war if we werent gonig there for a reason
So ok Iraq had WMDs "mustard gas :lol:" (ill go along with your childish theory). So tell me how they were gonna attack USA? Keep in mind that at the time Iraq had a 3 plane airforce that consisted of three mig-21 i believe. a plane that WILL NOT MAKE IT ACROSS atlantic especially with some kinda bomb attach to it. You must know its pretty hard to develop intercontinental ballistic missles, or any other way to deliver the punch. I.E. Sub, Ship, bomber. Iraq had none of those. Also on top of that Iraw had no fly zones which were bombarded by US whenever a fly decided to take a crap in there.

So tell me how Iraq qould attack USA.
Ohh there're terrorists camps in Russia (100% confident) and alot of al queda is hiding in Pakistan. North Korea actually HAS NUKES, along with Pakistan, India, and China. why are they not attacked, for being bad boys? "cough" im mainly hinting at North Korea here "cough"

[Frosty]

becasue if we were there people would be asking, WHY ARE WE HHEREEE WAR IS WRONG FIND ANOTHER WAY why arent we in iraq or iran or north korea.

well for the what? 20th time now iraq had WMD let alone other things that ive listed about 20 times. WMD are Weapons of Mass Destruction. and there was enough there to obleterate Manhattan.


Way to totally avoid a direct answer. You should be a politician.

[Tsar]

yeah vetoing drilling oil in Anuar which would of lowered gas prices, that was good. umm giving our atm bomb secrets to china, another good thing, hooking up with intern, Great thing. um... a WTC attack in early 90s. oh the list is so big
1. dont care about gas, call me when it hits 5 dollars a gallon then we'll talk about high gas prices.
2. China IS a NUCLEAR capable nation, most of it was obtained from Russia.
3. Hooking up with a woman does not effect national security.
4. WTC was as much of Clintons fault as 9/11 was Bush's.


NEXT.

[BigAls87Z28]

The image of America durring the 8 years of Clinton in office was 8 years of peace and prosperity. Gas prices were very low, 89 cents a gallon from what I remember. Times were much nicer then, when the biggest problem we had was lying about a bj, not about 10 more 18 year old kids that were blown apart by an IED.

[Tsar]

Way to totally avoid a direct answer. You should be a politician.
yea he doesnt really answer anything, he just keeps restating the same thing aover and over again. Bush good, Iraq bad, terrorists - must wipe out all. ....silince...

[shane27]

Way to totally avoid a direct answer. You should be a politician.ok let me answer your question again.

becasue iraq was our biggest threat. you have to start somewhere.


um tsar, just because iraq had them didnt mean they were gonig to attack us from there. most of their bombs are sold on the black market. the black market is a market where illegal thnigs are sold! so when iraq sells these WMD. they now go into the hands of terrorists! these terrorists like to " terrorize" (you know blow up buildings, kill peeople, etc) do you remenber anything about Saddam Husseins threats to the US?

and what bogous theory? how many links to sources do you need man LOL

oh yeah i repeat things becasue people keep asking the same stupid questions. and i keep answering them and nooen gets it.

[jola]

All those who think in terms of the Treaty of Westphalia need to abandon that rigid structure and acknowledge the world in terms of fluid and stateless warfare. Iraq, as well as North Korea and every other state, can easily sell their weapons to any of the many willing non-state terrorist organizations.

[shane27]

the best part is you can search this thread for "Why are we in Iraq" and you will find answers. if you searched for "what we should be doing" or "what we should of done after 9/11" you wont find answers to that


im outta here, ill be back later to once again back up my argument of why were are fighting terrorists.

[Frosty]

becasue iraq was our biggest threat. you have to start somewhere.


The 2nd part of that statement is 100% correct. You DO have to start somewhere. At least you finally got something right, lol.

Also, drilling for oil will NOT lower our gas prices. Great, we can drill our own oil but the main problem is refineries, or lack thereof. You can blame the EPA for that one.

[johnjzjz]

becasue if we were there people would be asking, WHY ARE WE HHEREEE WAR IS WRONG FIND ANOTHER WAY why arent we in iraq or iran or north korea.

well for the what? 20th time now iraq had WMD let alone other things that ive listed about 20 times. WMD are Weapons of Mass Destruction. and there was enough there to obleterate Manhattan.


Some people want you to believe your head in the sand is the real deal, dont let them get to you, this state as well as 3 or 4 others are filled with left thinks bafoons, dont look at the problem bitch and it will go away like everything else in their life, you have stood up for what you believe, and you have to understand they see things through rose collored glasses, you as a clear thinking person will be taunted, because they dont agree , and they dont have any answers how to fix anything, just a piss and moan w/ i know better attatude send them this web site www.gofu$kyourself.com

[Frosty]

Some people want you to believe your head in the sand is the real deal, dont let them get to you, this state as well as 3 or 4 others are filled with left thinks bafoons, dont look at the problem bitch and it will go away like everything else in their life, you have stood up for what you believe, and you have to understand they see things through rose collored glasses, you as a clear thinking person will be taunted, because they dont agree , and they dont have any answers how to fix anything, just a piss and moan w/ i know better attatude send them this web site www.gofu$kyourself.com

Same could be said for someone that basically says the current administration can do no wrong which is a comical thought process.

What's wrong with asking questions? What's wrong with questioning what our leaders are doing? Just because someone blindly follows their political party doesn't make them smart, it makes them a ****ing sheep.

The fact is A LOT of ******** was spewed about the reason(s) for invading Iraq. I know bought them, I know I supported it 100% when it happened...and I still do however it still doesn't take away from the fact that a lot of the reasons were a crock of ****.

[Tsar]

becasue iraq was our biggest threat. you have to start somewhere.


um tsar, just because iraq had them didnt mean they were gonig to attack us from there. most of their bombs are sold on the black market. the black market is a market where illegal thnigs are sold! so when iraq sells these WMD. they now go into the hands of terrorists! these terrorists like to " terrorize" (you know blow up buildings, kill peeople, etc) do you remenber anything about Saddam Husseins threats to the US?

and what bogous theory? how many links to sources do you need man LOL

oh yeah i repeat things becasue people keep asking the same stupid questions. and i keep answering them and nooen gets it.No North Korea was and is a bigger threat, but you wont invade it.

Provide me one GOOD link, not some fox news crap. One time i read that Eminem died in a crash on Fox news... i dont believe news sites and media for a second... The only way i believe media is if i find the same information in different languages, beingable to read in three different languages FTW.

I know what black market is, and you clearly missed the part about no fly zone, that includes **** that drives on the ground. Also everything that was imported and exported out of Iraq was inspected for "dual purposes" such as constracting a bomd and such. History Channel FTMFW! Ohh and any normal person would buy **** from russian black market (cough military cough) not iraq, its way bigger son. But you dont know that :lol:

[Frosty]

You mean Russian sold/sells weapons illegally?

Get out of here!! ALL LIES! :lol:

[Tsar]

You mean Russian sold/sells weapons illegally?

Get out of here!! ALL LIES! :lol:
:werd: i didnt tell you that...they are watching us!

[jola]

No North Korea was and is a bigger threat, but you wont invade it.
Invade North Korea because they hate us and have nukes? Are you being serious? I understand your point about Iraq not being the biggest threat, but picking and choosing your battles also plays a role.

[jola]

Same could be said for someone that basically says the current administration can do no wrong which is a comical thought process.

What's wrong with asking questions? What's wrong with questioning what our leaders are doing? Just because someone blindly follows their political party doesn't make them smart, it makes them a ****ing sheep.

The fact is A LOT of ******** was spewed about the reason(s) for invading Iraq. I know bought them, I know I supported it 100% when it happened...and I still do however it still doesn't take away from the fact that a lot of the reasons were a crock of ****.
I agree with you and johnjzjz. I think you should stand up for what you believe is true and not back down when everyone starts ganging up on you. I also think there is deception and lying on both sides (left and right). If we had the full truth all the time, we wouldn't be here debating politics, would we? I won't profess to believe I know as much as the Department of Defense, nor will I claim I follow or leadership whole-heartidly, but they are none-the-less our leaders.

[Tsar]

Invade North Korea because they hate us and have nukes? Are you being serious? I understand your point about Iraq not being the biggest threat, but picking and choosing your battles also plays a role.
Did you forget about the whole "axis of evil" thing. Iraq, Iran and North Korea i believe? and no not just because they hate, but because accodring to USA its a Big no-no to have nukes without your permission. Oh and also the fact that they're blackmailing you for giving them what they want in order for them to stop developing more nuclear technology. I also seem to recall North Korea kicking out UN inspectors and such, wasnt that the reason the whole thing with Saddam started because he kicked them out? no?

Ohh and yes they do hate you, just like Iran, and Iraq do... You invaded Iraq, thinking about invading Iran (im sure you will if this thing with Hizbolah continues and they back it up) but you wont invade N.K. um..strange.

[johnjzjz]

Same could be said for someone that basically says the current administration can do no wrong which is a comical thought process.

What's wrong with asking questions? What's wrong with questioning what our leaders are doing? Just because someone blindly follows their political party doesn't make them smart, it makes them a ****ing sheep.

The fact is A LOT of ******** was spewed about the reason(s) for invading Iraq. I know bought them, I know I supported it 100% when it happened...and I still do however it still doesn't take away from the fact that a lot of the reasons were a crock of ****.


John Kerry, Teddy Kennedy, Harry Reid, John Murtha, Wesley Clark, Howard Dean, and those of your ilk, where were you when God created the world? Senator Hiram Johnson in a 1917 speech before the US Senate said, "The first casualty when war comes is truth."

I'm not speaking of George W. Bush or Dick Cheney; I refer to each of you and either your total sacrifice of integrity for the sake of political expedience, or maybe each of you has simply lost your mind, or just maybe you misplaced your testes. "Pull out of Iraq immediately," you decry, and most of you have visions of leading our country, especially in these years following the cowardly sneak attack of September 11, 2001.

You have got to be kidding! I would not follow any of you to a public undressing of Catherine Zeta-Jones, much less off to war. Whatever happened to the great statesmen of the democratic party, the John Kennedys, the FDRs, the Harry Trumans?

Wesley Clark, you are a retired Army general and John Murtha, a retired Marine colonel. Did you two completely forget our code of honor, supporting our troops, and tenacity in the face of adversity? Yes, you did, all for politics, which is empirically more important to you than the safety and psychological well-being of our fighting men and women from whose ranks you rose. How many men under your commands died, so you could betray their legacy of courage by talking about cutting and running in the midst of a war? Neither of you served with any more honor or courage than me, and I gladly will take you to the woodpile for your comments.

Ted Kennedy, you are quite simply a political pimp, who could not even get hired as a lifeguard away from Washington or your family's money and name.

John Kerry, if I had my way, you would be in prison for treason.

And Harry Reid and John Dean, all you two have to do is occasionally open your mouths and you save me the trouble of commenting on your actions.

How dare you! How dare you aid and abet the enemies of freedom, of democracy, of man's inherent right to live without oppression, because of your egomaniacal visions of being one of the great statesmen of our time! Believe me, your actions simply will make you a speck of dust in an unread history book, and a few quickly-forgotten public flashes while being devoured by the multi-headed, gluttonous network news monster.

If you really want to go down in history, become part of the solution, not the problem. You do not publicly say our President lied to go to war. You all know better, but every time one of you makes such ignorant statements, al-Zarqawi laughs and bin-Laden chuckles. Each one of you is one of the most effective weapons of our enemy in a time of war. They use you, with your obedient cooperation. Why? So you or more in your party get into office.

What a damnable reason to betray our troops! Hanoi taught our future enemies how to manipulate such a weapon decades ago, but people like you have forgotten all about "lessons-learned" in war. They got away with it with me in the Sixties, but you are not going to get away with it with my sons in harm's way.

Every time flies like you leave the manure-pile of Beltway strategizing and try to land on the exposed skin of the American public and leave your dung-covered tracks on the minds of innocent or misled Americans, I will be there with my fly-swatter.

And I am not alone. i dont trust any of them but who we have in place now is a far cry from who you might think ´nuff said jz

[jola]

Tsar~

Well, arguing from a purely common sense point of view, North Korea is a different situation, in part due to their better military and possesion of nuclear weapons. I don't really appreaciate your connection I suppose (I don't mean that in an offensive way). Allow me to illustrate what I think is your point in 2 extremes, one to the right, the other left: 1) Iraq contained WMD and war there is completely justified. Why not take over another country that also hates us? 2) Iraq was completely innocent, Saddam is a nice guy who actually uses his private money to sponsor orphanages. Why not attack North Korea instead?

I suppose I'm trying to combat your open-ended question on NK by driving the point that Iraq and North Korea are not interchangeable.

[BigAls87Z28]

How do you fix terrorism? You dont, it just happens. Thats like trying to stop drugs, or like having a War on Love. You dont stop it, there is no stopping it. You think that just cause we have all these troops in every spider whole in the middle east means that we arent going to be attacked?
You cant stop terrorism. Invading another country unprevoked aint helping the situation. Afganastan, ok I supported because there in fact were ties to Osama and direct links to other terrorist groups.
Iraq...Iraq is just a country ruled but a nasty dictator. They had camps...but so does Saudi Araba and Canada. I dont see M1A1's rolling down the streets of Ryiad or Quebec!!!
You can post all these things about what we thought there was in Iraq, but it turns out that the WMD was bogus. Not only was it bogus, but Bush and parts of the goverment knew that, but still pushed for war. So answer me this, one who has all of it figured out....why are we there? Dont say WMD, cause there arent any, and dont say Terrorist Training Camps, cause I know that there are camps all around the world.
They had to start somewhere, and they could have started in Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yeman, All sites of major terror attacks to the US and links to 9-11, but we picked Iraq because why? Zero link behind 9-11, zero link behind anything since they have been bottled up after Gull War 1. This is what we are trying to drill through your head and you just keep blabbing about how what we are doing is right.
There might be good things going on in Iraq, but they dont match the bad things.
Why would we drill in Alaska? See, maybe this is just me. Maybe its because Ive been out of the state of NJ, and outside of this country, but maybe you should realize what that would do? Now Im not a tree hugger, but you dont drill into the middle of one of the most beautiful lands in the world because of gas prices. There is plenty of oil, that is not the problem. Prices of the gas, IMO, is because the oil companies want to rake it in. Gas prices are high, but nothing compared to the rest of the world. Drilling for oil in Alaska isnt going to make it better or drop gas prices down to 150 a gallon.

[Tsar]

Tsar~

Well, arguing from a purely common sense point of view, North Korea is a different situation, in part due to their better military and possesion of nuclear weapons. I don't really appreaciate your connection I suppose (I don't mean that in an offensive way). Allow me to illustrate what I think is your point in 2 extremes, one to the right, the other left: 1) Iraq contained WMD and war there is completely justified. Why not take over another country that also hates us? 2) Iraq was completely innocent, Saddam is a nice guy who actually uses his private money to sponsor orphanages. Why not attack North Korea instead?
I suppose I'm trying to combat your open-ended question on NK by driving the point that Iraq and North Korea are not interchangeable.
Well im using Shanes logic here. So Iraq has WMDs and is a big bad wolf that hates USA and is gonna wipe them (US) out. Almighty Bush steps up to the plate and says

Bush- "no more Mr. Hussein, ill wipe your armies out with one swing of my magic stick, if you dont become my bitch and do as i say"
Saddam - "Suck my penis, your daddy couldnt do it and you wont beat me either"
Bush - "For the last time put the UN inspectors back in, or ill be forced to put on my robe and magic hat and pwn joo ass to infinity"
Saddam - "Suck my penis"

Meanwhile somewhere in far far east North Korea magically "develops" Nuclear technology.

Bush to NK guy - "cant do that Nukka"
NK guy - "i just did, what are you gonna do about it?"
Bush - "ill pwn joo with my allmighty wizard skills yo!"
*NK guy kicks out UN inpectors*
NK guy - "ohh yea? ill NUKE your ass! Give me food, money and whatever i demand and i might stop future develpment of nukes"
Bush - "ok..."

Back to Iraq.

Bush - "ok saddam let the pwnage begin"
Saddam - "Allah will pwn joo!" *hides in a spider hole*
Bush - *go me, neereer neeener neeener, i fooled americans, yay! i pwn all.*


thats how i see it. :shrug:

so its ok to north korea do what Iraq did and not get invaded, right? i mean they do have WMDs, they've threated you, and they did kick out those inspectors but yet no one does anything um...:scratch: Should we talk about Saudi Arabia now? "cough" thats where Hijackers were from, not iraq "cough" :lol:

[Tsar]

How do you fix terrorism? You dont, it just happens. Thats like trying to stop drugs, or like having a War on Love. You dont stop it, there is no stopping it. You think that just cause we have all these troops in every spider whole in the middle east means that we arent going to be attacked?
You cant stop terrorism. Invading another country unprevoked aint helping the situation. Afganastan, ok I supported because there in fact were ties to Osama and direct links to other terrorist groups.
Iraq...Iraq is just a country ruled but a nasty dictator. They had camps...but so does Saudi Araba and Canada. I dont see M1A1's rolling down the streets of Ryiad or Quebec!!!
You can post all these things about what we thought there was in Iraq, but it turns out that the WMD was bogus. Not only was it bogus, but Bush and parts of the goverment knew that, but still pushed for war. So answer me this, one who has all of it figured out....why are we there? Dont say WMD, cause there arent any, and dont say Terrorist Training Camps, cause I know that there are camps all around the world.
They had to start somewhere, and they could have started in Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yeman, All sites of major terror attacks to the US and links to 9-11, but we picked Iraq because why? Zero link behind 9-11, zero link behind anything since they have been bottled up after Gull War 1. This is what we are trying to drill through your head and you just keep blabbing about how what we are doing is right.
There might be good things going on in Iraq, but they dont match the bad things.
Why would we drill in Alaska? See, maybe this is just me. Maybe its because Ive been out of the state of NJ, and outside of this country, but maybe you should realize what that would do? Now Im not a tree hugger, but you dont drill into the middle of one of the most beautiful lands in the world because of gas prices. There is plenty of oil, that is not the problem. Prices of the gas, IMO, is because the oil companies want to rake it in. Gas prices are high, but nothing compared to the rest of the world. Drilling for oil in Alaska isnt going to make it better or drop gas prices down to 150 a gallon.
:werd: agreed with a big man

[jola]

How do you fix terrorism? You dont, it just happens. Thats like trying to stop drugs, or like having a War on Love. You dont stop it, there is no stopping it. You think that just cause we have all these troops in every spider whole in the middle east means that we arent going to be attacked?
You cant stop terrorism.
What a defeatist attitude! Cheer up! There is in fact a war on drugs, and personally, I believe terrorism should be approached with a similar "policing" mentality moreso then state militaries. True, there is no war to stop drugs, but there is a war to stop those who illegally produce, transport, and sell them. You cannot defeat terrorism, for it is an idea, or a method rather, but you CAN stop terrorists. That is why we must be ever vigilant. We may never put an end to all the anti-American terrorist organizations, but we may be able to save one more life, and that is worth it.

Edit: I just contradicted myself in my language of the war on drugs. I mean to say the war against the people responsible for the illegal drugs, not the physical chemicals themselves.

[Tsar]

What a defeatist attitude! Cheer up! There is in fact a war on drugs, and personally, I believe terrorism should be approached with a similar "policing" mentality moreso then state militaries. True, there is no war to stop drugs, but there is a war to stop those who illegally produce, transport, and sell them. You cannot defeat terrorism, for it is an idea, or a method rather, but you CAN stop terrorists. That is why we must be ever vigilant. We may never put an end to all the anti-American terrorist organizations, but we may be able to save one more life, and that is worth it.

Edit: I just contradicted myself in my language of the war on drugs. I mean to say the war against the people responsible for the illegal drugs, not the physical chemicals themselves.
no there's no way to stop it. it was always there and always be there. Just because it hasnt happen on you soil quite so often doesnt mean it wasnt there. Now you've experienced what other half of the world has to live with. The world welcomes you. Killing Pablo escobar didnt solve cocaine problem it only worsen it, he killed all the competition and now that he is dead its free for all, if i may say that. Killing on particular terrorist or a group will not change anything. You kill one, two more people who saw you do it will hate you now. Now instead of one terrorist you have 2, yay success.

[Frosty]

John Kerry, Teddy Kennedy, Harry Reid, John Murtha, Wesley Clark, Howard Dean, and those of your ilk, where were you when God created the world? Senator Hiram Johnson in a 1917 speech before the US Senate said, "The first casualty when war comes is truth."

I'm not speaking of George W. Bush or Dick Cheney; I refer to each of you and either your total sacrifice of integrity for the sake of political expedience, or maybe each of you has simply lost your mind, or just maybe you misplaced your testes. "Pull out of Iraq immediately," you decry, and most of you have visions of leading our country, especially in these years following the cowardly sneak attack of September 11, 2001.

You have got to be kidding! I would not follow any of you to a public undressing of Catherine Zeta-Jones, much less off to war. Whatever happened to the great statesmen of the democratic party, the John Kennedys, the FDRs, the Harry Trumans?

Wesley Clark, you are a retired Army general and John Murtha, a retired Marine colonel. Did you two completely forget our code of honor, supporting our troops, and tenacity in the face of adversity? Yes, you did, all for politics, which is empirically more important to you than the safety and psychological well-being of our fighting men and women from whose ranks you rose. How many men under your commands died, so you could betray their legacy of courage by talking about cutting and running in the midst of a war? Neither of you served with any more honor or courage than me, and I gladly will take you to the woodpile for your comments.

Ted Kennedy, you are quite simply a political pimp, who could not even get hired as a lifeguard away from Washington or your family's money and name.

John Kerry, if I had my way, you would be in prison for treason.

And Harry Reid and John Dean, all you two have to do is occasionally open your mouths and you save me the trouble of commenting on your actions.

How dare you! How dare you aid and abet the enemies of freedom, of democracy, of man's inherent right to live without oppression, because of your egomaniacal visions of being one of the great statesmen of our time! Believe me, your actions simply will make you a speck of dust in an unread history book, and a few quickly-forgotten public flashes while being devoured by the multi-headed, gluttonous network news monster.

If you really want to go down in history, become part of the solution, not the problem. You do not publicly say our President lied to go to war. You all know better, but every time one of you makes such ignorant statements, al-Zarqawi laughs and bin-Laden chuckles. Each one of you is one of the most effective weapons of our enemy in a time of war. They use you, with your obedient cooperation. Why? So you or more in your party get into office.

What a damnable reason to betray our troops! Hanoi taught our future enemies how to manipulate such a weapon decades ago, but people like you have forgotten all about "lessons-learned" in war. They got away with it with me in the Sixties, but you are not going to get away with it with my sons in harm's way.

Every time flies like you leave the manure-pile of Beltway strategizing and try to land on the exposed skin of the American public and leave your dung-covered tracks on the minds of innocent or misled Americans, I will be there with my fly-swatter.

And I am not alone. i dont trust any of them but who we have in place now is a far cry from who you might think ´nuff said jz


Um, dude...you went on this rambling thinking I'm a democrat. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I'm a conservative Republican myself, however it doesn't mean I can't question our government.

However now that I read the whole thing it makes sense :)

[jola]

no there's no way to stop it. it was always there and always be there. Just because it hasnt happen on you soil quite so often doesnt mean it wasnt there. Now you've experienced what other half of the world has to live with. The world welcomes you. Killing Pablo escobar didnt solve cocaine problem it only worsen it, he killed all the competition and now that he is dead its free for all, if i may say that. Killing on particular terrorist or a group will not change anything. You kill one, two more people who saw you do it will hate you now. Now instead of one terrorist you have 2, yay success.
I completely disagree. I look at it more as a crime then an act of war, first of all, since we are talking about non-state actors and war is traditionally defined within the realms of states. What you are saying is policing does not affect crime, and you cannot stop crime. Well, this is completely hypothetical, but I would bet my life that taking all the cops away would lead to an increase in crime. Doubling the number of cops would probably lessen crime. You will never be able to put an end to the idea of crime or terrorism, but you most certainly can stop terrorist acts from taking place.

[johnjzjz]

Osama's master plan is to destroy the United States, not because he dislikes us or we dislike him, dah but because we are the epitome of western values which are a threat to his followers' way of life. They intend to do this through control of energy, and the last time i looked we buy oil from them, which they believe enables everything we are. They believe we are morally weak and will not respond to our destruction. They cite the bombing of embassies, Kobar Towers, military installations, and the first World Trade Tower incident, about which we have done nothing but get protest in the past. The anti-war Liberal rallies play right into their hands, as they see we don't have the stomach to stop them. so to answer you dont have a any idea what you are talking about its not blood for oil dude its not we hate them or bush knew --- what ---- that clinton ended all our operations in the area it was a kinder way of doing things, so we end up with no way of knowing they were plaining this ( 911 ) ah yea that is what happened not a smoaking mirror the best guess WMDs did exist and probly were moved but that is not the point you are missing it totaly watching the liberal midea
its only a one side bend over news and you fall for it, the NY times owners at a different time in this countrys history would have been shot for what they did about reporting on watch the money jz

[Tsar]

I completely disagree. I look at it more as a crime then an act of war, first of all, since we are talking about non-state actors and war is traditionally defined within the realms of states. What you are saying is policing does not affect crime, and you cannot stop crime. Well, this is completely hypothetical, but I would bet my life that taking all the cops away would lead to an increase in crime. Doubling the number of cops would probably lessen crime. You will never be able to put an end to the idea of crime or terrorism, but you most certainly can stop terrorist acts from taking place.
no matter how many cops you put in a city there still will be crime. Utopia does NOT exist. and you dont have enough soldiers to police every person on the planet.

[jola]

no matter how many cops you put in a city there still will be crime. Utopia does NOT exist. and you dont have enough soldiers to police every person on the planet.
You can stop a number of crimes from happening though. 400 homicides isn't utopia, but it sure is better then 2000. 250 terrorist bombings is not utopia, but it sure is better then 1000 bombings.

[Tsar]

Depends on a scale of that particular terrorist attack. Whats the biggest one that stands out in your mind, 9/11 i bet. Now think small, maybe even another country? multiples, that only killed a few people? see its kinda hard..

Ohh and policing everyone wont work for another one simple fact, humans can be easily manipulated. greed, sex, and blackmail - will change anyones views if there's enough of it.

[shane27]

wow obviosuly almost noone is listening to anything logical said. **** this thread noone pays attention to ****

[Tsar]

you're the one who isnt listening to logic... i mean we get it, iraq cause 9/11 and were gonna attack United States if Bush didnt take immidiate action. blah blah blah... old news.

[shane27]

IRAQ DID NOT CAUSE 9/11, TERRORITS DID, AND THIS IS THE WAR AGAINT TERRORISM. WHEN UR AT WAR WITH TERRORITS YOU KILL TERRORITS, THESE TERRORISTS HAPPEN TO LIVE IN IRAQ. IRAQ HAD WMD. TERRORISTS USE WMD. see the logic here now? thats how things work.

bigals how were the WMD Bogus?!?!

[Tsar]

ahh crap i quit, its pointless. u win, i lose. Bush is good and all that crap...



i forgot that saying about arguing with idiots, so im out.

[shane27]

Dont say WMD, cause there arent any
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

but they dont exist because i dont want them to.

[Tsar]

FOX NEWS IS CRAP! how many times was it said? its like looking up how bad US is on al-jazeera...

[shane27]

FOX NEWS IS CRAP! how many times was it said? its like looking up how bad US is on al-jazeera...
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38213

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/18/hussein.tapes/index.html (where was clinton?)


are u gunna say CNN and worldnetdaily are "crap" too? they say iraq had WMD so they must be crap

[Ian]

IRAQ DID NOT CAUSE 9/11, TERRORITS DID, AND THIS IS THE WAR AGAINT TERRORISM. WHEN UR AT WAR WITH TERRORITS YOU KILL TERRORITS, THESE TERRORISTS HAPPEN TO LIVE IN IRAQ. IRAQ HAD WMD. TERRORISTS USE WMD. see the logic here now? thats how things work.

bigals how were the WMD Bogus?!?!

I said I was done, but I cant resist...

If terrorists use weapons of mass destruction, then all boeing 747's need to be banned from use. :roll:

terrorists use whatever is available. very rarely do they use large scale weapons. most of the time they use pipe bombs and vehicles. and if the terrorists live in Iraq, how come they are still around? we occupy Iraq now so in theory they should all be wiped out, correct?

[BigAls87Z28]

They were talking about massive amounts, stock piles of these wepons, ready to be used at a moments notice. Underground bunkers jammed with enriched platonium. I remember that Col. Powell sat in front of the UN and talked about these trailors that could make chem wepons, and I never saw anyone show us this. Yeah, we knew they had chem wepons cause they gased a few thousand Kurds in norther Iraq. They were talking bulks of wepons, from chem to atomic, just ready to go.

Yeah, we can fight the war on terror by stopping terrorists. Only problem is, anyone can be a terrorist. So what does that mean? Give up your civil liberties. Throw out The Constitution, disolve the court system. Lets just give all power to one man, and the military can police the country, and anyone that thinks out of line with what the dictator wants, they get thrown into camps and jails. Hey, that will keep terror down, right?
Trust me, if they want to, they will attack again. Its a matter of time till it happens again. It doesnt matter who's in the White House, they will continue to attack.
Anyway, Im done with this. Maybe Bush can pass an amendment that you can be voted into as many terms as possible, so that he can rule forever. If you opposed him, you must be a terrorist because only a terrorist wouldnt want that.

[Slow 88]

yeah those hunderds of WMD would of never been used towards the U.S even tho he was told to get rid of them by your precious UN years ago. and then lied about them later. nah iraq is no threat even tho for the 10TH TIME I HAVE TO SAY THIS. there were terrorist training camps, and WDM. i dont think CONGRESS wouldnt of passsed the war if we werent gonig there for a reason


Ok, apparently you didn't read one of my previous posts that there was training camps in Germany, so we should be there also too right?

[johnjzjz]

i have had first hand knowledge of hidding wepons and stockpiles, i was with the 101st in vietnam in 1968 / 1969, we ran all over the DMZ and the valley ( hamberger hill area ) - if the people ( the People ) are helping who you are fighting out of fear or loyality, you can find **** unless you trip over it, as it was their in nam, only buy luck did we ever find anything, the berka bunch want us dead and you dont get that, i know its bushes fault, to think you can ignore the real deal just shows how Naive you are and the Rhetoric about Fox news only goes to the point , being young gives you a pass, being in the USA gives you a pass, and thats what we as a people are all about, the only thing young guys who debate this sort of thing should be proud of themselves, they dont make personal attacs on each other like on CNN ( The Communist News Network ) or PMSMBC do every day fox is not the end all do all but they have both sides on ( BOTH SIDES ) on any issue that is being trashed about, its not a one way street and you are smarter than that, your not getting a fair shake only watching what the liberals want you to see and hear, but of course its bushes fault, look around the world is going buy and you have your head in the sand thats bushes fault as well jz

[johnjzjz]

i have had first hand knowledge of hidding wepons and stockpiles, i was with the 101st in vietnam in 1968 / 1969, we ran all over the DMZ and the valley ( hamberger hill area ) - if the people ( the People ) are helping who you are fighting out of fear or loyality, you can find **** unless you trip over it, as it was their in nam, only buy luck did we ever find anything, the berka bunch want us dead and you dont get that, i know its bushes fault, to think you can ignore the real deal just shows how Naive you are and the Rhetoric about Fox news only goes to the point , being young gives you a pass, being in the USA gives you a pass, and thats what we as a people are all about, the only thing young guys who debate this sort of thing should be proud of themselves, they dont make personal attacs on each other like on CNN ( The Communist News Network ) or PMSMBC do every day fox is not the end all do all but they have both sides on ( BOTH SIDES ) on any issue that is being trashed about, its not a one way street and you are smarter than that, your not getting a fair shake only watching what the liberals want you to see and hear, but of course its bushes fault, look around the world is going buy and you have your head in the sand thats bushes fault as well jz

[jola]

Boeing 747's are not weapons of mass destruction. Terrorists can use many things as weapons, but that doesn't mean they should be given better, deadlier weapons.

Saying another attack is going to happen anyways as a reason not to try and stop an attack is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Police work and military dictatorship are not the same thing. Agencies such as the FBI have stepped up participation in the war on terror, partly by increasing cooperation with other state's investigative agencies, yet I would hardly say I live under martial law, 24/7, without being allowed to go to the bathroom without permission.

But hey, maybe you guys are right. Lets go back to isolationism. Pull out all our troops and bring all our FBI, CIA, NSA, etc., agents back to the homeland. I mean, what's the use of intelligence? You can't stop attacks from happening.

[shane27]

Ok, apparently you didn't read one of my previous posts that there was training camps in Germany, so we should be there also too right?apperently you didnt read MY posts that said who gives a **** about germany. are they a danger at all? no. is iraq? yes. why is iraq a much larger threat, wellt he answer should be obvious, but since you cant figure that out, look through this thread. i must of said it about 100 times by now.

iraq is still a battleground, obviously. pulling out now can destroy all that we worked for. im sure when the time is right, we will pull out of iraq

[johnjzjz]

apperently you didnt read MY posts that said who gives a **** about germany. are they a danger at all? no. is iraq? yes. why is iraq a much larger threat, wellt he answer should be obvious, but since you cant figure that out, look through this thread. i must of said it about 100 times by now.

iraq is still a battleground, obviously. pulling out now can destroy all that we worked for. im sure when the time is right, we will pull out of iraq



Subject: Muslims, terrorist and the USA. A different spin on Iraq war.
>
>
>
> This WAR is for REAL
>
>
>
> To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is
> now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that
we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).
>
>
>
> The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are
very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who
realize what losing really means.
>
> First, let's examine a few basics:
>
> 1. When did the threat to us start?
>
> Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer as far as the United States
is concerned is 1979, 22 years prior to September 2001, with the following attacks on us:
>
>
>
> * Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
>
>
>
> * Beirut, Lebanon Embassy 1983;
>
>
>
> * Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
>
>
>
> * Lockerbie, Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York attack 1988;
>
>
>
> * First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
>
>
>
> * Dhahran, Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Military complex 1996;
>
>
>
> * Nairobi, Kenya US Embassy 1998;
>
>
>
> * Dares Salaam, Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
>
>
>
> * Aden, Yemen USS Cole 2000;
>
>
>
> * New York World Trade Center 2001;
>
>
>
> * Pentagon 2001.
>
>
>
> (Note that during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist
> attacks worldwide).
>
>
>
> 2. Why were we attacked?
>
>
>
> Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened
> during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton
and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats as there were
no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessors,


> Presidents Ford or Carter.
>
>
>
> 3. Who were the attackers?
>
> In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.
>
>
>
> 4. What is the Muslim population of the World?
>
> is a whopping 25%.
>
>
>
> 5. Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?
>
> Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the
> predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the
> dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no
> difference. You either went along with the administration or you were
> eliminated. There were 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for
> political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests)

>
> See for the web site : http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm (Mass extermination - to
> Purify Aryan blood - Louis L. Snyder's Historical guide)
>
>
>
> Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis, as
the six million holocaust Jews who were killed by them, and we seldom heard of
> anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world
> focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy about killing anyone who got in
his way of exterminating the Jews or of taking over the world - German,
> Christian or any others. Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the
> world on the US, but kill all in the way -- their own people or the
Spanish, French or anyone else. The point here is that just like the peaceful
> Germans were of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many
> peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the
> terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by
> their own pronouncements -- killing
>
> all of us ( "infidels." ) I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you
do if the choice was shut up or die?
>
>
>
> 6. So who are we at war with.
>
> There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the
> Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing
> this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't
> clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting. So with that
> background, now to the two major questions:
>
>
>
> 1. Can we lose this war?
>
>
>
> 2. What does losing really mean?
>
>
>
> If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions. We
can definitely lose this war, and as anomalous as it may sound, the major
reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the
> second question - What does losing mean? It would appear that a great
many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home and going on about our
business, like post-Vietnam. This is as far from the truth as one can get.
>
>
>
> What losing really means is:
>
>
>
> We would no longer be the premier country in the world. The attacks will
not subside, but rather will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead,
not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced
> an increasing series of attacks against us, over the past 18 years. The
> plan was clearly, for terrorist to attack us, until we were neutered and
> submissive to them. We would of course have no future support from other
> nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see, we
> are impotent and cannot help them. They will pick off the other
non-Muslim nations, one at a time. It will be increasingly easier for them. They
> already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or
wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq. Spain did it because the
Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops.
> Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.
>
>
>
> The next will probably be France. Our one hope on France is that they
might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished too, in
> that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may
> already be too late for France. France is already 20% Muslim and fading
> fast! If we lose the war, our production, income, exports and way of life
> will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with
us if they were threatened by the Muslims. If we can't stop the Muslims, how could anyone else?
>
>
>
> The Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are
> completely committed to winning, at any cost. We better know it too and be
> likewise committed to winning at any cost. Why do I go on at such lengths
> about the results of losing? Simple.
>
> Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put
100%
> of our thoughts and efforts into winning. And it is going to take that
100% effort to win.
>
>
>
> So, how can we lose the war?
>
>
>
> Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by "imploding." That is,
> defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose,
> and really digging in and lending full support to the war effort If we are
> united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided,
> there is no way that we can win! Let me give you a few examples of how we
> simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation.
>
>
>
> President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of transportation.
> Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between
> 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does
> that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? This is war! For the
> duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights we have
> become accustomed to. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently. And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We
> gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them
> after the victory and in fact added many more since then.
>
>
>
> Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him? No, I blame all
> for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness,
and all of our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful,
> honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.

> Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and / or the
> Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose

> I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because
> they just don't recognize what losing means. nevertheless, that conduct
> gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It
> concerns our friends, and it does great damage to our cause.
>
>
>
> Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media
> regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war, perhaps exemplifies best
> what I am saying. We have recently had an issue, involving the treatment
of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police.
> These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their
> own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues
> and otherwise murdering their own people just for disagreeing with Saddam
> Hussein. And just a few years ago these same type of prisoners chemically
> killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason that's right 400,000, They are also the
> same type of enemy fighters, who recently were burning Americans, and
> dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq. And still
more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all
> news sources internationally, the beheading of American prisoners they
held.
>
>
>
> Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for several days
> have thought and talked about nothing else but the "humiliating" of some
> Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses
> through the streets, not beheading them, but "humiliating" them.
>
>
>
> Can this be for real? The politicians and pundits have even talked of
> impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete
> lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life
and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.
>
>
>
> To bring our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner
> issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned --totally
> oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other
> country, can survive this internal strife. Again I say, this does not mean
> that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply
means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude, of the
situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing
> us, for many years. Remember, the Muslim terrorists' stated goal is to
kill all infidels!
>
>
>
> That translates into ALL non-Muslims -- not just in the United States, but
> throughout the world.
>
> We are the last bastion of defense. We have been criticized for many
years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid in at least one respect. We are
> arrogant in that we believe that we are so good, powerful and smart, that
we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that with both hands tied behind our back,
> we can defeat anything bad in the world! We can't! If we don't
recognize this, our nation as we know it will not survive, and no other free country
> in the world will survive if we are defeated.
>
>
>
> And finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow
> freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the
> press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any
> status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that
> contributes to the good of the world.
>
>
>
> This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or
we will be equated in the history books to the self-inflicted fall of the
Roman Empire. If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be
> written or read.
>
>
>
> If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims
take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase
the Muslim population of France and continue to encroach little by little, on
> the established French traditions. The French will be fighting among
> themselves, over what should or should not be done, which will continue to
> weaken them and keep them from any united resolve.
>
>
>
> Doesn't that sound eerily familiar? Democracies don't have their freedoms
> taken away from them external by some external military force. Instead,
they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece.
>
>
> And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide
> that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power.
>
>
>
> They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then
start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the
masses. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the
"peaceful Muslims"?
>
>
>
> I close on a hopeful note, by repeating what I said above. If we are
united there is no way that we can lose. I hope now after the election, the
> factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we
are in, and will unite to save our country. It is your future we are talking
> about! Do whatever you can to preserve it.
>
>
>
> After reading the above, we all must do this not only for ourselves, but
> our children, our grandchildren, and our country Whether
> Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal and that includes the
> politicians and media of our country and the free world! bah bah bah bah the morons will answer this watch jz

[V]

once more for my opinion... :willy: :fluffy:

[Savage_Messiah]

alright im sick of getting ****ing words put in my mouth for me. i wasnt disrepsectijng our soldiers at all wtf did u get that **** from. i know why the soldiers signed up. to PROTECT OUR COUNTRY. and what are they donig now? PROTECTING.

p.s Jola FTW
Without touching the BS past page 4, I'm gonna let you know something. Many, if not most, of them enlisted to help pay for college. Haven't you seen the commercials or anything?... Enlist, give us a weekend a month, and we'll pay for your whole college education. That's the reason many people are there... they live in poverty, may be the first in their family to go to college, and need money to pay for it... enlist as a reserve, go to training every month, and get their education paid for. But since now both the reserves and the national guard are in Iraq, they got dragged in too.

[Savage_Messiah]

apperently you didnt read MY posts that said who gives a **** about germany. are they a danger at all? no. is iraq? yes. why is iraq a much larger threat, wellt he answer should be obvious, but since you cant figure that out, look through this thread. i must of said it about 100 times by now.

iraq is still a battleground, obviously. pulling out now can destroy all that we worked for. im sure when the time is right, we will pull out of iraq

you say: We need to take out all the terrorists, so we need to strike the camps where they're trained.

Germany: has training camps.

You say: oh, that doesn't matter

Your IQ: less than the couch I am sitting on.

[shane27]

Without touching the BS past page 4, I'm gonna let you know something. Many, if not most, of them enlisted to help pay for college. Haven't you seen the commercials or anything?... Enlist, give us a weekend a month, and we'll pay for your whole college education. That's the reason many people are there... they live in poverty, may be the first in their family to go to college, and need money to pay for it... enlist as a reserve, go to training every month, and get their education paid for. But since now both the reserves and the national guard are in Iraq, they got dragged in too....:rofl:

[shane27]

you say: We need to take out all the terrorists, so we need to strike the camps where they're trained.

Germany: has training camps.

You say: oh, that doesn't matter

Your IQ: less than the couch I am sitting on. right becasue one trining camp in an allie country is alot more dangerous then wmd and saddam hussein. im sure if it was that bad then germany would take care of it themselves, if there is even trianign camps there. and thanks for beign a dick about it. its jsut a debate jeesus christ man


i have a question for everyone else now. what should we have done after september 11th. and what should we be doing now instead of being in iraq? please someone answer this

[Tsar]

i have a question for everyone else now. what should we have done after september 11th. and what should we be doing now instead of being in iraq? please someone answer this
after sep 11 u attacked afganistan and the world had no problems with that. i've stated that several times already. Iraq on the other hand had nothing to do with it.

[Ian]

right becasue one trining camp in an allie country is alot more dangerous then wmd and saddam hussein. im sure if it was that bad then germany would take care of it themselves, if there is even trianign camps there.

the terrorists that flew planes into the world trade center were based out of florida. No weapons of mass destruction, just box cutters and the will to take over a commercial airliner and fly it into a huge building. you'd think we would have done something about it :roll:

[1972LT1]

One thing that mant people forget. An American patriot warned us about Osama many years ago and people didn't listen. The mans name is Olliver North

[Tsar]

One thing that mant people forget. An American patriot warned us about Osama many years ago and people didn't listen. The mans name is Olliver North
Um..i wrote a paper BEFORE 9/11 about Bin Laden and a teacher gave me a lower grade cuz the subject "wasnt popular enough"


yes i knew about bin laden way before most people in this country... unfortunately.

[1972LT1]

If people had listened to Lt.Col. Oliver North this prick Bin Laden could have been "taken care of" long ago.

[Tsar]

If people had listened to Lt.Col. Oliver North this prick Bin Laden could have been "taken care of" long ago.
If you didnt help that prick in soviet-afgan war he most likely wouldnt be even here.
its biting you in the ass...

[Slow 88]

right becasue one trining camp in an allie country is alot more dangerous then wmd and saddam hussein. im sure if it was that bad then germany would take care of it themselves, if there is even trianign camps there. and thanks for beign a dick about it. its jsut a debate jeesus christ man


i have a question for everyone else now. what should we have done after september 11th. and what should we be doing now instead of being in iraq? please someone answer this

As a matter of fact Germany did take care of it.....Look this isn't a war against Iraq but it is against Al Qeada which is a little group not a WHOLE Friggin' country which they are not even from most of them anyway....So, we should just be looking for these little cells and taking them out one by one...I don't think that we should be holding a whole friggin' country hostage....Also, I know a couple of guys that just finally got out of that mess alive and basically THEY did not want to be there because you are sitting ducks at these checkpoints with your hands tied behind there backs!! This is a supposed war and at one checkpoint a couple of marines killed a few people because they didn't stop and then they were charged for killing civilians WTF....

[Tsar]

so i was bored, and i was gonna ask almightly shane, since he knows all about terrorism fighting, when are we gonna take care of some of these.

Abu Nidal Organization
Abu Sayyaf Group
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade
Ansar al-Islam
Armed Islamic Group
Asbat al-Ansar
Aum Shinrikyo
Basque Fatherland and Liberty
Communist Party of the Philippines/New People's Army
Continuity Irish Republican Army
Gama’a al-Islamiyya
HAMAS
Harakat ul-Mujahidin
Hizballah
Islamic Jihad Group
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan
Jaish-e-Mohammed
Jemaah Islamiya organization
al-Jihad
Kahane Chai
Kongra-Gel
Lashkar-e Tayyiba
Lashkar i Jhangvi
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam
Libyan Islamic Fighting Group
Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group
Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization
National Liberation Army
Palestine Liberation Front
Palestinian Islamic Jihad
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine
PFLP-General Command
al-Qa’ida
Real IRA
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia
Revolutionary Nuclei
Revolutionary Organization 17 November
Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front
Salafist Group for Call and Combat
Shining Path
Tanzim Qa'idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn
United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia

Those are pretty basic (i can surely find more), ill dumb it down for you if you want and tell you which country they are from if you so desire. But are we gonna fight them all, invade every country they operate in? If so, then you were right about WW3 cuz you'll invade, Europe, Asia, South America, and Africa. So go ahead and tell me that those dont matter either :lol:

[shane27]

i dont know all about fighting terrorizm, the only thing i know unlike most people here is why we are in iraq.

bin laden was on an episode of family guy before 9.11 btw

[Tsar]

ohh so no solution for all those groups i provided, wow im "suprised"

[Frosty]

i dont know all about fighting terrorizm, the only thing i know unlike most people here is why we are in iraq.


Classic. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Savage_Messiah]

...:rofl:

what's so funny about that?

[Frosty]

what's so funny about that?

What you said is definately reality but ANYONE that joins up for the armed services better prepare themselves for the possibility of fight, case closed. I'm sure there are a ton of of people that joined up thinking it would a cake walk, they'd get money for college and be done with it. While that sounds great they're fools if they didn' think of the threat of going to war.

[Ian]

i dont know all about fighting terrorizm, the only thing i know unlike most people here is why we are in iraq.

what are our troops doing right now at this moment? are they fightig terrorism? no. are they occupying and patrolling a nation? yes. the terrorists have fled Iraq, but instead of trying to find them, we are staying in Iraq. And dont feed me that BS line about WMD's because the govermnment is lying about that...it wouldn't be the first time the govermnment lied to the american people to follow through with their own agenda.

[Ian]

What you said is definately reality but ANYONE that joins up for the armed services better prepare themselves for the possibility of fight, case closed. I'm sure there are a ton of of people that joined up thinking it would a cake walk, they'd get money for college and be done with it. While that sounds great they're fools if they didn' think of the threat of going to war.

I also think some of it has to do with people in the national guard getting flow to the desert to fight along with soldiers serving, coming home for a month or two and going right back over there for another year or so.

[Frosty]

what are our troops doing right now at this moment? are they fightig terrorism? no. are they occupying and patrolling a nation? yes. the terrorists have fled Iraq, but instead of trying to find them, we are staying in Iraq. And dont feed me that BS line about WMD's because the govermnment is lying about that...it wouldn't be the first time the govermnment lied to the american people to follow through with their own agenda.

I wouldn't go THAT far man. There a quite a few special ops teams over there doing A LOT behind the scenes. Just because CNN doesn't report it doesn't mean it's not happening. ;)

[Frosty]

I also think some of it has to do with people in the national guard getting flow to the desert to fight along with soldiers serving, coming home for a month or two and going right back over there for another year or so.

I'm going to be honest on this point, I don't know much about that part so I can't really comment.

[jola]

For all those arguing with Shane, what solutions have you provided in the place of the present war and policing the world is involved in?

"If you didnt help that prick in soviet-afgan war he most likely wouldnt be even here.
its biting you in the ass..."
Yea, how come we weren't has wise and far-sighted as the Soviet Union? They know how to survive and stay united in this chaotic world.

[shane27]

what are our troops doing right now at this moment? are they fightig terrorism? no. are they occupying and patrolling a nation? yes. the terrorists have fled Iraq, but instead of trying to find them, we are staying in Iraq. And dont feed me that BS line about WMD's because the govermnment is lying about that...it wouldn't be the first time the govermnment lied to the american people to follow through with their own agenda.were finsihing our job and making sure we are doing it right. and please. stop trying to argue with facts. the fact is they had wmd. just because you dont want to believe they didnt , dosent change the FACT that they DID. what proof do you have saying the government made it up?

and no , no solution. do u look like a leader? am i the commander in chief? do i play any major role in the military? no so why would i have a solution to all that stuff you listed....

and i still have yet to hear about an alternate solution to what we are doing

[Tsar]

For all those arguing with Shane, what solutions have you provided in the place of the present war and policing the world is involved in?

"If you didnt help that prick in soviet-afgan war he most likely wouldnt be even here.
its biting you in the ass..."
Yea, how come we weren't has wise and far-sighted as the Soviet Union? They know how to survive and stay united in this chaotic world.

ehh? trying to make a funny here? You do know that the whole Bin Laden thing started after you sorta promised them help with rebuilding afganistan after the war and then just sorta left when Soviets pulled out? yea that wasnt nice, the rest is history. now they hate you and everything u stand for, the end.


Solution...well lets see. how about you should've stayed the **** out of Iraq and finish the job that you started in Afganistan before jumping the gun and invading some more countries? That's right you still got soldiers that are being shot at and killed in Afganistan or did you forget about that place because its not on CNN and FOX anymore?

[Tsar]

FACT: Blair addmitted on TV that it (wmd docs and all that jazz that bush was pushing) was ********...

[Frosty]

For all those arguing with Shane, what solutions have you provided in the place of the present war and policing the world is involved in?



I think we jumped the gun going into Iraq. We weren't finished in Afghanastan when we went into Iraq, I think that was a mistake. Granted I don't give a **** about the rest of the world and the UN but in an offensive like this it is/was important to gain a lot more support in the world. We're dealing with people that will always hate us due to their religious beliefs. You cannot fully fight that. I'm not saying we shouldn't be in Iraq, I'm not saying we shouldn't be in the Middle East but I think we jumped the gun. Also, I find it funny how it was "well Iraq has WMD's" and when no substantial stockpile was found it then was "Well Saddam was killing his own people". Regardless of what that FoxNews report says 500 degraded weapons was WAAAAY short of the figures our government was using regarding the number of stockpiled weapons. They were wrong in their intel information.

As far as policing the rest of the world? We're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't. We're wrong for going in and helping people(NOT talking about Iraq) and we're wrong for NOT helping in certain situations. Sometimes we can do no right :laugh:

There is no right answer though. We're fighting people that have hated us since Biblical times(and I don't mean the USA obviously). We could give each and every one a million dollars and they'll still hate us.

The only solution is to nuke them all!!!!!!!! LOL

[shane27]

FACT: Blair addmitted on TV that it (wmd docs and all that jazz that bush was pushing) was ********...um tony blair? when was this?
and frosty, although a substantial amount of WMD's WAS FOUND (thats a fact right there) ummm, i DO agree with your solution lololol

[Frosty]

were finsihing our job and making sure we are doing it right. and please. stop trying to argue with facts. the fact is they had wmd. just because you dont want to believe they didnt , dosent change the FACT that they DID. what proof do you have saying the government made it up?




...degraded mustard gas is HARDLY anything close to what our government was saying prior to going in. Is it great they found those stockpiles? Absolutely. Could they have been used against us? Perhaps. Is it enough to back up the government's rather large claim of massive amounts of weapons? IMO no it's not.

[shane27]

Also, I find it funny how it was "well Iraq has WMD's" and when no substantial stockpile was found

Is it great they found those stockpiles? Absolutely. Could they have been used against us? Perhaps.
make up your mind!!!1

[Tsar]

um tony blair? when was this?
and frosty, although a substantial amount of WMD's WAS FOUND (thats a fact right there) ummm, i DO agree with your solution lololol
Oh wow are you ****ting me? you've been talking all this crap and you even had no idea that Blair stood in front of British parlament several months after invasion of Iraq and said that he altered the mi6 facts, about the whole WMD thing. MI6 report stated that there was no evidence of WMDs in iraq. He then proceeded to say he was sorry to the head of MI6 and said that he will never tarnish their reputation again with any of his claims. Their scandal was compared to watergate one, i do hope you know what that is at least.

yea you should go and study a little bit more... just like some one said if its not on CNN doesnt mean it didnt happen. you must've missed the re-run.

[Frosty]

make up your mind!!!1

I said no SUBSTANTIAL stockpile was found. Big difference.

[Frosty]

and frosty, although a substantial amount of WMD's WAS FOUND (thats a fact right there) ummm, i DO agree with your solution lololol


:laugh: That'd probably be the only solution lol.

Again I don't really consider that amount of weapons are enough to justify an invasion. Think back to when they were trying to gain support man, they were saying massive amounts...500 isn't that much, especially degraded weapons. Like I said it's still great that they found them though.

[Tsar]

The only solution is to nuke them all!!!!!!!!
:rollseye:

[shane27]

Oh wow are you ****ting me? you've been talking all this crap and you even had no idea that Blair stood in front of British parlament several months after invasion of Iraq and said that he altered the mi6 facts, about the whole WMD thing. MI6 report stated that there was no evidence of WMDs in iraq. He then proceeded to say he was sorry to the head of MI6 and said that he will never tarnish their reputation again with any of his claims. Their scandal was compared to watergate one, i do hope you know what that is at least.

yea you should go and study a little bit more... just like some one said if its not on CNN doesnt mean it didnt happen. you must've missed the re-run.maybe you should study a little more. the info saying we found the WMD were only recently released. we found them in 03. and since he said that 7 months ago (if he even did im not sure) then what does that tell you

[Frosty]

:rollseye:

Nice way to not quote the "LOL" at the end of that statement ;)

[jola]

Frosty, I very much liked your post.

I think one of the major issues with Iraq was shaky intelligence with people in high places having questionable motives.

Tsar, I do not think bin Laden liked the West before America turned her back on Afghanistan. I think he was choosing the lesser of two evils at the moment, which was the USSR. Also, I don't really see "You should have stayed out" as a solution, but rather more like hindsight.

[Frosty]

maybe you should study a little more. the info saying we found the WMD were only recently released. we found them in 03. and since he said that 7 months ago (if he even did im not sure) then what does that tell you

Dude, maybe THAT report was justed released by FoxNews but it was reported that they found those weapons when they first found them. I know this for a fact because I remember reading it and discussing it with my boss at work.

[Frosty]

I think one of the major issues with Iraq was shaky intelligence with people in high places having questionable motives.



I totally agree.

[Tsar]

maybe you should study a little more. the info saying we found the WMD were only recently released. we found them in 03. and since he said that 7 months ago (if he even did im not sure) then what does that tell you
it tells me that everyone lied and had absolutely no reasons to invade a country. he sided the public with him only because he convinced them iraq had wmds and was a threat, just like bush.

[Tsar]

Frosty, I very much liked your post.

I think one of the major issues with Iraq was shaky intelligence with people in high places having questionable motives.

Tsar, I do not think bin Laden liked the West before America turned her back on Afghanistan. I think he was choosing the lesser of two evils at the moment, which was the USSR. Also, I don't really see "You should have stayed out" as a solution, but rather more like hindsight.
Um...yea he hated you alot and thats why he attended some university school in Britain :lol: they even had pics on the net :rofl:

[johnjzjz]

FACT: Blair addmitted on TV that it (wmd docs and all that jazz that bush was pushing) was ********...



they found 500 of thos WMDs sonny, but the communist news network dident report it so you wouldent know that, you and the others who to me dont have any idea whats going on, the place the USA has taken a stand against the scum is irak, and you dont get that, than whoever is in the way and wheir ever they happen to be get it now sonny, why dont you pick up a gun and defend the USA instead of bah bah bah you know better, ( WHAT ) you dont have an answer, as worldly as you are any red blooded american understands what i am saying, even if they dont like it they understand --- ( DO YOU ) jz

[Frosty]

John, they reported those weapons when it first happened, I still don't understand the confusion with that statement. Also, Blair did admit to knowing some information was fugded so to speak, again..what's the confusion. Both of those points are minor and really not that important.

[johnjzjz]

John, they reported those weapons when it first happened, I still don't understand the confusion with that statement. Also, Blair did admit to knowing some information was fugded so to speak, again..what's the confusion. Both of those points are minor and really not that important.



To read what some of these guys have written is un real how NAIVE is their thinking knowing their young is no excuse i was 19 in vietnam i had a clear understanding their were no frendlys not in a country at war with it self and others jz

[Tsar]

they found 500 of thos WMDs sonny, but the communist news network dident report it so you wouldent know that, you and the others who to me dont have any idea whats going on, the place the USA has taken a stand against the scum is irak, and you dont get that, than whoever is in the way and wheir ever they happen to be get it now sonny, why dont you pick up a gun and defend the USA instead of bah bah bah you know better, ( WHAT ) you dont have an answer, as worldly as you are any red blooded american understands what i am saying, even if they dont like it they understand --- ( DO YOU ) jz
dont ****ing call call me sonny, pal. Everyone is a scum to you, why dont you answer my question about what are you gonna do with the rest of the terrorist organizations that i posted. nothing? i thought so, go take your walker and dont break a hip.

[johnjzjz]

dont ****ing call call me sonny, pal. Everyone is a scum to you, why dont you answer my question about what are you gonna do with the rest of the terrorist organizations that i posted. nothing? i thought so, go take your walker and dont break a hip.


WOW THAT TRUTH IS A BITCH AND NO I WONT CALL YOU SONNY I AM NOT A LIBERAL THEY WOULD NEVER STOP THE TAUNTING LOVED THE LINE WITH THE WALKER WOW THAT WAS GREAT IAM 64 265 LBS WITH A 38 WAIST BEEN LIFTING AND IN SHAPE MOST OF MY LIFE WOW THE WALKER WAS GREAT BUT I WOULD RATHER INGAGUE YOU IN WHAT WOULD YOU DO THAN TRADE WOW WALKER HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA I NEED A MINUTE HAHAHAHHA JZ

[Tsar]

You failed to answer my question old man, dont clutter up this thread with useless personal information about yourself. No one cares how old you are or what your weight is.

What truth? 500 shells of mustard gas? **** i consder an AK a more of a WMD then that, it has sertainly killed more people over the years.

Oh caps lock FTL.

[jola]

Not that any American veteran needs defending, but this thread is turning away from a political debate into a monstrosity. John, I appreciate your sevice to our country and try not to let people who have never been to war and who are explaining to you how war should be get to your head.

Tsar, all he did was call you sonny. Respect isn't something given to me or you, since we are only 19 or 20. People often see us as immature and hot-blooded. Don't reinforce the stereotype, just debate the issue. You have some valid points.

[johnjzjz]

You failed to answer my question old man, dont clutter up this thread with useless personal information about yourself. No one cares how old you are or what your weight is.

What truth? 500 shells of mustard gas? **** i consder an AK a more of a WMD then that, it has sertainly killed more people over the years.

Oh caps lock FTL.


I CAN ATTEST TO AN AK 47 BEING A WWD YOU ARE CORRECT, AND I DID ANSWER YOU WE HAVE STARTED IN IRAK OVER THE NEXT 6 TO 10 YEARS OFF THIS CONFLICT YOU MIGHT BE CALLED TO ARMS AND THAT IS YOUR NOT UNDERSTANDING, AND THE NAME CALLING IS WATER ON A DUCKS BACK, and you are right we should do what give me one thing you would do different irak was the incorrect place to start so tell me ???/??///// jz