2010 Pontiac Firebird or GTO?

[LS1Hawk]

Just stumbled across this article on Car and Driver's website from this past June with a Pontiac communications director giving insight on a possible future muscle car for Pontiac...

Although it’s still unconfirmed at this point, Pontiac is pretty much guaranteed to get at least one muscle car from the prolific rear-drive Zeta platform (officially, Global Rear Wheel Drive Architecture) by 2010.

Full story: http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/13139/2010-pontiac-firebird-or-gto.html

[NJSPEEDER]

it is called the G8 for now. GM does have other ideas and related engineering projects in the works, but they are in a "wait and see" mode until some of the other high profile debutes make their splash.
do not expect an announcement or concept car before the '09 detroit auto show

(yes, i asked someone in the know about this already)

[Predator86]

ya the G8 is the same zeta platform as the camaro but with 4 doors basicly....i think they should just do what they did in 67....bring out the camaro,wait 6 monthes,release the bird

[mtnhopper1]

I'd say make a LS7 version of the G8 and call it GTO (a poor-man's CTS-V), then bring out a 2-door vehicle on the same platform to use as the firebird.

The firebird would definitely be more sports-car-ish and have pop-up headlights, though, to keep it distinct from the camaro... homage to the 3rd/4th gens. I'd say styling somewhere between the 4th gen firebird and the C6. ...or maybe those bug-eye headlights like on the C6.

[Untamed]

I still love the black/gold concept based on the Camaro concept with the dual headlights, shaker scoop and gold bird on the hood.

http://cache.jalopnik.com/cars/concept_Trans-am.jpg

[r0nin89]

That style works for a chicken much better.


When i get some money I'm getting an LS2 05/06 GTO...

[bandit88]

I still love the black/gold concept based on the Camaro concept with the dual headlights, shaker scoop and gold bird on the hood.

http://cache.jalopnik.com/cars/concept_Trans-am.jpg

:drool: :drool:
i wish they would come out with those.....

[DaSkinnyGuy]

I remember hearing a GM person talking about don't think that the firebird will never be back.

[WildBillyT]

I remember hearing a GM person talking about don't think that the firebird will never be back.

The quote was "The Firebird's time has come and gone" and they were basically saying it would never be back. Then again I'm sure they were saying that for years about the GTO.

Either way, it has been said that Pontiac is heading towards a BMW style of numbering: G5, G6, G8, etc. so chances are it wouldn't have a historic name.

Personally, I think Chevrolet should do their own G8 and call it a Chevelle.

[SteveR]

I still love the black/gold concept based on the Camaro concept with the dual headlights, shaker scoop and gold bird on the hood.

http://cache.jalopnik.com/cars/concept_Trans-am.jpg

I'd buy that!

And why the G-numbering thing? It's so impersonal and boring. How about giving it an actual name. BMW's is based on the series and motor and is pretty boring, same with Audi.

[WildBillyT]

I'd buy that!

And why the G-numbering thing? It's so impersonal and boring. How about giving it an actual name. BMW's is based on the series and motor and is pretty boring, same with Audi.

My ***** with the G numbering deal is that it kills the history behind Pontiac. Cars like Catalina, Tempest, Bonneville, etc are all better than G4, G6, blah blah. They at least get a reaction from the possible buyer/driver.

Think of it this way- based on name alone, which car would you be interested in- the Slug the C25, or the Raptor?

[SteveR]

My ***** with the G numbering deal is that it kills the history behind Pontiac. Cars like Catalina, Tempest, Bonneville, etc are all better than G4, G6, blah blah. They at least get a reaction from the possible buyer/driver.

Think of it this way- based on name alone, which car would you be interested in- the Slug the C25, or the Raptor?

Raptor! :D

I agree, the names really helps connect the buyer to the car.

[BonzoHansen]

...and have pop-up headlights, though, to keep it distinct from the camaro... :nono: No one needs roof flaps on their hood. :lol:

[NJSPEEDER]

there is a reason GM is not currently considering a firebird rebirth. no need to raise costs to fight against your own market share.
face it, the mustang will have x number of buyers, the new dodge stuff will have y number of buyers, and the new gm rear drive stuff will have z number fo buyers.
to make another sports car on the same platform you increase production lines costs dramatically and there is no historical or theoretical evidence that the sales stolen from groups x and y will offset the new found costs levels in group z.
yes, it would be cool if they did it. i jsut don't see how any businessman in their right mind would even consider it.
and for god's sake, would everyone please stop saying that sawed off wanna be second gen photochop is a cool look firebird. the only company that goes after styling like that is tonka!! the platform was built up to look like a first gen camaro, the pontiac alternative shoudl look like a 69 firebird :) lol

[SteveR]

If they made another Firebird, I wouldn't be saving up for a new Challenger.

[mtnhopper1]

yes, it would be cool if they did it. i jsut don't see how any businessman in their right mind would even consider it.

Sadly, I think you're right.


and for god's sake, would everyone please stop saying that sawed off wanna be second gen photochop is a cool look firebird. the only company that goes after styling like that is tonka!! the platform was built up to look like a first gen camaro, the pontiac alternative shoudl look like a 69 firebird :) lol.

how about the sawed off photochop in the top right corner? '69 T/A anyone?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Sixty8panther/2009_Pontiac_Firebird_TransAm_Conce.jpg

[LS1Hawk]

My ***** with the G numbering deal is that it kills the history behind Pontiac. Cars like Catalina, Tempest, Bonneville, etc are all better than G4, G6, blah blah. They at least get a reaction from the possible buyer/driver.

I've been saying that from the beginning. There's no personality behind a letter and a number. And does the "G" actually stand for anything?

When I met Jim Wangers last year, I asked him what he thought about Pontiac getting rid of their nameplates for the G# names. He simply put on an angry face and said, "Don't get me started."

[Predator86]

I've been saying that from the beginning. There's no personality behind a letter and a number. And does the "G" actually stand for anything?

When I met Jim Wangers last year, I asked him what he thought about Pontiac getting rid of their nameplates for the G# names. He simply put on an angry face and said, "Don't get me started."

ive heard that pontiacs gonna try to compete with BMW so perhaps the reason behind all the Gs is to try and crush all the Ms

[SteveR]

ive heard that pontiacs gonna try to compete with BMW so perhaps the reason behind all the Gs is to try and crush all the Ms

LOL if the G6 is any indication of Pontiac's ability to compete with BMW, I'm selling off all my GM stock tomorrow :rofl:

[Predator86]

LOL if the G6 is any indication of Pontiac's ability to compete with BMW, I'm selling off all my GM stock tomorrow :rofl:

lol

still i think the G8s gonna raise the bar and then they can build from there

[BigAls87Z28]

The BMW comment was made by Lutz when he first stepped into GM. Since he walked in, he has pushed to make Pontiac a performance oriented division. Moving away from the fancy scooped rebadged Chevy's, to a true RWD design.
The new Alpha chassis will underpin most of its new cars, including a G6 replacement. Now, Pontiac will not directly compete with BMW. But it will go after the same type of mentality, driving performance and handling. Not just V8's in a RWD chassis, you will see Ecotecs and V6's mostly, pumping out good power for a small agile car.
The GTO and G8, and Solstice are some ways that Lutz has tried to make this happy asap without waiting for a new chassis, which wont arive till 2013.

GM will be making larger RWD cars like the G8 soon in Oshawa, and Camaro will be first to run down the line. Eventually there will be other RWD cars built off the Zeta platform that will work right along side Camaro. There will also be 2 larger RWD cars built along side the CTS, one the Buick Park Ave and the replacement for the Caddy STS/DTS.

As for Firebird, wont ever happen. Like Tim said, GM is not going to eat into its own dollars to market 2 niche cars. 40 years ago, when the market couldnt get enough of performance muscle and pony cars, they could work the 2 to gain as much market share as possible. But now, the market is very small, very small. Mustang sales are down month after month. Everyone talks about that it was the Mustang that saved the Camaro. If that was the case, then the people inside GM are stupid. The new Mustang didnt have any great success. It was just talked about a lot because of its design, thats all. If you look back at every single launch of a new Mustang, or any car with a large following, there is always a first year spike. Im sure that GM will sell ever Camaro produced in its first year or two. But just like the Mustang, like the Solstice, like every other performance enthusiast car, after everyone has thiers, the boom is over. Its at that point for GM to figure out how to keep sales up. GM will have the luxury of building other cars along side Camaro so that it can share the burden and spread the costs out.

[SteveR]

Al, your insight is always impressive. Do you think they'll ever do another larger RWD car that'll be like the old Impalas from the 60's? I know they tried the Caddy CTS-V, but not sure how successful it was.

I know with the Mustang right now they're trying to make a lot of limited production versions and higher HP versions as well to appeal to a few more people. The one I dont really understand is the Saleen Extreme. Who would buy a $91,000 Mustang?

[BigAls87Z28]

Al, your insight is always impressive. Do you think they'll ever do another larger RWD car that'll be like the old Impalas from the 60's? I know they tried the Caddy CTS-V, but not sure how successful it was.

I know with the Mustang right now they're trying to make a lot of limited production versions and higher HP versions as well to appeal to a few more people. The one I dont really understand is the Saleen Extreme. Who would buy a $91,000 Mustang?

Thank you almighty one.

A larger RWD car is available on the WM chassis, which is what Holden calls the Long wheel base version of VE. The WM chassis or LWB Zeta, will be the basis for the STS/DTS replacement, and the Park Ave. If you go to Holden's website, you can see the Statesman/Caprice model, and that car is BIG. It would be on par with the B body Caprice/Impala of the 90's, only wheel base longer, and handling on top of quality are amzing.

CTS-V is still a midsized sedan/ full size, and the STS is big but not that much bigger. I dont think we will see Pontiac with that large of a car, but Buick, that shares the same showroom space, will as well as Caddy. Chevy might or might not get a version of the LWB, we will see. There is more to that story then I can type right now.

[Predator86]

american cars need to start getting smaller. I love the muscle cars but we still gotta evolve and make that torque more effective

[edpontiac91]

My ***** with the G numbering deal is that it kills the history behind Pontiac. Cars like Catalina, Tempest, Bonneville, etc are all better than G4, G6, blah blah. They at least get a reaction from the possible buyer/driver.

Think of it this way- based on name alone, which car would you be interested in- the Slug the C25, or the Raptor?

Remember in the '80's it was the T1000(Vega)2000 (Sunbird) 6000 (STE or Lumina). Pontiac tried these numbers for a few years and gave up on the idea back then. Doesn't a G6 sound a "LOT" more exciting then GRAND AM, or the G8 then the GRAND PRIX. What the hell are they thinking. Maybe the new bird will be called the GeeWiz! :moon:

[Untamed]

I would also prefer a 'bird over a Camaro. But that's just not going to happen. GM would be stupid to launch another product that competes with itself; and as it was already pointed out, some reorganization / new missions are being assigned the various makes. Cut back on the amount of overlap, and retarget some of the brands. A good example of remarketing is Cadillac.

For me, I'm taking a "wait and see" attitude as well for the new Camaro. Its as much a financial decision as a glimmer of hope that after the 3rd or 4th model year of the Camaro, Pontiac may jump into something like a GTO again (upgraded model of the G8?). I'll be torn between the Camaro and whatever muscle comes out of Pontiac.

[Predator86]

but now that i think about it....wouldnt putting out a firebird as well increase profits for general motors..

imo you would cover more of the market and grab both the chevy and pontiac loyalists...unless the cost of the production out weighs the money earned from potential buyers

[Tru2Chevy]

...unless the cost of the production out weighs the money earned from potential buyers

Exactly......a Firebird would add to production & advertising costs, as well as cut into the sales of the Camaro.

- Justin