Young drivers kill each other a lot....

[LTb1ow]

So much that they now are getting decals to put on liscense plates. :shock:

Was reading the article in the paper today about it, some scary statistics. :cry:

Anyways, I was just wondering if anyone knew more about the program? I have a younger sibling and was curious about how the state will determine which car or cars the sticker(s) will need to be on?

[Mike]

other countries do this, you know some of the hot air baloon looking stickers that ricers put on their cars? the different colors symbolize driver experience levels, and it lets other people on the road know who is around them.......

its also like the "rookie stripe" in nascar and some other racing, lets people know that they are coming up on a driver that maybe is in over his head.

i didnt read the article so i dont know the states plan, but i dont think any plan that can warn drivers and potentially lower our insane insurance rates is a bad idea.

[LTb1ow]

Never said it was a bad idea, just wondering how the state will determine which cars need to have a sticker. My parents have 5 cars including mine on the driveway, will they all need stickers even if my car is in my name? I am just assuming they will pull the same game the insurance company does, if the car is there it can be assumed anyone can drive it.

Just curious.

[Mike]

your probably right, any car on the policy that the young driver might need it...

[LTb1ow]

Hmmn, I guess I will have to wait and see what happens.


I am really just afraid that if made to have the sticker on my car, it will get me more un wanted attention than I already have.

[NJ Torque]

...your how old?

[NJ Torque]

New drivers in Japan

http://www.anythingbutcoffee.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/jdm-soshinoya-new-driver-badges-large-300x199.jpg

Elderly drivers in Japan

http://www.anythingbutcoffee.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/jdm-koleshiya-elder-driver-badges-large-300x199.jpg

[LTb1ow]

21, why?

[Mike]

doesn't matter, in our stupid ass state, they consider everyone in the household as on the policy, whether they drive the car or not. even if he got his own insurance he would have to notify them of driving aged siblings in the house.

i am eligible for njm, but since my father and sister have been in accidents in the last three years, they wont give me a policy until i move out......its pretty much the same thing as what this sticker thing would mean

[Mike]

New drivers in Japan

http://www.anythingbutcoffee.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/jdm-soshinoya-new-driver-badges-large-300x199.jpg

Elderly drivers in Japan

http://www.anythingbutcoffee.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/jdm-koleshiya-elder-driver-badges-large-300x199.jpg

that is precisely what i was referring to, thanks

[LTb1ow]

I am just not liking the thought of having to label my car as a "young driver". Already paranoid as hell when I drive my blue bomb. Arg.

[Mike]

that's true.....maybe something as simple as a license plate frame or body colored vinyl to cover it up once it passes inspection?

[KirkEvil]

little pink hearts would look cute on your LT1

[LTb1ow]

Same with your catfish fool....

And yea, I was thinking that since my younger sibling and or my family for that matter refuses to drive my car.... lol

[Mike]

if you think about it, it probably wouldn't increase issues with the police, considering the thousands of cars that would need it. parents, siblings, and anyone in the household will have it just because of the insurance policy, and after a few weeks of pulling over 40-50 year old men because of a sticker saying they are 17 and the police will just give up on it......

[LTb1ow]

Yea, that is what kinda makes me think the state would have thought of a solution to that, but then again its the state and emotional mothers, sooo I doubt it.

[ar0ck]

They just updated the drivers licenses in New Jersey. From what I gathered from my students, is permit at 16 still, but you can't drive at night and that also carries over into the 17yr old GDL you have to be driving with another licensed driver at night.

Also they are updating the motorcycle licenses sometime this year to a class A & B

[Mike]

stupid, not letting people drive with their parents at night on their permits, will create a lot of people that cant properly drive at night......

[sweetbmxrider]

i think it will be a bumper sticker with the how is my driving thing goin on. it will have a code and phone number and you can report the car, only if you are using hands free dialing or pull over :wink:

its a good idea but has its draw backs like you guys said. we will see how it goes. glad its not my car :)

the whole insurance policy household **** is what makes me pay for my policy even though i can't drive. let the law handle the mishaps, Mr. Insurance Man :-x

edit: you currently can't drive at night with a GDL. also, only one other passenger that does not live in your household. the licensed driver must have 3 years of driving experience for you to drive with them on a permit.

[BonzoHansen]

Graduated licenses are good, now they need to enforce them. Last I read it's a secondary offense so cops can't pull a group of kids over simply because there is a kid driving when he is not supposed to be (late night, car full of kids, etc).

Every time I've looked at per mile crash stats, it's like this:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8075/drivers.jpg

I don't have actual stats handy right now, so I paraphrased what I have read.

that is why policies skyrocket when driving aged kids are around. The numbers are staggering. I had fun with the wording, but the graph is on the money.

[CHRIS67]

^^^^^ :funny:

[Mike]

i think it will be a bumper sticker with the how is my driving thing goin on. it will have a code and phone number and you can report the car, only if you are using hands free dialing or pull over :wink:

its a good idea but has its draw backs like you guys said. we will see how it goes. glad its not my car :)

the whole insurance policy household **** is what makes me pay for my policy even though i can't drive. let the law handle the mishaps, Mr. Insurance Man :-x

edit: you currently can't drive at night with a GDL. also, only one other passenger that does not live in your household. the licensed driver must have 3 years of driving experience for you to drive with them on a permit.

woooooooot ill use my onstar phone to report everyone

[Dilley]

yeah i never understood that whole if there is someone in the household that has a license they have to be on the insurance in which case i think is crap because i have never driven my dads truck and never will be allowed ever so why should i have to pay insurance on that vehicle for me

[maroman88]

i heard they would use a velco type decal that has to be placed on each car WHEN its driven by the GDL driver.

also new to the GDL i think they're moving the times slightly, from midnite to 1130pm or sumthin retarted

[BurninrubberGT]

they are changing a lot for 16/17 yr olds, saw it on facebook...somethings make sense, but some stuff is just overkill...what they should do is require everyone to take the road course once every 2 years to get all the older idiots off the road

thank god im 18 :D

here is the list of things i found-

The proposed amendments included in this bill, can be found below...


· Require that the parent or guardian of a person under the age of 18 receive an informational brochure which clearly sets forth the special rules that apply to a holder of an examination permit or a provisional license.

· Require the chief administrator to issue an orange hang tag/sticker to be displayed when a vehicle is being driven by the holder of a provisional license.

· Require that an applicant for a provisional license wait one year after obtaining a learner’s permit before being issued a provisional license.

· Change the threshold for mandatory license suspension from two or more motor vehicle offenses to any motor vehicle offense.

· Take away the right to plea bargaining in court when issued a ticket that would give a teen driver 1 infraction point on their license.

· Increase the mandatory license suspension from three months to five months.

[NastyEllEssWon]

i think they would make this like the static stickers that they use for those breast cancer awareness and Carpool (hov) lane stickers for hybrids.


http://www.toyota.com/html/hybridsynergyview/2005/fall/images/i_perks.jpg




also i think this would be a great idea. ticket the hell out of kids that take the sticker off too.

[BurninrubberGT]

also i think this would be a great idea. ticket the hell out of kids that take the sticker off too.

the kids that arent running front plates get 2 tickets now :rofl:

and thats 6 months suspended license too i think

[Mike]

yeah i never understood that whole if there is someone in the household that has a license they have to be on the insurance in which case i think is crap because i have never driven my dads truck and never will be allowed ever so why should i have to pay insurance on that vehicle for me

you don't pay, he pays a little more because you are a licensed driver in the household. insurance companies don't care that daddy wont let his daughter or son drive his car. they just care that they could sneak it out one night and smack it up

[Dilley]

you don't pay, he pays a little more because you are a licensed driver in the household. insurance companies don't care that daddy wont let his daughter or son drive his car. they just care that they could sneak it out one night and smack it up

i understand i don't exactly pay but that little bit more that my dad gets charged i have to pay and i guess it makes sense just in my case if i ever drove his truck id be thrown out and disowned so fast

[Mike]

right, but kids take their parent **** out all the time. and the companies know that.

[BonzoHansen]

and statistics prove that...plus people lie to the insurance companies. Sure, my kid doesn't drive my car, sure.


BTW, they are going hard after kids 1st because they don't vote or really pay taxes like the 65+ up AARP crowd. Once the kid laws are firmly in place then the AARP has less of an argument for cracking down on the older drivers. Politics matter, and the stats bear out the actions.

[xrelapse13]

im curious to see how this will actually work. so happy im 18. But damn, no plea bargains anymore?

[cdacda13]

and statistics prove that...plus people lie to the insurance companies. Sure, my kid doesn't drive my car, sure.


That's because insurance is so damn high. On every car I've owned, I've had my parents listed as the primary drivers. (And on the Firebird and Camaro, it was listed as a 'pleasure' vehicle)
I'm listed as the driver of the family's mini-van and it keeps my insurance reasonable.

[Mike]

That's because insurance is so damn high. On every car I've owned, I've had my parents listed as the primary drivers. (And on the Firebird and Camaro, it was listed as a 'pleasure' vehicle)
I'm listed as the driver of the family's mini-van and it keeps my insurance reasonable.

then you should.

A. not complain about what the companies/state do

or

B. live within your means and buy a car you can afford to have yourself listed as its owner

[LTb1ow]

Just re read this, and nice Bonzo. Very nice. lol

[Dilley]

and statistics prove that...plus people lie to the insurance companies. Sure, my kid doesn't drive my car, sure.


good call i guess its not cheap to follow the rules

[LTb1ow]

I pay 650 every 6 months and I am primary on my Z. Dunno, that ain't much if you have a job.

[Dilley]

I pay 650 every 6 months and I am primary on my Z. Dunno, that ain't much if you have a job.

that isnt bad at all

[WildBillyT]

I pay 650 every 6 months and I am primary on my Z. Dunno, that ain't much if you have a job.

For what type of coverage? Not a shot at you but not all insurance is the same. If it's liability only and you crack up your own ****, well there you go. Cheap insurance does not necessarily mean bad coverage all the time, but it does mean it a lot of the time.

[sweetbmxrider]

the kids that arent running front plates get 2 tickets now :rofl:

and thats 6 months suspended license too i think

how so? that wont stand in court.

i pay 4k/yr for a car i can't drive

i don't have an accident on record :moon:

i am SO glad i'm over 18, i would have been royally ****ed when i first started driving but i probably would have learned much faster.

i'm all for this though, some new drivers are ****ing dumb.

[LTb1ow]

For what type of coverage? Not a shot at you but not all insurance is the same. If it's liability only and you crack up your own ****, well there you go. Cheap insurance does not necessarily mean bad coverage all the time, but it does mean it a lot of the time.

1000 deductible, and basic coverage. If the car is in an accident it is safe to say I am buying it back. Or just not claiming it. But yea, insurances are not all the same. I actually need to start looking for a new one, gotta get my parents out of the liability loop.

[sweetbmxrider]

1000k deductible :scratch:

[LTb1ow]

What?

[WildBillyT]

What?

You have a $1000 deductible from what it looks like. Not $1,000,000 (1000k) deductible.

[LTb1ow]

Yup, that tricycle rider must be on something, 1000k, geez.....

[sweetbmxrider]

i just went to esurance to get a quote, well actually first i went to thegeneral.com and they don't offer coverage here. so ya esurance wanted me to list 1 by 1 any major violations of the last 5 years and any minor of the last 3. yeah i have like 15 or more. the driver abstract only shows 40 most recent histories and shows bs stuff inbetween everything. so i gave up

[Clark]

Ireland:


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00468/18OL-IRELAND-L-PLAT_468279a.jpg



I totally agree with this. It might just bring some of these kids back down to earth and remind them constantly that they are new at driving and they lack the experience to ridiculously whip around a 3500lb piece of steel, not to mention inform other drivers in a close proximity to be cautious.

[L695speed]

I was going to say that for insurance (I just went for a qoute for the 84 TA), for me as a 22 year old and no driving record, it was 61 a month. With me as the primary and my name on the title. It moves out of the "idiot" category when you turn 23. So the rate might go down a bit. I asked about the collision thing, the car is too old to do that. Besides if I do somehow wreck it I am rebuilding it....read my intro story to see why.

[79CamaroDiva]

I was going to say that for insurance (I just went for a qoute for the 84 TA), for me as a 22 year old and no driving record, it was 61 a month. With me as the primary and my name on the title. It moves out of the "idiot" category when you turn 23. So the rate might go down a bit. I asked about the collision thing, the car is too old to do that. Besides if I do somehow wreck it I am rebuilding it....read my intro story to see why.

I think you're not fully out of the idiot category until you're 26

[L695speed]

I think you're not fully out of the idiot category until you're 26

I think it depends on the carrier. I was told that the insurance was not going to be as high if I owned my car at 23 than it would be at 22. And I specifically asked that question though I probably didn't use the terms "idiot category."

[Mike]

most carriers give you a price reduction at 23, but your not out of the category until 26. my rates went down a couple years ago, but its still a joke until november when they drop again

[DaSkinnyGuy]

nice so you get a rank its like playing a video game and if you cant drive well you stay a noob is what should happen

[Clark]

nice so you get a rank its like playing a video game and if you cant drive well you stay a noob is what should happen

Driver XP points ftw!

[91chevywt]

Shouldn't the state be concentrating more on the budget than making NJ's strict GDL program more strict?? How much of my/our money are they going to spend on this?

[WildBillyT]

Shouldn't the state be concentrating more on the budget than making NJ's strict GDL program more strict?? How much of my/our money are they going to spend on this?

It's a high profile problem so it's getting addressed now. Not saying that it's an IMPORTANT problem, but it's high profile.

[LTb1ow]

Yup, and again, its really a failure of parental responsibility and instilling some sense of responsiblitiy in teenagers.

[Featherburner]

Yup, and again, its really a failure of parental responsibility and instilling some sense of responsiblitiy in teenagers.

Horsecrap! You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him responsible.

[LTb1ow]

I beg to differ.

Making a kid pay for his car will make him respect it more than if mommy/daddy give him a set of wheels.

But, on the flip side, you put more than more teenager together in a car and all bets off.

[Featherburner]

I beg to differ.

Making a kid pay for his car will make him respect it more than if mommy/daddy give him a set of wheels.

But, on the flip side, you put more than more teenager together in a car and all bets off.Begging wont make you right. :lol: I bought my car, paid my insurance, bought my gas and made all my repairs. My parents were the model of responsibility. Let's just say I was less than a responsible driver well into my 20's. It was a different time and atmosphere but still...

[LTb1ow]

I know, I just refuse to accept that kids these days are worse drivers than earlier.

IDK, I mean how the hell do some of these kids manage to cause the accidents they get in? Like wtf where they doing?

[NastyEllEssWon]

i was forced to buy my own car, wait till i was 18 to register and insure it myself and by that time all the work i put in doing all that it wasnt really worth it to me to go cruising around causing ruckus and that was in my first 86 camaro 305.



moral of the story.


if i didnt have to put in all the hard work to get the car i wouldnt have appreciated it as much and in turn wouldve probably beaten the living hell out of the car or worse....crashing

[baddest434]

I know, I just refuse to accept that kids these days are worse drivers than earlier.

IDK, I mean how the hell do some of these kids manage to cause the accidents they get in? Like wtf where they doing?

kids are worse nowadays then they were years ago. why? years ago not everyone had a cell phone to talk or text while they were driving and the fast and the furious was'nt out yet. i blame it all on those F&F movies.

[LTb1ow]

kids are worse nowadays then they were years ago. why? years ago not everyone had a cell phone to talk or text while they were driving and the fast and the furious was'nt out yet. i blame it all on those F&F movies.


Noooo, not every little kiddie drives a sweet civic. :wink:

But I see your point, lots of added things to mess with...

[Mike]

cd's, dvd's, cell phones, more congestion, less care given in drivers education, nicer/faster cars at more accessible prices. lots of factors

[LTb1ow]

Well I hope this "sticker" idea helps out, tired of reading of teenage drivers killing car loads of kids.

[79CamaroDiva]

moral of the story.


if i didnt have to put in all the hard work to get the car i wouldnt have appreciated it as much and in turn wouldve probably beaten the living hell out of the car or worse....crashing

You know yourself better than anyone else, so if you think that its probably true. Not all kids are like that though. I'm not ashamed to admit that my parents bought my 1st two camaros, both were pretty cheap but amazing to me. I never disrespected the cars because they were bought for me, and I never have and never will drive like an ass. If anything, I treated those two cars with more care than the cars I have payments on, because I didn't want to disrespect my parents.

[91chevywt]

The issue is more about driving education and parenting. Its the same idea with cell phone and seat belt usage. People should wear their seat belt or use their cell phone when appropriate because they believe so...not out of fear of getting a ticket. When big brother has to tell you what to do its already gone too far. NJ already has what I believe to be the most strict driving laws in the country.

[Frosty]

Wait until they want to tag your car if you've had a DUI, or if you've had too many tickets or if you've been in too many accidents.....

To tag an innocent child's car because of what they MIGHT do is ludicrous but since it's in the name of "saving kids" people sheepishly go with it.

[BonzoHansen]

kids are worse nowadays then they were years ago. why? years ago not everyone had a cell phone to talk or text while they were driving and the fast and the furious was'nt out yet. i blame it all on those F&F movies.

cd's, dvd's, cell phones, more congestion, less care given in drivers education, nicer/faster cars at more accessible prices. lots of factors

All true, plus cars just were not as fast 'back in the day'. My first car was a 76 Camaro with a 350/4bbl and a TH350. OD lets you got a lot faster. You young guys take stock 13 second cars for granted, but cars have never been as fast as they are today. They didn't handle as well either, which also slowed you down. Hitting a tree at 40 is better than hitting a tree at 75. Add that to these reasons.

To tag an innocent child's car because of what they MIGHT do is ludicrous but since it's in the name of "saving kids" people sheepishly go with it.With all due respect, bulls**t. They are not "innocent children". They are young adults driving 4000+pound death machines that in 98 out of every 100 cases they are incapable of driving. And stats always prove that young people & accidents go hand in hand, partly (probably a big part) due to inexperience, partly due to a stupid feeling of invincibility. Hell, just look at the wannabe street racer idiots. You can tell them until the earth explodes it is dangerous and stupid, but its always "hey, **** off, we're race car drivers". Right, and I'm the King of Siam.

I agree with the provisional license concept. The problem is how to enforce it. I'm not sure a sticker/marker is helpful, but there needs to be some way to keep kids honest while not simultaneously giving cops the legal to pull over any car with a kid driving just because he's a kid.

[LTb1ow]

All true, plus cars just were not as fast 'back in the day'. My first car was a 76 Camaro with a 350/4bbl and a TH350. OD lets you got a lot faster. You young guys take stock 13 second cars for granted, but cars have never been as fast as they are today. They didn't handle as well either, which also slowed you down. Hitting a tree at 40 is better than hitting a tree at 75. Add that to these reasons.

With all due respect, bulls**t. They are not "innocent children". They are young adults driving 4000+pound death machines that in 98 out of every 100 cases they are incapable of driving. And stats always prove that young people & accidents go hand in hand, partly (probably a big part) due to inexperience, partly due to a stupid feeling of invincibility. Hell, just look at the wannabe street racer idiots. You can tell them until the earth explodes it is dangerous and stupid, but its always "hey, **** off, we're race car drivers". Right, and I'm the King of Siam.

I agree with the provisional license concept. The problem is how to enforce it. I'm not sure a sticker/marker is helpful, but there needs to be some way to keep kids honest while not simultaneously giving cops the legal to pull over any car with a kid driving just because he's a kid.


I agree. 100%

[Frosty]

So because someone is young you tag them with a "warning" to other drivers because peers in their age group feel invincible?

You know what, I hope someone causes an accident trying to avoid a vehicle that had one of those stickers on it, I really do.

I petition we mark ANYONE that had had a DUI before, after all they very well could be drunk and could cause an accident. Next we'll sticker someone who has received a ticket for talking on a cell phone while driving, after all they very well could repeat that action and cause an accident because they're talking on it again. After we're done that we'll sticker anyone that had had more than 2 accidents in their lives, I mean they must be an accident magnet and very well could put my life in danger.

My example may be a little extreme but what's to stop that? I mean if a "statistic" gets out of control then why not?

...and yes that younger driver IS innocent, they committed no crime, broke no law, violated no rule. Maybe DMV should get rid of their ridiculous "ok, lets drive around a quiet side street" test and take these kids out on 295 or 130 during rush hour, THAT'S a driving test.

I agree. 100%

Didn't you just have to go to court and get a ticket reduced for doing something you shouldn't have been doing? :rofl:

[LTb1ow]

No one said I was a saint on the road. And I am not in the age group, so Ha! I successfully survived the most dangerous part of my life.

[Frosty]

:lol: Touche

[LTb1ow]

They should really make a chip or something in the keys given to young people that puts the car into "teenage driver mode". And or not being able to run after a time period etc.

[Frosty]

Oh please tell me you're kidding....

[LTb1ow]

LOL, perhaps a bit.

[xrelapse13]

i'm gonna have to partially side with frosty on this. All because some teenagers do dumb **** doesn't we all do. We get prejudiced and singled out by cops anyway when they see a teenager driver. Its like having a target on your back. Isn't this letting stereotyping go abit far? I mean yeah i've seen some dumb ass mofos on the road but 50% of the time its also somebody old, (not tryin to be racist, just speaking from experience) an indian or asian person, or these god damn idiots in minivans that think side view mirrors are an automotive vestigial structure. How come they're not gonna come out with tags for senior citizens; their reaction time, eyesight, hearing, motor skills all get worse the older they get yet i don't see them being stereotyped?

I agree teens do dumb ****, but a tag isnt gonna stop someone from being an ignorant driver, its just going to give a cop another reason to harass someone. you wanna stop teen accidents, maybe they should get a better driving test and stricter requirements, instead of the one we have now that a 5 year old can pass with enough effort. there are alot of accidents because people that should never be behind the wheel of a car get their licenses without much effort. people fail the test 4-5 times, finally pass it, and in a year are driving on their own. wtf? makes you feel safe eh?

rant over.

and before neone jumps in with the whole cops are saints argument. I'm not sayin i have anything but respect for law enforcement officers. Most of the times i've been pulled over i've shown, and been shown nothing but respect. there are ones out there though that see a teenager as a target and i've had those once or twice.

[Dilley]

i have heard that there is talk that ford is going to sell their vehicles with a "parent key" and a "child key" and the child key supposedly will not start the car after 12 midnight or before 5am and governs the car to 65mph max or something

[NJ346]

I haven't read the whole thread, but has anyone brought up the fact that 4th gens have practically all plastic in the back=no go for magnet type decals. Im 17, and there will be no sticker/decal going on my car. I'll get it registered in another state if I have to.

[Mike]

I haven't read the whole thread, but has anyone brought up the fact that 4th gens have practically all plastic in the back=no go for magnet type decals. Im 17, and there will be no sticker/decal going on my car. I'll get it registered in another state if I have to.

im sure you will end up following whatever law gets passed

[NastyEllEssWon]

they can just push the driving age to 21 then.





remember. driving is a priveledge. not a RIGHT. they can make whatever laws they want and if you want the priveledge of driving you must adhere to them or pay the consequences

[NJ346]

im sure you will end up following whatever law gets passed

Yep, just like I have a front plate on my car...I actually just got back from a trip to Florida looking at colleges, so worse case scenario I'll get the car registered to my aunts house down there, then I don't have to worry about inspection, front plates, or tint:mrgreen:

[LTb1ow]

Ehhh fecck you Vinnie!

Yea, I prob won't be putting a sticker on my car either, talked it over with the parents they agreed.

[BonzoHansen]

I already said I'm not sure a tag is worth anything, but it's not like a cop can't see a kid is driving. But kids today are not paying attention to the laws. I read an article in the paper a few months ago where a reporter sat in a high school parking lot and counted the cars driven by students with 3+ kids in the car, which appears to be against the provisional license law. But the cops cannot pull them over just for that. So how do you guys propose the get kids to adhere to the laws?

You cry all day about kids not being treated fairly, but the fact it is just like a credit report. If you have no history it is as bad as having a bad history. Kids have no history, so you judge them by statistical fact. And the facts show kids crash a lot. Welcome to being a grown up. Life can be unfair, deal with it.

That graph I made up before, well, here is a real one from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. I wasn't too far off, huh? Stats have not changed much over the years I guess.

http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/images/older_people3.gif
And a big part of fatality part for the elderly is they are old and don't heal as easy.

http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/older_people.html
http://www.iihs.org/research/topics/teenagers.html

And to those asking why the state is 'wasting time' with this, it's called car insurance rates. Lower those ends of that curve and rates go down for all of us. Then politicians can claim they helped push rates down and get re-elected. After the work over the young, then they can use the data to institute programs geared towards the older drivers. By then you guys will be old and be pissed they are targeting older drivers. I giggle at the irony.

Fact is young and old people get in the most accidents by far. You have to handle the kids first because they don't vote and don't pay taxes - no politician has lost his job due to pissing off teenagers. That's life, get over it or go cry in the corner. I say screw the stickers and just let cops pull over cars by making provisional license primary offenses.

[LTb1ow]

Yea that would make more sense, but I think you were the one to point out that there are good laws in place now, they just don't get enforced as well as they should be. I just don't see a sticker changing anything. I mean how hard is it to not put it on, or cover it up?

[L695speed]

I just read on the Daily Record website that a lawyer is filing a lawsuit over this law. One of his arguments is we are already labeling teens for crimes that they did not commit, and even better.....he pointed out that we are not making sex offenders put anything on their cars for ID........good point.

When I started driving, I had a friend of mine who was a real idiot behind the wheel. In short he thought his POS Escort was a sportscar and would drive it like he was at the racetrack....now...if the car was something that could have handled the speed I wouldn't have been all complaining about it. There is a sign at Pope John HS that says Speed Kills. Speed doesn't kill...its a combination of car and driver control. If the driver knows how to control a car then speed won't kill. Even my mom who is not a fan of speeding agrees with that.

The only way we end all this is to send teens to those high performance schools and let them learn some real car control that you don't get in the BS six hours required instruction. My dad took me out in the wet and snow to a parking lot and taught me the basics of car control. Because of that I've been able to save cars in conditions that would have been serious accidents.

Anyway...here is the link to the lawsuit story if people are interested.

http://dailyrecord.com/article/20090417/UPDATES01/90417041/1008/COLUMNISTS?GID=FRJ6JY62v9wRw0e9qLY/S0Lfc0AjWk64fQEKWvJU5WI%3D

[BonzoHansen]

"The only way we end all this is to send teens to those high performance schools "

^^how do you pay for that?

"My dad took me out in the wet and snow to a parking lot and taught me the basics of car control. "

BTW, your Dad did good. Kudos to him. Most parents don;t care that much.

[L695speed]

"The only way we end all this is to send teens to those high performance schools "

^^how do you pay for that?

"My dad took me out in the wet and snow to a parking lot and taught me the basics of car control. "

BTW, your Dad did good. Kudos to him. Most parents don;t care that much.

Basically if you can't afford it then the parents should teach them, surly in that lifetime of driving experience they should be able to do something.

There is no way to pay for it you got me there. But the basic idea is there. Car control is the key......and people should not have to learn the hard way.

[Mike]

Yep, just like I have a front plate on my car...I actually just got back from a trip to Florida looking at colleges, so worse case scenario I'll get the car registered to my aunts house down there, then I don't have to worry about inspection, front plates, or tint:mrgreen:

have fun with that, you would have to have an official Florida residence YOURSELF and buy insurance as a Florida resident.. yup that means Florida drivers license

[LTb1ow]

My only concern with your statement is this, while your Dad helping you learn and what not is great, you just can't learn things over a week, hell even over a year. Experience is the only thing that saves drivers. And I think young drivers have way to much confidence in their falsified sense of accomplishment after the driving test.

[LTb1ow]

have fun with that, you would have to have an official Florida residence YOURSELF and buy insurance as a Florida resident.. yup that means Florida drivers license

Mike, he can state his college as his residence and therefore be a resident.

[Mike]

practicing in a parking lot doesn't mean **** when the car decides to get loose on the highway and panic takes over..........only experience will offset panic

[Mike]

Mike, he can state his college as his residence and therefore be a resident.

not in a dorm, it has to be a house/apartment, he would also have to get the florida license, re-register the car, and re insure the car. then when he moves home he would have to do everything all over again in nj, or keep a house down there so he can keep renewing his registration.

i actually know a couple local people that have done this, so im talking with experience rather than hypothetically.

[LTb1ow]

Yup, never said it was easy, just that it can be done.

[jims69camaro]

some drivers are ****ing dumb.

it doesn't matter if young or old, you can't fix stupid.

i'm surprised i don't hear the ACLU jumping up and down right about now. don't tell me they are going to go along with this without a peep...

[Mike]

i would be all for having to retake the written and road tests every time the license needs to be renewed. including a physical and eye exam.

inexperienced people might be a problem, but the biggest problem is people that physically shouldn't be driving. i cant even count how many times i have pulled up next to someone at a light and looked over and see that they are on a ****ing oxygen tank

[L695speed]

My only concern with your statement is this, while your Dad helping you learn and what not is great, you just can't learn things over a week, hell even over a year. Experience is the only thing that saves drivers. And I think young drivers have way to much confidence in their falsified sense of accomplishment after the driving test.

Well, I agree with that. But when you know what the car will do and how it will react to some things then its not as bad. I've had cars get into trouble (yes I will admit some of them were stupid on my part) but because I knew what to do the panic didn't set in. Naturally this is not the same for everyone. I've had a bronco almost spin out on me in blizzard conditions, (4X4 was discovered not to be working), a sable hydroplane in heavy rain and a river running across the road, and most recently, an MR2 step sideways on me when I hit a damp patch of road coming out of a corner on an otherwise dry country road. All three times I knew depending on the car, what I had to do to get out of it.

[79CamaroDiva]

Trying to argue with a teenager and tell him that he doesnt know everything is like trying to nail jelly to the wall. They're just going to turn around and say "yes we do" or as in the case of some of the arguments here "other teenagers don't know everything, but I know I do"

We've all been there, and it happens no matter how old everyone else gets, there's always teenagers who know everything. I can't tell you how much I've learned since I knew everything there was to know. Nobody's innocent of it, its just a maturing thing that happens well beyond your 17th birthday.

The kids who THINK they're fantastic drivers are the ones who are the worst. You're not. You will not be, until you realize that you have a lot to learn about driving. A perfect example happened to me last week on 287. I was driving along, about to pass a tractor trailer and I was maybe 30+ feet behind him in the lane to the left, when I got a chunk of rubber thrown at my car.. I slowed down and let what I knew was going to happen happen. MASSIVE tire blow out, followed by a nearly jack knifed trailer. How many kids would have been so P.O'ed that a piece of rubber hit their car that they would have gone up and FLOWN by the truck? probably most of them. If I did that, I would have been hit, first with the full tread off the tire, then by the trailer itself.

There's a lot to learn, a year or two or 3 of driving isn't going to give you all of your lifes experiences, sorry.

I still don't know everything. But when you finally admit that to yourself and get off your own high horse, then you stop being a danger to the people in the other lanes.

[Mike]

Trying to argue with a teenager and tell him that he doesnt know everything is like trying to nail jelly to the wall. They're just going to turn around and say "yes we do" or as in the case of some of the arguments here "other teenagers don't know everything, but I know I do"

We've all been there, and it happens no matter how old everyone else gets, there's always teenagers who know everything. I can't tell you how much I've learned since I knew everything there was to know. Nobody's innocent of it, its just a maturing thing that happens well beyond your 17th birthday.

The kids who THINK they're fantastic drivers are the ones who are the worst. You're not. You will not be, until you realize that you have a lot to learn about driving. A perfect example happened to me last week on 287. I was driving along, about to pass a tractor trailer and I was maybe 30+ feet behind him in the lane to the left, when I got a chunk of rubber thrown at my car.. I slowed down and let what I knew was going to happen happen. MASSIVE tire blow out, followed by a nearly jack knifed trailer. How many kids would have been so P.O'ed that a piece of rubber hit their car that they would have gone up and FLOWN by the truck? probably most of them. If I did that, I would have been hit, first with the full tread off the tire, then by the trailer itself.

There's a lot to learn, a year or two or 3 of driving isn't going to give you all of your lifes experiences, sorry.

I still don't know everything. But when you finally admit that to yourself and get off your own high horse, then you stop being a danger to the people in the other lanes.

:werd::cheers::cheers:

[NJ346]

have fun with that, you would have to have an official Florida residence YOURSELF and buy insurance as a Florida resident.. yup that means Florida drivers license

Yes, I know that Mike.

And back up to a point brought up about young drivers having more than 1 passenger in the car...There is at least one cop assigned to my school that sits in the parking lot and watches everyone leave. I have seen cops in my town pull kids over just for the fact of having too many kids in the car. Also, my town has implemented a mandatory "Alive at 25" program that I had to take before I could get a parking pass for the High School. Yes, there are some kids that take advantage of the law, but you could say the same about many laws. Just a few months ago there was a 17 year old who died when she flipped her truck on the parkway at 3 am...she wasn't supposed to be out, and ended up getting killed as a result. My point is, it's like smoking cigarettes, if you don't stop breaking the law, something bad is bound to happen.

[NastyEllEssWon]

well if they have too many kids in the car and theyre not supposed to then yes they should get pulled over.



the big problem why no lawsuit like that will ever happen is once again...YOU DONT HAVE TO DRIVE....you can just find alternate means of transportation. dont wanna play by the rules dont play the game. that would be like everyone saying....well speed limits only apply to bad drivers, i can handle it and utter chaos will ensue. its just like when the graduated drivers licenses and everyone through a stink about that...now 7 years later many states have adopted the process. no one is forcing you to drive.



the fact that these kids cant just shut up and take the new laws shows that the exact age group theyre targeting really arent mature enough. way to prove their point.

[BonzoHansen]

Trying to argue with a teenager and tell him that he doesnt know everything is like trying to nail jelly to the wall. They're just going to turn around and say "yes we do" or as in the case of some of the arguments here "other teenagers don't know everything, but I know I do"

We've all been there, and it happens no matter how old everyone else gets, there's always teenagers who know everything. I can't tell you how much I've learned since I knew everything there was to know. Nobody's innocent of it, its just a maturing thing that happens well beyond your 17th birthday.

The kids who THINK they're fantastic drivers are the ones who are the worst. You're not. You will not be, until you realize that you have a lot to learn about driving. A perfect example happened to me last week on 287. I was driving along, about to pass a tractor trailer and I was maybe 30+ feet behind him in the lane to the left, when I got a chunk of rubber thrown at my car.. I slowed down and let what I knew was going to happen happen. MASSIVE tire blow out, followed by a nearly jack knifed trailer. How many kids would have been so P.O'ed that a piece of rubber hit their car that they would have gone up and FLOWN by the truck? probably most of them. If I did that, I would have been hit, first with the full tread off the tire, then by the trailer itself.

There's a lot to learn, a year or two or 3 of driving isn't going to give you all of your lifes experiences, sorry.

I still don't know everything. But when you finally admit that to yourself and get off your own high horse, then you stop being a danger to the people in the other lanes.

Ha ha, you're growing up!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v359/SIBLY/AB-BP-24818.jpg

[LTb1ow]

http://www.medway.gov.uk/print/gusd.bmp

Oh the british...

[NJ346]

well if they have too many kids in the car and theyre not supposed to then yes they should get pulled over.



the big problem why no lawsuit like that will ever happen is once again...YOU DONT HAVE TO DRIVE....you can just find alternate means of transportation. dont wanna play by the rules dont play the game. that would be like everyone saying....well speed limits only apply to bad drivers, i can handle it and utter chaos will ensue. its just like when the graduated drivers licenses and everyone through a stink about that...now 7 years later many states have adopted the process. no one is forcing you to drive.



the fact that these kids cant just shut up and take the new laws shows that the exact age group theyre targeting really arent mature enough. way to prove their point.

I don't see why your getting so defensive and angry over this...reading your comments makes me assume that your older than 17 since your all for the law. If you were 17 and had the T/A, you wouldn't have a problem putting a sticker on your car?

[Frosty]

the fact that these kids cant just shut up and take the new laws shows that the exact age group theyre targeting really arent mature enough. way to prove their point.

Whoah, wait a minute. Since when did this become Nazi Germany? They SHOULD speak up about something they don't agree with, they SHOULD protest, write their government representatives and do whatever they can to fight what they feel is wrong.

Rolling over and just "accepting" something shows immaturity, not the other way around.

[NastyEllEssWon]

i actually fell in the category of first NJ drivers to have to embark through the graduated drivers license law. imagine my horror when i found out that friends who got their licenses 2 weeks before me had a full fledged license and mine was a piece of paper with a hologram on it...thats right...we didnt have the digital up turned licenses you have. we had to carry a piece of paper that looked like a permit with holograms on them.





now saying that and looking back on it....it wasnt bad. i am also 100 times safer behind the wheel at 25 (26 in the summer) than i was when i was 17/18.


trust us. its a monday morning quarterback type of deal. hindsight is 20/20 and may feel its unfair....its a sticker. deal with it. its the law. christ. how hard is that.



im not angry at all, just ticked a lil at people that are in offense to this. if they made it a law that everyone has to drive with a certain hat on...guess what...your wearing a hat. like i said before. you dont have to drive. its a luxary.

[Frosty]

So you'd give up your right to voice your opinion and fight something you don't agree with because it's a "luxury"? Yikes.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Whoah, wait a minute. Since when did this become Nazi Germany? They SHOULD speak up about something they don't agree with, they SHOULD protest, write their government representatives and do whatever they can to fight what they feel is wrong.

Rolling over and just "accepting" something shows immaturity, not the other way around.





its a law. its a just law. its nowhere near shepparding people into cattle boxes and training them to a concentration camp.


they dont want to single you out...they want everyone else to be aware that your an inexperienced driver and i might give myself a little bit more cushion knowing that when i see it.

[LTb1ow]

So you would wear this is someone said you had too?
http://www.foureyesjokeshop.com/ProductImages/hats/Rainbow-Crazy-Hat.jpg

[NastyEllEssWon]

well now your being silly. thats not a just law is it?

[NJ346]

i actually fell in the category of first NJ drivers to have to embark through the graduated drivers license law. imagine my horror when i found out that friends who got their licenses 2 weeks before me had a full fledged license and mine was a piece of paper with a hologram on it...thats right...we didnt have the digital up turned licenses you have. we had to carry a piece of paper that looked like a permit with holograms on them.





now saying that and looking back on it....it wasnt bad. i am also 100 times safer behind the wheel at 25 (26 in the summer) than i was when i was 17/18.


trust us. its a monday morning quarterback type of deal. hindsight is 20/20 and may feel its unfair....its a sticker. deal with it. its the law. christ. how hard is that.



im not angry at all, just ticked a lil at people that are in offense to this. if they made it a law that everyone has to drive with a certain hat on...guess what...your wearing a hat. like i said before. you dont have to drive. its a luxary.

since you brought up the 17 to 25 age difference and how you have become a much better driver, what about the drivers that are 65+, how come they're not getting stickers? The chart a few pages back showed that they are more dangerous than the "avg" aged driver...

[Frosty]

its a law. its a just law. its nowhere near shepparding people into cattle boxes and training them to a concentration camp.


they dont want to single you out...they want everyone else to be aware that your an inexperienced driver and i might give myself a little bit more cushion knowing that when i see it.

I'm not saying they're going to be putting people into cattle boxes but to have such a relaxed "it's just a law" attitude can be dangerous. Any time a certain group of people are tagged, singled out or forced into some type of category it should be looked at with the utmost scrutiny.

[NastyEllEssWon]

since you brought up the 17 to 25 age difference and how you have become a much better driver, what about the drivers that are 65+, how come they're not getting stickers? The chart a few pages back showed that they are more dangerous than the "avg" aged driver...





its politics. 17 year olds cant vote. old people can. if they try to push this on the older folks they will just vote that person out of office. they have to lay the groundwork with the younger kids for now that way when they have a bit of statistics to present to the public it doesnt seem like a bad idea.

[NastyEllEssWon]

I'm not saying they're going to be putting people into cattle boxes but to have such a relaxed "it's just a law" attitude can be dangerous. Any time a certain group of people are tagged, singled out or forced into some type of category it should be looked at with the utmost scrutiny.




theyre not singling you out they are just trying to keep everyone else just as safe as the law is trying to keep you. its the same thing when the seatbelt law happened, the GDL and the 55 mph speed limit contraversy.



how does it single you out. by telling people your inexperienced. that you might not react as quickly or instictively as an experienced driver. that cops are able to tell you apart when your breaking your gdl rules and having too many kids in the car or when your out past midnight?

so you oppose a law that helps enforce another?

[LTb1ow]

Its not this law in particular he is upset about, its the mindset of, oh well another law slightly chipping away at our rights...

Thats a scary mindset to get into.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Its not this law in particular he is upset about, its the mindset of, oh well another law slightly chipping away at our rights...

Thats a scary mindset to get into.




once again. first line of the drivers manual.



DRIVING IS A PRIVELEDGE NOT A RIGHT

[jims69camaro]

so you oppose a law that helps enforce another?

yes. there are too many laws on the books now that they can't/don't enforce. more law will not solve the problem. law enforcement, on the other hand, will. hire more policemen. have them trained by the best of the older generation. pay them something to cut down on the temptation of corruption. then cut them loose, aimed at enforcing the laws that are already on the books. you'd be surprised what could be done if all they did was enforce the current laws.

see, laws are becoming nothing more than ink on paper. hardly worth the time it took to type it up because no one is going to enforce it. so, yes, i oppose a law that helps enforce another because you will end up with another law on the books that police don't have the time/will-power/payroll hours to enforce. given the current conditions, and the finite number of hours a cop works, would you rather a cop works a murder investigation or making sure that little johnny and susie are not driving after dark/with a bunch of their 17 year old friends in the ca? it's safe to say that if a cop doesn't have time for the current law he won't have time for a law that helps enforce a law he doesn't have the time to enforce in the first place...

[Frosty]

Its not this law in particular he is upset about, its the mindset of, oh well another law slightly chipping away at our rights...

Thats a scary mindset to get into.

Thank you, someone finally f'in gets it.

once again. first line of the drivers manual.



DRIVING IS A PRIVELEDGE NOT A RIGHT

Irrelevant....you're missing the big picture. We all know it's a right, it's not rocket science to figure it out. However if "kids" are the target who is next? Hmmm, older people. Then who? Perhaps African Americans or the angry white man that just lost his job. Doesn't anger cause accidents? I'm sure we could find a statistic showing road rage incidents involving unemployed people or people making less than stellar salaries...I mean we should tag them in the name of "protecting the public" right?

Can the state come up with these laws? Absolutely. Can we exercise our God-given, Constitution-given right and speak out against it? You bet your ass we can.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Thank you, someone finally f'in gets it.



Irrelevant....you're missing the big picture. We all know it's a right, it's not rocket science to figure it out. However if "kids" are the target who is next? Hmmm, older people. Then who? Perhaps African Americans or the angry white man that just lost his job. Doesn't anger cause accidents? I'm sure we could find a statistic showing road rage incidents involving unemployed people or people making less than stellar salaries...I mean we should tag them in the name of "protecting the public" right?

Can the state come up with these laws? Absolutely. Can we exercise our God-given, Constitution-given right and speak out against it? You bet your ass we can.



the problem is that your missing. is that as much as you say we all know its a right...its not. they take peoples licenses away from them all the time. just ask your pal sweetricycle

[Frosty]

Sorry, I forgot the word "not" when saying we all know it's not a right :doh: :lol:

...and who?

[BonzoHansen]

So Frosty and others, is your complaint the sticker thing or the fact there are graduated licenses?

[Frosty]

The sticker.

[BonzoHansen]

While it's a far cry from the absurd examples offered, I think the sticker idea is stupid. But the laws behind the stickers (the graduated licenses) is solid. Reading these responses I get the feeling the two are being confused.

[NastyEllEssWon]

did you know that the sticker might also be used for people that are overage with a gdl

[Mike]

what if rather than a sticker on the car (which some people seem to be arguing more because its "ugly" than because its infringing on their "rights") they used a different color license plate on cars driven by "higher risk drivers" ( i wont argue the fact that seniors should go through the same program)

they should also require a written retest and a retest on the drivers course every time they need their license renewed, if your 36 and suddenly forget half the laws on the written test, or suddenly cant pass the drivers test THEY SHOULD TAKE THE PRIVILEGE AWAY FROM YOU. Just like they should for seniors that suddenly lose some of their driving ability.

[Frosty]

what if rather than a sticker on the car (which some people seem to be arguing more because its "ugly" than because its infringing on their "rights") they used a different color license plate on cars driven by "higher risk drivers" ( i wont argue the fact that seniors should go through the same program)

they should also require a written retest and a retest on the drivers course every time they need their license renewed, if your 36 and suddenly forget half the laws on the written test, or suddenly cant pass the drivers test THEY SHOULD TAKE THE PRIVILEGE AWAY FROM YOU. Just like they should for seniors that suddenly lose some of their driving ability.

You shouldn't be singling out people like that, PERIOD. Stickers, different license plates, I don't agree with it for the same reasons I listed above, to hell with the stickers looking ugly, that's not a reason to argue it, lol.

As far as the retest, sure...I agree with that. The way it sits now there's really no system of checks and balances as far as driver skill/law knowledge goes.

[Mike]

You shouldn't be singling out people like that, PERIOD. Stickers, different license plates, I don't agree with it for the same reasons I listed above, to hell with the stickers looking ugly, that's not a reason to argue it, lol.

As far as the retest, sure...I agree with that. The way it sits now there's really no system of checks and balances as far as driver skill/law knowledge goes.

maybe you should just be happy you live in pa and this doesn't matter to you at all?

[NJ346]

maybe you should just be happy you live in pa and this doesn't matter to you at all?

lol. All this thread is about is arguing, I don't see anything coming out of this thread other than people having different views on certain laws....whatta surprise?:lol:

[Tru2Chevy]

As far as the people who think the sticker is gonna be ugly, the article in the Times that I read said they would be small orange stickers placed on the license plate, most likely in the same location as the old registration stickers.

- Justin

[Frosty]

maybe you should just be happy you live in pa and this doesn't matter to you at all?

Maybe I have a right to voice my opinion since your **** hole, ass backwards state is starting this it could trickle down to other states. Also, there's a very good chance I'm moving back to NJ. Furthermore, I'm not even close to the age that we're discussing...

So yeah....I guess I can't voice my opinion since it doesn't have anything to do with me...

[Mike]

Maybe I have a right to voice my opinion because since your **** hole, ass backwards state starts this it could trickle down to other states. Also, there's a very good chance I'm moving back to NJ. Furthermore, I'm not even close to the age that we're discussing...

So yeah....

i know your not close to the age.

so yeah.......

[Frosty]

i know your not close to the age.

so yeah.......

I'm glad you know that..

So yeah....

:rofl:;):D

[NJ346]

So yeah....good thread? haha

[Frosty]

YEAH! :D

[jims69camaro]

not in a dorm, it has to be a house/apartment, he would also have to get the florida license, re-register the car, and re insure the car. then when he moves home he would have to do everything all over again in nj, or keep a house down there so he can keep renewing his registration.

i actually know a couple local people that have done this, so im talking with experience rather than hypothetically.

that's actually the proper way to do it. if you plan on being in a certain state for longer than 30 days, then you should change everyting over to your new (expected) residence. they only give you 30 days once you complete the move to get it done, so haste is important. then, once you move back, permanently, you should change everything over again within 30 days.

i've known some people that keep up the ruse for years only to pay lower insurance rates. it was almost like sticker shock on a new car when i came back to NJ. i had paid for the car again in insurance premiums over the course of the 5 year loan. that, of course, was before i had turned 25, got married, insurance on the house, etc.; they are all discounting factors used by the insurance companies to offer lower rates to new customers.

i don't know where someone (geico) got the bright idea to start checking people's credit reports when offering them a new policy. well, my credit's shi++y, but that doesn't mean i am a bad driver. :rofl:

[LTb1ow]

To anyone else concerned with this, apparently the decal will be required for all drivers under 21. WTF.

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-13/123985530515080.xml&coll=1

[BonzoHansen]

I saw that. The sticker idea is just dumb and a waste of $$.

This is fine by me:
The second bill (S16) limits young drivers to only one passenger in a car unless accompanied by an adult, forbids the use of wireless communications and starts the ban on late-night driving at 11 p.m. instead of midnight.

As is this pending one:
Weeks said she's hoping the legislature passes more more bill (A3068), which would require a teenager's parent to complete an orientation program on driving rules.

[LTb1ow]

Yea I have no problem with that, but I sure hope the state drags its feet with this for another 6 months cause no decal is going on my car.

[BonzoHansen]

It goes on your plates like the old registration sticker, not on your car, Mr I Added To The Statistics. LOL

[LTb1ow]

Ehhhh, I am out of the young driver group according to insurance, I don't know why NJ is going to 21 with this nonsense.

Kinda annoying, I can understand sub 18 but above that, I am allowed to **** my life up myself. Thank you NJ, but I got it.

[Frosty]

Ehhhh, I am out of the young driver group according to insurance, I don't know why NJ is going to 21 with this nonsense.

Kinda annoying, I can understand sub 18 but above that, I am allowed to **** my life up myself. Thank you NJ, but I got it.

That's what happens when someone young dies, people are quick to pass these reactionary laws....it's happening everywhere...

[LTb1ow]

Yea, knee jerk reaction, ah well. I assume they will "check" these decals at inspection? Even then, dunno how they could prove its "my" car versus my parents car etc.

[maroman88]

uhh this 21 thing is pushin it....

[69BirdX]

i think its grrrreattt....why because im over 21 and dont care

[miketa95]

My younger brother just got his license last week, and got pulled over three days later for having too many people in the car. The cop gave him a ticket, but told him "sorry but the state is making us push this law." I think their way too lenient, the fact the cop apologized was ridiculous. I see the way my brother, and many of his friends drive and it reminds me of how I did myself back in High school, which is nothing to be proud of. I think it's natural for (especially a male) to go out and test the limits of a car once their old enough to drive one. I'm not saying that makes it okay, but I don't think there will be much that will stop some kid from wanting to go a little crazy now and then right after gaining this new privilege.

[sweetbmxrider]

i have absolutely no problem having a distinguishing sticker on my license plate to notify other drivers of my presence. i know young drivers are for the most part terrible at driving and only experience will help them. i work right by a high school and see some of the terrible driving habits/law breaking first hand. i think it could be a good thing but its like the ban on cell phones and ipods, it only works if the law is obeyed. most young people learn from example as well and are influenced by their surroundings. control that and you might have a smart youth for once.

[L695speed]

This is going to become like the drinking law as far as wtf laws in terms of the federal gov't.

You are forced to register for the draft at 18, therefore you can be thrown into war zones fresh out of HS or while you are still in HS and yet you can't go out to the bar and have a beer. Add to that and yet you can't go for a drive with your buddies. This is getting ridiculous next they are going to be complaining that teens and people in their 20s are getting killed when they have families because they don't have the experience of driving with distractions...........

[Mike]

considering the majority of the people in this state either dont read the newspaper or dont come on these forums, most of the people that see the sticker on the road will just think you have an old registration sticker on your plate........:)

[Mike]

This is going to become like the drinking law as far as wtf laws in terms of the federal gov't.

You are forced to register for the draft at 18, therefore you can be thrown into war zones fresh out of HS or while you are still in HS and yet you can't go out to the bar and have a beer. Add to that and yet you can't go for a drive with your buddies. This is getting ridiculous next they are going to be complaining that teens and people in their 20s are getting killed when they have families because they don't have the experience of driving with distractions...........

bad example, we dont have a draft anymore

[L695speed]

Doesn't mean they won't bring it back. Still gotta register for it. Even those who voluntary go to the military still gotta follow the law. I know this is getting pointless anyway.... this is still a valid point

"This is getting ridiculous next they are going to be complaining that teens and people in their 20s are getting killed when they have families because they don't have the experience of driving with distractions..........."

Distractions are a part of life, we don't need to be postponing the experiences that might have worse consequences later in life......

[BonzoHansen]

What the hell are you guys talking about with not enough distractions? Holy crap there are enough out there now w/o texting, cellphones and 3 other high schoolers in the car. To even insinuate that they will be worse off a few years from now because they were not allowed even more distractions is asinine.

"That's what happens when someone young dies, people are quick to pass these reactionary laws....it's happening everywhere... "

Getting past calling it 'Kyleigh's Law', the stats show it is far from knee-jerk. They passed the 1st laws a few years ago, and it proved to be not enough (although IMOP that is because they were secondary offenses). So now more. Hopefully it helps a bit and then the next time an old guy plows into a store front they can begin to tackle the elderly drivers, even though the AARP will call that knee-jerk too. Although stats again prove otherwise.

[LTb1ow]

Going strictly off stats is a weak arguement, I mean look at our prison systems, remind me again of their effectivlness?

While its good to see things being done to help the situation, why didn't the laws get enforced to begin with?

Just off of personal experiance, my parents refused to let me drive after 11pm, I fail to see why more parents can't step up and do something to keep their kids out of a casket.

[BonzoHansen]

In this case stats are very elightening. Don't muck up the converstaion with unrelated ancedotes.

What part of secondary offense is hard to understand? A cop coud sit outside a highschool and watch car loads of kids pull away and not pull them over.

Most parents don't do that.

[LTb1ow]

Fine, no more random anecdotes.

I thought they changed it to a primary offense?
I just fail to see how a sticker on a car will make young kids drive better, thats the problem at hand. Giving more tools to law enforcement will not make me drive better... Dunno how they figure that stuff out...

[Frosty]

It's easier to create another law instead of fixing the actual problem...like I said a few pages ago the "driving test"(and I use that term weakly) is a joke...at least it was back in 98 when I got my license(I was 18).

Maybe DMV should change the way it tests drivers...just a thought...it certainly wouldn't hurt. It'd help to weed out the bad drivers from the very beginning, at least in theory it would.

[NJ346]

In this case stats are very elightening. Don't muck up the converstaion with unrelated ancedotes.

What part of secondary offense is hard to understand? A cop coud sit outside a highschool and watch car loads of kids pull away and not pull them over.

Most parents don't do that.

And this is why I brought up the fact that a cop sits outside of my high school. I HAVE seen local cops pull over cars with more than 1 person in them just for that reason.

[LTb1ow]

It's easier to create another law instead of fixing the actual problem...like I said a few pages ago the "driving test"(and I use that term weakly) is a joke...at least it was back in 98 when I got my license(I was 18).

Maybe DMV should change the way it tests drivers...just a thought...it certainly wouldn't hurt. It'd help to weed out the bad drivers from the very beginning, at least in theory it would.

Ha, my ex failed her test the first time. :rofl:

But yea, tougher, longer tests would be good. When I went through it, it was like no matter how stupid you were the state gave you a lisense. Make it hard to pass and don't give in to people that don't pass.

[BonzoHansen]

Sticker is stupid, I think there is agreement on that.

Frosty I agree the driving test is near-useless. I'd be all for making is much harder, I'm just not sure how to pay for it.

Until now the P/L laws were secondary. I believe they are now primary. If they pulled kids over strictly for p/l rules (and not some other reason, speeding, belts, etc) when it was secondary than that was wrong. Although that is what they should be able to do.

[LTb1ow]

Well do kids under 18, REALLY need to drive? I mean yea, look at you driving to school, so cool. But a def needed thing?

Why don't they raise the driving age to like 20?

Vinnie, well, sorry, but sucks for you. lol

[sweetbmxrider]

how about sticking a person going for a license in a car in a controlled environment and wrecking it. that should help :)

i believe they are all primary offenses now too.

[LTb1ow]

how about sticking a person going for a license in a car in a controlled environment and wrecking it. that should help :)

i believe they are all primary offenses now too.

IDK, I laughed at the "horror" vids they showed us before prom and what.

[sweetbmxrider]

what changes from 17 to 20? most young kids have jobs they are driving to. maybe they should be limited to a certain type of vehicle with hp/weight that is easily manageable by new drivers. basically stick them in go karts

[LTb1ow]

Well the biggest difference would be older ish kids are not in high school and aside from sweet ass tough guy street racing, the main danger to their lives is removed. One young driver by himself is better than a car of them.

[sweetbmxrider]

i agree that if you were driving alone, you would be more responsible.

[NJ346]

Well do kids under 18, REALLY need to drive? I mean yea, look at you driving to school, so cool. But a def needed thing?

Why don't they raise the driving age to like 20?

Vinnie, well, sorry, but sucks for you. lol

haha. Well I do have a job and I had a job before I had my license, but it was tough to always find rides. Yes, people can argue it's a convenience and not a necessity, but to them, I say this: :moon:

[LTb1ow]

Yea, but you are an exception, I did the same thing while in high school, took to many classes and had to be there an hour early, so driving was a needed thing. However that being said, maybe make it so drivers under 20 can drive between school hours only? Give or take an hour or so diffference.

[L695speed]

Well the biggest problem is people need to learn how to drive at some point. I don't see how raising the driving age, to the point where people are working and going to college is going to help that. It might just make things worse. What we need is a system like Germany......one of the hardest tests in the world.

I failed mine first time because of the f***ing parallel parking, even though I was doing maneuvers that were much higher in difficulty in my own driveway. Threading through two or three cars and parking in front of the garage on a hill and turning is not easy. We never see parallel parking anymore other than in the cities so where is the value of that skill? I would put the test scores on actual driving and signals and etc more than the damn parallel parking part. I didn't hit anything when I did it and he claimed I crossed the double yellow line when I did it. There was no way I was going to not cross it. WTF. The guy was an a-hole anyway. End rant.

[L695speed]

However that being said, maybe make it so drivers under 20 can drive between school hours only? Give or take an hour or so diffference.

I don't see how that helps people improve their driving skills if the mantra is theres no substitute for experience. The more you drive the better you should get (in theory anyway). :-?

[Mike]

Going strictly off stats is a weak arguement, I mean look at our prison systems, remind me again of their effectivlness?

While its good to see things being done to help the situation, why didn't the laws get enforced to begin with?

Just off of personal experiance, my parents refused to let me drive after 11pm, I fail to see why more parents can't step up and do something to keep their kids out of a casket.

what would you like to know?

[LTb1ow]

LOL, I forgot the term for it, but the rate of prisoners that end up right back in prison after release.

[BonzoHansen]

..stay on topic...

[Mike]

recidivism

[Dilley]

i agree that if you were driving alone, you would be more responsible.

im going to have to disagree due to the fact that i know me and many of people will be much more wreck less alone then with other people because as messed up as it sounds we care less about our own lives then our friends so we drive more responsibly with others just my experience

[LTb1ow]

So like 90% of the teenage driver accidents would just happen to involve a car load full of teens at random?

Statistics are against you, me, and the rest of the mature(ish) young drivers.

[NJ346]

im going to have to disagree due to the fact that i know me and many of people will be much more wreck less alone then with other people because as messed up as it sounds we care less about our own lives then our friends so we drive more responsibly with others just my experience

i completly agree. i drive way more wreckless when im by myself

[Frosty]

Frosty I agree the driving test is near-useless. I'd be all for making is much harder, I'm just not sure how to pay for it.



Yup, the age-old problem. You know Bonzo, I was still thinking about this law a little while ago....I don't know all of the statistics off the top of my head and I'm too lazy to look them up but what will having an 11PM curfew do to reduce the number of accidents? Do the statistics prove that 11PM is the magic number when looking at the time of the accidents?

[Mike]

you should have to be able to spell RECKLESS to have a license

[BonzoHansen]

I think that has a lot to do with sleeping & driving. I'm willing to bet the stats hold water on the timing.

[NJ346]

you should have to be able to spell RECKLESS to have a license

haha...maybe that would stop all of the foreigners from be able to get licenses.

[Frosty]

haha...maybe that would stop all of the foreigners from be able to get licenses.

...just foreigners? Try half of the general population lol

[Mike]

would have stopped you too.......

[LTb1ow]

I think that has a lot to do with sleeping & driving. I'm willing to bet the stats hold water on the timing.

And there should be no reason for a minor to be out driving past 11. No reason.

[Mike]

And there should be no reason for a minor to be out driving past 11. No reason.

work

[LTb1ow]

A 17 year old, working past 11?

[BonzoHansen]

work

:werd: I worked past 11pm a bunch. Now, I believe the previous version of this law had an exclusion for driving to/from work off hours. Does that still exist?

[Mike]

busing/waiting tables, working retail during the holidays.

lots of jobs

[NJ346]

would have stopped you too.......

I know, but that wasn't my point....

[91chevywt]

Well the biggest problem is people need to learn how to drive at some point. I don't see how raising the driving age, to the point where people are working and going to college is going to help that. It might just make things worse. What we need is a system like Germany......one of the hardest tests in the world.



This is exactly the point. A bad driver will be a bad driver whether they are 16 or 25. They need to enforce a more strict test along with more education. The 3 months of driver's ed isn't enough. Bad driving is caused more by ignorance than anything...the only way to get rid of ignorance is through education. Pushing back the age and enforcing new fines only establishes a little extra income and pissed off young drivers if anything. There should be more of a requirement for drivers education, at the drivers cost not the states, in order to obtain a license. You want to drive you need to do the work.

[NastyEllEssWon]

everyone is missing the big picture.



the reason they have the law that you can only have so many passengers in their car is to cut down on the number of multiple teen fatalities. studies have shown that with more passengers the rate for distractions go up. i can concur these studies from my own memories. haha i remember some really bad driving taking place back in the day.

[L695speed]

i can concur these studies from my own memories. haha i remember some really bad driving taking place back in the day.

Well I know I sped, took a couple corners like it were a track, but it was well within reason. The worst thing I did was me and a bunch of friends (yea we all had GDLs but I was allowed to take more than one friend as I passed the age limit) had a craving for the cheesecake factory....so off we went down the parkway. Now my car had a broken speedo the wrong way, I looked down and mine was pegged past 90. in that car 90 was well over 100 mph. It was a miricle we didn't get tickets that day. The only time I was ever pulled over was in the wee hours of the morning heading home from the beach "riding the yellow line" please.... anyway, back to my point...bad driving is only improved by experience, the laws are NOT helping that factor...afterall, all of our parents survived that back in the day. So why are we being forced to do all this crap that really doesn't help?

[BonzoHansen]

There are twice as many cars on the road now. Cars are faster now. You cannot compare conditions now to 30 years ago.

[Frosty]

would have stopped you too.......

If that was directed towards me...did I mess up the spelling too? :doh: I do that a lot lol

[LTb1ow]

There are twice as many cars on the road now. Cars are faster now. You cannot compare conditions now to 30 years ago.

I would bet kids are stupider(sp?) nowadays too.

[Dilley]

you should have to be able to spell RECKLESS to have a license

i deserved that one

[Mike]

If that was directed towards me...did I mess up the spelling too? :doh: I do that a lot lol

i didn't notice if you did, but two people in a row did and they each spelled it differently

[NJ346]

i didn't notice if you did, but two people in a row did and they each spelled it differently

well my original post that had "wreckless" in it was made from a cellphone so I have a partial excuse. My friend also calls himself wreckless ws6 so i assumed that it was spelled that way, guess I was wrong..

[Frosty]

i didn't notice if you did, but two people in a row did and they each spelled it differently

Oh ok, I thought you were busting my balls again, lol.

[ar0ck]

Read today in The Record, they are planning on putting stickers on people ages 16-21 with Provisional Licenses.

[91chevywt]

Nice. I'm sure it'll change the statistics. But there will still be the same amount of idiot drivers out there.

[sweetbmxrider]

you should have to be able to spell RECKLESS to have a license

its funny because i have seen wreckless on traffic tickets :lol:

Read today in The Record, they are planning on putting stickers on people ages 16-21 with Provisional Licesnes.

i guess this might work. its like the proactive vs reactive types of punishment. there should be a dedicated number so you can report aggressive driving by minors only. let the people police themselves kind of thing.

oh ya, i think its 7 out of 10 cars have a driving who has consumed alcohol when driving after 10 pm