instead of getting a lift...

[thunder]

So im tired of putting my car up on bricks when i work on it and i cant afford a lift. So i decided that im gonna dig a 6 foot deep and 3 foot wide trench at the end of the driveway so that i can just roll up and have easy access. obviously this is not just gonna be a random hole in the ground, i plan on reinforcing the walls and building a cover so that water does not get in while its not in use. Has any one heard of this being done here? i know its done alot in my home country but never seen it here

[madness410]

make sure you clear it with your municipality first to dig, dont want you hitting any gas lines there buddy lol

[NastyEllEssWon]

pits are illegal to build in nj anymore iirc. epa regs and such.

[BonzoHansen]

How do you plan on reinforcing that hole? 6' down needs some real engineering to prevent collapse. It might cost as much as a lift. You'd also have to consider safety when not in use. You would not want animals or children to fall into the hole. So it needs a cover that a child cannot remove.

Then there is the whole don't drive your car into the hole (I have heard stories about the, lol).

So I'm gonna vote no on your pit idea. Is your driveway concrete? Jack stands can help.


BTW, don't use blocks/bricks with voids as vehicle supports. They have been known to break at inopportune times.

Bad:
http://www.ccmaonline.com/concrete-homeowners/images/concrete-blocks.png

[BigAls87Z28]

Why not get a good set of jack stands and a good jack?

[LTb1ow]

How do you plan on reinforcing that hole? 6' down needs some real engineering to prevent collapse. It might cost as much as a lift. You'd also have to consider safety when not in use. You would not want animals or children to fall into the hole. So it needs a cover that a child cannot remove.

Then there is the whole don't drive your car into the hole (I have heard stories about the, lol).

So I'm gonna vote no on your pit idea. Is your driveway concrete? Jack stands can help.


BTW, don't use blocks/bricks with voids as vehicle supports. They have been known to break at inopportune times.

Bad:
http://www.ccmaonline.com/concrete-homeowners/images/concrete-blocks.png

Cinder blocks are bad, concrete blocks are good. Go to any marina, I bet they use blocks to hold up boats. :wink: But yea.... a trench? Seems like a nice way to dig your own grave and use it...

[deadtrend1]

Cinder blocks are bad, concrete blocks are good. Go to any marina, I bet they use blocks to hold up boats...

that's because they are lghter. Boats float, cars sink. Duh!

[LTb1ow]

LOL... rightt

[sweetbmxrider]

hahaha boats float


yeah i don't think you can legally build a pit. i wouldn't go 6 feet either, more like 4 to 5. usually there are two ramps that "bridge" either side of the pit too. also, you would want a drain because water would definitely get in there. i guess it would have to be contained and removable for the bad stuff that would come out of your car. you should just make friends with someone who has a lift though! or get a forklift :)

[BonzoHansen]

Cinder blocks are bad, concrete blocks are good. Go to any marina, I bet they use blocks to hold up boats. :wink: But yea.... a trench? Seems like a nice way to dig your own grave and use it...

Can you explain to me the difference in a cement block and a cinder block? :-P I'd never go under a car supported by a block with a void. They break and they do it without warning.


I'd use solid blocks in a pinch, but not on a regular basis.

[LTb1ow]

My pleasure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_masonry_unit

And why not? A concrete block stacked correctly will hold up a 20 ton boat.... for long periods of time...and if stacked right, if they were to crack you will not have a full failure.

[sweetbmxrider]

don't they support houses too?

[LTb1ow]

Houses float too!


Oh wait... no...

:)

[phantoms]

http://corvettec3.ca/ramps/ramp11.jpg

this?

[LTb1ow]

Hope there is more to that than crappy particle board...

[BonzoHansen]

That deal under the vette looks like a failure just based on the ramps alone.

don't they support houses too?

When stacked and mortared together according to a plan normally approved by a structural engineer. I'm comfortable saying the average back yard car repair guy will just drop the car on a block or 2, they will not be 'stacked correctly'.

I guess you know-it-alls will believe me when you see one break. Maybe you won't be under that car. Don't ****ing use them. Actually, maybe you two should. We could use some Darwinism around here.

[LTb1ow]

Um, your the only who sounds like a know it all asshat here....

You asked the difference, I gave you a link... I do suppose almost every single marina just uses them for the hell of it? I mean the few hundred thousand dollar boat is insured right? F it if it falls....

Right.

[BonzoHansen]

Dips***t. I know the difference, I was goofing see the :p. Argh.

I've seen them break. They get moisture in them, they go through freeze & thaw cycles, and you really have no idea a blocks history, and getting back to your wiki link I'm confident saying most people cannot identify the grade/composition of the concrete used in any given block.

You already said the marina stacks them, and that is far different then using them under a car where stacking them in a proper way is not very possible - you can't get a car all that high. Plus no one is probably lying under the boat, working under the boat and so forth. Apples & oranges. You appear to say it is ok to use cement blocks under a car and I'm telling you from experience it is not a good idea.

[phantoms]

Common guys we are not ford owners we don't argue.

[LTb1ow]

All I am debating is the ability for the correct block to support the weight of a car. And what do you mean no one lays under boats? How do you think the props get changes, bottoms painted, etc? :)

And they don't usually fail under load, they will just crack or crumble when being handled, pretty easy to spot.

I do agree on the height issue though, would need to be at least two blocks high...

[Featherburner]

This seems to work! just stack a bunch of these up. :lol:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u3/jdhawk93/filter-1.jpg

[sweetbmxrider]

i've never used a brick to hold a car i was working on. i use jack stands on very heavy vehicles or cars that will be up for a long time. i maintain my jacks.

[BonzoHansen]

All I am debating is the ability for the correct block to support the weight of a car. And what do you mean no one lays under boats? How do you think the props get changes, bottoms painted, etc? :)

And they don't usually fail under load, they will just crack or crumble when being handled, pretty easy to spot.

I do agree on the height issue though, would need to be at least two blocks high...See, it's all in the execution of the plan. :) And the reality is it is nearly impossible to properly execute blocks with voids under a car safely. You also grasp the point its about load distribution. Problem is under a car is rather un-flat, lol. So it is hard to spread the load evenly across the block, say like in a house foundation.

You just can't say it's ok to use blocks with voids under a car w/o a big disclaimer. You have to remember there are a ton of users on this site that are very inexperienced and all they will see is 'it's ok to use blocks'. Nope, it isn't for the reasons given, unless they go to great lengths. Given the safety aspect of the issue at hand (see the crushed by Jeep thread), it is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better to just say "no" than to try to explain the details involved in "yes, but".

I know you hate hearing about actual experience, but my Dad was a cement block junky so I have more experience with them than I'd like. I've seen them break out of the blue. And I know other guys that have seen it too. Better to be safe than dead or paralyzed.

This seems to work! just stack a bunch of these up. :lol:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u3/jdhawk93/filter-1.jpg

Who said Frams aren't good?

[LTb1ow]

Point taken.

And I did the supports for boats for like 4 years, never had one fail on me.

[BonzoHansen]

And they were nicely stacked, spreading the load, right? :)

[LTb1ow]

Yup, nice stacks, and we were able to set the boat down at whatever angle etc.

Although a stack of blocks would be safer than digging a pit in the back yard and having your car straddle it. IMO.

[thunder]

i was planning on checking with the the town on monday and also checking for pipes and such. as far as safety goes my dad built one with his father in Poland so we know more or less what were doing with this one.

And when i use blocks to hold up my car i never used a block with a gap. i borrow some driveway pavers from my friend who owns a company. these are actual stone.

[sweetbmxrider]

i was planning on checking with the the town on monday and also checking for pipes and such. as far as safety goes my dad built one with his father in Poland so we know more or less what were doing with this one.

And when i use blocks to hold up my car i never used a block with a gap. i borrow some driveway pavers from my friend who owns a company. these are actual stone.

now it makes sense, you're Polish :lol:

so am i :D

[thunder]

yup polish born so i got my improvised method of Auto repair

[JL8Jeff]

Cinder blocks will break under a car or truck! I tried it 20 years ago and I don't think they're any stronger now. Always use jackstands(as many as possible) and even leave the floor jack under the jacking point when possible as extra backup. A pit is not a good idea and I doubt it will be legal in NJ anyway.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Cinder blocks will break under a car or truck! I tried it 20 years ago and I don't think they're any stronger now. Always use jackstands(as many as possible) and even leave the floor jack under the jacking point when possible as extra backup. A pit is not a good idea and I doubt it will be legal in NJ anyway.

Our 3500 lb boat sits on it's trailer of unknown weight all fall/winter/spring on cinder blocks because we take the wheels/tires off. It hasn't fallen or moved in the 20 years that I've been alive. :shrug:

[Knipps]

Our 3500 lb boat sits on it's trailer of unknown weight all fall/winter/spring on cinder blocks because we take the wheels/tires off. It hasn't fallen or moved in the 20 years that I've been alive. :shrug:
yes nick but how many cinderblocks? it's already been discussed about the distribution of weight

[LTb1ow]

Its not the amount, its how you load the blocks more than anything else. And Nick, a trailer boat is not gonna weigh much in point loads like a car will.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

yes nick but how many cinderblocks? it's already been discussed about the distribution of weight

2 under tongue of trailer and 2 under each rear corner.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs252.snc1/9934_1157543942020_1330380016_30576830_7905797_n.j pg

Its not the amount, its how you load the blocks more than anything else. And Nick, a trailer boat is not gonna weigh much in point loads like a car will.

Yeah

[LTb1ow]

And its wrong Nick. Depending on how much you loaded on the tongue that stack is horrible.

[BonzoHansen]

Nick anyone that would work under that (and remember that is the topic of discussion) is an idiot. That is scary on balance issues alone, let alone block failure. Lay under it and shake the **** out of it like your Al fighting your panhard rod it will fall.

See Matt, that is my point in pictures. Look at that fail waiting to happen. You can't say "it's ok" without 14 paragraphs of "but..." - and they likely won't read the detail anyway. You can't really lift a car high enough to make a nice stack (or I might guess if you can you also have proper tools).

[LTb1ow]

Fine, point taken. LOL. People do dumb things.

[BonzoHansen]

Fine, point taken. LOL. People do dumb things.

LOL! Yup.

[thunder]

2 under tongue of trailer and 2 under each rear corner.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs252.snc1/9934_1157543942020_1330380016_30576830_7905797_n.j pg



Yeah

even i dont trust that set up

[BonzoHansen]

even i dont trust that set up

Why? Because it looks like my 8 year old could walk over and push it down? :lol:

[thunder]

this is the setup i used to change out my drive shaft among some other little things

[LTb1ow]

Not bad, relys heavy on your parking brake to actually work.

[thunder]

well that wasnt the final set up. the final set up i put bricks under the jacking point at the back so the rear wheels were free the front left had a block in front and behind the tire. also i know those are stone blocks so there not gonna crack

[BonzoHansen]

Not bad, relys heavy on your parking brake to actually work.And it relies. ;)

What he said, you need to keep it from rolling.

Isn't it easier to change a DS when the rear axles can turn?

If you have enough money for mods like a driveshaft you should have enough money for decent jack stands and tools.

[LTb1ow]

I only have a jack, and I only got it a while ago. Bricks ftw. :)

[BonzoHansen]

If you want to play with cars buy tools. Harbor Freight has nice 6 ton stands on sale for $29 this weekend.

[LTb1ow]

I will go get some concrete blocks from work and use them. And take pictures.

;) LOL

[thunder]

If you want to play with cars buy tools. Harbor Freight has nice 6 ton stands on sale for $29 this weekend.

thats a pretty good deal. ill swing by this weekend. and i dont have the money for tools all the money i make goes to college :(

[BonzoHansen]

Start with the basics. Safety basics especially. Go on their website sign up for emails they will send you 20% coupons.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

And its wrong Nick. Depending on how much you loaded on the tongue that stack is horrible.

Go try and move it. It's survived hurricanes, a tree falling on it, and has been under the same setup since I've been alive, idk about before my time.

Nick anyone that would work under that (and remember that is the topic of discussion) is an idiot. That is scary on balance issues alone, let alone block failure. Lay under it and shake the **** out of it like your Al fighting your panhard rod it will fall.


I'm not working under it. It's just sitting there. We jack it up, put the tires on, and bring to boat ramp. And as stated, it's damn solid. My mom and I were in it walking around lifting stuff out of the boat and it didn't budge one bit.

[LTb1ow]

Doesn't mean its right.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Doesn't mean it's completely wrong either. Nobody goes under it, it's not mean to serve as a lift, merely something to hold it there so we can take the tires off for the winter. Then put the tires on, jack it up high enough to take the blocks out, and that's it.

[LTb1ow]

Insurance company would beg to differ I bet if something happened.

[r0nin89]

Ughh I thought cinder/concrete block tech was commonly know. Never stack the blocks ANY way other than the face youd see them in a foundation.

I found this out the hard way at my buddys house. He threw a block under the back of the truck and mid axle drop out it let go. The truck was teetering on the 3 jack points that remained with me under it. That was scary...

[WildBillyT]

Ughh I thought cinder/concrete block tech was commonly know. Never stack the blocks ANY way other than the face youd see them in a foundation.

I found this out the hard way at my buddys house. He threw a block under the back of the truck and mid axle drop out it let go. The truck was teetering on the 3 jack points that remained with me under it. That was scary...

The compressive strength of concrete is around 4000 psi. The compressive strength of cinder block is around 1250 psi.

With a car or especially with a truck, you can get close to 1250 psi. Figure the weight is spread out but comes to a point at each wheel. If you throw a cinder block under a rotor(!) or something like that then the weight gets concentrated.

Skip the block. Do it the right way.

[LTb1ow]

http://blogs.davenportlibrary.com/eastern/wp-content/uploads/I_Beam_Steel1.jpg

Get some of these!

I can figure out stuff with these. LOL

[Blacdout96]

Or you guys could avoid this whole arguement by spending 30 bucks on some jack stands instead of trying to prove who's the smarter professional jerry rigger.

[WildBillyT]

Or you guys could avoid this whole arguement by spending 30 bucks on some jack stands instead of trying to prove who's the smarter professional jerry rigger.

They would spend more than the cost of a jack and jackstand set on materials to set up their hack ass setup.

[sweetbmxrider]

how did it get the name, "jackstand"?

[7pointoh]

What help will a hole do if you have to do any other work where you have to take the load off the wheels? Or remove them?

[Blacdout96]

What help will a hole do if you have to do any other work where you have to take the load off the wheels? Or remove them?

Hey, If you want to run around here and make great and valid points, do it in another forum. :lol:

[91chevywt]

What help will a hole do if you have to do any other work where you have to take the load off the wheels? Or remove them?

exactly...you would pretty much only be able to do oil changes and basic fluid maintenances. Those holes were mainly used in quick lube shops where cars can drive in and drive out as fast as possible.

A set of some good jackstands would be much more convenient, probably cheaper than all building materials for the hole. When your done just put them off in the corner. No hole to dig, cover, or do whatever with. And then you could even pull wheels

[WildBillyT]

exactly...you would pretty much only be able to do oil changes and basic fluid maintenances. Those holes were mainly used in quick lube shops where cars can drive in and drive out as fast as possible.

A set of some good jackstands would be much more convenient, probably cheaper than all building materials for the hole. When your done just put them off in the corner. No hole to dig, cover, or do whatever with. And then you could even pull wheels

Not to mention you will probably get **** from homeowners/property owners insurance for having a hole in the ground with no fence, etc. The last thing you need is for a neighbor's kid to fall in.

[7pointoh]

And since the subject of under car maintenance has been brought up, don't forget to purchase some wheel chocks in any case you don't need four wheels of the deck. Should go without saying but I'm saying it anyway.

[LTb1ow]

Now that you could use a brick for!

:)

[7pointoh]

Yes, yes...I've used the a couple of bricks on occasion.

[cdacda13]

I didn't think jack stands were that expensive.

[NastyEllEssWon]

And since the subject of under car maintenance has been brought up, don't forget to purchase some wheel chalks in any case you don't need four wheels of the deck. Should go without saying but I'm saying it anyway.





chalk breaks, chocks dont!

[jims69camaro]

wheel chalks... Should go without saying but I'm saying it anyway.

but you could've at least spelled it right. it's "chock" as in wheel chock, to chock a wheel to keep it from moving. and regardless of the wheel chock used, you should also set your parking brake and/or leave it in park or a low gear (1 or 2) for a manual.

i have used any number of things in a pinch. i like big, round things to put under the wheel after it's left the ground. like a spare tire with a steel rim in it. the bigger the base of the 'jackstand', the better. those 6-ton stands are way overboard, but the height of them might come in handy. i'd like a set, but i be broke.

[NastyEllEssWon]

but you could've at least spelled it right. it's "chock" as in wheel chock, to chock a wheel to keep it from moving. and regardless of the wheel chock used, you should also set your parking brake and/or leave it in park or a low gear (1 or 2) for a manual.

i have used any number of things in a pinch. i like big, round things to put under the wheel after it's left the ground. like a spare tire with a steel rim in it. the bigger the base of the 'jackstand', the better. those 6-ton stands are way overboard, but the height of them might come in handy. i'd like a set, but i be broke.



yup. thats exactly what theyre good for

[r0nin89]

The compressive strength of concrete is around 4000 psi. The compressive strength of cinder block is around 1250 psi.

With a car or especially with a truck, you can get close to 1250 psi. Figure the weight is spread out but comes to a point at each wheel. If you throw a cinder block under a rotor(!) or something like that then the weight gets concentrated.

Skip the block. Do it the right way.

Hmmm come to think of it I believe I've been using cinder blocks but I always double them up when I put them under my truck, so 2 wide = 2500psi I take. And I never put anything sharp or small that concentrates the weight to a small surface area, plus always have a 2x8 chunk ontop for best distribution.

[bubba428]

I just go to work and use their lift...for free

[deadtrend1]

I just go to work and use their lift...for free

Yey! But not everyone is that lucky.

[sweetbmxrider]

Yey! But not everyone is that lucky.

:shifty:


i wouldn't call it lucky......maybe i would.....:D

[Featherburner]

I just go to work and use their lift...for free

Yey! But not everyone is that lucky.

Some of us are luckier, we have a lift in our own garage.:wink:

[deadtrend1]

Some of us are luckier, we have a lift in our own garage.:wink:

:rolleyes:
Mr. special have a lift in my own garage ..... :moon:

:mrgreen:


Someday I will ....

[thunder]

:rolleyes:
Mr. special have a lift in my own garage ..... :moon:

:mrgreen:


Someday I will ....

and someday i will have a trench

[WildBillyT]

and someday i will have a trench

Yeah, then when they roll the fallen car away they can just throw dirt on you.

[//<86TA>\\]

Yeah, then when they roll the fallen car away they can just throw dirt on you.

easy cleanup!:nod:

[thunder]

easy cleanup!:nod:

haha i try not to be a burden 8-)

[LTb1ow]

Or just roll car into hole, and save the dirt for a garden. :)