New Commodore

[BigAls87Z28]

Holden showed off the all-new Commodore. No specs on weight or power yet, just car for now with some bits on the technology.

The Chevrolet SS will be shown next Sunday with some NASCAR announcement something.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f70/no-compromise-new-vf-holden-commodore-revealed-116268/

[r0nin89]

What happened to those statements that the chevrolet version of the g8 would only be brought to the states as a fleet vehicle?

[NJ Torque]

What happened to those statements that the chevrolet version of the g8 would only be brought to the states as a fleet vehicle?


This.

After we drive to ALT for a Caprice...

[DaSkinnyGuy]

Boom goes the dynamite, I like it.

[BigAls87Z28]

What happened to those statements that the chevrolet version of the g8 would only be brought to the states as a fleet vehicle?

This.

After we drive to ALT for a Caprice...


No one ever said that. The Caprice, the long-wheel base version, is here as a fleet-only model.
We told everyone that we would be getting the upgraded Commodore once the development was done. It's done, and now it's coming as a production car for retail.

[maroman88]

:drool: thats sexy

[NastyEllEssWon]

too plain. if i wanted a 4 door that looked like that id just buy a genesis v8. im holding out hope that the chevy version has a front fascia more along the lines of the mideast lumina ss. something more aggressive with an open face :D

[Blackbirdws6]

Interior looks great. Exterior is nice but a little soft for my taste.

[transmaro93]

is it built like all the new buick cars?

[WildBillyT]

too plain. if i wanted a 4 door that looked like that id just buy a genesis v8. im holding out hope that the chevy version has a front fascia more along the lines of the mideast lumina ss. something more aggressive with an open face :D

It reminds me of a Sonata, actually.

I like it, but I kind of hope the front end styling is different when it is badged for the USA.

[NastyEllEssWon]

It reminds me of a Sonata, actually.

I like it, but I kind of hope the front end styling is different when it is badged for the USA.




haha actually now that you mention it is closer to the sonata than the genesis but still close enough within the manufacturer to be right :D but yeah its not a knock on either car, they both look great, but im actually in the market to purchase a 4 door and i'd prefer it to be with a nice v8 in it. overall id really just like a lumina ss from the mideast :D

[NJ Torque]

haha actually now that you mention it is closer to the sonata than the genesis but still close enough within the manufacturer to be right :D but yeah its not a knock on either car, they both look great, but im actually in the market to purchase a 4 door and i'd prefer it to be with a nice v8 in it. overall id really just like a lumina ss from the mideast :D

Does this look like the lumina?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/lehighvalley1/photo4456_zpsfb97b9b5.jpg

[BigAls87Z28]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/12/2008-chevrolet-lumina-ss-24.jpg

This is the "aggressive" face that Nasty is talking about. I don't see what's so aggressive about it. It looks so tacked on and meh.

As for what the SS will look like....

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/4676/vfcommodore234.jpg

[LTb1ow]

Like the first image better.

When did GM get acquired by a euro trash car company?

[NastyEllEssWon]

Like the first image better.

When did GM get acquired by a euro trash car company?




thank you my good sir for affirming what im saying. that first image looks really good and fits the classic chevy style. open mouth, low chin, its been one of my fav things about chevys over the years.


http://www.motorstown.com/images/chevrolet-lumina-ss-6.0-02.jpg


this is the picture thats made me want one since ive seen it

[Jersey Mike]

Actually, I'm very much digging the car that Al linked to in the OP. The SS looks nice too.

I think they skimped on the rear though. Not a huge fan of the rear seat design either. Otherwise, I like it.

[BurninrubberGT]

I liked the VE better

[B4C]

thank you my good sir for affirming what im saying. that first image looks really good and fits the classic chevy style. open mouth, low chin, its been one of my fav things about chevys over the years.


http://www.motorstown.com/images/chevrolet-lumina-ss-6.0-02.jpg


this is the picture thats made me want one since ive seen it

Is that a lexus? :bertstare:

[BonzoHansen]

that white car looks like a rental car

[edpontiac91]

It reminds me of a Sonata, actually.

I like it, but I kind of hope the front end styling is different when it is badged for the USA.
It looks like a Nissan Infiniti. Almost has the lines of 40 other cars from Japan or Germany. The G8 GT was a homerun in the looks department.

[Mike]

It looks like a Nissan Infiniti. Almost has the lines of 40 other cars from Japan or Germany. The G8 GT was a homerun in the looks department.

A what?

[Slow-V6]

This new holden looks really pretty but damn what is up with GM turning there cars into Import looking cars? The C7 and now this. It looks like a Lexus or Genesis. They look really nice but they are missing that GM look to them.

[BigAls87Z28]

Yeah, what's with a car not made in America looking like a car not made in America?

[Jersey Mike]

By the responses here, you'd figure that Cobalt, Gen6 Malibu & ebay body kit sales were through the roof.

[spina74]

Al what are they considering asking for the 8 cyl.

[WayFast84]

I can't tell what car's being posted are which!! They all have subtle differences. Anyway, The grey holden al posted with the big ass picture is sexy. If that's what the SS will look like I'm sold.

[NastyEllEssWon]

By the responses here, you'd figure that Cobalt, Gen6 Malibu & ebay body kit sales were through the roof.




would buy a cobalt turbo if it was rwd :D

[V]

would buy a cobalt turbo if it was rwd :D
buy a Saturn sky redline ;-)

but i assume you'd want 4 seats lol

[NastyEllEssWon]

buy a Saturn sky redline ;-)

but i assume you'd want 4 seats lol



yeah thats the plan. normally id be in the market for a 2 seater or 2+2 but im figuring a 4 door with some power would be a more versatile choice, especially with the kid being older and toting around him and his friends

[BigAls87Z28]

Price will probably be about the same as what the G8 GXP was. As this will be the flagship car for Chevrolet, it will be priced above the new Impala.

[spina74]

Price will probably be about the same as what the G8 GXP was. As this will be the flagship car for Chevrolet, it will be priced above the new Impala.

I'm done college in December so I'll be able to afford it, goodbye cobalt haha

[NastyEllEssWon]

Price will probably be about the same as what the G8 GXP was. As this will be the flagship car for Chevrolet, it will be priced above the new Impala.


whats the price got to do with it being boring? if anything it should be nicer if its more expensive

[BigAls87Z28]

whats the price got to do with it being boring? if anything it should be nicer if its more expensive

Huh? Where did you get that?

Anyway, both Impala and SS will offer really top-notch interiors.

[LTb1ow]

GM top notch, or actual top notch?

[BigAls87Z28]

I can't tell what car's being posted are which!! They all have subtle differences. Anyway, The grey holden al posted with the big ass picture is sexy. If that's what the SS will look like I'm sold.

The one at the link is the Calais version, the higher trim one. It's the only car they have released at the moment. The performance variants of the Commodore and the actual Chevy SS will be released on Friday and Sunday, respectively.

[WayFast84]

the G8 GXP was around 38k right???

[BigAls87Z28]

About there, yeah.

[Blackbirdws6]

$38k sounds about right but many crested $41k. They still go for a pretty penny for nice examples.

[BonzoHansen]

$38k sounds about right but many crested $41k. They still go for a pretty penny for nice examples.

i've noticed that. i wonder how much that value will drop when this new rwd car hits the road.

[Blackbirdws6]

i've noticed that. i wonder how much that value will drop when this new rwd car hits the road.

I'm sure it will have an impact unless they price the new SS in the $45K+ range. I don't think it will affect the GT's too much considering they are usually ~$10k cheaper for a nice example used.

[WayFast84]

That's out of my price range :(

[Featherburner]

I'm sure it will have an impact unless they price the new SS in the $45K+ range. I don't think it will affect the GT's too much considering they are usually ~$10k cheaper for a nice example used.I still get letters/offers from Buick/GMC dealerships offering $26,500 for my G8. That's $2,000 less than I payed for it 4.5 years ago.

[NastyEllEssWon]

That's out of my price range :(



eh screw it, with the g8 body style looking better if this pushes the prices of them down it'll be win/win with money left over to get a holden front end kit :D

[WayFast84]

eh screw it, with the g8 body style looking better if this pushes the prices of them down it'll be win/win with money left over to get a holden front end kit :D

If I'm paying 25k+ for a car it needs to have a warranty. I'm a fan of 4 doors but If I could do without a warranty I'd get an 03/04 z06 for around the same price.

[WildBillyT]

If I'm paying 25k+ for a car it needs to have a warranty. I'm a fan of 4 doors but If I could do without a warranty I'd get an 03/04 z06 for around the same price.

Something to be said for age, too.

That '03 Z06 would be 10 years old.

[BonzoHansen]

Something to be said for age, too.

That '03 Z06 would be 10 years old.

agreed - comparing apples & bananas

[sweetbmxrider]

agreed - comparing apples & bananas

Yup, both are delicious. Especially with peanut butter :mrgreen:

[WayFast84]

Something to be said for age, too.

That '03 Z06 would be 10 years old.

AKA no Warranty..

I'm pretty freaking excited about this car though..

[BigAls87Z28]

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f70/holden-ss-v-show-car-lights-up-116375/

[WildBillyT]

That orange car is beautiful.

[coolmanvette75]

Wow that orange car is sweet. I hope that color makes production. Lol

[sweetbmxrider]

Looks like a Buick.

[BonzoHansen]

Everytime I see this thread I swear it says "New Commode"

[NJ Torque]

Everytime I see this thread I swear it says "New Commode"



:kneeslap:

[WildBillyT]

Everytime I see this thread I swear it says "New Commode"

I have been trying to work in a Lionel Richie joke but can't put it together.

[BonzoHansen]

I have been trying to work in a Lionel Richie joke but can't put it together.

She's high & mighty....




or
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-pGkeGjJTvs/SMqbZY4kN9I/AAAAAAAAGdA/Zk1its-PUcI/s320/buckwheat.jpg

[NastyEllEssWon]

looks like ill be test driving some dodges this spring or maybe a lightly used g8. the whole car is boring and just hideous. nice color ill give it that, but gm is certainly dropping the ball with everything lately...including the flagship corvette.

why cant an american car manufacturer actually make a car that looks like an american car. if i wanted a half assed german crapmobile id get a VW

[WildBillyT]

looks like ill be test driving some dodges this spring or maybe a lightly used g8. the whole car is boring and just hideous. nice color ill give it that, but gm is certainly dropping the ball with everything lately...including the flagship corvette.

why cant an american car manufacturer actually make a car that looks like an american car. if i wanted a half assed german crapmobile id get a VW

Jay, I think that's because that's the way all car manufacturers seem to be going. And that's kind of a trend. Look at 90's cheese wedges. Or '70s boat sedans. Or 60's wild colors. 50s fins and tailllights. All styling trends.

That's the way the market is going. And in the case of lesser brands than BMW, Audi, and Benz, the best way to get somebody to buy your car is to make it look like a better car than it is.

No Mercedes owner will ever be jealous of your Hyundai. But damned if they don't share some of the same styling.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Jay, I think that's because that's the way all car manufacturers seem to be going. And that's kind of a trend. Look at 90's cheese wedges. Or '70s boat sedans. Or 60's wild colors. 50s fins and tailllights. All styling trends.

That's the way the market is going. And in the case of lesser brands than BMW, Audi, and Benz, the best way to get somebody to buy your car is to make it look like a better car than it is.

No Mercedes owner will ever be jealous of your Hyundai. But damned if they don't share some of the same styling.



yeah i know what youre saying but damn, its like they have no identity to themselves at all anymore. i kinda liked how in the 90s you could look at a z24, z26 and a z28 and all see the lineage of where they come from within the gm stable. now it just seems like another me too car lost in the crowd of boring cookie cutter designs. looking at the new SS-V i can see bits of all different manufacturer design cues...kinda sucks.

[WildBillyT]

And most cars are silver. Such is life I guess.

[Blackbirdws6]

I still get letters/offers from Buick/GMC dealerships offering $26,500 for my G8. That's $2,000 less than I payed for it 4.5 years ago.

C'mon now. Classic bait and switch by the dealer. I would love to think our cars are valued that high but I just don't see it.

[BigAls87Z28]

looks like ill be test driving some dodges this spring or maybe a lightly used g8. the whole car is boring and just hideous. nice color ill give it that, but gm is certainly dropping the ball with everything lately...including the flagship corvette.

why cant an american car manufacturer actually make a car that looks like an american car. if i wanted a half assed german crapmobile id get a VW

Yeah, stupid non-American car company designing non-American looking cars. What were they thinking?

[Featherburner]

C'mon now. Classic bait and switch by the dealer. I would love to think our cars are valued that high but I just don't see it.Last time the car was at the dealer I was approached and offered $26,500. They had an 08 on the lot for $28,000 and it had 33,000 miles. A year older and three times the miles my car had. The 08 sold in 2 days. He said he couldn't get them fast enough. Said he had a list of people that wanted G8s.

[BigAls87Z28]

Jay, I think that's because that's the way all car manufacturers seem to be going. And that's kind of a trend. Look at 90's cheese wedges. Or '70s boat sedans. Or 60's wild colors. 50s fins and tailllights. All styling trends.

That's the way the market is going. And in the case of lesser brands than BMW, Audi, and Benz, the best way to get somebody to buy your car is to make it look like a better car than it is.

No Mercedes owner will ever be jealous of your Hyundai. But damned if they don't share some of the same styling.

Guy who rant Audi's design department, the guy responsible for all of Audi's current cars, is now Hyundai and Kia's VP of design. He has designed all the new Kias.

I don't see a single ounce of German car in this Australian one. Outside of the face and tail, the rest of the body looks like the G8.

[Blackbirdws6]

Last time the car was at the dealer I was approached and offered $26,500. They had an 08 on the lot for $28,000 and it had 33,000 miles. A year older and three times the miles my car had. The 08 sold in 2 days. He said he couldn't get them fast enough. Said he had a list of people that wanted G8s.

Crazy. He have any CTS-Vs on the lot? 8-)

[edpontiac91]

Something to be said for age, too.

That '03 Z06 would be 10 years old.

If you are going to consider this Vette, there are quite a few of them that have super low miles, are owned by ANAL Vet freaks (Vette underwear/shirts/ never driven in rain) and are waxed every weekend. These vehicles have not been abused or raced and usually are in better condition than anything 10 years old. These guys buy their toys just to take them to auto shows and back to the garage. When they get board with them, just go get something newer.

[sweetbmxrider]

Yeah, stupid non-American car company designing non-American looking cars. What were they thinking?

Your humor app has been spot on, GMbot. Bravo.

[WayFast84]

They unveil it today right? I'm playing the lotto ASAP.

[BurninrubberGT]

They unveil it today right? I'm playing the lotto ASAP.

tomorrow at 1pm

you can watch it here
http://www.chevrolet.com/culture/article/ss-performance-sedan-debut.html

[BigAls87Z28]

Here ya go: Chevrolet SS

http://www.autoguide.com/gallery/d/702367-2/2014-Chevrolet-SS-Dark.jpg (http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f70/2014-chevrolet-ss-performance-sedan-racing-dna-116415/)

[Blackbirdws6]

Amazing what good photography/editing will do for a car. Looks very nice in the pic above but kinda falls flat in the shot below.

http://i50.tinypic.com/20jfzth.jpg

[BigAls87Z28]

Stupid silver is stupid. Gold bowtie sticks out like a sore thumb.

[sweetbmxrider]

Definitely looks good in your shot but kinda meh in Brians.....which could be kinda sweet for those unaware :) It kinda looks lowered in the first pic too. What's up with that horrible monstrosity in the grill? Ruins it.

[WayFast84]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/12/2008-chevrolet-lumina-ss-24.jpg

This is the "aggressive" face that Nasty is talking about. I don't see what's so aggressive about it. It looks so tacked on and meh.

As for what the SS will look like....

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/4676/vfcommodore234.jpg

I need to see these pics next to each other.

Edit. I like everything but the emblem and the rocker panel of the Chevy. Can't wait for othe pictures in different colors.

[edpontiac91]

When you saw the 2008 Pontiac G8 GT for the 1st time, it was like WOW for every angle and still is today. The "NEW SS" looks like a large Malibu with the plainest front end and that stupid gold Chevy Bowtie! Even the new NASCAR SS looks meh.

[BonzoHansen]

Amazing what good photography/editing will do for a car. Looks very nice in the pic above but kinda falls flat in the shot below.

http://i50.tinypic.com/20jfzth.jpg

agreed. looks like a rental car nose in that pic

[WayFast84]

Just saw the Chevy site. They lost me at automatic.

[BurninrubberGT]

meh, I would still take a gxp over the ss

and the gxp is rarer, same performance, better looking, can be had in a 6 speed stick and will most likely be found cheaper.

[WildBillyT]

Just saw the Chevy site. They lost me at automatic.

One can hope it might just be first year only?

[Blackbirdws6]

Think someone needs to make a emblem delete grill or vinyl cover over the Chevy symbol.

[sweetbmxrider]

Chevy tends to be more mellow with their hopped up cars while pontiac is that annoying attention whore.....

[Blackbirdws6]

Chevy tends to be more mellow with their hopped up cars while pontiac is that annoying attention whore.....

Quoted for truth :rofl:

[WayFast84]

One can hope it might just be first year only?

I don't think my current car will last that long. :kneeslap:

Can anyone point out what differs between this car and the G8 besides the engine? I'd also like to know why it took so long to come to chevy?

[NastyEllEssWon]

puts money back in pocket and backs away slowly

[V]

Honestly, I don't like it...

I liked the G8 and Ive liked almost all the Holdens, but this falls short.
I believe am within the targeted market... out of school, starting a family, needing a 4dr but still want performance etc.
I was following this car only slightly because I felt it would end up too bland.

However, GM is lucky that I have enough loyalty that I will stay with the brand regardless. I just have to look at their other options. And of course that leads me to cadillac. In 2 years, I will be looking to replace my current cts-V with another 4 door performance sedan. As of now the only 2 real options I am considering are a 2011+ CTS-V or an ATS-V(hopefully). Of course neither will be brand new. Either off-lease or pre-owned. But if the Chevy SS could stand out, it would be in the same price range as my used cadillac options. Plus manual trans is an option I refuse to give up.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Honestly, I don't like it...

I liked the G8 and Ive liked almost all the Holdens, but this falls short.
I believe am within the targeted market... out of school, starting a family, needing a 4dr but still want performance etc.
I was following this car only slightly because I felt it would end up too bland.

However, GM is lucky that I have enough loyalty that I will stay with the brand regardless. I just have to look at their other options. And of course that leads me to cadillac. In 2 years, I will be looking to replace my current cts-V with another 4 door performance sedan. As of now the only 2 real options I am considering are a 2011+ CTS-V or an ATS-V(hopefully). Of course neither will be brand new. Either off-lease or pre-owned. But if the Chevy SS could stand out, it would be in the same price range as my used cadillac options. Plus manual trans is an option I refuse to give up.


I feel i too fall in the targeted demographics for this car as well. Im turning 30 this year, need the space of a 4 door for toting around my kid (who is turning 10) and his friends to different places. Been brand loyal for most of my life with GM and and financially stable enough to buy my first brand new car.

theres just not enough excitement in this car to warrant a purchase. sad to say.

[BigAls87Z28]

Silver against a ****** background kills the nice surfacing of the hood.
Rest of the body panels are the same as a G8, for the exception of the rear quarters and tail.

What's different than a G8 GXP? Whatever GM learned from the Camaro program was injected into VF, some minor weight reduction, a huge upgrade with the interior, and a few other tweaks that aren't that big of a deal.

The upper grill looks like the same tacked-on set up they had in the Lumina. Front fenders are smoother and blend too much into the body, where G8 had pronounced front fenders.

Showing it in silver is the dumbest move. Doesn't show off any of the new surfacing, can't tell where the bright work is on the car. Ugh, what a nightmare.

As for why it took so long? There are several theories. I wrote them up in an editorial about a year ago. The one that I had heard at a private event was that there could be legal action taken by former Pontiac dealers against GM if they brought out the car.
In reality, they wanted for the upgraded VF model so that they could bake in some Chevy-esque stuff into the car before it made production.

[NastyEllEssWon]

Silver against a ****** background kills the nice surfacing of the hood.
Rest of the body panels are the same as a G8, for the exception of the rear quarters and tail.

What's different than a G8 GXP? Whatever GM learned from the Camaro program was injected into VF, some minor weight reduction, a huge upgrade with the interior, and a few other tweaks that aren't that big of a deal.

The upper grill looks like the same tacked-on set up they had in the Lumina. Front fenders are smoother and blend too much into the body, where G8 had pronounced front fenders.

Showing it in silver is the dumbest move. Doesn't show off any of the new surfacing, can't tell where the bright work is on the car. Ugh, what a nightmare.

As for why it took so long? There are several theories. I wrote them up in an editorial about a year ago. The one that I had heard at a private event was that there could be legal action taken by former Pontiac dealers against GM if they brought out the car.
In reality, they wanted for the upgraded VF model so that they could bake in some Chevy-esque stuff into the car before it made production.



Eh i dont really care for the way the car looks like it has no depth at all. at least with the large chin with the lumina grille it looked like there was some muscle there. this car is just smooth all the way around, not really feeling it. especially the egg crate plastic grille. im a beretta fan sure, but the first thing we've always done was get rid of the egg crates for a solid or just dremel out the egg crates. i dunno, i already own an Ion which looks boring enough.

[1320B4U]

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/autosblogpost.aspx?post=2fa2b342-05df-43ce-8faa-6ae6bfa0661d%3Ficid

What is known:
ls3
rwd
415hp/415torque
Assembled in Holden plant
No manual trans offered (bummer)
Albeit, Supercharger friendly

[Slow-V6]

To plain. No thanks Chevy.

[BrandonDrecksage]

no manual trans=no thanks hopefully they will change they're mind, i've been waiting for a 4door v8 rwd car with a manual trans for a while...couldnt afford a g8 gxp when they were new...now i cant find one.

[edpontiac91]

no manual trans=no thanks hopefully they will change they're mind, i've been waiting for a 4door v8 rwd car with a manual trans for a while...couldnt afford a g8 gxp when they were new...now i cant find one.

Try looking for an SLP Firehawk Supercharged G8 GT. Only SEVEN were built!

[BurninrubberGT]

no manual trans=no thanks hopefully they will change they're mind, i've been waiting for a 4door v8 rwd car with a manual trans for a while...couldnt afford a g8 gxp when they were new...now i cant find one.

and if you can find one they haven't depreciated much unfortunately

problem is there's only 846 gxp's with the manual

[BonzoHansen]

I can't see wanting a 4 door daily driver with a stick. To each his own.

[Mike]

I can't see wanting a 4 door daily driver with a stick. To each his own.

Take 20 years and 2 kids out of your thinking :bertstare:

[NastyEllEssWon]

I can't see wanting a 4 door daily driver with a stick. To each his own.



the new automatics are just as fun to drive anyway. i just wish this car looked as fun to drive as it probably will be.

[sweetbmxrider]

See I think of it like the impala ss's and what not. GM gives you a hopped up package in a docile skin. Those who don't know what you have will quickly find out soon after :) Sleeper is cool, especially with 4 doors. I just wish that front grill didn't look like ass.

[BonzoHansen]

Take 20 years and 2 kids out of your thinking :bertstare:

Then I don't need a 4 door, btdt ;)

[Slow-V6]

See I think of it like the impala ss's and what not. GM gives you a hopped up package in a docile skin. Those who don't know what you have will quickly find out soon after :) Sleeper is cool, especially with 4 doors. I just wish that front grill didn't look like ass.

For me Having a old school car that is cheap and fast as a sleeper is one thing but spending 30,000 + on this because its a sleeper is different.

[sweetbmxrider]

I'm sure it has a couple more bells and whistles though ;-) I'm just saying I get that vibe from the car. Something that looks docile, that you can drive every day, that doesn't stick out in the pack, yet when you stomp on it the car will get up and go (I hope :lol:) So its like you are buying a Malibu or Impala but you actually have some balls too!

[Blackbirdws6]

the new automatics are just as fun to drive anyway. i just wish this car looked as fun to drive as it probably will be.

No way. Working the third pedal is way more fun.

[NastyEllEssWon]

No way. Working the third pedal is way more fun.




my point is if the car was nice enough exterior wise i wouldnt let a transmission choice be the deciding factor between purchasing. even if it did have a manual, i wouldnt be able to plunk down any change for a car that i dont like the looks of lol

[Blackbirdws6]

my point is if the car was nice enough exterior wise i wouldnt let a transmission choice be the deciding factor between purchasing. even if it did have a manual, i wouldnt be able to plunk down any change for a car that i dont like the looks of lol

For a DD, I let my commute usually dictate the choice of transmission. It's nice to throw it in drive and go wherever, especially dealing with traffic which is a common occurance in this state.

[NastyEllEssWon]

For a DD, I let my commute usually dictate the choice of transmission. It's nice to throw it in drive and go wherever, especially dealing with traffic which is a common occurance in this state.



I wouldnt be using it as a ''daily driver'' per se. i already have an ion thats for commuting and traveling to and fro. this was more like a car for fun that has the extra added utility to not have to park it to go pick up my kid and whatever heathens he has running around with him at the time :D

[WildBillyT]

For a DD, I let my commute usually dictate the choice of transmission. It's nice to throw it in drive and go wherever, especially dealing with traffic which is a common occurance in this state.

Or if you are ever on 287 near exit 10 or so from 3-6 PM.

[BonzoHansen]

For a DD, I let my commute usually dictate the choice of transmission. It's nice to throw it in drive and go wherever, especially dealing with traffic which is a common occurance in this state.

true.

[WayFast84]

For me Having a old school car that is cheap and fast as a sleeper is one thing but spending 30,000 + on this because its a sleeper is different.

You aren't paying for the sleeper, you're paying to have a nice new car, with a decent interior that can handle well, stop on a dime and has a decent acceleration and be that sleeper with a few mods. On top of that you get a warranty and the satisfaction of not being like every other person that V previously described as the target audience.

[Slow-V6]

You aren't paying for the sleeper, you're paying to have a nice new car, with a decent interior that can handle well, stop on a dime and has a decent acceleration and be that sleeper with a few mods. On top of that you get a warranty and the satisfaction of not being like every other person that V previously described as the target audience.

I hear you but I own a G8 and it is all of the above but looks a lot better. This Chevy looks like a basic looking rental car and for me no thanks. The way it looks isnt a bonus for me its the main reason why I dislike it.

[BigAls87Z28]

You realize that the only main difference between your car and the "rental" car is a hood, nose, and tail lights? Everything else is the same.

Maybe if they put some hood scoops on it, it would be more exciting to you folks.

[NastyEllEssWon]

You realize that the only main difference between your car and the "rental" car is a hood, nose, and tail lights? Everything else is the same.

Maybe if they put some hood scoops on it, it would be more exciting to you folks.



Ah I see. So in reality what your saying is that this car isnt new at all, its just a rehashed version of something that was previously on the market before, only brought out under a new name and boring corporate facelift in a thinly veiled attempt to ''revitalize'' an already stretched lineup.

thanks for clearing that up, totally makes me want to buy one now.

[WayFast84]

You realize that the only main difference between your car and the "rental" car is a hood, nose, and tail lights? Everything else is the same.

Maybe if they put some hood scoops on it, it would be more exciting to you folks.

Which is why Chevy shouldn't have taken 4 years to bring the car over.

My opinion is that they waited on purpose so they could refresh their older lineup. GM is lazy as hell and I'm sick of it.

Edit.

Just read Nasty's comment. Agreed 100%.

[WildBillyT]

Which is why Chevy shouldn't have taken 4 years to bring the car over.

My opinion is that they waited on purpose so they could refresh their older lineup. GM is lazy as hell and I'm sick of it.

Edit.

Just read Nasty's comment. Agreed 100%.

Cut them some slack. They went bankrupt.

[BonzoHansen]

well, just like the c7 with the uber-busy tail pan, I'll reserve judgement until i see one in person.

[Slow-V6]

You realize that the only main difference between your car and the "rental" car is a hood, nose, and tail lights? Everything else is the same.

Maybe if they put some hood scoops on it, it would be more exciting to you folks.

I hear you. Maybe if they kept it looking like the way it does in Australia it would be more exciting as well. The car looks normal. There is nothing wrong with that but for me a car has to catch my eye and this one does not.

Every damn lumina and chevy sedan on the street I am looking at now to see if its a SS.

[BigAls87Z28]

Ah I see. So in reality what your saying is that this car isnt new at all, its just a rehashed version of something that was previously on the market before, only brought out under a new name and boring corporate facelift in a thinly veiled attempt to ''revitalize'' an already stretched lineup.

thanks for clearing that up, totally makes me want to buy one now.

Which is why Chevy shouldn't have taken 4 years to bring the car over.

My opinion is that they waited on purpose so they could refresh their older lineup. GM is lazy as hell and I'm sick of it.

Edit.

Just read Nasty's comment. Agreed 100%.

VF is a slight revision, not an all new car. There are a lot of changes under the skin to some parts of the chassis, all-new interior, some weight-trimming, and some suspension tricks learned from Camaro, but they aren't "lazy".

They didn't wait on purpose, they wanted to launch the SS with the revised VF set up.

and an already "stretched" line up? Going to have to explain yourself there, big guy.

I hear you. Maybe if they kept it looking like the way it does in Australia it would be more exciting as well. The car looks normal. There is nothing wrong with that but for me a car has to catch my eye and this one does not.

Every damn lumina and chevy sedan on the street I am looking at now to see if its a SS.

It looks EXACTLY like it does in Australia. They swapped out a badge and flipped the interior.

[B4C]

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb435/its_dub/DSC_0053.jpg
lol

[maroman88]

lightly used demo police car... plenty of money left for a blower and other upgrades, bam

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FACTORY-CERTIFIED-2011-CHEVROLET-CAPRICE-POLICE-PATROL-VEHICLE-/251223291755?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a7e13376b

[WayFast84]

lightly used demo police car... plenty of money left for a blower and other upgrades, bam

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FACTORY-CERTIFIED-2011-CHEVROLET-CAPRICE-POLICE-PATROL-VEHICLE-/251223291755?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a7e13376b

I'd rather own a Prius than that car. FUGLY.

[BonzoHansen]

lightly used demo police car... plenty of money left for a blower and other upgrades, bam

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FACTORY-CERTIFIED-2011-CHEVROLET-CAPRICE-POLICE-PATROL-VEHICLE-/251223291755?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3a7e13376b
I wonder what trans is in that car...


I'd rather own a Prius than that car. FUGLY.

wanna be

[Featherburner]

I wonder what trans is in that car..6 speed auto...6l80e

[BonzoHansen]

6 speed auto...6l80e

nuts. i was hoping the cops got the hd 4l80e

[PolarBear]

I can't see wanting a 4 door daily driver with a stick.

Thats because Americans are lazy f&%#s.










Best way to prevent you car from being stolen is also a manual transmission.

[Mike]

Thats because Americans are lazy f&%#s.

I don't really think that it's that. It's just not a combo that appeals to everyone. I hated commuting a stick car. And if I was gonna spend 40k+ on a family sedan, I would ensure it was the most comfortable and versatile thing I could spend my money on.

Plus stick limits it to only me driving it. Which is a strike against spending that money

[PolarBear]

Plus stick limits it to only me driving it.

Brings me back to my original statement.

The ONLY acceptable reason NOT to drive manual transmission is to;
1) Loss of one arm, and in special cases both
2) Loss of one leg, and in special cases both

:rofl:


But in all seriousness, Americans are lazy motherf*****s. The problem is that Americans do NOT want to be connected to driving at all anymore. They want to get in the car and sleep while they commute, they don't want to have to think about anything while they drive, this includes following simple laws and common courtesy. Time and time again I have seen traffic CAUSED by people being lazy asses and proof of all of this is that the driving testing in this country is waaaaaaaaaay too easy. There are people in this country that should not be on the road, but they are able to because of automatic transmissions.

Back in the day they didn't even have automatic transmissions, then when they did they carried a premium price. Europe has been driving manual transmissions for a lot longer than we have.

[BonzoHansen]

It has nothing to do with being lazy. It's a PITA in daily driving, especially if it is a lot of stop & go. Been there, done that. Throw some young kids in the car and it's more of a hassle. I don’t need a manual transmission to feel manly and cool.

I have a 2 door fun car with a 6 speed. I see no reason to need a 4 door manual shift car.

[Jersey Mike]

I'm contemplating my transmission options for my next commuter car. Say what you will, but working in the city & dealing with rush hour gridlock on a day-in-day-out basis gets old.

We'll see.

[PolarBear]

I don’t need a manual transmission to feel manly and cool.

I didnt say it had anything to do with feeling manly and cool.

It's a PITA in daily driving, especially if it is a lot of stop & go.

This just reinforces my comment, PITA means you dont want to be bothered with using a clutch and shifting, i.e. want to be disconnected with what is going on. I know NO ONE feels like I do, but I think we would be better off if more people drove manual transmissions. People would be forced to pay more attention while driving

Say what you will, but working in the city & dealing with rush hour gridlock on a day-in-day-out basis gets old.

I've BTDT and I wish I had a manual transmission the whole time.

[BonzoHansen]

Virtually no one washes their clothes by hand, milks their own cow or writes letters with a pen & paper anymore either. Technology kind of makes those activities a lot less common place. And if the support for a manual trans is drivers will pay better attention I fail to see how giving people one more thing to think about while they drive is a solution to attentiveness. Honestly seems like a silly defense of driving a manual shift car. Just say you like it better and leave it at that.

Hey, check out old cars where the driver had to manually adjust timing themselves, and operate a choke. I know you wanted EFI that controlled timing because using old fashioned HEI style distributor was ineffective. you must be lazy not wanting to curve your HEI, or set it manually while driving. No, that’s not it. it’s because you embraced the modern technology that rendered it unnecessary.

Daily driving a stick in rt 1 or rt 9 traffic is a pain in the ass - it gets tiring after a while. I’d rather sit and listen to satellite radio than jerk around with a clutch anymore. I see nothing romantic or exhilarating about it day in and day out in a 4 door car – it’s not a race car. banging gears at 6000 RPM is fun. in & out of 1st or 2nd at 1500 rpm, not so much.

you’re right, no one said it had anything to do with feeling manly and cool. I assume that, just like you assume it has to do with laziness.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

One of the main selling points of the manual 4 door to me, is that it covers the basis of the practical sedan as well as the sporty car for the weekends, but it's commute dependent.

I know me, personally, am along the lines of Bear. Outside of a truck used for towing/plowing/etc, I cannot stand driving automatics. I get nearly as much joy driving a freakin' 13,000 lb International that takes forever to reach 45, let alone 60 as I do in the Camaro with the top up. In the Exploder, I'm constantly cursing the transmission for shifting when there was no need (both up and down).

And before anyone has said anything, I've been in said vehicle on a hill in traffic many times. Oh, and it has no radio or AC. Just a 3 foot tall shifter.

What bear alludes to regarding the other luxuries and things that take the eyes off the road (lane departure warnings, texting, etc) are a bigger culprit than people driving automatics IMO.

[WildBillyT]

Even high end euro cars have gone flappy paddles.

Refusing to learn to drive stick is lazy. Knowing how and choosing a different option is just preference.

My Malibu is a gutless Maytag but there have been a bunch of situations where the AT was a better deal. 3 hrs in traffic on 95 in Philly last month comes to mind. That's a long time doing clutchy-footy.

[BonzoHansen]

Even high end euro cars have gone flappy paddles.

Refusing to learn to drive stick is lazy. Knowing how and choosing a different option is just preference.

My Malibu is a gutless Maytag but there have been a bunch of situations where the AT was a better deal. 3 hrs in traffic on 95 in Philly last month comes to mind. That's a long time doing clutchy-footy.

:nod: my point.

[PolarBear]

Virtually no one washes their clothes by hand, milks their own cow or writes letters with a pen & paper anymore either.
Hey, check out old cars where the driver had to manually adjust timing themselves, and operate a choke. I know you wanted EFI that controlled timing because using old fashioned HEI style distributor was ineffective. you must be lazy not wanting to curve your HEI, or set it manually while driving.

ALL of these examples change your efficiency, or make it so you dont need to do them anymore, they have NOTHING to do with changing the time it takes you to get to a place while in traffic, so your theory is bunk.
Oh and I have driven a Model A and it was way more fun to drive than my Camaro. starter switch on the floor, optional turn signals, setting the timing while driving, choke, it was awsome. The manual drum brakes were quite scary though

Just say you like it better and leave it at that.

I do like it better but one could also use your examples against you, a manual transmission is also more efficient than an auto. But I know someone is going to say that the Auto is almost as, with technology most things get better.

Daily driving a stick in rt 1 or rt 9 traffic is a pain in the ass - it gets tiring after a while. I’d rather sit and listen to satellite radio than jerk around with a clutch anymore. I see nothing romantic or exhilarating about it day in and day out in a 4 door car – it’s not a race car. banging gears at 6000 RPM is fun. in & out of 1st or 2nd at 1500 rpm, not so much.

I have driven the daily in traffic on route one, for years and years, even before this job I have. I drive in bumper to bumper now all over the state too and I am grateful every time I have a manual transmission. But again you are enforcing my statement that people don't want to be connected with his/her commute or driving experience, I should not have said lazy at all, but it IS true. I know you are a going to be a better driver than most people so you specifically are not the issue, but IMO 99% of drivers are not going to be nearly attentive as you.
Automatics have allowed any idiot to drive that can reach the pedals and the steering wheel, but this doesn't mean they should. Parents dicking around with their kids while driving or in traffic, people eating whole meals, watching TV while driving. If they had manual transmissions they wouldnt be able to screw around like they do now. And your statements are showing what most other people are too, they are not putting the priority on the primary function here, driving.
I am not saying every car should spin high RPM or that everyone wants to go fast

I know me, personally, am along the lines of Bear. Outside of a truck used for towing/plowing/etc, I cannot stand driving automatics. I get nearly as much joy driving a freakin' 13,000 lb International that takes forever to reach 45, let alone 60 as I do in the Camaro with the top up. In the Exploder, I'm constantly cursing the transmission for shifting when there was no need (both up and down).
While I agree with you , this is not my entire point. :)

And before anyone has said anything, I've been in said vehicle on a hill in traffic many times.

Yep, been there plenty of times. :nod:

What bear alludes to regarding the other luxuries and things that take the eyes off the road (lane departure warnings, texting, etc) are a bigger culprit than people driving automatics IMO.

EXACTLY. People have become complacent, the main thing anyone driving a vehicle should be concerned with is that, Driving, NOTHING else. Driving manual transmission forces the driver to think about what he/she is doing more than with an Auto.

Even high end euro cars have gone flappy paddles.


We/I am not talking high end cars, at least I am thinking commuter cars here, in Europe a LOT greater percentage and manual transmission than we have in the USA. Part of the reason for the "flappy padles" is shift speed and/or dual clutch transmissions so you get the efficiency of a manual trans with auto like shift speeds.

Refusing to learn to drive stick is lazy.

Definitely

My Malibu is a gutless Maytag but there have been a bunch of situations where the AT was a better deal. 3 hrs in traffic on 95 in Philly last month comes to mind. That's a long time doing clutchy-footy. Been there done that would still do manual

[maroman88]

i gotta agree with one point at least... driving stick does make you pay attention to the road way more then in an auto, if u gotta shift u cant be distracted with other things in your hands... texting, eating....

[BonzoHansen]

now that is beat to death, let's get back on topic somewhat. Ok, for someone who would buy this new 4-door gm car if it had a stick, but it doesn't, what new car would they then turn to? What are the comparable new 4-door cars with a stick?

[Mike]

I have driven the daily in traffic on route one, for years and years, even before this job I have. I drive in bumper to bumper now all over the state too and I am grateful every time I have a manual transmission. But again you are enforcing my statement that people don't want to be connected with his/her commute or driving experience, I should not have said lazy at all, but it IS true. I know you are a going to be a better driver than most people so you specifically are not the issue, but IMO 99% of drivers are not going to be nearly attentive as you.
Automatics have allowed any idiot to drive that can reach the pedals and the steering wheel, but this doesn't mean they should. Parents dicking around with their kids while driving or in traffic, people eating whole meals, watching TV while driving. If they had manual transmissions they wouldnt be able to screw around like they do now. And your statements are showing what most other people are too, they are not putting the priority on the primary function here, driving.
I am not saying every car should spin high RPM or that everyone wants to go fast
Been there done that would still do manual

You went from a work car (auto) to a carpool since you have been At this job. Hardly worth mentioning when comparing driving in traffic

[PolarBear]

You went from a work car (auto) to a carpool since you have been At this job. Hardly worth mentioning when comparing driving in traffic

Had other cars that I commuted with up and down Rt1 in exclusively rush hour traffic manual and auto trans and I drive for work frequently in all area's of the state during peak and non-peak hours.

[sweetbmxrider]

If you are good at driving stick, you should be able to eat, text, dick with your kids, etc no problem :D

[BonzoHansen]

it's not a matter of being able to, it's a matter of wanting to.

Except texting. I think they are right, it's insanely dangerous most of the time!

BTW I know people on this site that cannot drive a stick....

[Mike]

it's not a matter of being able to, it's a matter of wanting to.

Except texting. I think they are right, it's insanely dangerous most of the time!

BTW I know people on this site that cannot drive a stick....

I know people in this thread that can't

[sweetbmxrider]

I know I can't :)

[LTb1ow]

Wall township says I can't

[Slow-V6]

I can drive my T/A on the street no problem, Just at the track is were I miss my gears!!

I love driving my T/A. I dont think I would have bought it if it was a Auto. The Corvette I wanted a Auto as I hate sitting in traffic with a 6 speed, and we drive the Corvette more then the T/A. @ the track I kinda wish my T/A was a Auto because its so much easier to run it. A/T, and M/T both have there advantages and disadvantages. I got into 4 accidents in my life and all were not serious. 2 were my fault and 2 were not. 2 of them happened in my A/T and 2 in a M/T. I slammed into a back of a car in my 86 Camaro which was a 5 speed because I was not paying attention.

[V]

I daily my v more than the cruze . the cruze was bought to be a snow/bad weather car, here in nj it sits now. i am so used to stick now, i automatically go for the clutch every time i start it, even if I've been driving it all day. my next car, if a performance model, will also be stick. the wife will learn to drive stick regardless. shifting becomes second nature after a while. i see why some commutes cause people to want auto and that's fine, i understand but one of the things that draws me to a "sports sedan" is a manual trans.

[Jersey Mike]

Ok, for someone who would buy this new 4-door gm car if it had a stick, but it doesn't, what new car would they then turn to? What are the comparable new 4-door cars with a stick?

I think this is a great question and is being overlooked. Would love to hear some discussion on this.

[PolarBear]

Ok, for someone who would buy this new 4-door gm car if it had a stick, but it doesn't, what new car would they then turn to? What are the comparable new 4-door cars with a stick?

I guess there really isnt one? The CTS-V may be the only option from GM

[Mike]

I guess there really isnt one? The CTS-V may be the only option from GM

Not at all comparable. It's double the price

[sweetbmxrider]

Cruze or Regal?

[PolarBear]

Not at all comparable. It's double the price

Yeah, I know. If GM had something in the class i would be interested but the CTS-V is really the only other car they sell in a manual transmission

[BonzoHansen]

Cruze or Regal?

not RWD V8 4-door cars, not comparable to me.

[PolarBear]

Cruze or Regal?

I don't think the Regal has a manual either. I just looked

[WildBillyT]

It does. 6 speed.

[sweetbmxrider]

not RWD V8 4-door cars, not comparable to me.

So you want gm to go back to reskinning a chassis into every flavor possible? I think the regal had awd but not anymore and isn't offered with the turbo :( Confirm with your local bigpal. Anyways, how large of a market is there for a gas guzzling v8 4 door with mediocre styling and interior trim? We aren't talking luxury here like the germans, just a hopped up motor in a day to day car.

I don't think the Regal has a manual either. I just looked

I've personally seen a bigpal ruin one :mrgreen:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Yc-IL2jCgd0/TlbL75lKydI/AAAAAAAAAeE/RGZciLQ7TfA/s1600/Buick_Regal_Gs_13.jpg (http://www.buick.com/regal-luxury-sport-sedan.html#PERFORMANCE)

Regal Turbo ups the ante with a 2.0L ECOTEC 4-cylinder intercooled turbocharged engine featuring direct cylinder fuel injection. A technological marvel, its dual-scroll turbo technology delivers 220 hp and 260 lb-ft of torque along with an EPA-est. 20 city/32 hwy mpg with manual transmission. Plus, Regal Turbo offers an available Interactive Drive Control System with real-time suspension damping that you won't find on the Acura TSX or the VW CC.

[Mike]

I wasn't thinking gm. Find ANY sedans between 40 and 50k. With 425+ hp and a stick. Once we have that list we can delve back into how cool of a car the SS will end up being.

[Mike]

Srt8 charger and Audi s6 are both auto, no offering at all from ford

[BonzoHansen]

So you want gm to go back to reskinning a chassis into every flavor possible? I think the regal had awd but not anymore and isn't offered with the turbo :( Confirm with your local bigpal. Anyways, how large of a market is there for a gas guzzling v8 4 door with mediocre styling and interior trim? We aren't talking luxury here like the germans, just a hopped up motor in a day to day car.

No, and that is my thought process here. people saying no stick in this car is a deal breaker, as if otherwise they’d buy this car. But how many comparable cars offer manuals? what I am seeing here is slim to none. I just don’t see a small car or a 2 door as the typical comparable. I don’t think the regal shopper is the same as the SS shopper, and I’d really be hard pressed to think the gear box is a primary decision point between the two. I’m sure there are a very few folks out there, I mean more in general.

So I don’t see no stick in the SS being a failure in the big picture. So I am probably siding with GayAl in all this.


aside: you mentioned the cruze, lol @ that. I have a cruze ltz. there is no way that car is comparable to a G8 in any driving sense.

[Featherburner]

EXACTLY. People have become complacent, the main thing anyone driving a vehicle should be concerned with is that, Driving, NOTHING else. Driving manual transmission forces the driver to think about what he/she is doing more than with an Auto.


i gotta agree with one point at least... driving stick does make you pay attention to the road way more then in an auto, if u gotta shift u cant be distracted with other things in your hands... texting, eating....These two statements are the opposite of the truth! While you are using a certain percent of your concentration bank on shifting, someone with an auto can use that percentage on figuring out an avoidance maneuver. You guys crash and the auto driver is home having dinner with their family!:lol:

[NastyEllEssWon]

I don't see the lack of a manual transmission in this car as big of a problem as how bland and outwardly plain this car is when you think its supposed to be a 4 door flagship sedan. Since this car is so closely related in the same generation (as per Al's information) as the G8, those that want a manual should probably buy one of those, since there was a manual offered iirc.

i just wish this car looked just as beastly as whats under the hood. I just cant see spending 30-40 grand on a car that im going to want to spend another 5 grand just in parts to make the front end look like i want it to look, with another 5 grand minimal in paint. i am however digging the new charger though

[Mike]

I don't see the lack of a manual transmission in this car as big of a problem as how bland and outwardly plain this car is when you think its supposed to be a 4 door flagship sedan. Since this car is so closely related in the same generation (as per Al's information) as the G8, those that want a manual should probably buy one of those, since there was a manual offered iirc.

i just wish this car looked just as beastly as whats under the hood. I just cant see spending 30-40 grand on a car that im going to want to spend another 5 grand just in parts to make the front end look like i want it to look, with another 5 grand minimal in paint. i am however digging the new charger though

if i was currently in the market for a 4 door sport sedan, it would be a charger at THIS moment. there are already rumors however of a lsa powered m6 ss with "more agressive" body styling to follow this year.

even if the lsa part is false, i can easily see the m6 and body changes coming... didnt the gxp follow the rest of the g8s by a year?

[donnj]

"GayAl" now were getting somewhere on this thread....

[sweetbmxrider]

No, and that is my thought process here. people saying no stick in this car is a deal breaker, as if otherwise they’d buy this car. But how many comparable cars offer manuals? what I am seeing here is slim to none. I just don’t see a small car or a 2 door as the typical comparable. I don’t think the regal shopper is the same as the SS shopper, and I’d really be hard pressed to think the gear box is a primary decision point between the two. I’m sure there are a very few folks out there, I mean more in general.

So I don’t see no stick in the SS being a failure in the big picture. So I am probably siding with GayAl in all this.


aside: you mentioned the cruze, lol @ that. I have a cruze ltz. there is no way that car is comparable to a G8 in any driving sense.

You know your cruze is a beast!

[BonzoHansen]

it's very nice and yet underwhelming. lol

[NastyEllEssWon]

if i was currently in the market for a 4 door sport sedan, it would be a charger at THIS moment. there are already rumors however of a lsa powered m6 ss with "more agressive" body styling to follow this year.

even if the lsa part is false, i can easily see the m6 and body changes coming... didnt the gxp follow the rest of the g8s by a year?



an lsa version with some body panels would put it up there pretty high in price but certainly sounds like something i wouldnt mind taking a loot at :D

[Mike]

an lsa version with some body panels would put it up there pretty high in price but certainly sounds like something i wouldnt mind taking a loot at :D

It would put it in the 50s. Any higher and they will encroach the ctsv

[Slow-V6]

Didnt the GTO when it came out in 04 look plain and bland? They waited a year to change it up to a more aggressive look and the car still tanked. Hope this isnt the case with this one. A could more aggressive looking changes and this thing would sell. The G8's sold very well as they had an aggressive look to them. I believe the GXP's were in both 08/09 as well for the G8's..

[WildBillyT]

Didnt the GTO when it came out in 04 look plain and bland? They waited a year to change it up to a more aggressive look and the car still tanked. Hope this isnt the case with this one. A could more aggressive looking changes and this thing would sell. The G8's sold very well as they had an aggressive look to them. I believe the GXP's were in both 08/09 as well for the G8's..

Yep.

'04 GTO came out and everybody bitched about the stying. They threw on the hood scoops and dual exhaust (and LS2) but it still did not do well.

In GM's defense thought (and Al will correct me I'm sure) I seem to remember them only having 9 mos - 1 year to convert the car over from Aussie to USA spec. That's not a lot of time to do everything right.

[Mike]

Didnt the GTO when it came out in 04 look plain and bland? They waited a year to change it up to a more aggressive look and the car still tanked. Hope this isnt the case with this one. A could more aggressive looking changes and this thing would sell. The G8's sold very well as they had an aggressive look to them. I believe the GXP's were in both 08/09 as well for the G8's..

The gto sales were picking up when the car died. It died because that generation of Holden ended.

Do you have documentation that g8 sold better specifically because of the aggressive look?

[townsend]

ford should now bring the falcon to the us too, then we could really have some fun. nonetheless, i like the new ss, and if i had that thing called credit i would definately buy one

[Featherburner]

I believe the GXP's were in both 08/09 as well for the G8's..Nope, late in the 09 run is when the GXP hit the market.

[Slow-V6]

The gto sales were picking up when the car died. It died because that generation of Holden ended.

Do you have documentation that g8 sold better specifically because of the aggressive look?


Sold better then what? The GTO? Then yeah I would say the reason it sold better then the GTO was because it looked more aggressive from the start. It caught your eye while driving. I dont have proof, but the car did sell well for the 2 years it was alive.

This new car doesnt catch my eye at all.

The G8's sold almost 40,000 cars in the 2 years of production. 1st year was from Mar-Dec and they sold 15,000 and in 09 they sold almost 24,000 cars. Not to bad.

[Mike]

I was asking if you had evidence to back up your comment that the g8 sold well because of appearance

[Tru2Chevy]

Sold better then what? The GTO? Then yeah I would say the reason it sold better then the GTO was because it looked more aggressive from the start. It caught your eye while driving. I dont have proof, but the car did sell well for the 2 years it was alive.

This new car doesnt catch my eye at all.

The G8's sold almost 40,000 cars in the 2 years of production. 1st year was from Mar-Dec and they sold 15,000 and in 09 they sold almost 24,000 cars. Not to bad.

GTO's total run for the 3 years was 40,808 with only one engine available each year. Would the G8 sales numbers still be better if you were only counting GT / GXP sales?

I won't argue that buyers wanted something more aggressive looking (I read somewhere that the hood scoops on the '05 GTO were actually an option and only about 25 out of 11,000 were ordered without them).

::edit::

'08 GT - 6,143
'09 GT - 16,486
'09 GXP - 1,829

Total V8 G8s = 24,458 (12,229 per year average)
Total GTOs = 40,808 (13,602 per year average)

- Justin

[Mike]

So the gto actually sold more. Cool.

[Slow-V6]

So the gto actually sold more. Cool.

The GTO had a 3 year run and the G8's had a 2 year run. The G8's sold 38,XXX cars in those 2 years and the GTO's sold 40,XXX cars in its 3 years.

Its GM's own fault they didnt offer engine options for the GTO's. Cars like the GTO were part of the reason why Pontiac doesnt exist anymore. They had a shot at making a bad ass car that looked bad ass and they blew it. Think they thought that a GTO should be a V8 and thats it. Dont know how many people would have bought a V6 GTO? Even in the 60's-70's were there V6 GTO's?

[Mike]

Compare apples to apples and take the v6 cars out.

[BigAls87Z28]

The GTO had a 3 year run and the G8's had a 2 year run. The G8's sold 38,XXX cars in those 2 years and the GTO's sold 40,XXX cars in its 3 years.

Its GM's own fault they didnt offer engine options for the GTO's. Cars like the GTO were part of the reason why Pontiac doesnt exist anymore. They had a shot at making a bad ass car that looked bad ass and they blew it. Think they thought that a GTO should be a V8 and thats it. Dont know how many people would have bought a V6 GTO? Even in the 60's-70's were there V6 GTO's?


No. There were no V6 GTOs. They started as a performance trim for the Tempest, then became its own car. It was V8 only and never had a V6.

GTO, G8, and now SS all look "tame" because they aren't designed to appeal to 15 year old kids. Hell, the 04-06 GTO was a gift to car guys so that GM had something affordable in the performance segment, something that could help alter Pontiac's image away from the body-cladding and nostril company.

[WildBillyT]

Al, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the GTO rushed as hell too? Like 9 months to convert the Holden over for US duty?

[PolarBear]

Cars like the GTO were part of the reason why Pontiac doesnt exist anymore.

Not really

[BigAls87Z28]

Al, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the GTO rushed as hell too? Like 9 months to convert the Holden over for US duty?

I don't know if you would call it rushed, but it wasn't very long from when Bob Lutz said go to when the first Monaros started rolling into Long Beach. It was never planned on coming to the US. It wasn't until Lutz wanted to bring something over from Australia did people start to wonder if it could happen.

Lutz wanted to see how fast GM could get a car from one side of the planet, certified for US emissions and crash standards, and on the market.
Remember that while the GTO only sold 13k a year here, they only sold about 1.3k in Australia and maybe another 5k elsewhere around the world. By American standards, it was a "flop" because it didn't sell in high five or six digit numbers.

G8 was designed and spec'ed to come to the US. The crash standards, the different guide lines, all that was baked into the VE chassis because of the "success" of the GTO. Holden was given a billion dollar budget to build its own chassis predicated on the fact that it would be sold here in the US. It felt like it took less time because when development started in 2005, so when the last GTO rolled in in 06, the first G8 was only two years behind.

GM now wanted to wait till VF came so that they didn't have any issues and could once again build up the car to appeal to American markets. Face it, if the G8 was brought out today, it wouldn't stack up to the likes of Charger much less anything sporty from Europe.
Just look at the advances made with Camaro and all the changes they have done since 2010.

The market for large V8 powered sedans isn't exactly booming, so to see GM even bothering with this vehicle can be viewed as them being up to their old tricks. You could even get upset with the fact that the Australian people are subsidizing the cost of the SS here so that they can preserve a few jobs back home. The equivalent SS in Australia will sell over 60k while we will get one near 40k.

Either way, it will sell in the 5-10k units they want it to, it will be a desirable vehicle once GM stops producing it, and then people will praise it for how GM used to offer affordable rear-drive V8 sedans while screaming at them for only offering turbo 4 econoboxes.
Same ****, different year.

[sweetbmxrider]

:lol: that last bit is so true

[Jersey Mike]

Face it, if the G8 was brought out today, it wouldn't stack up to the likes of Charger much less anything sporty from Europe.


While I do like the G8 a lot, I think you're right with this statement.

[Tru2Chevy]

Cars like the GTO were part of the reason why Pontiac doesnt exist anymore. They had a shot at making a bad ass car that looked bad ass and they blew it. Think they thought that a GTO should be a V8 and thats it. Dont know how many people would have bought a V6 GTO? Even in the 60's-70's were there V6 GTO's?

Care to explain that first sentence?

IMHO, GTO was the only name brought back from the muscle car years that GM actually did right by. As Al said, there were no v6 GTOs. GTO started life as a plain jane family car (Tempest / LeMans) with a big-ass engine and a few other performance doo-dads thrown into the mix. It wasn't some new, wild looking car back then, and when they brought it back they did the same thing.

- Justin

[BonzoHansen]

While I do like the G8 a lot, I think you're right with this statement.

I dunno, i think the new charger it fugly, as was the old one. G8 looks way better to me.

[WildBillyT]

I dunno, i think the new charger it fugly, as was the old one. G8 looks way better to me.

Yep. I think by the time it hit Pontiac was already swirling the drain. It never had a chance.

[Jersey Mike]

I dunno, i think the new charger it fugly, as was the old one. G8 looks way better to me.

But do you think you're in the majority?


Yep. I think by the time it hit Pontiac was already swirling the drain. It never had a chance.

I agree with you that Pontiac was already on it's way down, but I just think that if the G8 was out today it wouldn't be able to compete in sales with everything else that's out there in the $30-$40k segment. Performance will only get you so far before "perception" takes over--enter Euros & Charger's muscle car/"Hemi" badges.

[NastyEllEssWon]

As of right now the charger is the nicest v8 american sedan on the market. i dont see how anyone cant like it. its aggressive and still classy...plus im a sucker for wall to wall rear tail lamps. I understand all the hoopla about chevy rwd and big cars blah blah blah but theres still no reason to make it even plainer than my saturn ion looks. even my gf thought it was pretty crappy looking (new ss).

[BonzoHansen]

new charger is fugly and those tail lights are abysmal, they look like an after thought. plus it's a dodge, good luck with that. Brian's and John's cars look much nicer.


am I in the majority? don't care. but none of my friends other than chevelle jon like it. and he is silly.

[BurninrubberGT]

Cars like the GTO were part of the reason why Pontiac doesnt exist anymore.

huh?

[NastyEllEssWon]

new charger is fugly and those tail lights are abysmal, they look like an after thought. plus it's a dodge, good luck with that. Brian's and John's cars look much nicer.


am I in the majority? don't care. but none of my friends other than chevelle jon like it. and he is silly.




as bad as the charger is, you can't seriously say that the chevy is even marginally better.

[BonzoHansen]

No, I am referring to the comment “if the G8 was brought out today, it wouldn't stack up to the likes of Charger”.

I have not seen a Chevy SS in person to have an opinion yet.

[PolarBear]

new charger is fugly and those tail lights are abysmal, they look like an after thought. plus it's a dodge, good luck with that. Brian's and John's cars look much nicer.

:lol:

:nod:

[Featherburner]

new charger is fugly and those tail lights are abysmal, they look like an after thought. plus it's a dodge, good luck with that. Brian's and John's cars look much nicer.


am I in the majority? don't care. but none of my friends other than chevelle jon like it. and he is silly.
I agree but, I'm kind of bias!:wink:

[sweetbmxrider]

As of right now the charger is the nicest v8 american sedan on the market. i dont see how anyone cant like it. its aggressive and still classy...plus im a sucker for wall to wall rear tail lamps. I understand all the hoopla about chevy rwd and big cars blah blah blah but theres still no reason to make it even plainer than my saturn ion looks. even my gf thought it was pretty crappy looking (new ss).

You and I both know its a Chrysler product. That's reason enough to run the **** away :bertstare: And I can say without hesitation that a cts-v is a much nicer american v8 sedan.

[NastyEllEssWon]

You and I both know its a Chrysler product. That's reason enough to run the **** away :bertstare: And I can say without hesitation that a cts-v is a much nicer american v8 sedan.



CTS-V's arent bad but i like the look of the charger and the lumina ss better. not to mention its probably like 15-20k out of my price range. i havent looked at any v's but i would imagine theyd start out around 50k, when you get into that price range a large other cars come into mind that i'd rather spend 50 grand on. 30 to low/mid 40s would be about the area im looking to stay, if i go any higher than that I might as well say screw utility and get a vette.

[maroman88]

comparing a G8 to the new charger? i still think the G8 wins, although ive only been in police packaged chargers lol, the new charger is nice, and i LOVE the taillights, but i doubt its better over all then a G8

[Mike]

Comparing a v to the charger? Lol

[PolarBear]

start out around 50k,

The V starts over 60k

[NastyEllEssWon]

The V starts over 60k



yeah well see there you go. no reason to even consider a v when its double my starting price range. honestly i didnt even think of a V series when considering a new car, probably because like mike is laughing about over there, theyre just not in the same category really.

i dont get the big hate on the charger? is there something im missing thats supposed to make them undesirable?

[WildBillyT]

yeah well see there you go. no reason to even consider a v when its double my starting price range. honestly i didnt even think of a V series when considering a new car, probably because like mike is laughing about over there, theyre just not in the same category really.

i dont get the big hate on the charger? is there something im missing thats supposed to make them undesirable?

Chrysler.

[BigAls87Z28]

New Charger looks heads and shoulders above the last generation. Cleaner, sharper, better looking in every single department.
Charger has more upgrades on the inside that make the G8 obsolete. It's not design I was talking about, it's everything else. The Charger is a better product now than both the last gen Charger and G8 were then. Remove the G8's hood, and it looks like a really handsome and clean look. The SS shares just about every single body line, but this time gets a really nice hood.

[coolmanvette75]

Care to explain that first sentence?

IMHO, GTO was the only name brought back from the muscle car years that GM actually did right by. As Al said, there were no v6 GTOs. GTO started life as a plain jane family car (Tempest / LeMans) with a big-ass engine and a few other performance doo-dads thrown into the mix. It wasn't some new, wild looking car back then, and when they brought it back they did the same thing.

- Justin
I agree with this. GTO, whether you like it or not, really did stick to its roots. Cheap, simple, and fast. Think about it. New Charger, 4 door heap. New Dart, 4 cylinder eco box. New Challenger, underpowered and over weight compared to its 60s/70s counterpart. Chrysler has failed miserably thus far at bringing names back.