Sixth Gen Time

[BigAls87Z28]

Well, for those who know or might not know, Chevrolet will be showing off the sixth generation Camaro on May 16th at Belle Isle.

Design wise, it's staying pretty close to the fifth gen's contempo-retro design but where it's built and what it's built on will change.
Production will move back to 'Murica as it will be produced at GM's fancy Lansing Grand River plant and will be sitting on GM's Alpha platform, a lightweight rear-drive program that has been exclusive to Cadillac's ATS and CTS.
How much weight will it lose? GM announced last week that the Camaro will lose at least 200lbs over the current model, bringing the car into the 3400-3700lbs range, depending on equipment.
Power? 2.0T, 3.6 will come from Cadillac while Corvette loans its baby brother the 460hp LT1. Transmissions will most likely be a six speed manual for the 4 and 6 while the LT1 gets a 7 speed followed by a six or eight speed automatic transmission.

Pricing and options will most likely mirror the Mustang and performance models to be shown over the first few model years.

Link here takes you to close up pictures of the car: http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2015/04/2016-chevy-camaro-spied-close-up.html

Exhaust sound of the LT1 powered Camaro.

https://youtu.be/oPsj-8Xke3M

[V]

and here's the headlight....

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/parts4/imageedit_5_9476399928_zps1ystgrxd.jpg

[BigAls87Z28]

There ya go.

[ar0ck]

I'm down, maybe it'll allow me to get a late 10' or 14' model!

[Blackbirdws6]

They won't mess with a formula that is selling well. Hopefully the weight savings targets are real.

[BonzoHansen]

Any new news?

[Paul Huryk]

Agreed.

Although I'm not holding my breath on anything until the final product hits the showrooms.

I live within walking distance of Malouf Chevy on Rt1 and every trailer of new cars coming in is Camaros and Corvettes the last few months...



They won't mess with a formula that is selling well. Hopefully the weight savings targets are real.

[NJSPEEDER]

Wouldn't the 3400-3700 weight range make it similar to typically equipped 4th gens? That would be a nice step in the right direction.

Question about the 2.0 turbo, how much power will it have? Seems like 300 or more HP has become the standard for base model pony cars. Just wondering if they believe weight savings will make up the difference or if it will be at a price that would make people less likely to pick up a 6 cyl?

[V]

Question about the 2.0 turbo, how much power will it have? Seems like 300 or more HP has become the standard for base model pony cars. Just wondering if they believe weight savings will make up the difference or if it will be at a price that would make people less likely to pick up a 6 cyl?


well the 2.0T in the ats currently makes 272, thats 12hp over the 2.0T in the late 2000s LNF ecotech motors(260hp - sky redline, solstice gxp, cobalt/hhr ss) and then GM had a stage 2 tune available which upped the autos cars to 295hp and 315TQ and the manual cars got over 300hp. and i think it was 325tq. If they use that tune perhaps the Camaro 2.0T would have just over 300hp.

[NJSPEEDER]

Does the ATS tune up require premium fuel? I know when Little G did the Stage upgrade to his Soltice GXP that was one of the requirements, I believe the car could run on mid grade with the factory tune.

[V]

Does the ATS tune up require premium fuel? I know when Little G did the Stage upgrade to his Soltice GXP that was one of the requirements, I believe the car could run on mid grade with the factory tune.

edit: i misread your post...my moms ats is fine on regular as far as i remember.

Yes, Premium fuel was required.[ecotech stage II tune ]
I did the tune on my SKY as well. It was a huge improvement.
I also did the GMPP cold air intake, aftermarket intercooler, hard intercooler piping, and magnaflow catback all at the same time. The car was much faster than stock and it didnt "de-tune" itself in response to bolts-ons like the car would with a factory tune. I even bought a better wastegate spring but never installed it, it's sitting in my tool box still.

[Paul Huryk]

I think that is just the car, not including the driver - so 3600 to 3900lbs with a 200lb person?

With a 300hp turbo 4, the v6 makes less sense since it would have less TQ, even at 3.6L like the 5th gens and other GM cars have (and 320hp). Not to mention a lot more upside power than the V6 could ever have - isn't MB running a 345hp 2.0 in their top of the line AMG small sedan?



Wouldn't the 3400-3700 weight range make it similar to typically equipped 4th gens? That would be a nice step in the right direction.

Question about the 2.0 turbo, how much power will it have? Seems like 300 or more HP has become the standard for base model pony cars. Just wondering if they believe weight savings will make up the difference or if it will be at a price that would make people less likely to pick up a 6 cyl?

[BigAls87Z28]

They won't mess with a formula that is selling well. Hopefully the weight savings targets are real.

Agreed.

Although I'm not holding my breath on anything until the final product hits the showrooms.

I live within walking distance of Malouf Chevy on Rt1 and every trailer of new cars coming in is Camaros and Corvettes the last few months...


The weight savings are 100% real. None of it is rumored as it was published and put into a press release. They also said that the car is 28% stiffer, for those thinking that the fifth gen didn't feel strong, I guess?

The Camaro SS should drive like the current 1LE, but missing 150-200lbs.

[BonzoHansen]

It will have wheels and brakes lol

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/04/09/2016-chevy-camaro-teasers/

[sweetbmxrider]

The weight savings are 100% real. None of it is rumored as it was published and put into a press release. They also said that the car is 28% stiffer, for those thinking that the fifth gen didn't feel strong, I guess?

They probably said that because so much weight is being removed. The naive would think less weight = less strength.

[LTb1ow]

They probably said that because so much weight is being removed. The naive would think less weight = less strength.

Weight loss just means money was spent to design it better and less overkill. Silly engineers, making **** heavy.

[sweetbmxrider]

Weight loss just means money was spent to design it better and less overkill. Silly engineers, making **** heavy.

Ya def. Prob help save money redesigning to use less material as well 8-)

[NastyEllEssWon]

I just wish they would get away from the hideous 5th gen design and produce something mean looking. Judging from the camo covered shots it looks like its going to be very similar looking with gaudy taillights. Why buy this car when you can get 5th gens for half the price.

[The_Bishop]

Er, off the top of my head: weight loss, power train improvements, handling improvements, interior improvements, looks like visibility may be improved.

Yeah, no reason to buy one.

Also, if I'm laying out that kind of cash, I'd rather have a new muscle car, not one that has a questionable history.

[sweetbmxrider]

Gen V platform (Am I referencing that correctly, Al?) should be a really nice addition. Seems to be doing ok in the c7.

[BigAls87Z28]

Weight loss just means money was spent to design it better and less overkill. Silly engineers, making **** heavy.

Fifth gen was based on an preexisting chassis designed for large vehicles, the G8/SS/Commodore and even larger cars like the Caprice.
It is hard to make a big car small and keep focused on weight. It's the issue BMW has with the current 5 series as it is based on the same platform as the current 7, and now the 5 is one of the heaviest cars in it's class with a dramatic drop in the "ultimate driving" aspect.

This Sixth Gen is based on a small, rear-drive platform that was designed to underpin a lightweight sports sedan for Cadillac and has been expanded to accept a larger midsized car.

The Sixth gen will take advantage of an American designed, American developed, and for the first time since 1992, an American Made Camaro.

I just wish they would get away from the hideous 5th gen design and produce something mean looking. Judging from the camo covered shots it looks like its going to be very similar looking with gaudy taillights. Why buy this car when you can get 5th gens for half the price.

While your opinion has been noted, you must accept the fact that the Fifth Gen Camaro is one of the best selling Camaro generations, and that a car like this sells based on how it attaches to people's emotions and feelings.

Your feelings do not align with the general population.

Why buy this car? I believe Bishop explains it very well.

Er, off the top of my head: weight loss, power train improvements, handling improvements, interior improvements, looks like visibility may be improved.

Yeah, no reason to buy one.

Also, if I'm laying out that kind of cash, I'd rather have a new muscle car, not one that has a questionable history.

Gen V platform (Am I referencing that correctly, Al?) should be a really nice addition. Seems to be doing ok in the c7.

Platform tends to be associated with the chassis, so you can just say LT1 or Gen V small block.

[LTb1ow]

I would be very curious to look at the sales age demographics of the 5th and 6th gen when it comes out. Is that info available to gen pop?

[NastyEllEssWon]

I would be very curious to look at the sales age demographics of the 5th and 6th gen when it comes out. Is that info available to gen pop?


Id be interested in seeing that too, also the breakdown of V6 vs V8 performance models because I hardly see any SS's or better roaming around the streets. Theyre all v6 ecocrapboxes, which is fine, I get they need the base model to be able to sell the performance model, but it seems like Chevy is playing catchup in the performance area. Even the Mustangs seem to be EVERYWHERE...Im wondering where the hell all these Camaros that sold are.

I did forget about the new lt1 motor going into the 6th gens...thats pretty cool.

[BonzoHansen]

omg i see 5th gens everywhere. you must be blind. lol

[LTb1ow]

omg i see 5th gens everywhere. you must be blind. lol

SS and or Z28 badged ones?

I rarely if ever see that level, mostly sixers.

[sweetbmxrider]

I see them as often as I see stangs and mopar

[BonzoHansen]

SS and or Z28 badged ones?

I rarely if ever see that level, mostly sixers.

SS cars yes.

not z28s, they are kind of rare.

I also see 6cyl 4th gens.

[Paul Huryk]

Fifth gen was based on an preexisting chassis designed for large vehicles, the G8/SS/Commodore and even larger cars like the Caprice.
It is hard to make a big car small and keep focused on weight. It's the issue BMW has with the current 5 series as it is based on the same platform as the current 7, and now the 5 is one of the heaviest cars in it's class with a dramatic drop in the "ultimate driving" aspect.


BMW and others have a real problem with "size inflation" - the new 3 series is as large as the 5 series of 2 generations ago, same for the 5 series and so on... Problem is that every generation gets a few inches larger in width, wheelbase, interior size, amenities - so they are getting "fatter".

It is rare to find cars that are light, raw (as in less amenities and weight) these days - the Miata, the new Alfa coupe, and maybe the Mini Cooper. Old stallwarts like the 3 series, Boxster, small MB, and others have gained a lot of weight and have dulled the driving experience.

[Featherburner]

omg i see 5th gens everywhere. you must be blind. lolThis!
I just drove 14 miles roundtrip and saw 7 5th gen Camaros. 4 were SS and 3 were 6 cylinder models. I even saw a G8 which I hardly ever see.

[NastyEllEssWon]

I guess it just must be the areas. I NEVER see any 5th gens around and when I do theyre always 6 banger trim level. Rarely do I see any SS's and Ive never seen a ZL1 or Z28 up close on the road.

[BonzoHansen]

This!
I just drove 14 miles roundtrip and saw 7 5th gen Camaros. 4 were SS and 3 were 6 cylinder models. I even saw a G8 which I hardly ever see.

the other day i saw a gxp or whatever the uber-g8 was.

historically i bet most camaros & mustangs came with base/lo-perf engines. and the current 300hp V6 engines are better than a lot of old V8s, at least on paper. so it is not surprising that you might see more v6 cars.

[V]

323hp v6's ;)

[NastyEllEssWon]

the other day i saw a gxp or whatever the uber-g8 was.

historically i bet most camaros & mustangs came with base/lo-perf engines. and the current 300hp V6 engines are better than a lot of old V8s, at least on paper. so it is not surprising that you might see more v6 cars.



I just remember typically I'd see as many Camaros on the road as Mustangs over the years but with the 5th gens I'd probably say I see 5 Mustangs to every 5th Gen Camaro and twice as many Challengers. I know the sales figures are there but I just havent seen them around on the roads. In fact I saw 4 new Corvettes this week and cant recall seeing any Camaros other than the ones on the dealer lots on 130. I know Im not just missing them because I dont like them, because everytime I see one I point out how much I dont like them. :kneeslap:

[V]

I've seen probably less than 20 2014/2015 camaros since I've gotten my '14. I usually see 1-2 other fifth gens a week.
The 2016 will be nice, and not like the previous years exactly. but still not a big enough change in my opinion. Its more like the c5-c6 corvette changeover. some sharper lines and modified styling but not as big a change as the c4-c5 changeover.

[BigAls87Z28]

Id be interested in seeing that too, also the breakdown of V6 vs V8 performance models because I hardly see any SS's or better roaming around the streets. Theyre all v6 ecocrapboxes, which is fine, I get they need the base model to be able to sell the performance model, but it seems like Chevy is playing catchup in the performance area. Even the Mustangs seem to be EVERYWHERE...Im wondering where the hell all these Camaros that sold are.

I did forget about the new lt1 motor going into the 6th gens...thats pretty cool.

I will say that it's somewhat harder to identify the SS cars now with the revised face. Now, you have to look at the hood, BUT I do see a LOT. And I wouldn't call the V6 "ecocrapboxes" when they offer the most powerful V6 engine.
And Chevy is playing catch up with performance? While they don't offer a 707hp supercharged car that you might or might not be able to buy, depending on the alignment of the planets and the generosity of FCA, Ford and Chrysler have nothing to compete with the Z/28, the Camaro SS offers the best bang for the buck, the 1LE is one of the best drivers cars under 40k, AND the next car is going to be even better!
Ford, they promised a lighter weight IRS equipped Mustang, and what they brought out was reality: a car that is 150-200lbs heavier than the last generation.
Chrysler...well... outside of the hard to get Hellcat and Viper on life support, they have nothing.


BMW and others have a real problem with "size inflation" - the new 3 series is as large as the 5 series of 2 generations ago, same for the 5 series and so on... Problem is that every generation gets a few inches larger in width, wheelbase, interior size, amenities - so they are getting "fatter".

It is rare to find cars that are light, raw (as in less amenities and weight) these days - the Miata, the new Alfa coupe, and maybe the Mini Cooper. Old stallwarts like the 3 series, Boxster, small MB, and others have gained a lot of weight and have dulled the driving experience.

I'm not talking about general "mission creep" of sizes, but the cars they make for each class tend to be heavier than the competition.

There is a focus for many automakers to trim weight. The new ND Miata is a few pounds lighter than the first gen NA, which is quite remarkable.
The Alfa 4C is actually pretty big when compared to cars like the 124, but small for it's class and the Mini has nearly doubled in size.


I've seen probably less than 20 2014/2015 camaros since I've gotten my '14. I usually see 1-2 other fifth gens a week.
The 2016 will be nice, and not like the previous years exactly. but still not a big enough change in my opinion. Its more like the c5-c6 corvette changeover. some sharper lines and modified styling but not as big a change as the c4-c5 changeover.

Design wise, sure, but there will be a dramatic change under the skin and how the car drives.

[BonzoHansen]

i tend to look at the brakes to id them

[maroman88]

i have seen 6 brand new Challenger R/T's and up, this week alone, with temp tags on them

[BonzoHansen]

For those of you that do not follow NJFBOA on twitter or facebook....

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/2016-chevrolet-camaro-revealed-early-cnbc-153335171.html

[NJSPEEDER]

I've seen probably less than 20 2014/2015 camaros since I've gotten my '14. I usually see 1-2 other fifth gens a week.
The 2016 will be nice, and not like the previous years exactly. but still not a big enough change in my opinion. Its more like the c5-c6 corvette changeover. some sharper lines and modified styling but not as big a change as the c4-c5 changeover.

I can't find it right now but there was an article about this recently. The working premise is that if you have a model that is successful, in both sales and image, it is better to evolve the styling and shape so as to keep the same recognition level as the previous itteration.

The example in the article was that of the 911. If you look at an original and a new one the difference is pretty dramatic in size and shape while still beign basically recognizable. Lining up the generations you can exactly follow how the shape evolved and easily recognize each one as a 911.

The Camaro is a very success model in the segment so it makes sense to follow a similar redesign/evolution model. As long as there are enough physical differences to tell them apart and enough performance/value/comfort updates to make it worthwhile people will, in theory, continue to desire the next one each time it coems along.

[KevinW]

For those of you that do not follow NJFBOA on twitter or facebook....

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/2016-chevrolet-camaro-revealed-early-cnbc-153335171.html


Oops, leaked early! :D those Darn reporters trying to get scoops

I will have to see them in person for my opinion.

[V]

From my own collection of parts, the 2016's headlight....


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/2015-02-12162334_zps6obzmuay.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/5_zps19qsd519.jpg
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/2015-02-12163203_zpsw0hnzxxl.jpghttp://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/2015-02-12162314_zpsgzsarfwz.jpghttp://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d50/SmokingSS/2_zps4snxu9qv.jpg

[ThoR294]

all I see are 5th gens... Try going to 5th gen... I mean GM nationals. lol. So many 5th gens, and most are v6s!!! I still think the 4 cylinder is silly, and maybe its because I was brought up old school by my father and his big block oldsmobile ways

[ar0ck]

It's nice, I'm seeing the photos flood my Instagram, but the 2014 is my favorite of the latest incarnations.

[V]

I saw pics. Not bad. But not enough to make a huge deal about. The real amazing things would have to lie in what we can't see, like power-trains and handling.
I'm not knocking it, but I'd not throwing on my shoes and running to the dealer to order one either.

[NastyEllEssWon]

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/k2DB713aKAt3JsAVdmePWOw1Tmk=/1020x0/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3702556/camaro-reveal-004-2040.0.jpg



This is now officially the worst looking camaro with the last generation coming in slightly in front. Mustang and Challenger all the way.

[The_Bishop]

I don't agree with you. I happen to like the evolving design.

[NastyEllEssWon]

I feel like they never evolved the design. they just killed off the camaro from 2002 and slapped the name tag on the next RWD car because mustangs were raking in money after the camaro was killed. This is why Im a fan of F-bodies and not camaros specifically.

[BigAls87Z28]

All the complaints that most of you have against the fifth gen has been fixed.
Smaller and lighter weight? Check
More Power? Check
Manual transmission standard across all three engines? Boom
Better handling? Done
Better interior? Done and done well

The face looks great and much more aggressive now. I love the headlight design. The rear doesn't sit right with me right now and the body surfacing on the door seems a little high. I don't like the placement of the badges in the lower grill and on the lower part of the bumper.

I've driven the ATS with the 2.0t and 3.6 and I have to say that the ATS with the 3.6 was a very fun drive and it sounded great. The 2.0T was good too, but the overall sensation of speed was felt differently with the 3.6.

And then the LT1...well...that thing is a monster.

[Frosty]

Not enough to make me jump generations. I don't dislike it but I'm not in love with it...exterior wise anyway. The interior is f'in gorgeous....

I do like that it's upwards of 250#'s lighter. Does anyone see the catfish front end? ;)

I guess I'll have to wait until they hit dealerships to reserve final judgement....almost makes me wish I stayed writing service for GM....almost.

[WayFast84]

I think I need to see this car in person and next to a 5th gen.


SS and or Z28 badged ones?

I rarely if ever see that level, mostly sixers.

To be fair I've only seen one Z28 and it was at a dealership. I do see a lot of V6's though and a decent amount of V8's.

[Frosty]

SS and or Z28 badged ones?

I rarely if ever see that level, mostly sixers.

Z28's are rare...you're probably not gonna see one on the road, maybe at a car show(awesome cars to drive BTW, such anger...and handling...it's beautiful).

Sadly most are 6 bangers BUT that's OK...that keeps GM making $$$ so they can build the REAL ones. :)

[V]

Sadly most are 6 bangers BUT that's OK...that keeps GM making $$$ so they can build the REAL ones. :)

And also, those stock v6s can beat many, not all, of the built v6s from a decade ago.



The turbo 4 option is very interesting. I like it. A cool build would be for someone to swap the new 4 cyl into an older early 3rd gen that originally came with the iron duke 4 cyl.

[Frosty]

And also, those stock v6s can beat many, not all, of the built v6s from a decade ago.





Oh absolutely...but have you talked to many V6 owners? Go take a peak on the message boards or Camaro5's Facebook page....they give me a migraine. :kneeslap:

I'm just glad in '14 the SS/RS hoods have the heat extractors, something that separates the 8's from the 6's, something the average person can tell....I'd be pissed of someone asked me if my car is a V8...after spending a chunk of $$ on it I don't want it confused with a V6. ;):D

[greenformula92]

I like it a lot. Be prepared for a ton of 5th gens to hit the used car market with people jumping generations

[V]

Oh absolutely...but have you talked to many V6 owners? Go take a peak on the message boards or Camaro5's Facebook page....they give me a migraine. :kneeslap:

Yes, hence why I do not go on Camaro5 anymore. I used a different name when I signed up there. Too many ignorant people who dont mind wasting a ton of money to buy crap which makes their cars look hideous.

[Frosty]

It's hilarious isn't it?

[LTb1ow]

Didn't like the 5th gen, don't like the 6th gen.

Not a fan of their owners either :lol:

[Frosty]

Didn't like the 5th gen, don't like the 6th gen.

Not a fan of their owners either :lol:

Haters gonna hate :)

[LTb1ow]

As long as you don't have lambo doors, excessive attachment to a "theme" for your car, or some gaudy color scheme, you get a pass.

:lol:

[NastyEllEssWon]

As long as you don't have lambo doors, excessive attachment to a "theme" for your car, or some gaudy color scheme, you get a pass.

:lol:



lol thats what happens when you advertise your car to the Dubstep Transformers Electrodweeb crowd :D

[BonzoHansen]

lol thats what happens when you advertise your car to the Dubstep Transformers Electrodweeb crowd :D
unfortunately from what I have seen it's people older than me that meet his descriptions!

[ThoR294]

Oh absolutely...but have you talked to many V6 owners? Go take a peak on the message boards or Camaro5's Facebook page....they give me a migraine. :kneeslap:

I'm just glad in '14 the SS/RS hoods have the heat extractors, something that separates the 8's from the 6's, something the average person can tell....I'd be pissed of someone asked me if my car is a V8...after spending a chunk of $$ on it I don't want it confused with a V6. ;):D

But bro my v6 makes 323 HP its more than a 4th gen v8 so I can smoke all of them!!!! (Stuck in high 14s)

Sighhhhh

[NastyEllEssWon]

unfortunately from what I have seen it's people older than me that meet his descriptions!



lol holy hell that would be hilarious to see a 50 year old dude pull up with some 26'' DUBS blinged out with chrome 70s vette sidepipes and lambo doors. Sad that we cant even blame this one on the kids these days :D :kneeslap:

[Frosty]

unfortunately from what I have seen it's people older than me that meet his descriptions!

Scary but true. It's...odd.

The themed ones are hilarious too. I try not to judge anymore, I used to be a ass years ago...now to each their own but it makes you wonder WTF they were thinking and who around them was encouraging it.

[Frosty]

But bro my v6 makes 323 HP its more than a 4th gen v8 so I can smoke all of them!!!! (Stuck in high 14s)

Sighhhhh

If these cars weren't so damn heavy....

[Paul Huryk]

I do think it is great that Chevy is putting out a 6th gen that seems (so far) well received by 5th gen and potential buyers. Ditto for Ford with their new Mustang.

But, the design is not to my taste (subjective) and is more 5th gen from the pics than something different. Will need to see in person to form an actual concrete opinion.

The weight of these cars is still too high, they should be on par with the 4th gens - even with the new government requirements. I'm going to say from the pics that the aerodynamics are improved from the 5th gen - but no where as good as the 3rd and 4th gens; talking CoD and frontal area here - not downforce.

ThoR294 (http://www.njfboa.org/forums/member.php?u=2635), LOL about the 323hp V6 running in the high 14's. My 280hp LaCrosse (same size engine, but FWD in a heavier car) runs in the high 14's. Minimal meaningful power upgradability on the V6 - unlike the LS1/2/3...

[BigAls87Z28]

Fourth gens are 3600-3700 lbs.
Fifth Gens are 3600-3900lbs
Sixth gens are 3400-3700lbs (200lbs+ lighter)

[LTb1ow]

They don't seem to reflect that at the track based on Hp claims.

[sweetbmxrider]

With proper gearing it would look better. I'm sure the v6 is peaky for the hp number.

[NastyEllEssWon]

growing up camaros were always very low, swoopy and sleek looking cars. I can see why some of the older guys like the lines because its more coupe looking like the first 2 generations of camaros than the 2+2 look of the 3rd and 4th gens....but it still looks like it shouldve been given a different name other than camaro. Chevelle/Malibu/Impala wouldve been more fitting imo.

[BigAls87Z28]

To each their own, I guess. Every generation, up until now, have been dramatically different than the generation it replaced. From first to fourth have become very low slung and poorly designed when it came to ergonomics.
The 4th gen is the worst when it comes to every aspect of driving. Swept back and heavily raked windshield, crazy low ride height, small side mirrors combined with poor sight lines and no interior space for a car that by 2002 was longer than a Ford Explorer of the same year.
Combine that with it's insane weight considering it was sitting on a revised third gen platform and the majority of the body panels were made of plastic, it could be the poster child for everything wrong with GM at that time.

In 2002, there was a 6 month waiting list for the PT Cruiser. At that same time, they were discounting Camaros and Trans Ams so that dealers could get them off the lot to make room for cars that sold.

[LTb1ow]

So now that the 6th gen is out, what will fanbois harp over? Will 5th gens be quickly relegated to the masses?

What is a internet fanboi to do???

Sidenote, I see more GTRs than V8 5th gens. :lol:

[WildBillyT]

So now that the 6th gen is out, what will fanbois harp over? Will 5th gens be quickly relegated to the masses?

What is a internet fanboi to do???

Sidenote, I see more GTRs than V8 5th gens. :lol:

LOL.

I see more Teslas than V8 5th gens.

[transampete]

Fourth gens are 3600-3700 lbs.
Fifth Gens are 3600-3900lbs
Sixth gens are 3400-3700lbs (200lbs+ lighter)

Where are you getting these numbers? I haven't seen any 5th gens under 3900lbs. and based on the overall size and shape I don't see how the 6th gen is any lighter. Does anyone have a link on how much the 6th gen actually weighs.

Based on the simple evolution of things, more safety equipment usually equals more weight.

[NJSPEEDER]

There are fanbois of ever generation of every cool car. When 4th gens came out the new owners acted the same way towards 3rd gen owners, every new generation of Corvette a new crowd starts singing to the mountain how all the old ones = mass suckage while the anti new car owners continue to decry the loss of chrome and how airbags make the steering wheel look stupid. None of it is anything new, just seems like the gap in production for several years has amplifide how obvious the fanboi/hateraid is this time.

I look forward to seeing the 6th gen in person, though I don't really have any interest in owning one.

[Paul Huryk]

They don't seem to reflect that at the track based on Hp claims.

You read my mind...

Seems like many of the late model GM cars do not perform as the HP and weight figures would make you think - ZL1 5th gen and C7 Z06 come to mind immediately. Then again, some cars come under rated - an example is the new McLaren 570/650 runs a lot better than its rated power would equate to.

I doubt very much if any 6th gen (most likely the V6) is going to tip the scales at 3400lbs without a driver, more likely 3550 to 3650 - probably 100lbs less than the 5th gens in similar trim. Waiting for some real numbers, not some estimate GM put out to get publicity.

[BigAls87Z28]

Where are you getting these numbers? I haven't seen any 5th gens under 3900lbs. and based on the overall size and shape I don't see how the 6th gen is any lighter. Does anyone have a link on how much the 6th gen actually weighs.

Based on the simple evolution of things, more safety equipment usually equals more weight.

You read my mind...

Seems like many of the late model GM cars do not perform as the HP and weight figures would make you think - ZL1 5th gen and C7 Z06 come to mind immediately. Then again, some cars come under rated - an example is the new McLaren 570/650 runs a lot better than its rated power would equate to.

I doubt very much if any 6th gen (most likely the V6) is going to tip the scales at 3400lbs without a driver, more likely 3550 to 3650 - probably 100lbs less than the 5th gens in similar trim. Waiting for some real numbers, not some estimate GM put out to get publicity.


GM has said at least 200lbs lighter thanks to all new platform and attention to detail.
I could see if you guys don't trust rumors or if this was a concept car, but lying to the EPA and other regulatory agencies tends to go over poorly. That's not for "publicity" because they would get slaughtered on that from every news source.
GM has focused heavily on weight, no pun intended, and being smaller and built on a platform that GM North America designed for lightness means they were serious.

As for performance numbers from cars like the ZL1, Z06, I haven't seen anything that's disappointing.

[Paul Huryk]

As for performance numbers from cars like the ZL1, Z06, I haven't seen anything that's disappointing.

C7 Z06 with 650hp trapping 127mph (more like 550hp)

5th gen ZL1 with 580hp trapping between 116 and 119mph - should be well above 120mph at the minimum...

[BigAls87Z28]

C7 Z06 with 650hp trapping 127mph (more like 550hp)

5th gen ZL1 with 580hp trapping between 116 and 119mph - should be well above 120mph at the minimum...

All the greatness that is going on with cars like the Z06 and ZL1 but it doesn't drag race well so it's "overrated" and doesn't live up to expectations?

Guess they should have just made a Hellcat type car and called it a day.

[Paul Huryk]

Not at all.

The thing is that with all the development and tech (unlike older cars) to be fast in every category and in all contests is lacking polish. As an example, my 550hp 3500lb Camaro runs the same mph as the Z06 despite having 3 or 4 handicaps that the Vette does not have, along with 100hp less.

The hellcat is a 1 trick pony using overwhelming power as a blunt force instrument, which is what it was meant to do anyway.



All the greatness that is going on with cars like the Z06 and ZL1 but it doesn't drag race well so it's "overrated" and doesn't live up to expectations?

Guess they should have just made a Hellcat type car and called it a day.

[sweetbmxrider]

All the greatness that is going on with cars like the Z06 and ZL1 but it doesn't drag race well so it's "overrated" and doesn't live up to expectations?

Guess they should have just made a Hellcat type car and called it a day.

Power can be found from weight and trap speed. I would think gearing isn't optimal for the 1/4 so they aren't in the powerband enough and through the traps so the numbers don't add up.

[Frosty]

Not everything is about 1/4 mile and trap speed...the ZO6 isn't a drag car.

[LTb1ow]

Not everything about 1/4 mile and trap speed...the ZO6 isn't a drag car.

All I was trying to say was the trap/weight seems off from advertised Hp numbers. And you can launch like crap, baby it, whatever, and your trap will usually remain the same.

I will concede to the gearing being not optimal for 1320 stuff. who knows.

[Frosty]

All I was trying to say was the trap/weight seems off from advertised Hp numbers. And you can launch like crap, baby it, whatever, and your trap will usually remain the same.

I will concede to the gearing being not optimal for 1320 stuff. who knows.

I get the points, valid points but it's not fair to judge an all around performance car just one drag times and trap speed....the ZO6 and cars like it do much more...this isn't a Hellcat we're talking about here lol

[sweetbmxrider]

Nah, that isn't what we are saying. The et doesn't matter. We are saying the mph isn't matching up to the advertised hp at the given weight. Its a simple math calculation drag racers like to get excited about. My thought is the gearing isn't there to put the car in the powerband and keep it there through the traps. We don't care if its going 13's or 10's. Its the mph that shows the cars power over the given distance at xxxx weight.

[WildBillyT]

Not at all.

The thing is that with all the development and tech (unlike older cars) to be fast in every category and in all contests is lacking polish. As an example, my 550hp 3500lb Camaro runs the same mph as the Z06 despite having 3 or 4 handicaps that the Vette does not have, along with 100hp less.

The hellcat is a 1 trick pony using overwhelming power as a blunt force instrument, which is what it was meant to do anyway.

I dunno. I was right there with you until I looked up the ZL1's stats:

The ZL1 curb weight is listed at ~4130 or so. Without driver.

Using this calculator

http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php

and a 200lb driver that gives a trap of 118 which doesn't appear to be too far off.

[Paul Huryk]

Gearing becomes much less of an issue when you have more transmission gears - the new 8 speed autos have 6 non-overdrive gears, 1st gear is usually 4.5:1 or better!

Neither the ZL1 nor Z28 have top speeds exceeding 180mph, meaning that they are geared pretty darn good from Chevy from the get-go.

Bill, you are correct that a 118mph trap speed is pretty close to the 120.5mph theoretical trap speed that the ZL1 should have. Problem is when you see a 114mph trap speed, it is not putting out 580hp.

If the trap speed is a few mph off from the theoretical, all is good - could be friction, traction, gearing... But when its off 5 or 10mph, then there is a disconnect that needs to be explained.

[Frosty]

Nah, that isn't what we are saying. The et doesn't matter. We are saying the mph isn't matching up to the advertised hp at the given weight. Its a simple math calculation drag racers like to get excited about. My thought is the gearing isn't there to put the car in the powerband and keep it there through the traps. We don't care if its going 13's or 10's. Its the mph that shows the cars power over the given distance at xxxx weight.

I said trap speed professor....read. ;) :D :D :D I just happened to throw in ET as well. ;)

[sweetbmxrider]

I said trap speed professor....read. ;) :D :D :D I just happened to throw in ET as well. ;)

Right, but you aren't understanding what I am saying. The 1/4 mile is basically a dyno without the computer. Do these all around performance cars not dyno well?

[WildBillyT]

Right, but you aren't understanding what I am saying. The 1/4 mile is basically a dyno without the computer. Do these all around performance cars not dyno well?

Also a really good question. What are the ZL1s dynoing at?

[IROCZman15]

kinda related..

so, i just went to search for something in the search feature of the website...and since I was not logged in at the moment, I was prompted to answer a "random question"

which was:

"how many generations of camaros are there?"

I entered "6" .. I was told by this website that I was wrong .... interesting!

[NastyEllEssWon]

kinda related..

so, i just went to search for something in the search feature of the website...and since I was not logged in at the moment, I was prompted to answer a "random question"

which was:

"how many generations of camaros are there?"

I entered "6" .. I was told by this website that I was wrong .... interesting!



technically the 6th generation isnt on sale yet. so you are wrong :D

[sweetbmxrider]

Probably should have gone with a constant, le dead firebird :D

[BonzoHansen]

**** i have to remember how to fix that lol\

edit: fixed!

[BigAls87Z28]

Also a really good question. What are the ZL1s dynoing at?

Quick Googling says 510-520hp to the wheels, so 15% drivetrain loss puts it right there.

[BonzoHansen]

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/2016-camaro-z-28-concept-force-rob-bank-190020202.html

[BigAls87Z28]

Yeah, I'm surprised it's taken this long to start hypothesizing about performance models.

LT4 powered ZL1s and what will become of the next gen Z28? The Z28 was such a one-off odd ball car that I don't think GM will ever make another car like that again.

[LTb1ow]

Whats pricing estimated to be for a mid range optioned V8 car?

[BigAls87Z28]

Whats pricing estimated to be for a mid range optioned V8 car?

Mid to high 30's would be my guess because that's what the market dictates.

[WayFast84]

Question. How big of a factor would gearing have to do with trap speed? I know it could effect et significantly with an extra shift in a stick.

[sweetbmxrider]

If the gearing puts you in the rpm range where you make the most power for the longest time, you'll go faster. Locking the converter could possibly bump the mph up depending on the setup.

[Paul Huryk]

The less transmission gears, the more it makes a difference. If you have a 3 speed auto (non-overdrive gears_), having 2.73 vs 4.11gears (assuming 4.11 is the right gearing) - could be 3 to 5mph in trap speed. If you have a T5, the difference would be a bit less as the gear spacing in the trans is better - even if the launch is so-so.

Keep in mind that the new generation of auto transmissions have up to 6 non-overdrive speeds, so gearing may not be as much a factor. Having a 4.5 1st gear (and close gear spreads) with a 2.73 rear is pretty much the same as a 2.75 1st gear (WC T5) with 4.11 rear gears.

Max acceleration is attained when each gear shift drops the rpm right into the meatiest part of the TQ curve, with the engine hitting peak hp right as it passes through the traps in the 1:1 gear. With the new transmissions, it may be a lower gear - but the same performance. So many variables!




Question. How big of a factor would gearing have to do with trap speed? I know it could effect et significantly with an extra shift in a stick.