Getting my new 406 SBC installed, running, and driving

[IROCZman15]

Pass 5:
Switched lanes. Still a fixed 125 shot coming on at 3,000 rpms. 6 second burnout. Footbrake launch from 1421 rpms. Kinda wish I was at least caring somewhat abotu reaction time, because this would have been a good side-by-side pass against that Malibu. But, like my TnT session 2 weeks ago, I was way more focused on leaving at the proper rpm instead of drilling the perfect .000 reaction time. Anyways, it went 1.47 to the 60 foot and It was spinning a bit but I staked in it and it came out of it. You can see the hood shake as the tires shatter a bit. Still, was happy with the launch, and then 1-2 shift at 6,757 2-3 shift 6492, and finish line 6606 rpms. That slight "flat spot" in the red data-trace is when the tires grabbed through the spin in 1st gear. That run pumped me up, and I was justtt starting to reel him in at the top end.


Timeslip: (best pass to date)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51574073178_2a858c0e7a_c.jpg


Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51573830621_2d518b170e_c.jpg


Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4eRbrejV0E





Pass 6:
8 second burnout, footbrake launch at 2019 1-2 shift at 6740, 2-3 shift at 6503, 3-4 shift 6012, and finish line 5438. You read that right, a 3-4 shift . I was not sure how it was going to go, and maybe it will be better, but I shifted 3-4 wayyy to early so it was a doggg in 4th gear which is a dog anyway in 700r4 transmissions.. even on nitrous. ODDLY, the mph was the same as my other passes where I was topping out at 3rd gear. ??!?!


Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51573831386_975dfde333_c.jpg

Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51574513234_8e3dd74eb9_c.jpg



Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFkQdSR0Qcg



Pass 7:
6.5 second burnout, and a 1666 rpms footbrake launch. Using another view/page of the datalog (not pictured here) I see what went wrong on this run. One of my safeties (nitrous rich cut-off limit) was activated just a second into 1st gear, so the ecu shut off the nitrous. So my launch was good, but then it was an all-motor pass the rest of the way. Shifter 1-2 at 6523, shifted 2-3 6223, and finish line at 6249. I do physically remember shifting 3-4 during this run too, but for some reason the transmission did not make the shift. Kinda weird, but will have to look into this. It did it the previous run, but maybe it was hot or just damn tired?


Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51573831241_55a54a5e70_c.jpg


Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51574514029_511d4fb203_c.jpg


Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJC4wqMl8bw





Notebook:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51574071618_4ed45a98ae_c.jpg


.

Some other videos that were filmed by a drag race friend named Tom who runs at Island . Jerry also took some videos, but I feel super badly that I did not get to film any of his runs.
-note.. I do not know which pass each launch video is from, so I am sorry, I only know the one against that Malibu was pass #5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBCsHbXhmYs
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzVdubQuT-Y
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1vZEO5Alg0
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9xwD4rgd4w






Drove the car home late at night. Washed it the next morning and swapped the wheels. Took it to the North Jersey Auto Show today (Sunday) in Paramus. it was raining from the moment I left, and most of the morning. They had a smaller turnout than the usual 400 cars that they get at this show, and I was in the 1980-present class. (they only allow vehicles up to 1996, so I guess the way tos ay it is I was in the 1980-1996 class). Got the class trophy, and drove home in the rain.. with the lakewood 90/10 drag struts, no front sway bar, and maniacs on rt 8p in north jersey.





Going to look into the trans 3-4 shifting situation. My best bet about how to rev out the engine during the last 200 feet of the track is a taller set of tires.. this will have to waif for spring 2022. If anyone has a set of 15" drag wheels with a 27" or 28" tire that I could test fit for a size mockup, please let me know. It would be much appreciated.

On that note, after watching some of Jerry's videos and Tom's videos, I now know that the car does squat. In fact, I was certain that I felt the rear bump-stops hit the axle tube on at least two launches. I mentioned this to the fellas, and I ended up cranking up each reach shock .5 It was probably not enough. I have done a bunch of research and have some 3rd gen buddies who have used the drag-bag air-bags before. It is a budget friendly trick I would like to try so I am probably going to order a set of these. They will also help when I haul the hundreds of pounds of tools to and from each event too. Especially with a taller tire...

Link: https://www.jegs.com/i/Air+Lift/022/60897/10002/-1?gclid=Cj0KCQjwnoqLBhD4ARIsAL5JedLjWPa3NNJIzoSqpO Nrmfj_UecXQZx74Nh_yETIbRHHA6Ic_V9a0-YaAulJEALw_wcB

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51574515919_23be11a22e_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51573832586_f5ae15ceff_c.jpg





Misc Pics:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51574075783_681c621e1e_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51573830351_154042013b_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51573020737_31708dd4c7_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51573311547_c07e205a7e_c.jpg

[Blackbirdws6]

Sounds like overall a successful weekend and congrats on the new best. A couple things:

1. If you want to test fit my rear wheel/tire setup (15's w/ 28s) let me know.
2. Any reason you wouldn't go to some form of a nitrous controller vs the button? I think it would take out one less variable. The nicer controllers offer a good deal of safety features.

[LTb1ow]

Sounds like overall a successful weekend and congrats on the new best. A couple things:

1. If you want to test fit my rear wheel/tire setup (15's w/ 28s) let me know.
2. Any reason you wouldn't go to some form of a nitrous controller vs the button? I think it would take out one less variable. The nicer controllers offer a good deal of safety features.

He has one, its called Holley EFI.
:lol:

[thehazguy]

Some other videos that were filmed by a drag race friend named Tom who runs at Island . Jerry also took some videos, but I feel super badly that I did not get to film any of his runs.
-note.. I do not know which pass each launch video is from, so I am sorry, I only know the one against that Malibu was pass #5.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBCsHbXhmYs
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzVdubQuT-Y
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1vZEO5Alg0
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9xwD4rgd4w

Dave, had fun Friday night. Nice to see you back up your 10.99 run with a few better runs. Remember practice makes perfect or at least more consistent

Video 1 - I think it was the 11.14 run

https://youtu.be/nXnUtaOg7v0

Video 2 - was the last run

https://youtu.be/3iOHxNYNH_A

Few pictures of Dave changing out the jets.

Also NJFBOA sign in front of the staging lanes

[IROCZman15]

Awesome, thanks Jerry. I think you are right about which video is with the # run. Cool Thanks! Always glad to have you at the track for smooth and simple guidance!

Brian: Yes , there is a chance I might take you up on that! I am just wondering about the backspacing, being that our rear axles are different width. I do have a buddy who has some taller tires/wheels on his thirdgen, and I'll gladly take a chance at test fitting a wheel from you, him, or anyone else. Also, yes, you are right about the nitrous controller, and indeed Matt is right about the Holley EFI doing exactly that. So, it does allow me to control many nitrous parameters, safeties, and whatnot. I had been used to the nitrous button before during the 5 years I had nitrous with the old TPI engine. The button is an additional item in the activation circuit, and I could easily eliminate it in just a few minutes by bypassing the wires to the button. I had initially thought that it would be "better" for me to control the nitrous via the button, but I am still getting used to it. I guess I wanted that old school rush of pushing the button and getting the result. If I can't get consistent with it, I am probably going to bypass the shifter button and just let the ecu control the nitrous. I will then set the triggering parameters accordingly.

I also gotta shift just a tad quicker from 1st gear to 2nd gear, I tagged the rev limiter just slightly in most of the passes. First gear does wick-up quick, especially on the spray, so its going to be interesting to see if I can do it.



Just ordered the Air Lift 60897 air bags, and also bought a bottle of that Geddex Burnout guard spray. I have tried waxing the rear fenders to keep burnout rubber away, but cleanup hasn't gone as well as I would like. Several people have recommended the Geddex spray, so I am willing to try it for $10.

[townsend]

Awesome, thanks Jerry. I think you are right about which video is with the # run. Cool Thanks! Always glad to have you at the track for smooth and simple guidance!

Brian: Yes , there is a chance I might take you up on that! I am just wondering about the backspacing, being that our rear axles are different width. I do have a buddy who has some taller tires/wheels on his thirdgen, and I'll gladly take a chance at test fitting a wheel from you, him, or anyone else. Also, yes, you are right about the nitrous controller, and indeed Matt is right about the Holley EFI doing exactly that. So, it does allow me to control many nitrous parameters, safeties, and whatnot. I had been used to the nitrous button before during the 5 years I had nitrous with the old TPI engine. The button is an additional item in the activation circuit, and I could easily eliminate it in just a few minutes by bypassing the wires to the button. I had initially thought that it would be "better" for me to control the nitrous via the button, but I am still getting used to it. I guess I wanted that old school rush of pushing the button and getting the result. If I can't get consistent with it, I am probably going to bypass the shifter button and just let the ecu control the nitrous. I will then set the triggering parameters accordingly.

I also gotta shift just a tad quicker from 1st gear to 2nd gear, I tagged the rev limiter just slightly in most of the passes. First gear does wick-up quick, especially on the spray, so its going to be interesting to see if I can do it.



Just ordered the Air Lift 60897 air bags, and also bought a bottle of that Geddex Burnout guard spray. I have tried waxing the rear fenders to keep burnout rubber away, but cleanup hasn't gone as well as I would like. Several people have recommended the Geddex spray, so I am willing to try it for $10.

what width is your rear axle? i have racestar 15x10's with 28 et street pros and i am not far from you, but they are 4th gen specs, which sit in waay too much on a third gen (i test fit them on a 84 z28). i have some 15x10 racestars with no tires that are 6" backspace, but they are old style that use wobble bolts/offset washers for 5x4.5/5x4.75 pattern. i would let those go cheeeaaap

as i said on youtube, nice passes. i gotta dig thru your build threads to make this 89 formula i just picked up quicker lol

[IROCZman15]

cool man, thanks ! I might take ya up on that offer too. I had moser build the 12 bolt rear axle to stock GM width for 3rd gen fbody. I might be able to measure it, but a quick search on google of the big fbody websites say that the 4th gen rear is approx 3" wider. some sites say 4" some say 3.5" some say 3". My current street/autocross wheels are a 18X10 with a 5. 7/8" backspace, so there might be a chance those 15X10 wheels would work with that 6" backspace. Cool. It is promising to know that I might have some wheels to test with. This would probably be in the late winter or early spring of 2022. Thanks man!

[IROCZman15]

got em installed. Probably wont get to the track for another week or two though. So I'll just do some mild street hits.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51590799144_a8960b3c10_c.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51590799129_18f0076629_c.jpg



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51590137601_199de13211_c.jpg

[thehazguy]

Looks good Dave. Good luck

[IROCZman15]

Had planned on going to Island today for TnT. For the past few weeks, November 7th was listed as an Open Test n Tune event, but just this past week it was changed to a Diesel Truck event and no cars were allowed. Kinda a bummer, but I did call and check with them that next weekend they will be open for Test and Tune as well as the "grocery getter 15.00 and slower" event. So as long as the weather holds for next weekend, November 14, I plan on going. It might be the last 1/4 mile event of the year for me, unless I decide to try to make it down to Atco.

Anyways, I decided to take the camaro out for a cruise up to my buddies house in newton today. Was stunned when out of nowhere a large male deer ran into the road, jumped onto the roof of the car in front of me, jumped off the roof, and took off ! Jeez, I am super glad that it didn't happen 5 seconds later, or I would have been the victim!

dash-cam video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr5u9jRDfQM



Car show season is over, nothing else local. I'll still cruise around till mid December on favorable days, before I take the car off the road for the year. Despite having the car at the chassis shop for the roll-bar install for the whole month of June, the camaro racked up More miles than my primary daily driver (2005 dodge ram) this year, and I am kinda stoked about that! It helps that I only work 0.7 miles away form home and typically drive my old 1995 jeep wrangler anyways. I've definitely enjoyed all the seat time and spent a small fortune on 93 octane shell gasoline.


So, for next weekend, I am probably going to get a bit more aggressive with the nitrous shot. My top-end MPH might still stay the same since I am topping out in 3rd gear, but I am hoping I can get a quicker 60foot, 8th and 1/4 mile e.t. by launching with a 100shot and then ramping it to a 150 shot. I'm hoping the track prep/surface will hold the launch too, and that I can improve the 1.47 sixty foot a little bit. A wheelie would be awesome for a photograph, but this car just doesn't want to lift the nose off the ground still. I still have yet to test out these new air drag-bags at the track. I'd also like to see 100 mph at the 8th mile, and my current best is 99.77 mph. can't think of much else yet; just hope the weather is good for next Sunday

[sweetbmxrider]

That was crazy haha

[TaKid455]

That was awesome! Some sports team needs that deer.

[IROCZman15]

It sure was a sight to see and I was super glad it wasn't me or my car involved!

Going to start prepping the car after work this week for the TnT event this Sunday at Island. Swap wheels, remove front passenger seat, bolt check, pack tools, etc. I am also debating on removing the exhaust pipes/muffler that are after the y-pipe. I did this last year once, but I personally wasn't as dialed in with shift points so I really don't know if it helped or not. I also was not spraying nitrous last year either, but I certainly will be on Sunday.


I would keep the 1.75" Dyno Dons shorty/mid length headers on, along with the DynoDons 2.5-to-3" y-pipe. At the end of the Y-pipe I would bolt on a short 90degree turn down so the exhaust isn't blasting into the underside of the car. Same as last year.

-Therefore I would be removing the remainder of the 3" main exhaust pipe, the electric cut out, the 3" over the axle pipe, the muffler, and the two 2.5" tailpipes. When i did this last year it was certainly worth some weight savings, but I want to see if I run a better mph by having it off or not. This will help me make scientific decisions about my upcoming winter exhaust system project.
Thoughts?

I don't mind the 20 minutes of work it takes to remove the exhaust, it comes apart pretty easily...but getting it back on is a bit of a pain. Come January, a different exhaust system altogether will be getting built, so this might be the last on-off for this 3" system and maybe even the dyno dons headers/y-pipe too.

[IROCZman15]

Went to Island Dragway this past Sunday, November 14, 2021 for my final drag race TnT of this year. It was also the Daily-Driver Grocery-Getter e3vent, an Impala club event, regular Test-n-Tune, and a racing for Santa's type Toys-for-Tots fundraiser. They opened an hour earlier than usual (9am gates 10 am racing) but due to water seeping up into the track on the top-end, it took them till almost 11:30 to get the first pair of cars off. There was an insane amount of cars there. Good for business, but really a lot of down time. Lots of oil downs and whatnot too, so the track and starting line was cold temperature which made for some tricky launch conditions. Someone hit the timing system very early on, and that caused a delay too. There was a weird issue with the tree during my 1st run, as it put on the bottom bulbs before ever lighting the top bulbs (no I was not deep staged). Also, later on, someone started a fire in one of the trash barrels so they had to have the fire department come and handle that situation. It was just a very long drawn out day, and they only allowed everyone to get 3 passes, unless you were in one of the bracket racing groups. My buddy John was there with his low 11 second Trans Am, and Jerry was there with his 2nd gen too! Jerry was consistent as always and I think it was the first time I got to see his bird on the track. My buddy John was lined up next to me in the left lane for our 2nd pass, and he dialed up his clutch adjustment too far and it caused him to stall on the line. This was a super big blessing in disguise because when he opened the hood to adjust the clutch valve, he noticed some milkshake colored oil/fluid in the clear hoses that connect his valve cover to his vacuum pump. He had known a head gasket was just starting to leak coolant outside the engine, but it must have just started leaking into the engine during his first pass. If he had not stalled on the line and had made the pass next to me with a blown head gasket, who knows how bad the situation could have been.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51684474597_a821cdc1ba_c.jpg

Look at how far back the line stretched!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51685947939_d8b203787c_c.jpg


Anyways. the drag bags seemed to work great. I did not hit the bump stops and from what it felt like in the driver's seat, the car did not squat all that much. I ran 8psi in the driver's side bag, and 10.4 psi in the passenger side bag all day. Front tires were 50 psi and the rear tires I kept at 18.5 psi all day. Had the rear shocks set at 3.5/5 driver's side and 4/5 on the passenger side. I put in the 150 jets and had a full nitrous bottle which I used the bottle heater to keep it at a steady 1,000 psi. I programmed the nitrous to only spray between 2400-6500 rpms. Weather was cold, but not all that windy. It was a negative200-negative300 D.A. all day, which was great, but the track temp was just dead cold because of the lack of cars being able to continually make passes amongst the very frequent down-time. Look at the clock/time differences on my timeslips, its 3 hours between pass 1and2, and 1.5 hours between pass 2and3.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51685519688_cea978b280_c.jpg

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https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51685934944_5802b63efb_c.jpg




Pass 1:
Did a 5.5 second burnout. Wanted to try launching from a slightly high idle, so I launched at 1036 rpms. The nitrous was programmed to come on at 2400 rpms, and I had it set up for a slow progressive ramp.. it was a 2 second long ramp from 75hp-150hp. The car slipped the tire a touch on the n/a footbrake launch and then held the tire during the nitrous ramp. Nitrous clicked off at the high-rpm limit of both shifts (as well as the top of 3rd gear still 150+ feet from the finish line). I shifted 1-2 at 6546 and 2-3 shift at 6541 rpms, and crossed the line at 6524 rpms. The car is very unhappy during the last few hundred feet, and I know I am not accelerating, I am either staying steady speed or possibly decelerating.

Video:
- I have no in car video from this pass as my memory car footage loop records, and the overall time at the track was sooo incredibly long, that the loop recording wrote-over my first pass.. which just so happened to be my quickest pass to date!
Fortunately, Joey D was in the stands spectating and he took a video, so here is the link to it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iFo44TEAGE

Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51685950009_1a09446fb3_z.jpg

Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51685957059_cf529f37be_c.jpg



Pass 2:
I was glad that the progressive 150 shot worked, and had a choice to make. Do I shorten up the progressive's ramp, or do I go out there and see if it will take a fixed 150 shot instead. Hearing the track's announcement that all cars would only get 3 runs total, I thought, well, lets put the fixed 150 shot in it and see if it takes it. My buddy John was next to me and I had hoped he was going to get his 10.99 n/a timeslip (He has been 11.02, and that is a stick shift car). I did a 5.5 second burnout, but for some reason it felt like only 1 tire was getting worked, and it has done this before, but only rarely. Foot brake launched from 1089 rpms and it barely rolled out at all before hitting 2400 rpms and getting on the nitrous, which caused it to completely knock the tires loose. So I pedaled it, got back in it and on the nitrous and tagged the rev limiter a bit before making the 1-2 shift at 6586 rpms. Second gear held fine but I was on the limiter again a bit before shifting 2-3 at 6681 rpms. I crossed the stripe while still spraying at 6614 rpms, which is weird because it should have clicked off at 6500 rpms? Was bummed out for John who I was expecting to make a side-by-side pass with me and both of us get a 10 second timeslip together.


Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAfBopNeSbI



Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51685949994_74f3f7027b_z.jpg


Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51685271016_ebebb4c2b2_c.jpg



Pass 3:
Put a progressive nitrous tune in it, but shortened the ramp to be 1.2 seconds. So it sprays from 75shot-to-150 shot in 1.2 seconds. 7 second burnout, both tires. Tried to launch from a higher rpm footbrake like I am used to doing, and I footbrake launched at 1701 rpms. I did feel the tire slip just a little bit at the hit, BUT it turns out I actually did not got WOT right away either, so the even though I passed my 2400 rpm On-activation for the nitrous, it did not click on until I went past 80% TPS on-activation. This can be seen in the datalog traces below, but at the time, I did not even realize it later until I looked at the datalog. The 1.2 second progressive ramp was fine. And after a touch of the rev limiter I shifted 1-2 at 6652 rpms, shifted 2-3 at 6588 rpms.... and as usual, as I approached the finish line it clicked the nitrous off, kept my timing retard in it, and dropped rpms, which eventually had me cross the line at 6458 rpms. You can see that it did this for about 1.3 seconds on the datalog (top right corner) and hear it in the video.





Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Giul-sSgZhU



Timeslip:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51685538678_e2ba27e5b2_z.jpg


Datalog:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51685544938_b83ca81e62_c.jpg



So
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51685957054_05d66c3acf_c.jpg




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[sweetbmxrider]

Nice pass! Car looks well behaved off the tree. Little more tuning….almost perfect.

[thehazguy]

Dave here's the video I took from the mound on the pit side. Had a good time hanging with you and John.

https://youtu.be/54prs1i85is

Could of been a little warmer but it's November. Insane day looked to be 150+ cars. I guess like most of us we wanted to get our last day in for the year. Didn't want to gamble on the later November weekends and miss an opportunity.

Be safe we'll talk soon.

[IROCZman15]

Thanks Adam and Jerry. Thanks for the video! I definitely had to pedal it off the launch, and lost e.t. on that pass.....but.... that was by far my fastest 1/4 mile trap speed. I know that I was still on the throttle and on the nitrous when I crossed the line (see datalog and in car video) so that tells me that on my other passes where I have those rpm "issues" I am actually slowing down in mph before the line. I am sure of it.
Excited to see what a taller tire will do for the top end numbers next year. I did bolt up one of Johns 27" tall tires on Monday, but I will save that post for another time after I do more wheel/tire research.

[Blackbirdws6]

Good finish to the racing year and you made a great deal of progress. I'm sure you have a list of items to tackle next year.

[IROCZman15]

I'll type up a longer post about winter upgrades and projects in the upcoming weeks, but

My buddy John who was in the left lane next to me for my second pass at Island two weeks ago had his dash cam rolling. Since his clutch had issues and he stalled on the line, his in car video shows the beginning of my pass. It is not of great quality, but when I watched it in super slow motion, I was curious about what I saw...

...This pass was where I went to the non-progressive 150 nitrous shot coming in at 2400 rpms, so almost out of the hole. It zipped the tires loose and I got off the throttle and nitrous for an instant, and then got back on the throttle . You can see this in the previously posted (above) datalog for pass #2 and hear/see the car get loose in the pass 2 youtube video of my in-car footage. But what it looks like from his footage, is that when I got back on the throttle, it might have just slightly yanked the front driver's side wheel up an inch in the air?!?!?!? Part of me thinks its an optical illusion, but I do remember that pass and how it boogied when I got back on the throttle after peddling it. So, I wonder if this can calm my brain about thinking this car will never lift a tire. Maybe it will, maybe this time it did get a wheel up, and I didn't realize it until freeze-framing his video. Interesting.


John's video :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlBzdgNju9E



My video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAfBopNeSbI



Freeze frames of his video:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51717239295_daa535e041_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51715571197_92898e400b_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51716372506_3970dcc03e_c.jpg

[PolarBear]

Noice

[sweetbmxrider]

Definitely daylight!

[IROCZman15]

Yesterday was the last day of driving the car for 2021; went down to Round Valley and parts of Hunterdon county. Put 82 miles on it and enjoyed a few nitrous hits on the interstate when traffic was low. Removed the hood after the drive, because I am determined to find and repair the oil leak at the back of the engine. It has bothered me for some time, but now that the driving season is over, I am going to tackle it before getting into the exhaust project. I have always been mindful of the "borderline" high oil pressure (which I have described in this thread, and another separate thread) and I am sure that the oil leak was caused/magnified by the higher oil pressure. Engine builder and I think that the check-valve in the melling oil pump is probably stuck and just over-pressurizing the system. Anyways, this is all covered by the 24 month warranty on the engine, in which I am currently in month 23! So he's going to get me a replacement pump, gasket, and whatnot.


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Today, I had a good couple hours of camaro work in between my current upstairs bathroom renovation project, so I removed the full exhaust including the headers, removed the driveshaft, drained the trans fluid (looked/smelled just great after 2 years of heavy use), removed the transmission, removed the torque converter, drained the cooling system, removed the radiator and fans, drained engine oil, drained power steering fluid, and some other stuff. Everything went smoothly today aside from the Lokar TV cable housing not wanting to come out from the transmission. After fighting with it for 25 minutes, I had to sacrifice it, and later on noticed a metal burr on the housing that was lodging it in place. So I'll need a new lokar cable. Also, the biggest pain in the butt was the insane moisture in the air. Everything in my garage was coated in water droplets, the vinyl floor, my tools, the tv, tool boxes, every surface of the car, every nut and bolt and socket. Plus the oil mess under the car, it was one heck of a messy day and everything was slippery. Look at the humidity droplets on the valve covers and header tubes below!...and the wet floor, simply from humidity.


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Tomorrow I will be taking off the sniper efi throttle body and the nitrous stuff, along with the fuel lines and electrical wiring. I know I probably could do the oil pump, gasket, and rear main seal with the engine lifted up in the engine bay, but I have better chances of getting everything buttoned up properly if I put the engine on a stand. I will be using this 1-Ton chain fall hoist which will be mounted to a chain (and that 10,000 pound strap) to my 2"x"10 garage rafters. I also will be putting up some screw-jack supports from the floor to the rafters to keep the beam deflection to a minimum. Once the engine is up high enough, I'll roll the car out, lower the engine, put it on an engine stand, and roll the car back into the garage. This makes more sense for me to do as opposed to the cherry picker, because with the cherry picker I would opt to remove the front nose again, and I always worry about screwing up the paint.


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[thehazguy]

Dave, sounds like a plan. Good Luck

[IROCZman15]

Got back out in the garage around 1 PM today and by 3 pm had the engine out of the car. Started by taking off the sniper efi and nitrous stuff, as well as the distributor, starter, and undoing a bunch of the wiring. Hooked up the chain's hook to the lift plate and the engine came out very easy; almost too easy. The chain hoist system worked just fine. Once it was up in the air, my dad and I just simply rolled the car back a few feet and lowered the engine down. Then I took off the flexplate and bolted the engine to the engine stand. Cleaned up some fluids, rolled the engine off to the side, and rolled the car back into place. Didn't get any further than that, aside from some tool cleanup, and then I went inside and continued the bathroom project.

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I was really hoping to see the oil leak coming from one of the little pipe plugs at the back of the engine, but they all look sealed up nice and tight. Tomorrow or Tuesday after work, I will get things cleaned up and maybe flip the engine over to remove the oil pan and see what is going on with the pump. Wherever the leak is, the flexplate and converter sprayed the oil on everything, so I have a bcnh of cleanup to do. While the engine is out I want to redo a bunch of the under-hood wiring (again) and move some of it inside to my new fuse block arrangement under the dashboard.

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drivers side rear block


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drivers side lower rear block and pan



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pass side rear block


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pass side lower rear block and pan

[IROCZman15]

* I only had an hour after work today to work in the garage, but I flipped the engine upside down, removed the oil pan, noticed the flappy oil pan gasket at the same spot you guys are seeing it (see better photos below) and then examined the oil pump before taking it off. It is the Melling M55Hv (high volume) oil pump. I've never inspected one before, so I am not really sure what to look for regarding a "stuck" check spring or check ball. No matter what, this pump is getting replaced.* Does anything look awry? Should there be some kind of cap/cover on that port where you can see the spring coiled inside the hole (photo below) ??* I took off the rear main-cap also and I looked at the blue rear main seal and it did seem intact, but I poked at it a little bit and probably disrupted it's sealing surface, so I will simply get a new 2-piece rear main seal. This is as far as I plan on taking the engine apart this calendar year It is healthy and the only issues were: high oil pressure and oil leak.* I'm in no need of upgrading hardcore parts, so this is more engine maintenance project.* I wiped a few things down real quick, but I have got some serious cleaning to do one of these upcoming days.*


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As for additional winter upgrades my list includes:
-reinstall engine, transmission, converter, driveshaft, radiator, etc. (December)
- redo a bunch of engine bay wiring (December
- find a proper set of long tube headers (January)
- build a y-pipe and install it to a new magnaflow 4" exhaust setup (January-February)
- research and buy a set of 28" tall drag tires on a 15" wheel (April)
- rust repair under windshield channel and new windshield (April-May)



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[LTb1ow]

That spring held in by the pin is the one you want to look at.

[IROCZman15]

yup, thanks Matt. Makes sense!

I did a little research today and brought the pump to work where I disassembled it..took that roll-pin out and the spring out. I couldn't verify that the spring was stuck or not, but I did learn how it all worked when I called Melling just after I took it apart. The internal pressure relief valve slides open to relieve pressure (controlled by the spring). If the valve or spring is stuck, it would cause high pressure as it is unable to bypass the excess fluid. According to melling, the spring in this current pump is a 58 psi spring. Which makes sense, because i was getting 60 psi (on my stock camaro dashboard's oil pressure gauge) for many months. And then all of a sudden after racing at island one day LAST October, it went to 80ish psi and lived around there ever since. Melling also said,t hat 80 isn't dangerous back then when I called them, and they said the same exact thing to me today. During our chat today, they did agree that I should repair or replace the pump. Melling then told me that they would recomend a better version of the pump, one with better gears, a chromoly shaft, a more robust "neck", and a (blue) spring installed that is pre-set to 70 psi. It also comes with another 58 psi spring, but he said the 70 psi would be best for me due to how I use the car and the rpms I rev to.
-The pump they recommended to me is the Melling Select # 10550ST. ( link contains a video)
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mel-10550st?cm_mmc=ppc-google-_-search-_-brands-_-keyword&gclid=Cj0KCQiAnuGNBhCPARIsACbnLzr5Vtu17NWQTk5Jyd5r 2Z8gBMatYFs_-uBbLlBAOhsOfCIXx0lXrHgaAh9SEALw_wcB

Looks like I would have to buy a pickup tube though? And then weld it on to the pump? Am I correct ?

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I then called the Engine builder (Pat at Nyes Racing Engines) and he agreed that this pump would be great, along with the blue 70psi spring. We also chatted about rear main seals and the oil pan gasket failure as well as what gaskets to use for the rebuild.
FelPro Rear main seal:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-2900?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAnuGNBhCPARIsACbnLzqk2exSWV_KYWKQ6Dwr O9eTT7tigacu7acP0cgRpcXnYLFft29WFt8aAlUuEALw_wcB

OR,
I could buy the bottom end block full gasket set:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-cs77332

but this comes with the 4 piece cork gasket set for the oil pan. I'm thinking of using the 1 piece synthetic oil pan gasket.

[TaKid455]

Exhaust

ARH in NY or Ultimate Headers. Since you want to save weight, look at TiCon. :) Talked to all three at PRI. YMind you these are not low cost leaders , but for those who want the goods.

Ticon will most likely be a system you fab or build your headers out of 'legos' & send that model to them to fab.

[IROCZman15]

awesome, thanks Larry. I will look them up in the coming weeks. Sadly, the exhaust project will have to be on a limited budget, but it does need to be done as my current exhaust is no longer suitable. That does seem cool of how you would mock-up your headers and then they would build them.

[IROCZman15]

The parts arrived Friday and I got them installed. The new melling "shark tooth" style oil pump has many benefits I listed above, and it also is said to do away with any "pulsing" that the straight-cut gears cause and oil pressure results in a fluttering gauge. So since I will be adding a secondary oil pressure gauge (on the A-pillar), I should have a rock solid and accurate oil pressure reading from both gauges. I kept the 70 psi spring in the pump, but the pump kit came with the 58 psi spring if I ever want to change it out. The oil screen/pickup did not come with the pump, so I measured and did my research to get the right depth one. I welded the pickup tube to the pump also. I went with the FelPro 1piece gasket with the thick groove at the timing cover. It came with new bolts also. I also installed a new Felpro 2900 rear main seal, making sure to offset it 3/8" from the block and dabbed a touch of permatex "right stuff" 90 minute gasket maker on the ends of the RMS that meet eachother. I also used this same permatex at the front and back corners of the block before installing the felpro oil pan gasket. Did some degreasing of the engine while it was on the engine stand, and installed a new oil filter as well. Took a few hours and opened up all the engine bay wire loom to reconfigure the wiring a bit better. Cut out some unnecessary stuff, combined grounds, used label maker on important wires, and relocated some wiring to go inside the cabin to a separate fuse block I mounted under the passenger dashboard area. Tucked everything away in split loom and temporarily routed it in place.


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With everything on the engine buttoned up, I rolled it over to the chain hoist and got the hook on the lift plate. My dad and a hot rodding neighbor came by and we dropped the engine in, landing it in place like a perfect dream on the first shot. Two motor mount bolts slid in without any persuasion. Super simple and effortless. Got the chain hoist and pipe-jacks out of the way just in time to go meet-up with a fella who bought my old Nitto 555 tires from me (see ad in classifieds). He has some turbocharged volvo drift car and was excited to have a set of tires to fry, so its cool that my old tires will be laid to rest in a long smokey drift burnout instead of just discarded to the trash. Anyways, with only a little time left in the afternoon today, I popped in the hyperspark distributor, bolted on the nitrous plate and its wiring/plumbing, and also installed the sniper throttle body and half of it's wiring. I have a few hours tomorrow afternoon to try to get the transmission, converter, driveshaft, headers, radiator, wiring, plumbing, fluids, etc taken care of.


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Sidenote, next month I am removing the main crank pulley and the water pump pulley and getting them professionally finished. Had zero luck finding a local NJ chrome shop (called 11 potential places and struck out) and I am fearful of shipping them because in recent months USPS and UPS has completely lost 4 of my outgoing packages. But there are a few local places that do similar shiny-silvery coatings, so I am going to try that. Also opting for the less flashy non-chrome finish on these pulleys because I don't want TOO much attention to be drawn to a stamped steel pulley, but they do look very bad with my poorly done "chrome" aerosol paint job that is 2 years old and flaking off. Was quoted about $25-$30 per pulley so thats not a bad deal.

[Blackbirdws6]

Damn you work fast! Looks good from here as always.

[IROCZman15]

It was a busy week for everything except the car, but I finally had a few hours on Friday and Today to get stuff accomplished. Got the converter, transmission, driveshaft, (old) headers, radiator, fans, electronics, nitrous, distributor, sniper efi, fuel lines, starter, new Lokar tv cable, trans fluid lines, etc etc installed. Poured in some fluids too. Cranked the engine over without fuel just to make sure everything sounded normal. Since it did, I put fuel to it and the damn thing fired right up. Oil pressure was there right away and not "off the charts" like I was used to seeing. My dash gauge is probably not super accurate, and the 20w-50 oil was cold/thick so the dashboard gauge displayed higher than the 70 psi that the 70 psi spring in the pump should produce.


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(Two gallons of the evans was the stuff I removed/saved from the cooling system a few weeks ago, so I only needed to buy one new gallon...and turns out, I only needed about 1pint from it anyways!)


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Later on, hours AFTER I put in the 20w-50 VR1 and ran the car for a bit my buddy suggested I put in some lighter weight oil for the cold winter ahead. So I drained the fresh VR1 and put in some Valvoline 10w30 because I do plan on running the car occasionally and doing some short test drives during the cold winter anyways. I saved the brand new VR1 and it will go back in the engine around March. Maybe I am overthinking it, but the brand new oil pump and gaskets/seals might get worked-in better without having to pump 70 psi of thick 20w-50 oil during cold weather cold-starts.


I cut open the old oil filter (May 2021) and the transmission filter (February 2021) like I usually do, and everything looked very good. Just a little bit of metallic sludge on the magnet of the transmission filter, but the filter element was clean. Same for the engine oil filter, very clean.

Oil:
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Trans:

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I have a few more button-up and clean-up things to do tomorrow since I am off from work, but afterwards I plan to take the car on a road test. If everything is in order, I can start moving on to the research/purchase of some of the other winter projects.
- Long tube headers with a full exhaust
- Set of gauges in the A-pillar (oil pressure, fuel pressure and secondary Oxygen sensor)
- fuel tank access door in the trunk
- getting water pump pulley and crank balancer pulley refinished
- replacing oem steel transmission fluid lines with CopperNickle 5/16" lines

[IROCZman15]

Got stuff on the top of the engine taken care of and fired up the engine again. Took it around the neighborhood to get some heat in the engine so that I could check/adjust the timing. When I pulled back in the driveway, I was stunned to see oil dripping at the back of the engine. However, it was not from the rear main seal or oil pan gasket. It was also not from the head gasket area or valve covers. At first I thought it was the little pipe-plug at the back of the block by the distributor, but sadly it looks like the rear china wall has a leak at the intake manifold gasket. This is a new leak and for sure 100% was not there when I was using the car during the spring or summer. My buddy told me that sometimes (not always) the intake manifold gasket may develop a break in the sealing surfaces when using the carburetor style engine lift plate that I used, because the weight is hanging on the manifold bolts with the gasket in between. . This makes total sense, and I wish I had thought of this weeks ago. BUMMER! Looks like I will be ordering a replacement intake manifold gasket, and pulling apart the top end again.

I just do not want any leaks, and even though it is a minor oil leak, it is not going to get better on its own, so I am going to take care of it next. After setting the timing and topping off fluids, I took the car for a longer drive, and it was ripping, just blowing off the cold tires on the cold road! Good fun. Oh, and oil pressure is now right about 70psi according to the dashboard gauge, so I am super happy. Also, no idea what is with my trans temp gauge, its pegged at max, so possibly has a short or stuck needle, I'll need to get that fixed next time I am under the dashboard.

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[thehazguy]

Nice update Dave. Sucks about the oil leak. Have a safe Happy New Year.

[IROCZman15]

yea, slight bummer about the intake leak, but nothing too terrible int he grand scheme of things. Pulled everything apart one day last week and ordered a set of Edelbrock gaskets (same that were on it). Once they were delivered a few days later, I used some Permatex 90 minute rtv and got everything installed. Let it cure and fired up the car. No leaks, all set. Good stuff


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I have been doing a whole lot of research on the exhaust components, mostly on thirdgen.org where I have a longgg thread discussing this topic. link: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exhaust/779255-headers-exhaust-options-700-a.html There were a few options, but my budget is limited for this exhaust project so some of the high dollar custom built headers were not a realistic option. I knew I needed a 1.75" diameter primary tube and I wanted a long tube setup that maintained good ground clearance. The hooker super comps and dougs hang a little low,and my car is already low. A buddy of mine was going to give me his hooker super comps, but many of hte primaries were bashed in and would need a ton of work, plus some type of ceramic heat coating. They were my optionB. Option A, was a set of those chineese ebay headers that 3rd gen and even 4th gen guys have had pretty good success with. At $212 with free shipping I am willing to give them a try.
link:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/303610713722?mkevt=1&mkpid=0&emsid=e11051.m43.l1123&mkcid=7&ch=osgood&euid=a07aa7663fdd46c19990693061e48023&bu=43197306358&osub=-1%7E1&crd=20211230211549&segname=11051&sojTags=ch%3Dch%2Cbu%3Dbu%2Cosub%3Dosub%2Ccrd%3Dcr d%2Csegname%3Dsegname%2Cchnl%3Dmkcid&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5336118874&toolid=10001&customid=kxy1ulr151000b2p00004
These tuck up well and I have seen plenty of photos that show great clearance. Unfortunately they have a collector that goes from 3" and necks-down to 2.5". So my plan is to simply cut off the necked-down part and weld on my own flange or v-band at that point.
very long thread that has been going on for many years regarding these ebay longtubes:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/exhaust/607715-ebay-longtubes-10.html



I am also pretty much settled on buying a 4" mufflex "cat back" setup. I have no desire to fight a set of dual 2.5" exhaust pipes to the back of the car. Not interested. The mufflex 4" will be tight in some key areas, but I think i ca make it work with much less headache than a dual pipe setup. I will have to decide on which muffler I want to go with, but I think i am going to skip a spintech, and probably go with the magnaflor or flowmaster. I do not care about having dual tailpipes, so it will be a single 4" in and 4" out muffler with a turndown under the bumper.
link: https://mufflex-performance.com/1982-1992-40-single-cat-system/24-82-92-single-cat-40-flowmaster.html
I called Denny at mufflex and he said there is no wiggle room on the price, even if I drove down to pick it up. He did say that prices are going up quite a bit for 2022, but he could lock me in at the previous listed price.



What all this means, is that I will be building my own collectors and y-pipe which will either incorporate a single 4" electric exhaust cut out or two 3" cut outs. I already have one 3" cutout, so if space allows I would do two 3" cutouts right after the collectors and before the merge. if not, I'll sell the 3" cutout that I have and buy a 4" instead. I've seen some fbody guys get creative and cut out pockets of the factory inner subframe rails. I might also do this too, and the car is solid-enough to do this because of subframe connectors and 6 point roll bar. I might have to build my own trans crossmember, and also modify the S&W relocated torque arm mount (which doubles as a driveshaft loop). So I have some work cut out for me this month, but I am ok with that.

I will end up selling the dynodons headers and y-pipe after my exhaust project is complete, so if anyone is interested, shoot me a PM. They are 1.75" primaries but a short/mid length header. The collectors are 2.5" and a ball-cup style mating surface. The y-pipe is in great shape and was cut/welded to gain extra ground clearance. I have had these on the car since about 2007, and they have served me very well. Probably will be for sale mid February.

[Blackbirdws6]

The sewer pipe will certainly flow as needed and I'm curious if your clearance over the axle will be better vs the 4th gens. Its silly tight on mine.

Nice work on the intake fix. You certainly don't waste any time.

[IROCZman15]

Drove the car around the neighborhood one last time on Thursday night with the old exhaust system. Then I removed the water pump pulley and main crank pulley as well as the rear diff cover. I dropped off the two pulleys and the 12-bolt aluminum diff cover at a local powdercoating place in Rockaway yesterday. They will get sandbalsted and powdercoated in a "like chrome" coating for $120.


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So,


I broke the exhaust system down into thirds, so I knew how I was going to handle each segment.
1st third: Headers only (ebay stainless steel kit)
2nd third: header collectors, cutouts, and 3"-4" merge pipe (to be determined)
3rd third: main pipe, over axle pipe, muffler, and tailpipe (mufflex 4" system with magnaflow muffler)


My headers arrived in the mail on Thursday. the box was beat up, but fortunately all of the pipes inside the box were in good shape. I bought this $212 ebay kit knowing full well that I would not be using the 2.5" collector pipes or the 2.5"into3" merge Ypipe. After discussion with the guys at Thirdgen.Org, I determined it would be perfectly ok to cut-off the necked-down 2.5" diameter section of the header collector and leave it at 3" diameter. The flanges are not warped at all and are thick, The welding on the inside of the primary pipes is pretty decent too surprisingly. There is 1 bung/port for an oxygen sensor, but I had planned on welding in my own instead so this port will stay capped closed.


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Yesterday, despite the morning snow storm, I drove down to Mufflex in Trenton, and purchased their single 4" system for $702 out the door. I decided ont he straight through design of the magnaflow muffler, taking into account everything you guys said in these past two thread pages. I'm sure some of you had the same reaction to seeing a 4" diameter exhaust, and man this pipe diameter is big! It is an aluminized system, with the stainless steel magnaflow muffler. It came with a bunch of band-clamps, hangers, and hardware. I spent a good amount of time chatting with Denny at mufflex and he gave me a heads up that this exhaust might cause my AFR to lean out a bit; so I should beware that I might have to add some fuel into my fuel tables. Good to know! Any of you guys have similar experience with a free flowing exhaust making the afr lean out a little bit?

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Got everything unpacked this morning and laid it out in the driveway, putting my old exhaust system next to it. I measured the lengths of the primary header pipes on both the new ebay headers as well as the old DynoDon's headers. I started drawing out what my middle section might be comprised of, based on our discussions above and some photos that others have posted on previous threads on TGO. I knew that it really would be better for my visualization if I bolted stuff on the car, so after lunch I started bolting stuff on (see next post).

Below are just a few photos showing the similarities/differences of the dynodons vs the ebay headers.





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.

[IROCZman15]

...continued

flanges/ports:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51807683287_1582f5ec3c_z.jpg


Inside Ebay collector:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51809367215_c84cd38d46_z.jpg



Inside DynoDons collector
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51808989284_8bc4c84e60_z.jpg


Magnaflow muffler:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51807674032_03f30b86fa_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51807674022_d24422cdf9_z.jpg



I got everything picked up off the driveway and brought the new components into the garage, where I turned on the heat and put on some tunes. I cut off the necked-down section of the header's collectors and I will true up the cut before I weld a V-band onto it. Then, I started with the passenger side header, and I predicted it would be easy, but I did not expect it to be that freakin easy. I probably didn't need to even take out the spark plugs, plug wires, or undo the other wiring, but I do think that I would have needed to remove the starter...which i had already done. This header slipped right in like a dream. I was laughing in astonishment as it was happening! Then I went to the drivers side, where I had also already removed the plugs and wires, oil pressure sensor, as well as the Walter-racecraft steering shaft. It went right in just as easy as the passenger side! The only cursing I was doing in my garage was to the tune of "holy s***, I can't f****** believe this is going this easy! Underneath, I was elated to find out that these headers truly do not hang all that low and at the bottom of them, they are still about 1" above the bottom of the oil pan. I only installed them with 3 header bolts per side, but they are snugged up and I used the old gaskets for now...knowing that I will be taking them out for welding. Oh, and the protective covering on them is Glad peel-n-stick kitchen wrap, just to prevent my hands or tools from scuffing them up. I will be putting a T-fitting for my oil pressure sending unit,and I am going to be adding a secondary oil pressure gauge to the car, up on the A-pillar in February. As for the oem steel transmission fluid lines, I have always fought with those and I am done. I am going to buy a few linear feet of 5/16" copper-nickel tubing and some fittings so that I can route the lines in a less obtrusive manner under the car. I will also be getting some DEI heat shielding to slip over the trans cooler lines too.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51809377040_f04a8ef180_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51808638006_c00290d134_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51807683477_61fc05b12a_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51809381835_cc6d6e1e74_z.jpg




I had the headers in so quick that I just kept on moving and decided to mock-up the mufflex system too. I wanted to see where the "front" of the main pipe would be so that I could start to figure out the middle #2 section. The mufflex pipes are very big but I was super impressed by the fitment and placement of the bends. Looking under the car before installing them, I said, man this wont work. But once I put em in, I was like wow, this is niiiiiiiice. .



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51808642866_88011d6f42_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51807688452_fd63a92b32_z.jpg



So that leads me to the complex project of what to do in the middle. I absorbed everyone's input on my exhaust thread on TGO, as well as other technical research I did across the internet, and I am hoping I can pull off my plan here. I am fully aware that this will require me either building a new transmission mount/crossmember and also notching out some portions of the oem frame to create pockets, and I am ok with doing that. I also will need to cut and redo parts of the S&W crossmember that holds the torque arm and doubles as a driveshaft safety loop. However, if I can do that properly, I think I can have a long 3" collector off of each header pipe and then bring this to a 3" y pipe with a cutout on each side. These dual 3" y-pipes can then join into a 4" flowmaster Y (part number Y300400) which can then meet up with the mufflex system. I did a rough 2-Dimensional sketch of this on cardboard.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51808642856_0a82462527_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51807688437_82c6df2b84_z.jpg






Anyone have any thoughts on why this would NOT be a good idea, or if it is genuinely a pretty good way of building things, I would like to start ordering some parts tomorrow night. I would need a second DMH cutout, along with its corresponding Y-pipe ($199 total). The flowmaster 3"-4" Y pipe is like $60. I am considering some of that fiberglass heat-wrap on this whole Y-pipe section. I am fully aware that heat wrapping it can trap moisture and rust the pipes, but it might be beneficial to keep the heat inside the exhaust pipes instead of radiating out of the pipe's exterior and baking the transmission, underside of the cabin, and nearby lines/electronics. Thoughts? If I do decide on some heat wrapping, it might make sense for me to use some sections of my old hooker 3" exhaust system to use for straights, curves, and pie cuts when building each collector. I already have the pipes and it would save some money on buying new sections of 3" tubes to cutup and weld together.

So, that is where I am at for now. Got wayy more done today than I had planned on, so thats good, but I know I will have my hands full in the weeks ahead as I get the rest worked out.

[Blackbirdws6]

My car was tuned with the mufflex so I can't comment on the leaning out comment/question. Nice to see someone has good luck with fitment of new parts. Very jealous.

As for the exhaust system merge, that's essentially how mine is. I would personally ditch the cutouts at this point. The magnaflow muffler is not going to do much to quiet her down and you have plenty of flow happening here. Just a thought.

Oh and for wrapping things, I'd recommend getting them coated. It will be more expensive but a couple folks have commented that once you get some oil on them, it never really burns off completely. Granted you've fixed your leaks but we know how things go. I'd leave it bare or get it coated.

[BonzoHansen]

Yesterday, despite the morning snow storm, I drove down to Mufflex in Trenton, and purchased their single 4" system for $702 out the door.

A mile away from us and didn't even stop to say hello to BTK and me. I see how it is. :)

Its about time you got a real exhaust. Throw your cutouts on the shelf and move on. Resist your urge to complicate making ice. :)

Anecdotal observation, but when I put the new headers & exhaust on the Z can ran better and did lean out a bit. That was going from ****ed up old hooker super comps & cobbled 2 1/2" mess to 1 3/4 ARH headers & dual 3" pipes.

[LTb1ow]

Another vote for ditching cutouts.

[IROCZman15]

Thanks guys, good stuff. Should have stopped by to see you guys down south, didn't think of it. Decided on not installing cutouts and I am thankful for all input on the topic too. IT will save money, cut down on fab work, save space, and whatnot.

Not too much of a progress update recently, got busy with some other things.
I did get some time to cut out some sections of the oem frame-rails on the passenger side of the transmission tunnel. There is no other way to truly tuck a 3" collector along the area of the 700r4 transmission and the design of the oem inner "frame-rail". stick shift guys have more space and those with smaller automatic transmissions, but not me with the 700r. But, No need to be alarmed, as I immediately used very beefy angle iron to reinforce the remaining frame rail and welded this angle iron to the floor-pan sheet-metal. I also welded a reinforcing flat plate in place on top of hte angle iron too, so it is strong and all stitched together. Once the final placement/fitment of the 3" collector pipe is in place, I am probably going to add a type of triangle brace into the framerail also. I still have to wait to do all that until I build a full transmission cross-member from scratch, so I have some work cut out for myself. No photo updates for now, and taking that much metal out of the frame was a bit scary, but I assure you guys that I welded a lot of reinforcement to make up for the removed frame. keep in mind that I have the subframe connectors coupled to extra bars that go to the rocker area and another section where a sandwich-plate bolts through the floor...along with a full 6-point roll bar. The reason I did all this, is simply to retain ground clearance with the entire exhaust. There was no other way to do this without notching/removing the section frame. I am certainly not the first person to do this, but it is a path less traveled.

after Speaking with some knowledgeable people, I decided to get some sections of that "flexible" 3" pipe...(which is still surprisingly rigid!). This is simply to allow an element of FLEX in the entirety of the exhaust pipes, while the engine torques and twists, and the car travels along the road/tracks. Lots of stories about cracking welds, exhaust leaks, and stuff because of rigidity in the entirety of the pipes, and this has been the culprit of a lot of people having crazy efi/tune issues; even running way rich via ecu fuel correction and killing oxygen sensors. While the flex pipes are unsightly, I think that these flex sections will be beneficial. I made sure I got the kind that are braided on the outside, but fully lined inside the pipe.. not the cheap-o kind. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-643030. These will go after my o2 sensor, but before the two 3" pipes join to the 4" mufflex exhaust. (using hat flowmaster scavenger 3"to4" merge)

Regarding the oxygen sensors, I was never a fan of where the sensor bung was in those Dyno Dons headers. I wish the bung was a little further back in the collector so it got a "blend" of the 4 cylinders, instead of just the two cylinders nearby it. (Its not visible in my above photos due to the angle I took the picture at, but its just real close to the edge of the primary pipes in the small merge) Anyways, this always seemed to cause a bouncy/erratic AFR reading... that probably was just due to the firing order and exhaust pulses. Along with the holley sniper's wideband oxygen sensor, I use the highly recommended HBX-1 oxygen sensor extender, which is a MUST do for nitrous.
-- my question for you guys is about oxygen sensor placement. I've read a bunch about it, and know that it has to be upright or at the very least, angled so that it can't retain moisture. We don't need to discuss that.... My question is more about how far back from the collector it can be? Since I will not have exhaust cutouts, there will be no chance for ambient air to give a false-reading through the backside of the exhaust system. It is very crowded under these cars, and I want the sensor in a safe spot, where it can get accurate oxygen count readings, and the closest I can get to weld a bung onto a collector pipe is 17-18" from the very end of the ending edge of the primary pipes. * This is exactly where the oem transmission mount/crossmeber is... and is the best chance I have with enough real-estate to install the bung/sensor. Is this too far back? One oxygen sensor will run the holley sniper efi, and I plan on adding in a second o2 sensor so I can finally have some type of reading of what the passenger side of then engine is actually doing. This will go to a gauge in the A-pillar, because the sniper can ONLY use one o2 sensor for its calculations... but I can compare the left bank with right bank in my brain and probably have enough length in the o2 wires to switch them side to side for comparison.

[LTb1ow]

What does the holley manual say for 02 sensor location, that is what I would go off of.

[wretched73]

You'll be fine, my truck and the C6 put the O2 sensors further back and there are obviously no issues.

[IROCZman15]

Good to know, thanks fellas.

The manual just had the basic generic info that I had expected. Even the official holley efi youtube videos were pretty generic about it, saying not to let the sensor get too close to the exhaust systems exit, and also mount it upward to avoid fluids puddling in it.
-I did get some good info over on the holley efi forums on a thread I typed up last night. Most importantly, that if I move the sensor more downstream, I might have to go in and adjust the sensors "advanced control" . Interesting to know. Apparently, even though the sensor sends immediate data to the ecu, that data is "old" because it has taken "some time" to reach the sensor after actually combusting in the cylinder.

here is a link to the thread:
https://forums.holley.com/showthread.php?52549-How-far-quot-downstream-quot-can-I-install-an-oxygen-sensor


See below for the photos of my new ebay headers and the dyno dons headers and you can get a sense of why I think that the sensor location isn't getting a true reading of all 4 cylinders... its just too close to the primaries.

New ebay headers with o2 bung location:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51828251037_c894d9329d_z.jpg


Old dyno-dons headers and bung:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51829926040_888c7e440f_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51829545179_dc5bc05b15_z.jpg

see what I mean about how I just don't believe that a sensor located there could get accurate readings on all 4 of the primary ends? Maybe the two of them nearby the bung, but not the far two.

[The_Bishop]

Just don't run the sensor too far back. It needs heat to work, and too far away it'll get cold and 'lazy' in it's response.

[IROCZman15]

yea, I agree with you. I am going to try to get it to the closest accessible spot in a collector, but the massive 700r4 and trans tunnel sheetmetal prevent me from a good amount of possible mounting area. The closest spot I can feasibly get a sensor to live would be back by the tailshaft....thats pretty far back. Since the sensor has to be facing downward/vertical I just dont have any upward clearance areas until about the tailshaft. I'll see what I can do, still fabbing up the transmission crossmember. It has become quite the massive project.

[IROCZman15]

A good bit of progress, but nothing specifically exhaust related.

I think I mentioned above that I was going to have to get creative with routing the exhaust because I am UNWILLING to let my exhaust be the lowest component of the vehicle. I did not want the hassle of banging exhaust pipes closed-flat on a speed bump or pothole, or having welds crack, and throwing off oxygen sensor readings or the whole tune. I did not want to have to regularly repair exhaust damage or deal with the leaks, so I did what I had to do and made sacrifices to the oem sheetmetal/frame-rail under the car...specifically the passenger side. The stick-shift guys have it made when it comes to clearance between the transmission housing and the trans tunnel, but not for me with the bif 700r4 trans. Almost everyone who has a 700r and wants a 3" collectors settles on having them hang really low and passing almost "under the framerails" completely. Not something I was going to allow, I was determined to find a better way. So I took a different approach and cut out half of the "box' that made up the passenger side inner frame-rail along the trans tunnel. It is surprisingly thin metal just stamped, folded and spot welded... but it worked just fine for the stock chassis indeed. I kept the outside "rail" and then welded a series of 2"x2" pieces of angle iron to this edge and to the underside of the floor to retain rigidity in this area of the car. I then cut some flat plates of metal and lapped them over the angle iron and welded them to the angle iron and the floor sheetmetal where the oem frame had met the trans tunnel. My subframe connectors also connect to this part of the oem frame, and I boxed in the open area at the front which is near the firewall. My welds were decent, but the damn rubber based undercoating kept giving me problems despite me doing my best to scrape it all off. I used a heat-rated seam sealer on the welds, gaps, and any open areas, and while the seam sealer will serve a nice "sealing" purpose, it made the underside look messy and unsmooth. Once the seam sealer was cured, I painted over everything with VHT high heat engine enamel satin black paint. Not everyone might like my approach to this, but its my car and what I thought was the solution that would give me the most options of collector clearance. It is structurally sound, for sure.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51843274191_6f53851c15_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51843384578_174c3d67c3_z.jpg
-please remember, this cut out section of frame was reinforced, but I didn't get to take a picture of it before seam-sealer and paint.sorry





I did a whole lot of research on crossmembers, both on fbody sites, drag websites, unibody car stuff, etc. I saw some interesting stuff, and I knew that to get the fitment I was looking for, I would have to build one. The hooker trans crossmember and some others are ok, but each left a lot to be desired, and I knew I would regret buying something that didn't check all the boxes I required.....plus NONE would fit with the way I cut out half the passenger side's framerail.
So I was on my own. I came up with a cardboard design using arches, but it didn't seem feasible. I then designed one out of heavy card-stock and used the strength properties that come with triangles and angles to create a mock up. I got some scrap steel from work, some from home depot (which I didn't use and returned) and some from a local welding place for $20. In the end I used the 1.5" angle iron for the outer mounts, the 3" x 3/16" flat stock for the "arms" and some "gusset supports" and then the 3"x1" rectangle tube for the base. The trans tunnel of these cars is filled with weird angles and interesting geometry, which left my home-built trans mount not aesthetically symmetrical, but it is super strong. As I mentioned a week ago, I have always wanted to do away with the threaded-inserts that the factory used for mounting the trans crossmember. Three out of the four were previously stripped out and I had re-tapped them with a bigger thread size, but I was always unhappy about it. So, I bought some huge 1/2" diameter grade-8 zinc coated bolts and welded them to a 1/8" plate that lives on each side of the sheetmetal floor in the driver's compartment. Drilled holes through the floor, the oem subframe rails (and my passenger side home made angle-iron rail) and used three bolts per side to locate and hold my transmission crossmember up. Also, not pictured (but already drilled and mocked up) will be several long 3/8" bolts that go horizontally through the crossmember's outer mounts, through the car's frame rails, and through the mounting pad of the S&W subframe connector too. These will secure the trans mount laterally. This thing is not going anywhere, and it is robust. I will have to weigh it compared to the oem unit, but it had to be done with heavy duty strength in mind.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51844015485_bfd7a803d1_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51843385643_21d39ed7f9_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51844015490_86c4d52017_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51842376832_9f151f6fdf_z.jpg



this is a view looking backwards to teh rear of the car along the driver's side, obviously fuel lines and all that are just loosely pulled aside still
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51842386062_376d628f27_z.jpg

looking backwards on the car along passenger side trans tunnel. don't mind the sloppy seam sealer.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51843685459_be518ea7f2_z.jpg

looking up from the passenger side :
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51844063870_8840520404_z.jpg



If my measurements are correct, the way I built the "arches" in the trans crossmember, it will allow me to bring up my 3" collector pipes about 1 5/8" higher than where the would have lived if I let them hang under the frame and oem trans crossmember. They will not be the lowest item on the car. So that's exactly what I was gong for, primarily to save ground clearance.
- this all took a ton of work, and I hope it all works out. Seems ultra strong here sitting in the car, but the true test will be when the car is driving/racing around. I still need to cut/modify the crossmember that holds the torque arm and rebuild some type of driveshaft safety loop, so that will be soon. However, I am now getting to the point where I can actually start to work on the exhaust components. First will be putting V-bands on the header's and then working out pie cuts, pipe, and flex-pipe to get to the flowmaster 3"to4" merge collector.

On another note, I did get the pulleys and diff cover back form the powdercoating guy, with tip, just a tad over $100. Installed the diff cover but have yet to install the pulleys. the diff cover comes from moser with a slightly textured aluminum finish, so the powsercoating is not glass smooth, but it turned out great. I had him mask off and keep the Moser logo on there too.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51842336952_ebf64de599_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51843315411_045f3efb66_z.jpg

[IROCZman15]

Having the transmission cross-member and mount done was a big cross-off and it allowed me to move on to modifying the cross-member that spans the gap between the right/left sub-frame connector, and it also doubles as part of the driveshaft safety loop, but most importantly, it is the front mount for my adjustable torque arm. The bottom part of it has been the lowest point of my undercarriage for 10+ years, and I knew I could not run the exhaust any lower than this point all along the underside of the whole car. The 4" pipe barely fit above it, but I knew the exhaust would need some movement/flex as the car drives along, so I made the choice to cut out a section of the cross-bar and put in a notch. I also needed to re-bend the 3/16" steel that is the driveshaft safety loop, and I cut of the one mounting tab for it and moved it a few inches outboard on the cross-bar. The notch in the bar will be right where the 3"to4" flowmaster merge will be and it should have good clearance when the exhaust is finally mounted on metal hangers add anchored good. However, just in case, I might want to put some type of "heat safe" padding or isolator between the merge collector and that flat piece on the cross-bar. What kind of material would work for that?

here you can see the six 1/2" bolts coming from above , and also the 3/8" bolts that go horizontally from the frame/subframe through the trans crossmember side mounts
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51853752915_9f8fd7ff46_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51853169888_b7ae84cc90_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51853096866_5e61c0c945_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51852131297_8df6c8c531_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51853755280_de92521ce3_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51852140382_d8e64bfdd1_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51852140407_015850fb46_z.jpg



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51853106216_abc4164941_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51853764085_22938e1f15_z.jpg








I temporarily positioned the mufflex system, but my next task will be welding the v-band flanges onto the ends of the longtube headers. I pulled out the headers today, so maybe after work tomorrow I can get the flanges on them. Once that is done, I can install the headers for good, as well as install the starter, run new copper-nickle trans fluid lines, and install the oil pressure sending unit as well.


Then it will be onto a new challenge for me, making the pie-cuts and lengths of pipe that will run from each header to the flowmaster 3"to4" collector. This is where I will have a section of straight 3" diameter pipe that I plan on welding in some oxygen sensor bungs. I will also be using those flex-pipes, but I am going to put them downstream of the o2 sensor, (in front of the merge pipe), just in case they have any small leaks.. it hopefully wont get screwey with the o2 sensors.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51852140422_f37bed8cef_z.jpg


Drivers side idea
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51852140412_b52799a54d_z.jpg

Pass side idea
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51853106231_25ea58f4c4_z.jpg

[TaKid455]

Pie cuts are a great way to practice TIG welding. They can be frustrating yet rewarding once completed.

[IROCZman15]

very true Larry, I am excited to get more tig torch practice in!

Today after work, I did just that. I tig welded one flange of the v-bands to each header's exit. I used my old Miller EconoTig, which is from 1994, so it does not have all sorts of settings like new welders do. Its pretty basic, just a few knobs and a foot pedal, but it was up to the task.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51080157547_f45074b633_z.jpg



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51010879655_9ed8a361cc_z.jpg




Today was the first day i welded on an actual stainless steel part, as opposed to scrap stainless pieces that I collected from work. Anyways, I used 1/16" 880 filler rod and followed the advice of the internet welders.. but working in small sections in order to avoid warping the flange. I wish I had a nice big welding bench, as I had to stand up and work in contorted angles to get proper torch angle on the round pipes, but all in all, I think it turned out pretty decent.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51854254882_7afee4de3e_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51855873615_0a3e694c9e_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51855215101_e2d9425a91_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51855215096_f07c8017f1_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51855215121_6eb461f78b_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51854254872_4eb4bbae52_z.jpg

[sweetbmxrider]

No shame in that, nice work!

[Blackbirdws6]

Looks good from here!

[wretched73]

What is 880 rod?

I use 308 filler on the 304 stainless parts I weld

[IROCZman15]

thanks fellas. It is coming along, and I hope to have this thing on the road in a few weeks.

The 880 rod was reccomended to me by the guys at the County welding supply store that I go to often. Since I will be doing tig weldign on various metals, I needed something that could be used to join different metals. I do have some stainless filler rod (I forget the number) but it is 3/32" and would probably have been too big for the v-band flange there. On the opposing/mating v-band flange (which is stainless) I will have to weld this to my 3" diameter collector pipes which are aluminized steel. I never planned on doing a full stainless collector pipes, especially since the flex-pipes are not stainless anywhere. The o2 bungs are stainless, but all the 3" pipe is not. So the Weld-Mold 880 rod is what I decided to use because it is considered to be the best affordable multi-purpose filler rod for dissimilar metals, at $28 per pound.

[LTb1ow]

If you can, try to have both V band flanges clamped together when you weld them. Even when you do that, verify the flange did not warp after welding.

[IROCZman15]

definitely, for sure. Great idea. I do remember hearing that while watching some v-band videos, and I am glad you brought it up... because I was getting all excited to install the headers tomorrow. But now I'll weld up the other sides of the flanges and that way minimize potential for warping. Thanks man

[IROCZman15]

The garage and my tools have been taking a beating recently and currently R.I.P to my trusty angle grinder, a electric drill, my bench-mounted vise, and something is jamming up the wire in my MIG welder. Everything is dirty and metal shrapnel/dust over everything. getting impatient to wrap this project up and do a garage re-set and cleanup.

Anyways, I spent some time bending up all new transmission fluid lines to replace the oem steel ones that had been well abused, bent, cut up, and simply always in the way for many years. I made nice clean new ones out of 5/16" copper-nickle tube and flared the ends. I also re-routed my fuel lines, rear-brake line, fuel pump wiring harness, and oxygen sensor wiring harnesses, higher up inside the trans tunnel to keep them away from exhaust heat. They should all be safe from moving objects and heat now, and I will probably wrap them in that heat-shield sleeve stuff later on. I got the two powdercoated pulleys on the engine too (no belts yet). Added in a secondary oil pressure line which will go to a new autometer oil pressure gauge on the A-pillar. Also bought a nitrous pressure gauge and the AEM UEGO X-series wideband oxygen sensor. Only the oil pressure gauge was hooked up so far, but not yet installed in the A-pillar.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51881051085_86caa8eaba_z.jpg

(probably going to roder that silver bezel for the AEM gauge so it matches the silver bezels on the nitrous and oil gauges.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51880478753_7160024363_z.jpg



After all that was installed, (and the headers with new gaskets), I wanted to check for leaks before proceeding with the fabrication of the collectors and merge pipes. So I got all the car's electronics hooked up and fired it up. I put the sniper in open loop, because I did not have the oxygen sensor installed.
--- Damn, this thing I was way louder than it ever was with the dyno-dons shorty headers. I decided to take a video of it, and the phone camera/microphone really does it no justice. Its loud in a good way, but too damn loud and if left like this it will be causing a ruckus everywhere. I am curious to see how the volume changes once the collectors, merge pipe, 4" pipes and magnaflow muffler are in place.

video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Z4ayM82tM



I had a few hours real quick today to try to fab up some collector pipes. I originally intended to get all creative with stainless 3" pipes and lots of pie cuts, but this project is wearing me down and I decided to just use some of those 18" long 3" diameter sections of pipe from autozone for $12 piece or something. I did a few pie cuts, but I don't have a metal chop-saw with a base-clamp, so I essentially just used the angle grinder to guess my best guess at some angles and chopping things up. If I gotta re-do this one day, I'll make it more professional, but now its more about getting the project done and moving onto the next stuff...because Island Dragway opens March 6th this year.
-I used the TIG to tack the pie-cut pieces in place, which was NOT my initial plan. I was going to tack them quick and easy with the MIG welder while everything was under the car, but the MIG is acting dumb. So I had to lie on my back, holding the TIG torch in one hand, filler rod in another hand and using either my shoulder and sometimes my knee to work the welders foot-pedal amp control. Not how I intended to do it, but its tacked in place and now I can put the pieces on a bench and weld them up properly... after I go get more Argon, because the bottle ran out today as I was tacking stuff in place. Just can't win recently !




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not thrilled about any of these quick-n-dirty tack welds, but they are holding and I will get it all zipped up nice on the bench once I get TIG gas refill.
The headers themselves do fit good. I did run into a clearance issue when I went to index the starter, so I had to cut a slice off of the mounting area on the starter body so that the starter gear could index the flexplate properly. I built a bracket/hanger off the starter to hold the trans lines too. I've noticed that the drivers side header does come down a bit lower than the passenger header, and there is nothing I can do about that, so I just worked the 3" collector pipes on each side accordingly. I do like these v-band clamps at the header/collector flanges, so i am glad I did that. Not sure if I will cut in a v-band at the 4" pipe too, but for now, I am going to leave the area where the flowmaster merge pipe connects tot he 4" main pipe as a slip fit with a band-clamp. Can always change it later on.



As for the oxygen sensors.... My gameplan has changed from a few weeks ago when we discussed where to put them. I initially planned on them landing somewhere near where the tailshaft of the trans is, but thats where my flex-pipes are. So I am going to squeeze them in alongside the trans body right about where those red pieces of tape are. They will be angled just slightly off from vertical, so basically at the 11:00 position and the 1:00 position. Anyone foresee any problems with that? Its about 8ish inches away from the header exit, so the airflow will have a blend of all 4 primary pipes. Thoughts?

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[LTb1ow]

I hate being the negative nancy, however, NHRA prohibits fuel lines running down trans tunnel. A broken u joint, or driveshaft can and will grab them, just a thought.

Safety stuff is important.

Otherwise, the Y pipe looks great! If the vbands don't seal up perfectly, run a bead of rtv copper on the surfaces and clamp em up.

[sweetbmxrider]

I like the O2 position better. Don’t the liners on mig guns **** up sometimes causing wire feed issues? Try laying it straight and see if it feeds.

[IROCZman15]

great point Matt. Ok, i'll see what I can adjust. Most of the lines in the trans tunnel are tucked up quite high now, but the ones near the driveshaft tunnel can be adjusted. You are right on that being a safety issue. also, good suggestion about the RTV copper. I picked some of that up as a "just in case" thing. I like these evil-energy v-bands as they have a male/female grove built into the flanges, but it's probably a good extra leak-proofing to use the copper if I think there is a misalignment.

Adam, yea, I am much happier with the location of the oxygen sensors. The other plan was going to be a concern for me. I welded in the o2 bungs today real quick and they are 6 5/8" from the v-band flange. I put a cheapo o2 bung extender and a bolt into the bung while welding to give the heat a place to travel to and avoid warping the bung. I had to put them on an angle because of the curvature of the trans tunnel. I won't be able to unscrew them when this y-pipe is mounted to the headers, but all I have to do is let it hang by the flex pipes, screw the o2 sensors in tight, and then lift the whole assembly up to the headers and tighten the v-bands.
-also yes, I am super hopeful that the mig gun's liner isn't fubar or anything. As far as I was expecting, the mig gun liners is probably as old as the welder itself, which is mid 1980's. I am going to try to fiddle with it this weekend because I will need the mig welder to weld in the actual exhaust hangers which will locate the mufflex pipes and magnaflow muffler. I don't think the tig will be up to that.
--sidenote, while welding up those pie-cuts yesterday using the tig torch, I adjusted the flexible head like I usually do in tight spots, and heard/felt a crack from the torch gun. So, the torch is no longer an adjustable head, but now it also isn't fixed...it just kind of bobbles around...which is super difficult to get a crisp weld line. DAMN! another tool busted up.

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so, yea, now that the pipes are welded in and the bungs, the last thing I have to do is weld up the joint between the flowmaster 4"to3" merge and the silver mufflex slip-collar.
-After thats done, I am going to scuff the whole thing, prime the whole piece (not the flex pipes) with VHT primer and then some VHT paint. Then it will be time to put on the header pipe-wrap. I know that like Brian said above it will hold oils and debris, and its a pain to work with the fiberglass , but I am fully interested in keeping the heat in the pipes and less radiating to the nearby trans, fluid lines, fuel lines, floorboards, and whatnot. My biggest question is, should I wrap those flex pipes too? Did some research and some people in-fact do wrap flex pipes. They suggest wrapping the flex pipe as a separate section, in case I gotta take that part off... I wouldn't have to unspool the whole y-pipe assembly. I am not going to wrap the mufflex main pipe or anything past the drivers seat area, so basically JUST this y-pipe. Thoughts?


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[LTb1ow]

Heat shields are your friend. See if you can rig up shielding that mimics how OEM's do it. Space it above the pipe and clamp to it, should radiate heat down fairly well.

I wouldn't suggest wrapping em, their too close to the ground and you will end up with a frayed mess after a year or so of driving.

Alternatively, something like this could work well for you, again with the insulation facing the car.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/the-11600?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQiA3rKQBhCNARIsACUEW_Z0MdTDy3Jv4SiRf1a8 pBaj4psKRJA2j0MQaTgIhw4Yhk67nW0iCp4aAtiXEALw_wcB

[IROCZman15]

Damn, a shield would be better yea, but I definitely don’t have any head room above the pipe to work anything in there. I can barely fit a finger above the pipe in most areas. I did my best to do this so I could Maximize ground clearance . Saw those
Heat sleeves. That might be something I might do in the future yea. Already bought the heat wrap a month ago and the metal zip ties .
It might get messy over time yea, I guess I’ll have to take that gamble and switch it out if needed. I know for Sure that there are 3 chassis points that are a good 3/4” below the lowest part of this y-pipe arrangement so if I do hit pavement, it won’t be exhaust, it will be frame/car/tubes. I definitely Agree with ya but I’m hoping the wrap will do a littttle bit to
Help Heat, and maybe I could do a sleeve later on. I’m getting impatient to
Wrap this whole project up and do some Test drives, and then hopefully order the new rear drag wheels and tires soon too

[IROCZman15]

Got the y-pipe cleaned up, sanded down, and shot it with VHT primer followed by a coat of VHT paint. Across all my avenues of car buddies that I asked, most said to avoid the heat wrap, but some said to do it thats the route I went (for now). if it turns out to be a problem, I'll just take it off. I used plenty of metal zip ties and faced all of the tails upwards. Out of the 50 foot rol of heat wrap, I was only left with about 1 foot of leftover. whew!
I installed both HBX-1 oxygen sensor extenders (important for nitrous) and then I installed the holley o2 sensor in the drivers side bung and the new AEM o2 sensor in the passenger side bung. When it was all said and done, they are 6.5 inches from the v-band at the header . I am happy with the placement and the angle of them. Bolted up the y-pipe and those v-bands work great; they just sucked everything together nice and tight. Took some time to locate the best position for the main 4"pipe and welded on a hanger for it. Got the up-and-over axle pipe in, as well as the magnaflow muffler. Welded up a hanger for the tailpipe and tightened everything up. I will re-tighten all fasteners after a few heat cycles. Did a test fire up in open-loop and was happy that the violent sound of the open headers was noticeably muffled. For a street-car, this is perfect. In the video (iphone 7 camera) it sounds quieter, but it has some deep ground-pounding thump to it. My experience with magnaflow mufflers has been that they are a little quieter at first and after a bit of use, it will get a little louder. Not sure if its for other styles of magnaflow mufflers, but we will see. As it is right this moment, its really good sounding. However, no matter what, this whole exhaust system will flow tons better than my old system, and that was the primary goal.


video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLdrrhktakU


some photos.

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Next, after tightening fasteners, I want to check/adjust the driveline angles since things probably shifted a bit when I built the whole trans-crossmember. Some other quick undercarriage projects and then its time to get this thing on the ground, so I can road test it and take some measurements of the underside clearance on everything exhaust/frame related. After that, I have to install the 3 new gauges into the a-pillar gauge pod and install carpet, seats, and whatnot. Then it is on to probably a few measurements and ordering the new rear drag wheels and tires.

still mostly thinking of the 15" Jegs ssr star wheels (to match the front skinnies) and then a MT ET Street SS tire in the 275/65/15 range.

[sweetbmxrider]

Looks and sounds good, Dave. Nice work as usual.

[Blackbirdws6]

She sounds good! Beard is filling in nice too!

[thehazguy]

Dave, sounds great. Bet you can't wait to get it to the track

[IROCZman15]

thanks fellas. If anyone notices anything concerning or has advice, as always.. feel free to shout it out. I would rather make changes to the car now instead of later. That's the reason I post all this typing/photos, so that if I am doing anything way-off, someone can steer me in the right direction.
- It does sound good, but I'm eager for the magnaflow muffler to get worked-in because I'm 99% sure it will get a little louder and then it will be perfect. I'm like 95% happy with the sound. Also, with the car on the ground and the exhaust pulsing off the pavement, that might change the sound a little bit.

I'm glad you guys steered me away from the exhaust cutouts, that would have been such a headache, and not worth it for flow or sound. Much thanks. Oh, yea, beard is good, prob going to shave it off in a month or so; as I only usually do it for the wintertime and then it gets a bit annoying. But thanks, wife likes it too!


I'm excited to get to the track yup, but I still need to put in a bunch of road testing first; and order the rear wheels and tires soon too. I gave the whole underside a wipe down and checked some bolts today after work. I played around with the adjustable torque arm and driveline angles a bit, but I want to revisit my measurements after I give the car a drive to shake out the suspension a bit. Then I brought the car back down to the ground. Was very very pleased with the overall ground clearance. For reference, I put a soda can and a 4"x4" wood block that I took a true measurement of it and it was 3.5" tall. So, using that as a gauge, I spot-checked a few key areas. I have at minimum 4" of ground clearance, so that is a big win. Will see if anything changes after a few shakedown drives of the car, and I'll then also tighten up all exhaust bolts.


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[LTb1ow]

If you can, turn the V bands so the threaded rod is vertical and tucked up more. All it takes is a rock or similar to chew up the threads and life gets miserable.

[IROCZman15]

very good point. I will certainly do exactly that on Sunday when I get back under the car to tighten a few things after some heat cycles. Thanks man, you are right.. if those threads got boogered up by something, it would indeed be a bad day.





During the exhaust project I installed a second oxygen sensor bung so I could visually monitor the passenger side exhaust gasses of the engine. Prior to this, I only had one o2 sensor and it was in the drivers side header, which is all the holley sniper ever needed.* *So, I bought a 3-pod a-pillar gauge cluster and installed an AEM afr gauge (with its wideband sensor), an oil pressure gauge, and a nitrous pressure gauge. Turned out good, I like it.

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Next, is the rear drag wheels and tires. I think I am 95% settled on what I want to order, but I figured I would run it past the group first.*

Wheels:*
-Since my front drag wheels are the 15" Jegs SSR star wheels, I will be going with a matching Jegs SSR star rear wheel. I don't need a 10" wide rim and the headaches it may cause on my lowered car with inner wheel clearance. So, I think the 15"x8" wheel is what I will buy.* As for backspacing, there are only two choices, either 4.5" or 5.5" backspacing.* I like a wheel with a deeper dish as opposed to the look of the face of the wheel outboard. Running the numbers and measuring puts me doing good with a 4.5" backspace but 5.5" might be a little tight around the parking brake mechanism. I have those C4 corvette style brakes (Lt1 style ??), so they are larger than stock.* just for the heck of it, I bolted up one of the 15" jegs front-skinnies and played around with the spacing/measurements. It might be tight, but I think it will work.

4.5" backspacing*link:*https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/680272/10002/-1
or
5.5" backspacing link: https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/680278/10002/-1



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Tires:
My current MT ET Street SS dot tires are on the 16"x8" iroc wheels and are a 255/50/16, which are about 26" tall.* *I am looking for a 28" drag tire that will help stretch out my gears at the top end of the track, and since the MT ET street SS rubber has never let me down, it would make sense for me to stick with that tire, just in a 28" tall version. I have probably close to 80-90 dragstrip passes and 500plus miles of street driving on these tires and they are not really too worn down, so a new (taller) taller set will get me a couple years of use. I think anything else, like those et street radial pro or the hoosier radials is overkill for my car and despite being stickier, would wear down within a*year of use. Most of those tires are on backorder too, yet this ET street SS tire is available to purchase/ship right now.* So,* The 28" tall MT ET street SS tire I would get would be the 275/60/15.*
link:

https://www.jegs.com/i/Mickey-Thompson/672/3453/10002/-1


I plan to sell the current IROC-Z wheels with current mickey thompson drag radials in a few weeks once the new wheel package is good to go, so if someone wants a pair of oem iroc wheels with sufficient rubber left on a set of well proven drag radials, let me know and I will sell them to you at a fair price, but not interested in shipping them

[sweetbmxrider]

Shaving the cooling fins down some is a typical mod to get the clearance needed.

[IROCZman15]

Yep, I am totally up for doing that and hopefully thats all it turns out I need to do; a little buzzing and some paint.
Some shaving of the e-brake stuff might need to happen, but I'll cross that bridge if I need to. I spent some time on the corvette forums (since they run these C4 corvette style brakes) and did read that some people indeed had to grind down some cooling fins. Some of their posts were pretty old and even though they used a jegs ssr star wheel, those star wheels were designed different back then ... if you guys remember my old front jegs star skinnies, the whole backside of the wheels was bigger and bulkier. But just this past year when I bought the replacement jegs star skinnies, the new design/mold of both the front and the back is different and less bulky. So the old posts I read were kind of useless...and basically I will just have to order the wheels and mount them up to find out.

Placing the order for the new wheels/tires before the end of tonight.


..... last bit about the wheels. but back in the Fall I had a chance to try out my buddy John's rear drag wheels which were a 15" diameter wheel and running a Hoosier Quick Time Pro tire which measured 27x10.5 15-LT . I was curious about overall height and also about inner wheel fitment of a 15" wheel with my brakes. The calipers cleared by just a very slight bit, but his backspacing was about 5.25" and I had contact between the parking brake brackets and the inner barrel of his wheel...even left a small scratch. I know its a different wheel and design, but that's all I really have to go off of.

Photos of his wheels


His wheel next to the wheels I ran for the past two years 27" vs 26"
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Took the car out to fill up the gas tank with 93 since its been low on fuel all winter. Got into the throttle a bit and left some tire smoke trails in the process, with no hood on. Car ran good and exhaust sounds good. Header wrap is still smoking a tiny bit, hopefully that goes away soon, it gives off a unique smell. When i got home, despite the roaring wind, a few neighbors lent a hand and we got the hood back on the car too.

Boxed up one of the two Stroud 5-point safety harnesses and I am sending it back to Stroud for a re-certification since my SFI on those harnesses expires June 2022. $65 plus shipping.

[IROCZman15]

Got the wheels and tires a few days ago and just got a chance to get em mounted and balanced. Bolted them up and aside from some very slight shaving of the caliper fins and drivers side e-brake cable tang, they fit perfect. Perfect offset, perfect height, and perfect width. The drag-bag Air bags will help keep the tire from hitting the upper outer fender lip and I'm a big fan of how much better the bigger diameter tire fills out the space of the wheel-well. They weigh in right around 44 pounds. Not sure if I am going to use the center cap on the rear wheel, but I will keep the center cap on the front skinny. Got plenty of threads of the lug stud exposed if tech inspection asks to check lug engagement. overall, great, just gotta see how well they perform, and will soon post up my old Iroc wheels with the et streets for sale in the classifieds in hopes of offsetting the cost of these wheels.




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pre-grinding photo:
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post grinding photos: (will paint caliper tomorrow)
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with my rear 18" Boze street/autocross wheels which have a 295/40/18 tire on em:
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compared to my old rear iroc wheels with those 26" tall et street tires on them:
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[LTb1ow]

28s FTW!

[sweetbmxrider]

Plan to check alignment? Wondering how things are sitting now with the new height. Looks good though!

[IROCZman15]

thanks matt. I'm digging it too. I'm going to take the car for a drive tomorrow and bust out the laptop too to get the tune stuff lined up if it needs it.
adam- I'm probably not going to do an alignment because these wheels will basically only be used for the drive to/from the dragstrip and while making passes. Since I did the alignment last year with the new Falken tires on the street/show/autocross wheels, its pretty well dialed in and I don't want to mess with it. You do bring up a good point though, and I am curious to see how it drives and street manners.

[IROCZman15]

Took the car out this afternoon, but whew there was a lot of people on the road so didn't get crazy. Made some adjustments to the idle in the driveway, and with the new placement of the oxygen sensors they are able to get a better more uniform reading of each bank.. but especially I am able to have a more accurate idle and I did NOT come home smelling like exhaust fumes which was a common occurrence these past two years. Still will need some tuning at WOT because I was seeing AFR numbers in 11s, 10,s and occasional 9s when I would get heavy on the pedal. Obviously it lacked power there too and I felt it. I'll see what I need to do to get that dialed in, but the exhaust/muffler is opening up and getting a nice louder sound to it. I know I have fouled plugs from all the quick on/off cold starts over the winter but I actually didn't expect really rich AFR numbers when doing the exhaust project; in fact I expected leaner afr numbers instead. Next drive I will take more datalogs, but the ones I took show some pretty heavy CL comp negative numbers (pulling fuel out) while still being rich. Light blue line is target AFR, pink line is actual AFR, and yellow line is CL comp%. I'll dig into it soon. Learn table data said it was Adding fuel at these rpms too!

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.

All coolant temps and numbers were good on the dashboard. Had between 30-40 psi of oil pressure at hot idle, and right between 65-70 when on the throttle. Still running that winter 10-30 thin oil for another week and then I will switch back to the 20-50 VR1 for the rest of the year. The drivers side (holley) afr readings are about half a point leaner than the passenger side (AEM wideband) numbers. I think I am probably a little low on trans fluid too and might need a slight adjustment of the TV-cable, but will check that out. The new rear wheels handled just fine along with the skinnies. No rubbing from anything in the front or the back. Put some air in the rear drag bags too and the rear suspension was quite firm, so I'll tone it down if needed, but I don't plan on doing frequent road driving with these wheels on either. Took a few photos too.

oil pressure at idle:
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..and oil pressure at moderate throttle:
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[LTb1ow]

I would change plugs prior to transferring any learn over.

[Blackbirdws6]

Ditto on the new plugs. Looks great with the wheels/tires.

[sweetbmxrider]

Wheel/tire setup does look good

[IROCZman15]

It has been a while but I do have an update.
Despite the several times I wanted to go to the track in March and April, the repeated bad weather and rain-outs didn't allow my spring shakedown of the car to happen until just this past weekend. Even the swap meet I wanted to go to, got rained out. Anyways, prior to going, I had done some street driving and street rips with the car and was moderately "ok" with the AFR numbers I saw on both the Holley and the new AEM gauge. The car felt pretty slow on the street and I had done datalogs and tune revisions several times. Basically I would do a pull in 2nd or 3rd gear, and the car was real rich at tip-in and stayed that way while sloooowly climbing the rpms. Adjustments to the base table and AE were never really fully successful, so I went into the Test and Tune Friday night at Island Dragway with pretty low expectations . However, I knew that if I got a few actual WOT dragstrip passes, I could probably dial in the tune better. Jerry and my buddy John went to the track too, and Jerry brought the firebird. I had hoped to get about 5 runs on the night but that plan came to a halt when a huge oil down happen just after the first few sets of the cars went down the track. That cleanup took 1 hour and 50 minutes, so basically 2 hours of a 4 hour race night were gone and I didn't have a pass in yet, and temps were going down as well as track surface temperature.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52009560063_7cab2f4927_z.jpg






Pass 1:

Finally got to make my first pass at 9:21pm, and it went pretty well surprisingly. I had set the brand new rear MT tires at 19.5 psi. Air bags were at 7psi drivers side and 11 psi passenger side. Rear shocks were both set at 4/5 so on the tighter side. After a 3.5 second burnout I footbraked the launch from 1109 rpms. Rear tires had a very slight slip, but then hooked and I shifted 1-2 at 6,490 rpms. rpms dropped to 4,816 in second gear and I shifted a bit early at 6195 rpms. Rpms dropped to 4,772 in 3rd gear and then I crossed the finish line at 6,069 rpms. I was targeting a 12.8 AFR in closed loop and total timing was 34.0 deg advances. The car felt good, and it didnt do anything funny, but I expected a low 12 second slip. Was certainly surprised to see an 11.78 e.t. at 115.7 mph, which is actually my fastest N/A pass to date (previously was 11.800 back in november 2021)
-Checked the datalog and was happy with what I saw, but knew I might only get 1 or two more runs in for the night. the fueling still went rich at the hit, like very rich (in open loop), but as soon as closed loop came on, it cleared it up and I looked over the CL comp numbers. I would love to get that rich dip out, but pulling fuel from the base table (open loop) and the AE functions still doesn't seem to help?

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EswZSWsQqP8



Timeslip:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52009560038_08204e4d14_z.jpg




Datalog:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52013104177_2c4cbb6740_z.jpg




Pass 2:

I was satisfied enough with that NA pass but I know I could improve on it NA later on in the coming weeks. Did not pull spark plugs, maybe I should have checked a few. I wanted to see how a nitrous pass would do and I had to decide if I should do a fixed 150 shot and see if it would hold the launch, OR do a progressive ramp. i decided to try the fixed 150 shot knowing if I got a 3rd pass I could load the progressive tune in and make adjustments if needed. Jerry jumped in the gamblers $ race and John was running his Envoy because his silver 3rd gen TransAm is still not up and ready. Jerry video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nv-F-gifsWs

With the 150 shot tune loaded, I kept the shocks and air bags the same. I lowered the rear tire pressure from 19.5 to 18.0 psi. Did a 5 second burnout. I launched from a dead idle at 921 rpms. The nitrous came in withte full 150 shot mid way through 1st gear (as I set it to do) and it spun the tires. I pedaled it very quickly, got off the button, and then got back into it, shifting 1-2 shift at 6,611 rpms. The rpms dropped to 5,272 in second gear. Took second gear to 6,607 rpms and it dropped to 5,023 rpms in 3rd gear. Nitrous turns off at the shifts if I hit the hi-side 6,500 rpm limit I pre-set. I crossed through the finish line at 6,510 rpms which was just a fraction of a second after the nitrous clicked off.



Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpEYRY72Cp4


Timeslip:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52010023885_cc7529eb19_z.jpg



Datalog:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52014649110_c2f0081ca9_z.jpg



pass 3:
I now knew that I would have to wait until another day to test the full nitrous launch, but I looked over the datalog and aside from the spin in 1st gear, I was happy enough with the AFR numbers that I saw. I target 12.4 afr on nitrous and the holley adjusts CL comp to this. My AEM gauge is usually a bit richer with the readings, in the 12.0-12.2 range if the holley is reading 12.5. (still not sure why..) So at this point in time, I am happy keeping the afr rich (safe) and then working from there as opposed to running it lean and dialing it back. I loaded the progressive 150 nitrous tune in, which ramps from 50%-->100% in 1.2 seconds (essentially spraying a 75 shot ramped to a 150 shot in 1.2 seconds; see below) I also increased the rpm rev-limiter for the nitrous cut-off to be at 6,700 rpms instead of the 6,500 rpms from last run. John advised I try the other lane and that I take more psi out of the rear tires so I brought them down to 17.0 psi.
- I did a decent burnout, but as I rolled to the line I did not see that the guy next to me had pulled way past the line and started staging with his back tires. At this point I was already staged, while they rolled him back. I probably could have rolled back out, but I decided to just stay where I was at. He finally got it sorted out and when the tree dropped I left from an approx 920 rpm idle again. I felt the tire slip (maybe like 1/3 of 1 rotation, not too much), but then it was allll good. unfortunately the datalog recorded very stupidly and it only has very strange intermittent data points. the log started recording normal, and even ended normal, but the whole middle, it only seemed to record about 1 data point every half second. So I have no data on shift points, rpms, fueling, closed loop compensation, or anything. That especially is sad, because this is data I wish i had for the future, because this turned out to be my best pass to date, with a 10.77 at 126.7 mph !


Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUphOhmyzqk
-***- watch this video until the very end for a weird surprise as to what I saw happen!


Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52009754559_4040b6c1fd_z.jpg


Datalog (if you can even call this nonsense a datalog?!?!)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52014380344_16cc9757a8_z.jpg

(entire datalog) see how it starts and ends with LOTS of data points, but gets "dumb" ? what the heck is that about?!?1
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52014380314_ef1f0bba9a_z.jpg

progressive nitrous tune settings/limits/timing:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52014649125_f143708850_z.jpg

and

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52014380329_f373d94cde_z.jpg




I did NOT expect any personal best timeslips during this shakedown-session , but I am ok with how it turned out. The personal goal I set over a decade for this car was mid-high 10s on nitrous and mid-high 11s on motor. If this car can pull a 10.55 timeslip at 130 mph, I will consider that as "goal accomplished", so I am hoping I can get there. Maybe on a day with a sticky track for a great launch (and wheelie) and i can up the jets to the 175 shot or the 200 shot. After hanging out with the fellas in the pits, I packed up and drove the car home, thumping into the garage at 12:30 am with a sense of relief that the car didn't do anything dumb after a big winter of garage work.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52014380299_6348ecb4eb_z.jpg



The next morning, with the tools removed from the car, I took it over to get an approximate "race weight" on the car at the local stone quarry's scale. With me in the car it weighed 3,620 pounds, which is heavier than last year. Later on in the day I switched the race wheels out, put the subwoofers and amplifier back in the car and weighed it in "street weight setup" to learn that it weighs 3,780 pounds with me in it.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52009509311_389389e972_z.jpg




While looking over the car remembered that I had heard a clunking noise from the back of the car when going over some bumps on turns. Soon noticed that it looks like the "roto-joint" end on the axle side of my UMI Panhard bar is experiencing some wear and clunking. It was hard for me to film it and shake the car at the same time, but you get the idea
video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmgMg8miHmI
I guess I will call/email them and see if it is salvageable, or if I need a new joint.

[sweetbmxrider]

Nice passes! Congrats on the new bests, too.

[townsend]

nice work!

[Blackbirdws6]

Can't argue with progress. Nice work! 10.50's aren't far away!!

[IROCZman15]

thanks guys. I'll keep on chipping away at it. Hopefully some more Test-n-tune and I can get the timeslip I've been after for a long time.
the car is running pretty darn good on the street too, and I put about 80 miles on it last weekend.


- I emailed UMi abotu the loose roto-joint on the panhard bar. They advised that it most likely just needed to be disassembled and then I could tighten up the outer face of the adjuster and snug up the set screw. I did that, and t fixed it right up! awesome


I am thinking that I might go to the Nostalgia Spring event this upcomign Sunday May 1st at Island Dragway.
https://www.islanddragway.com/events/list/
Since I have yet to make a set of consistent nitrous passes, I would probably be better off just running the car N/A since it has become pretty consistent that way, and maybe I could go a few rounds in the N2 (10.00-11.99) class?

[IROCZman15]

I went over to the Nostalgia Spring Event at Island Dragway on Sunday May 1. Lots of cars were there and the weather was good almost all of the day until 6pm. Jerry was there with his firebird, and I had already decided to run all motor for the bracket-race event because the car is much more consistent that way at this point in the game. We got two time-shots (test runs) so I did one in each lane.
I have in-car video footage, and it had audio with it, but I think when I clipped the videos to length I didn't click the button for retaining the audio.. so that stinks, no sound. Sorry.


Pass 1: (test pass)
Footbraked the launch from a dead idle and launched at 966 rpms. Shifted 1-2 at 6,571 rpms and 2-3 at 6,386 rpms and going across the finish line at 5,949 rpms. Felt good, and turned out to be my best NA pass to date by a little bit. Track photographer snapped a photo of the leave, and the rear squat is looking much better with the air-bags and these taller tires... but it was nothing dramatic for a launch photo. .

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52053494895_9f9fc548aa_z.jpg


Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNgIE0JluEE

Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52053675230_e097aa0db9_z.jpg


Datalog :
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52053005441_fcf36a898d_z.jpg



Pass 2: (test pass)
After looking at the learn data and datalog, I was happy and left everything with the tune alone... in fact I just re-used the same tune as pass 1.
Car felt slower, and timeslip confirmed it, but not by too much. I think engine temp, air temp, and heat soak to the sniper tbi were a factor. Footbrake launch from 1741 rpms. Shifted 1-2 at 6,564, shifted 2-3 at 6,596 and finished at 5,931 rpms.

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqQvrPVv76g

Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52053675225_7ecc27c13f_z.jpg

Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52053038313_a3701805a0_z.jpg




Pass 3: (Round 1 Eliminations)
Chatted with Jerry and some other racing guys about what to do. I think I over-estimated how much I would want/need to slow the car down, so it was probably my mistake by dialing in an 11.85. My thought process was that I could tap the brakes if I was too far out ahead. Instead, I left way late on the tree, and around the 1100 foot mark the car int he other lane blew past me. I had actually just started to get off the throttle (see green colored dip on datalog, that is the the Throttle position sensor), but then when he passed me I got right back on the throttle thinking I was going to now be wayyy slow. Instead, I was still well below my dial-in and got knocked out.
- Footbrake launched at from 1828 rpms. 1-2 shift was at 6,623 rpms and I tagged the rev limiter just a bit. 2-3 shift was 6,583 rpms and I crossed the line at 5,933 rpms which was weird because I had gotten out of the throttle just one second prior.


Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUnwVphrTi4

Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52053422729_ee74acd65e_z.jpg


Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52053005451_5c8d34c68e_z.jpg





Pass 4: (test pass on nitrous)
I spoke to the track staff and as the event was winding down to a close (and the weather radar was showing a big rain storm coming right at us) I waited for more competition rounds to go on. When there was a break in the action, I did a solo test pass. I have been curious to move beyond the 150 nitrous shot, so I put in my home-math calculations for the 175 horsepower nitrous jets. I also knew that the track prep was great and the starting line should be great. but I didn't want to put a fixed 175 shot on the launch. So , I did a progressive ramp from 50% (of 175 hp) to 100% (of 175 hp) over the course of 1.4 seconds.
- I footbraked the launch and left at 2,032 rpms. I had the nitrous programmed to come on at 2,800 rpms and when it did, I felt the front drivers side wheel come up and then touch back down to the ground. The launch was great and was the best 60 foot I have had to date. In fact, everythign about the pass was the best to date, especially 106 mph in the 8th mile and the 10.601 e.t. Anyways, first gear ran up quick and it was on the rev limiter faster than I could react to, so I lost a little bit there, but I shifted 1-2 at 6,641. The 2-3 shift was at 6,536 rpms and I went through the finish line at 6,571 rpms. It felt fast, especially the first half of hte track. Was bittersweet to see my timeslip, because I was hioping that it was the 10.5x second pass I have been working towards, but instead it was just supppperrrr close to it. However, that means that I now know a 10.5x pass is possible. Mayyybe not a 130 mph speed though.
- I was pretty stoked about the 1-wheel in the air launch, but sadly, by this late hour in the day, the track photographers were long gone so I only have the dashcam footage (with no audio sadly) ad you can see the hood shake a little bit as the tire came down. But there was this video from the bleachers with audio, and I actually think the car sounds damn good with the true sound of just one small block chevy with a full muffled exhaust system and on nitrous going down the track.


Video (in car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzFt4zYqYks


spectators video:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gwdetMeYnuQ


Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52053002616_29ab991905_z.jpg


Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52053494890_9b48121ffd_z.jpg


I am pretty sure that I can now go back one day when the track prep is really good and the track photographer is there in order to get a photo of the car lifting a wheel (or 2) up at the launch. I also think the 175 shot will get me into the 10.5x territory, but if not I can put in the jets for a 200 shot and that should be it.
-as I was packing the car up, the sky grew dark and rain drops started. Yet, it didn't rain too hard and I had a pretty easy drive home. Good times indeed. the car seems happy too.

[sweetbmxrider]

Awesome, Dave. Glad the car is performing well. Hard work is paying off now 8-)

[Blackbirdws6]

Getting closer!!! Spray it all.

[IROCZman15]

Its been a little while and this was a good time to update this thread.


Did a few car shows and cruise nights in recent months, and a bunch of street driving, but was unable to get the car to any local SCCA or MSNE autocross events; as my wife and I had our first baby who was born mid June.
Like last year, I was hopeful that I could get some autocross laps in before the big UMI Autocross challenge event, but sadly that was not the case.


The UMI event was this past weekend, and I barely had time to pack and prep the car. The day before leaving I took the car over to weigh it with almost all of the gear and tools in the car, and it weighted 4040 pounds. The next day I packed the rest of the stuff which was another 30-40 pounds, so the car was heavy for the 230 mile trip out to the track. Left med day on Thursday and the drive was pretty damn good. Spent about 80% of the drive cruising at 80-85 mph with the torque converter locked-up. Since I had decided to save some money and not stay at the hotel this year, I drove directly to the track. Stayed in a tent this year, as many more people each year are camping in motorhomes, trailers, tents and whatnot. Got setup, unpacked car, registered and hungout with a bunch of familiar faces, as well as walking the track. the weather was due to be hot all weekend, with temps mostly in the 90's.

Friday went well, I might add some details later, but having not made any autocross laps in almost a year, I needed to get re-acclimated. I left a little bit on the table, but ran clean runs without any cone penalties which is more important to me early on in these events. I have to keep reminding myself,t hat I have done absolutely zero upgrades to the car to make it better prepared for any autocross since last year. Every year, these guys are getting faster and building better cars, and that is not the case for me this year. Almost everyone there shows up with their car on a trailer and ready to rip; only a very few street drive, and generally we are not that fast. Some people are running 3 and 4 degrees of negative camber, and I am only at -1 degree. For the most part, I am outgunned "off-the-bat" by about 50% of the cars there. Anyways, we got 3 runs in the morning and then 3 runs int he afternoon. Just prior to my final run of the day, a heavy rain and windstorm came in, so that delayed everything quite a bit. I took soem guest-riders on several runs and that is always fun to do. UMI provided a big lunch, and an even bigger bbq/grill dinner, along with nighttime entertainment of a country band, fire pits, and big cornhole tournament.


Saturday, they switched up the course and it was a modified reverse version of Friday. I got a little more aggressive during the runs, and got faster, but, of course, so did almost everyone else. Got 3 runs in the morning and after the UMI lunch got 3 more runs. Took some riders and on my very last run, I clipped 1 cone.
Hungout for a bit as the event finished up, then packed up my tent, gear, tools, etc. A big rain storm was heading to the area, so I bounced out of there about halfway through the awards ceremony. Got on the highway and made the long drive in a relativity short amount of time. Overall, out of 125 registered competitors, only 114 showed up and made any laps...and of that number, I finished in the 72nd spot of everyone, which puts me in teh 63rd percentile. Scott and Billy were there as usual, and they outgunned me by a bit this year.

The car never skipped a beat all weekend. Tires were outstanding, powertrain was stout. Power steering pump did not overheat and fail. Car behaved fantastic on the highway even loaded down with all the extra gear. The only catastrophe of the whole entire 4 day event was that during the rain/wind storm one of the fiberglass poles on my tent snapped.

I is unlikely I will have the time to get to any other autocross events this summer, but I might be able to get a few car shows in. I do plan on getting to some drag racing events in the fall, and would be very happy to get that elusive 10.5x timeslip. I am also super motivated to get a proper wheels-up launch, so I am going to start digging into that topic soon here on the forums. Possibly a different torque converter, since there are no reputable trans-brakes for a 700r. Anyways, the UMI Autocross event was spectacular, as always, and I look forward to doing it again next year.



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52244146074_00928411e3_z.jpg

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https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52244158129_6b4d7907fd_z.jpg

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https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52246046611_aa04a335d0_z.jpg

[sweetbmxrider]

Seemed like a good time as usual. Thanks for sharing.

[Blackbirdws6]

I keep telling myself I'll get back there but other obligations make that a challenge. Glad you enjoyed the event. You're absolutely right on the number and quality of builds that show up.

Next year I'll hope to get there...

[IROCZman15]

Videos:
Watching playback of the videos is interesting. I know the course and keep watching saying, man it felt much faster, but looks so slow on the screen. The car is pretty much at its capability for g-forces and not spinning out or sliding around too much, so as fast as it was (and as slow as it looks on screen) is how its pretty much going to be.

Day 1:

Run 1: 41.821 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mts1HHvj3pM

Run 2: 40.293 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nvxldo-hxg

Run 3: 39.475 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCMnZkMsYz8

Run 4: 40.665 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO_m3RGE25w

Run 5: 39.393 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuJUl82Tw_g

Run 6 39.801 seconds (after it rained and track still was wet in areas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZNW55gTiZY


Day2:

Run 7 : 39.273 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9_TwCau6P4


Run 8: 37.931 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCkFSrNALs4


Run 9: 37.586 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eucnZk7-80Q


Run 10: 38.402 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpKJFaUUm-Y


Run 11: 37.553 seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQvatPAydbM


Run 12: 37.364 seconds (plus one cone which is a 2 second penalty)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2cFIhqU7ac

[IROCZman15]

Woah, time flies. I have not had a chance to update this thread in quite a while. Life has been ultra busy, but the car has not been forgotten. In fact, in early August I finally got serious about the topic of a better 60foot and the hopeful "money shot" wheelie photo that I have always wanted to put on my garage wall. Spent a LOT of time researching stuff like transbrakes, converters, and suspension stuff, mostly on Thirdgen.org. In fact, I created an entire new thread about it over there and it is filled with pure technical info, advice, photos, videos, results, etc. Here is the link to it: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/transmissions-drivetrain/782100-my-quest-good-wheelie.html (lots to read, not short)


Anyways, as you will see at the bottom of that thread, I do have the ew converter installed and the car is happy. I just need the rainy weather to cooperate so I can get this thing more dialed in before winter arrives.

The old Edge racing3400 lockup converter was great. Still it! It did outstanding things for the car, on the street, dragstrip, autocross, and on nitrous. But to hit my personal goals, I knew I needed to get something a little more purpose built for the car. Dave Meyers at Yank converters is awesome, and we spent a LOT of time on the phone in early August discussing all aspects of this topic. He is the owner of the company for decades, and every time I call, he is the only one who I speak with, no middle man and no confusion; very cool. We spec'd out a PAS-3800 which is the Power Adder Series with lockup and a 3800 stall. He has it setup to somehow take care of the BIG rpm drop that I used to experience between WOT shifts while drag racing too or as he called it the "shift extension". Its great. And the lockup clutch is super awesome too! For comparison, the Edge 3400 converter I would have it unlocked in OD on the highway and activate lockup manually and it would take 400-500 rpms out of the engine. The new yank 3800, If I lock it up in the same rpm are on the highway it takes 900-1000 rpms out of the engine! Truly feels like I have a 5th gear.



Some photos.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52377611371_7d16e4451b_c.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52377838723_12db816ed9_c.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52389870595_1a44319bdf_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52377921329_7e7e4d1766_c.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52389870590_e7e6b119ff_c.jpg

filling up trans fluid with little buddy
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52389687988_be97cbf8fb_c.jpg

[IROCZman15]

this whole post is a copy-paste from TGo so I didn't have to retype it again for njfboa.
Sorry if the formatting is weird.


After getting the converter bolted in, trans back in, driveshaft, y-pipe, new spark plugs, fixing a stripped header bolt into the Dart 215 aluminum cylinder head, and topping off trans fluid, I went out at 11pm last friday night and put 121 miles on the car, making sure to lockup the converter manually probably more than 100 times, under light loads in several gears. The 3800 Yank converter takes a slight bit more throttle input than the 3400 Edge to get it going from a stop, but its not anything drastic or bothersome. Fluid temps stayed normal the whole time during this drive, but ESPECIALLY when I had it locked up. Wow, in OD (4th gear) on t he highway I was taking the unlocked rpms to about 3200 or so and then activating lockup, and it would take 900to1000 rpms out of it! The old edge converter took about 400-500 rpms out of it in OD, but this is double that. It engages with a solid feel and totally feels like I have a 5th gear; incredible. Got home around 12:45 am, well pleased. Put another 11 miles on the converter the next day while fueling up and whatnot, and then for the remainder of the 150 mile break in period I counted my slow and easy drive to Island Dragway as part of it on Sunday morning. This meant that I arrived at the track with no heavy-footed brake-stall testing or knowledge of how things would react under heavy load. Oh well, that's why I was just doing the Test-n-Tune portion of the race day and not the brackets.

After the usual safety-tech inspection I got the care prepped related to tire pressure and suspension settings.
** SIDENOTE; the tech guys confirmed some of the rumors that I had been hearing about most tracks starting to switch their big and medium sized race events over to 8th mile only. Only a few events and some test-n-tune events will remain 1/4 mile. I think a lot of people watched it happen elsewhere, and they said most north eastern tracks are doing this in 2023. Anyways, there was not that many cars and bikes there at the track, so I was hopeful that I would get a good 7or8 runs in, but we all knew that rain was on its way in the early afternoon.

Set front tires to 50psi, rear tires both to 18.4psi, rear shocks D: 2.5 and P: 3, rear air bags D: 7.2psi and P 10.2psi. I went off of the settings that were close to where I have had luck in the past, but I think I am going to soften up the bags, shocks, and tires in the future, just a little bit.

mid-typing photo break.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52389482206_f479eba3e2_c.jpg





Pass 1:
Did a 6 second burnout, but I had the rpms too low and not sure if it was sufficient. Staged, and got on the footbrake while throttling up, but it revved past where I intended it to be, and slow pushed through the beams. So, I just launched and took the red light rather than restarting the process. The tires spun (track was glued but had no heat in it whatsoever yet). Pedaled it very quickly and it hooked and pulled the front drivers tire up a few inches! (Unknown about the converter flash on this pass due to the pedaling). Shifted at 6512 (rev limiter) and it dropped to 5138. Shifted from 2-3 at 6181 and it dropped to 5275. Crossed the finish line at 6042, but I was very tender on the throttle for my first pass with the converter, and I never went full WOT (see upper green line on the datalog, that's the TPS sensor. Normally it would be 100% the whole pass). Glad to not have any noises, weird vibrations, shakes, or issues after the whole converter/trans project; got the jitters out of my brain. DA was 1,441 and the temp was 64deg with 72% humidity. my mph was slow, but the sixty foot was better than I had EVER done wit the old converter, and again, this was with tire spin off the line!


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52388557587_860cc07cb7_c.jpg


Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52389774193_47042900ea_c.jpg


Datalog screenshot:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52388557697_c5d3a1f5a4_c.jpg


GoPro camera:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Fdm2NVG3I



Dashcam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDseA3LsBTg








Pass 2:
After a very brief look at the datalog, I jumped back in the lanes because there was talk of rain coming inbound. I kept the shocks and air bags the same, but lowered the rear tire pressure to 17.4 psi. Did another 6 second burnout, but had the rpms higher this time and got some heat into the tires. Footbraked the car to 18811 rpms and think I can go more in the future, but 1800 was my number last time or else it would push through the beams. Launched and according to the datalog, it looks like the converter flashed to 4773 rpms?! Datalog shows it went rich (9.6 afr) at tip in, so I will have to sort that out. It definitely lifted the front up on this pass, and that felt good. I short shifted it though, at 6267 which dropped to 5227 and then shifted the 2-3 at 6319 which dropped to 5365 in 3rd gear. Crossed the finish line at 6-63 rpms. It felt fast, despite the rich dip at the launch and the short shifting, and only being at a max of 91% throttle instead of 100% wot the whole pass, it went my fastest 1/4 mile e.t ever, of 11.67. Mph was slow, but I think I have an idea why. Most importantly,. the launch felt great, and the timeslip showed that It went 1.491 in the sixty foot, which is by far my fastest N/A sixty, and real close to my best ever nitrous launch sixty (which was 1.44). Dave Meyers at Yank had told me back in august, that my days of bring in the 1.6x second sixty foot zone were over and assured me I would be in the low 1.5x to high 1.4x sixty, and he was dead on, even on my first outing. WOW! Got a nice photo of it too. DA was 1412 and 64deg with 74% humidity.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52388556007_c97b6fe8fc_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2nPp3vD)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2nPp3vD) by David Martin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/iroczman15/), on Flickr


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52389728438_fcf393d20a_c.jpg


Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52389528816_dfb6d2fa80_c.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52388603792_6b371eff76_c.jpg

GoPro camera:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKu5XHdB1QI


Dashcam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O0e56IC5v4








Pass 3:
Decided that I was going to try an easy progressive nitrous pass, so I turned on the bottle. Small rain sprinkle came in and I had the bottle heater off. They dried the track quick and called us to the line, and I had no heat in the bottle so nitrous pressure was only 825 psi, very not-optimal. I had the 150 hp nitrous jets in there but had the shot ramped in from 50% of 150 hp over a 1.2 second sweep. So basically it was a 75 shot at the hit and then it would ramp to the 150 hp in 1.2 seconds. Did another 6 second burnout. Footbraked on the line to 1691 and launched. Car hooked and with the nitrous hitting, it looks like it flashed the converter to 5130 rpms. I short shifted 1-2 at 6297 which dropped rpms to 5717 in second gear (woah, only a 600 rpm drop! nice) Took second gear to a short shifting 6208 rpms and this dropped it to 5574 rpms in 3rd. I had set my high-side rpm limit on the nitrous to turn the nitrous off at 6300 so at the top end of the track it hit that nitrous rev limiter a few hundred feet away from the line, so I got off the nitrous button and finished all motor at 6263 rpms. Timeslip was pretty good, again, testing only today. DA was 1560 at 66 def and 74% humidity.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52389910120_e130d30516_c.jpg

Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52389957375_74ee14dc58_c.jpg



Datalog screenshot:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52389774203_73228f19dd_c.jpg



GoPro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JD7Erz96S8


Dashcam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtjQLzYHd5s




Was super motivated to get another pass in, and I had changed the nitrous settings to be a fixed all-in 150hp shot which would come on at 3,200 rpms in 1st gear. I heated up the bottle to 975 psi in the lanes, and just as they were running the motorcycles it began to rain with no chance of it stopping anytime soon. So, just when i had my confidence boosted up, the track closed for the day. Packed up the car in the rain and chatted with a few of my buddies before hitting the road. Drove the car home in the rain with zero issues. Overall a good first test outing, but I know I would have benefitted from a few more test passes. I am elated about some of the numbers I am seeing, especially the less severe rpm drop in between changing gears, which is something Dave Meyers said his converter would resolve! I had left the whole 4" mufflex exhaust system off the car when installing the converter/trans and I am definitely going to put that back on (later today probably) and do an oil change. I want to check spark plugs too, and a few other things, but I am super excited to get back out to the dragstrip for some more passes. Was planning on going tomorrow, but this rain from hurricane Ian is now here in NJ and it might wash out the whole weekend. Nonetheless, I am going to prep and pack the car to go race tomorrow anyways.
***Oh, and the photos I took of the photographers online photos, I DID buy two color printouts from him, but they will take 2 weeks to be delivered, so I didn't really steal these from his website, since I paid for prints.. I just don't have them yet.

So, some more track time, and a nice 150 fixed nitrous shot launch looks promising for getting both wheels up high in the air and a nice photo! And some real quick sixty foots I hope are also in store!



I'd say at least 60% of my race events these past few years end up with me driving home in the rain. Ha, but ugh!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52389477011_53c415c72f_c.jpg

[thehazguy]

Dave,nice shot yanking the wheel(s).

Took some time but your work has paid off.

Nice job.

[3.4 grape of wrath]

I'd say she's a keeper, nice job.

[Joey D]

Great wheelie pic. Sorry I brought the rain when I showed up to watch.

[IROCZman15]

thanks guys...more to come, hopefully this Sunday goes well.
Nostalgia event at Island with some of the normal weekend bracket racing classes, plus vintage funny cars, about 8 of them. So, the track will definitely be good and prepped, and maybe, if I can do my job right launching the car on a nitrous hit, I can get the nose of the car another 8" in the air for a killer photo. But I also want to run fast and get some timeslips to better my old converter setup.


link to Sunday:
https://www.islanddragway.com/event/fall-nostalgia-classic-plus-neto-mandra/

[V]

Awesome work, progress, and dedication.


I wanna get my car to Island for some Test and tune before they close for the season. Not sure when though. I haven't been to the track since like 2012 so i'll probably embarrass myself. Too bad no one is having a rental that I know of.

[sweetbmxrider]

Glad you got a good converter in there now, can’t wait to see a full nitrous pass.

[IROCZman15]

Went over to Island Dragway this past Sunday knowing the track prep was going to be good. Knew I am not dialed in for a big bracket race, but since there was no available lanes for Test-n-Tune, I jumped into the N2 (10.00-11.99) Bracket for the Fall Nostalgia Event. Weather was stellar. There were a LOT of cars racing, plus they had 10 nostalgia alcohol funny cars and two nitromethane vintage funny cars, so lots of crowds that day. Got there way early before the gates opened and I was already at the end of a long line of traliers and cars. After I got in, I found an available spot wayyy up by the end of the 1/4 mile where the overhead E.T. and MPH signs are.

Each group only got 1 timeshot test pass in the morning, and then it would be on to round 1 eliminations where I fully expected to get knocked out. For my first pass, I had the car setup with The front skinnies at 48 psi. Rear tires at 17.6 psi. Rear air bags 7 psi drivers side and 10.2 psi passenger side. Rear shocks at 2.0 drivers side and 2.5 passenger side. The 150 jets were in it, and I am beginning to think that when i was doing the math to pick the jutting #'s for a 150 shot, I went too big on the fuel jet? Anyways, I had a progressive tuneup for that 150 shot, and it ramped in from a 75 shot to the 150 shot over 1.2 seconds, and timing ramps from 34.0 na to be 2.0 degrees while spraying the full 150 shot at 1.2 seconds in. Nitrous bottle pressure is kinda ballpark where it should be. My gauge at the bottom can say 1100, but hte one on my a-pillar nitrous gauge shows around 950, so I am going to have to figure that situation out, probably in wintertime, but I am guessing bottle pressure is closer to 1050psi.

Pass 1: Did a decent 6 second burnout. Was not concerned with reaction time, more about getting a good footbrake rpm at the line. Footbraked the car to 2506 rpms and let off sending the flash stall to 5130 rpms. I shifted 1st at 6622 rpms and the new converter put the 2nd gear rpms at 5562. I then short shifted the 2-3 shift at 6267 and it landed at 5724 in 3rd gear. I went through the finish line after hitting the top-end rev limiter on the nitrous file, so I got off the button and shifted 3-4 actually, just to see what it would do. I shifted from 3rd at 6243 and it brought rpms to 5482. Then i went through the traps finally, at 5518 rpms. The sixty foot felt great, but not earth shattering. I expected a good 1/8th mile but the back half of the track was going to be slower because of shifting into 4th and dogging the car down. I almost wish I had a better reaction time, because the race would have been a full side-by-side-to-the-finish race with the car next to me.

Timeslip:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52418050854_3513e3d3f1_z.jpg



datalog:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52421654566_d3e41beca1_z.jpgr





Go Pro Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDSobVZ62uk


Dash cam video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9LvPWdTtyY


Checked 3 plugs after the run and they were good. Looked at the datalog above and noticed what might be signs of knock in the rpm trace. Lowered rear tires to 17.0 psi, but all shock and suspension setting stayed the same. Decided to go add a little of the "race Fuel" additive that I used last year when doing full track nitrous passes. Decided to put a 10.55 e.t on the dial-in for round 1, and I moved the ramp nitrous come on with more % since I felt certain it would hook on the surface; after all, funny cars were! Did a 6 second burnout. Footbraked the rpms up to 3006 rpms which I quickly found out was just a little too muhc. the car began to push forward and I was staged so i couldn't back off. The car pushed through the beams and started the clock and thene I decided to hammer down anyways to get data and a full pass. Converter flashed to 5212. I hit the rev limiter in 1st gear and shifted away from that at 6558 which dropped roms to 5557 in 2nd gear. Shifted 2nd at 6360 and that landed a 5714 rpm in 3rd gear. Knowing that shifting into OD/4th was a bad idea, I figured it was time to lock up the converter so at 6108 rpms I hit the converter lockup button (too early?) and it pulled rpms down to 5729. I crossed the finish at 6389 rpms. On the datalog, the AFR was rich, the Closed Loop compensation was maxed out pulling 20% fuel almost the whole run (yellow line)....so either too big of a fuel jet or the issue with nitrous bottle pressure. ..also, i didn't really stand a chance of winning that round, the guy went 11.608 on an 11.60 dial-in.

Timeslip (my times all skewed because I rolled the beams and then launched, but the mph is useable):

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52418208810_c68193616d_z.jpg


Datalog:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52422103605_8494f40bdd_z.jpg



GoPro video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=areHmUOztbg


Dashcam video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs_ooW-f940



Hungout for a while with my Dad and some other racer buddies that were there; including jerry and his 57 in the N3 bracket. He was going rounds, winning like usual and picking up time/speed as the day went on but dead on his dial-ins and lights. Awesome! watched funny cars and gassers, and various groups of brackets run. After the funny cars made their last pass, most spectators cleared out. I asked the track staff if I could get one test-tune pass if there was a rbeak in the bracket action for a moment. They let me do so, and I was hopeful to redeem myself before heading home.


Pass 3: I loaded in a fixed 150-shot tuneup, one that I had used back in may 2022; no progressive nitrous ramp. All shock and airbag settings were the same but I lowerd rear tire pressure to 16.2 psi in both. Did a 6 second bunout. I footbraked, but never held a steady amount, so its aard to tell when I started to push the nose again, and unknown where I launched from. It does look like hte converter flashed around 4741 and I took first gear to 6515 rpms which dropped it into second at 5754. Took second gear to 6335 and this dropped into 3rd at 5733 rpms. Carried 3rd gear all the way to teh finish, and got off the nitrous which let me cross the line at 6503 rpms. AFR again was still very rich averaging 11.8-12.2 across most of the run. CL comp% was again maxed out removing fuel.


Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52418050864_c31f50ca59_z.jpg
datalog:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52421144232_149f847ff0_z.jpg


Dashcam video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAcgXHb51Ok

other video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9DFb0tErSg



Was decently happy with that, as it did hookup and launch pretty good but I think I gotta shot for a 2800 rpm footbrake launch. I am still hoping for that 1.3xx sixty-foot on a timeslip, and would love to run a real solid 10.4x quarter. I think it has it in it, the car pulls great and wicks through 1st gear wildly fast, but I think now my shifting habits from the old converter need to be adjusted so I stop hittingthe 1st gear limiter, and so I rev out 2nd gear more.

Anyways, I packe dup my gear, but I knew that Jerry was still in it, so I went down to watch him keep on doing what he does best. He went to the N3 brackt's finals, and won it. Got a nice trophy and that was real cool to see a friend win something at the track!

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvpnyxeuaKg




Some photos and funny car videos:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AArtLP0EdIE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4XaGPf6bXM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OraVfYgXbY

the usual way I do the burnout:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM4i_1AKWrc





The wheelies I am getting:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52424055974_93b9fa6550_z.jpg

The wheelie photo I want!!!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52424055954_cfa287bfb9_z.jpg

Pretty surprised It is wrinkling the sidewall of this drag radial. Slicks wrinkle for sure, but wasn't expecting this size drag radial to do so!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52417768671_b0ff48de4e_z.jpg



Jerry winning
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52418050844_8aacaf0839_z.jpg

And us heading out :
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52418208775_2108eaafab_z.jpg

[thehazguy]

Dave, nice write up. Your work has really paid off. Nice to meet your dad and hang with you.

Thanks for the great video and pictures.

You forgot to post the picture of you holding the trophy in the winners circle.

Good day & good times

Friends "ROCK"

Here, I'll post it for you. Dave, yucking it up in the winner's circle.

Hope you don't mind.

[IROCZman15]

Thanks Jerry, I had a blast watching you win. well deserved. It was funny to stand there in the winners circle, but cool nonetheless!

I am planning to go to Island this Sunday for Test and Tune during the Mopar event.
Some things I want to try if I can get 5-6 passes in include.
- finally making an all motor pass withOUT touching the shifter. I have always force shifted the car, and I am wondering how good/bad it will do if I put the shifter in D(3rd) and let it do its thing!?!
- jetting down the 150 shot fuel jet to probably a .027 jet which i will buy at Bruces Speed shop when I get the nitrous filled on saturday.
- trying to figure out the big psi discrepancy in my ntrous bottle pressure gauges and determine which one is accurate.
- launching from a dead 920 rpm idle both N/A and on nitrous
- launching from a 2800 rpm footbrake both N/A and on nitrous
- maybe trying to short shift 1st (or at least not ouch the rev limiter on the 1-2 shift). while revving out the 2-3 shift longer

I think the car is capable of a 1.39 sixty foot on the nitrous, I just have to re-figure out what it likes best at the launch with the new converter. I do remember when talking to Yank converters, they said that the way they are setting up this converter is for quickness, so my mph being lower than the 126 and 127 mph is not surprising to me. A 10.5X on the 175 shot would be awesome. Then, maybe next spring I can go onto the 200 shot.


edit: my dad was there and took some videos. Here is a freeze-frame from the first pass (because I had no dial-in numbers written on the back glass) so this is when it went 1.424 in the sixty. I'm going to take some air out of the drivers bag and put some air into the passenger bag tomorrow.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52429462045_2f28f2abcb_z.jpg

[IROCZman15]

Whew, its been a busy week for sure, so I have not had a chance to get all the videos, datalogs, photos, and typing done until now...a week later. Damn!

I went to Island Dragway last Sunday, Oct 16 for the Test-N-Tune portion of the Mopar Event. Weather was pretty good and with no chance of rain, I knew that I would get at least 4 passes in. I ran into a snag beforehand though, because Bruce's Speed shop (and the other place in Belville) are both out of all Nitrous-Oxide for refills. Orders have been delayed and delayed again, next delivery date is supposed to be November 3rd. So I only had half a bottle of nitrous to work with. I decided I could experiment with the nitrous stuff at the end of the day, and I was going to experiment with different launch and shifting stuff on the all-moto passes early on. So that's what I did. FYI: I haven't really had a chance to dive deep into the datalogs just yet, but i did take a look at some of them the day at the track and a little bit while I was taking the below screenshot datalog photos; I do need to dig into them a little more before hitting the track again.

Pass 1:
Rear tires at 17.2 psi, rear shock a tad lower than previous events at 1.5 drivers and 2.0 passenger side. Rear air bags at 5psi Drivers and 18 psi passenger.
Since I put the engine in the car and began racing it back in the Spring of 2020, I have always force-shifted the gears on every pass. I never had just left the shifter in D (not D-overdrive, but just D which is 1-2-3), so this was a good opportunity to see exactly what the trans does and how the converter acts also. I did this for Pass 2 also, but with a different launch technique. So, on this pass, I did a 5 second burnout and rolled to the line. I decided top launch from a dead idle, which was at 956 rpm as per the datalog. The car left and converter flashed at 4797 rpms. It made the 1-2 shift EARLY which was at 5530 and brought eth rpms down to 5043. It then shifted the 2-3 shift real quick, almost instantly, and also low in the rpm band, at 5244 rpms and dropped it to 5019 rpms in 3rd gear. It was a long long pull all the way through 3rd gear, and I crossed the finish line at 5980 rpms. I fully expected something like a 12.60 time on the timeslip, so I was quite surprised when it showed an 11.81 at 113.3 mph ! The low rpm shifts and that very quick 2-3 shift right after the 1-2 shift was interesting.


Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52443912900_987824fbca_c.jpg


Datalog:
look at the rpm trace. wow. way different and more tame than the past few years!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52448163059_a5612ac503_c.jpg

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfux4Xn5zsw



GoPro Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdvV7fHXbHI



Pass 2:
I kept the tune file and all the airbag, shock settings, and tire pressure 917.2 psi) the same. 5. second burnout. All I did on this pass differently, was launch the car from a higher footbrake rpm, but I still let the car shift itself. I wanted a good 60 foot comparison between launching off an idle (pass 1) and launching from a footbrake rpm. The car looks like it held up to 3211 rpms on the footbrake and after I launched it flashed to 4540 rpms. It did spin the rear tires just a bit, and you can hear it slip/grab on the video. It shifted itself at 5413 rpms and into 2nd gear at 4958 rpms. Sidenote- my TPS (green line) is not at 100% wide-open-throttle because during this point in the run, I noticed my windshield mounted rear view mirror must have vibrated itself loose recently and it began shaking all wildly so I was partially noticing that. Anyways, it shifted the 2-3 shift at 5195 and this dropped rpms to 5001 in 3rd gear. I crossed the finish line at 6050 rpms, mirror still shaking but not falling off.

Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52443469161_e489c8666c_c.jpg


Datalog:
TPS trace is wiggly as I was half watching the mirror about to vibrate itself off. whoops!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52447891271_70ac2e2c08_c.jpg


Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFFdVGlnaHk


GoPro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxfFpvTkSGg




Pass 3:
Shock and airbag settings are the same, but I brought the rear tires down to 16.4 psi. These next two passes I wanted to shift the car where I typically shift but launch as I did in pass 1 and 2 for some comparison data. I did a 7 second burnout, and launched the car from a dead idle, which was 947 rpms. It flashed the converter to 4851 and then I shifted 1-2 at 6449 and it dropped to 5147 9which is more of a drop than I've seen in recent weeks using this new converter?). I made the 2-3 shift at 6279 rpms, and it dropped to 5152. Crossed the finish line at 6006 rpms. The big drop-off in rpms between the shifts is all of a sudden similar to my results with the Edge Racing converter, so that confused me. The yank converters datalogs can be seen in previous posts I made during the recent month since installing it. Strange, but ok? IT launched good, pulled the wheels up, and I shifted real close to my target rpms, nothing outrageous happened, so it is good comparison data to pass #1 where I launched from an idle also. sixty foot times were close, but E.T. i went faster on pass 1 which had MUCH lower rpm shift points.

Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52443469151_788a7e765d_c.jpg


Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52448163069_d31b9ebd2e_c.jpg



Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jgbantIaVQ


GoPro video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poDYweKiyhg






Pass 4:
Rear tires were both at 16.6 so I left them there. Decent 6 second burnout. Brought the rpms up to 2564 and left off the footbrake. Flashed at 4856 rpms, and shifted 1-2 at 6450 which dropped it to 5233 in second gear. Shifted 2-3 at 6285 and dropped to 5331. Crossed the finish line at 6013 rpms.

Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52448793958_ecaaca2ab7_c.jpg

Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52448163064_aea496ff44_c.jpg



Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjSUdVNCnYc


GoPro Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X-69XNWX_M




I figured I had gotten some good info for comparing footbrake vs idle launches and me shifting vs trans shifting itself, and I might enough time to turn on the nitrous bottle and make two passes. Remembering that I had been overfueling the nitrous the other weekend, I did two things to compensate for it; in hindsight, I should have just done one. First, I left the fuel jet set for the 150 shot and put the nitrous jet for a 175 shot in the plate. I left the ClosedLoop Compensation fueling range to =/- 20% thinking this should cover it. The other thing I did, and this was because for a few months I have had a substantial PSI difference in what my two nitrous system pressure gauges are reading. The one mounted to the bottle never zeroes out even when system is disconnected, it is always reading 175-200 psi. The one in the a-pillar drops down to zero. The gauge at the bottle I have had probably 8 years now, so its seen its life, but I wasn't sure which one to trust. In recent months I have still trusted the bottle gauge, so when I have been making nitrous passes, I let it get to 1,000 psi and in-turn, the one on my a-pillar is reading in the 850 range. However, for Sunday's race day, I decided to try to rely on the a-pillar one and I heated the bottle up so that the A pillar gauge read 1,000 psi. Therefore, the gauge at the bottle was 1,200 psi, probably closer to 1,225. Again, experimental situation here.


Pass 5:
Tires at 16.6 psi all other settings the same, did a 6 second burnout. Launched from a 957 rpm idle and the nitrous was set to start coming on at 3300 rpms. It did, and it flashed the converter to 5976 according to the datalog. It spun the tire a very slight amount, I did a quick pedal of the throttle, Shifted 1-2 at 6353 rpms and this dropped it to 5639 in second gear. Should have started looking more intently at my AFR gauges, because AFR was dangerous, but thankfully the safe-guards I put into the tune-file caught it and turned off the system. I have the high side limit set to anything over 13.5 afr for more than .5 seconds, it kills the nitrous and runs all motor. But here is where I am still confused, as the rest of the lame and confused pass, the AFR still stayed pretty lean.. see the pink line, thats actual AFR and it should be very tight to the light-blue line (target AFR) that is below it. Not good. Got nervous after that run, which was unsuccessful in having a good timeslip whatsoever. Event eh 60 foot was off, it should be at least low 1.4s, yikes.

Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52443912905_128fb7fa0c_c.jpg


Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52448403423_ce8086da35_c.jpg


Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29Otnd0TRF8


GoPro video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kocRzpdDlPY




Pass 6. I knew lanes were closing and I had almost no time. I pulled up to my spot in the pits, gabbed the computer and a spark plug socket and went right into the lanes before they closed. Pulled two plugs and thankfully they looks ok. wow, whew. I didn't have time to change the nitrous jets, so I did what I thought was my only option, I opened up the ClosedLoop Cfuel compensation limits to 60%. and re-uploaded the file. In hindsight, now that I think of it... I could have simply lowered bottle pressure, and kept the jets and CL comp the same, but it did not dawn on me until the ride home. This time instead of leaving from an idle, I footbraked to 2209 rpms and it flashed at 4691. AFR numbers were getting wild, so I abandoned the run.


Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52442967612_1bdb877f33_c.jpg


Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52447368052_6b8675c768_c.jpg


Video: no need for video here, just a bad run.






Packed up the tools and headed home, this time it was NOT raining so that was a bonus.
Typing this up hopefully will help me get my brain into the data I obtained regarding if all-motor the car launches faster and runs a better ET if I footbrake, and/or if I let it shift itself vs me power-shifting. Wish the nitrous passes went better, but I was experimenting. I called Bruce's speed shop again and hopefully I can get a bottle filled November 3rd and ALSO buy a new in-line nitrous PSI gauge to mount at the bottle, as I do think the 8 year old gauge is reading incorrectly.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52448790520_5960079580_c.jpg





Any launch photos are of the car all-motor as the photographers were not taking photos during the late afternoon nitrous attempts/fails.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52443745259_058e234fa3_c.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52443987378_d8fcd87d52_c.jpg

[townsend]

great passes. i clicked off a 10.84 at 123 on a 150shot super super rich (like low 11.xx on the afr gauge) this past sunday at island. Love your car man

[IROCZman15]

thats awesome. a nice solid 10.80 feels great in the seat, doesn't it! Very cool. We could have a nice side by side run one day.

I'm hopeful to get tot eh track either this weekend or the following weekend. I would prefer to make some nitrous passes, but I only have like 3 pounds left in the bottle and Bruce has been waiting on his nitrous delivery for over a month, so there is still none to be had. Last I spoke with him on the phone, the tentative delivery date is November 3rd, so I will be calling him then to see if it arrived. Where doyou usually get nitrous filled at? I tried Spencers speed shop as well as a few others, but everyone is still waiting on suppliers to supply.
I'm itching to see if this car can go a nice low 10.5 or high 10.4x before the winter happens. You planning on heading back to the track this year ?

[townsend]

thats awesome. a nice solid 10.80 feels great in the seat, doesn't it! Very cool. We could have a nice side by side run one day.

I'm hopeful to get tot eh track either this weekend or the following weekend. I would prefer to make some nitrous passes, but I only have like 3 pounds left in the bottle and Bruce has been waiting on his nitrous delivery for over a month, so there is still none to be had. Last I spoke with him on the phone, the tentative delivery date is November 3rd, so I will be calling him then to see if it arrived. Where doyou usually get nitrous filled at? I tried Spencers speed shop as well as a few others, but everyone is still waiting on suppliers to supply.
I'm itching to see if this car can go a nice low 10.5 or high 10.4x before the winter happens. You planning on heading back to the track this year ?

yes, hoping to get there again either this sunday or next sunday. i cant get my bottles filled, they are out of date, but the previous owner has 2 bottles with 6lbs in em, so hoping to pick those up saturday and atleast get a few more passes in. i figured out that my 2005 vintage mallory 685 is making the car break up etc on motor and on spray, so disconnecting that and hoping this summit window switch shows up by saturday.

i think i can get down to 10.7x if i can get the car to not foul the plugs and break up at the top of 2nd and 3rd. i went a 1.46 60ft on that 10.84 pass, so i think it has the potential

I have a buddy in pa that fills bottles, but its an hour from me in warren county, so i imagine it would be a very very long ride for you.

I gotta start a thread about the formula

[IROCZman15]

nice! and thats a great sixty too, but it still has even more potential too. Definitely.
Yea, PA would be a bit far to travel. I called 4 places today and all of them said they no longer are involved with the nitrous filling business so that was tough to hear that up by me it will probably only ever be Bruce's Speed Shop and Spencer's. Dismal future for nitrous street cars here in New Jersey I guess!

[wretched73]

nice! and thats a great sixty too, but it still has even more potential too. Definitely.
Yea, PA would be a bit far to travel. I called 4 places today and all of them said they no longer are involved with the nitrous filling business so that was tough to hear that up by me it will probably only ever be Bruce's Speed Shop and Spencer's. Dismal future for nitrous street cars here in New Jersey I guess!

Sounds like this winter's project is a turbo??

[IROCZman15]

haha, nah, not for this car. I have always planned to keep it a nitrous car for a variety of reasons. I could go into detail if curious, but this car is going to stay real close to its current state/usage for a few years while I keep stockpiling money to hopefully eventually buy that 1975 Pro Street camaro that belonged to my uncle 3 decades ago....

So far no major winter upgrades but a lot of TLC items and beneficial improvements are on deck. Called Bruce's today and dang, kinda expected it, but they are delayed again until this upcoming Monday on the supplier making the delivery. So I still want to go to the track this weekend, but Sunday is the only day they are open. I could make some all-motor passes and hope to improve upon the PB of 11.67; and then I might have 3-4 pounds of nitrous left in the tank, so maybe I could try one nitrous run towards the end of the day. That's the gameplan at this point

[sweetbmxrider]

Get some medical grade nox from a welding supply

[townsend]

Get some medical grade nox from a welding supply

i just applied for my permit to purchase mother tanks. once i get that we will be ok, i got you dave

[IROCZman15]

Adam, yes definitiely.
Sometime last year I was in my local welding supply shop (county welding in Wharton, NJ) and I asked them about how I could go about getting nitrous through them. They hemmed-and-hawed about how its not something that they have done before and they were unsure of the feasibility. I let that topic sit there at that point, but recently I called Praxair (in Dover, which is now changed names to Linde Welding Gas supply) and asked them also; kinda expected and got the same answer.
Bruce does sell the medical grade nitrous and I even asked him what I would do if he ever went empty long-term. He said its possible to do what townsend is doing, but we didnt get into too much details. Last week when I was hunting for nitrous I called a bunch of NJ speed shops and followed some leads, and one guy was giving me all these reasons why its going to be such a hassle for me(a hobby racer) to get my own mother bottle. Stuff related to the government CDC, regulations, and audits, etc. Sounded wild, but I think he was laying it on a little thick. Anyways, I think that this winter I might do more solid research and find out how I can go about following Townsend's footsteps, and plan on getting a mother bottle to keep here at my house. I'll always keep this car a nitrous car, and my late uncles 75 camaro is also a nitrous car, so I will want to have a relaible source for bottle fills long-term.
If I try to plan on going to the dragstrip to do more competitive bracket-racing events, I will probably run the car more all-motor since it can be more consistent. But for the "glory" timeslip runs, nitrous will be used.

Townsend, as you go through the process, if you want to PM me or write about it on here, feel free. It would be good info to learn. I do have my nitrous permit to posses/purchase nitrous with the state, and I have had it for probably 8 years now, so i am hoping that smooths the process along. They I assume it would be convincing one my local welding gas supply stores to help me acquire the bottle.


oh, and bummer, rained out today. Car packed up, fueled up, food packed, and ready to race...but rain all day means the track is closed. I am keeping it all setup and ready so that when next Sunday comes, I am good to go.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52480559877_8cede5de54.jpg

[wretched73]

I've hear of too many accidents that happen when filling nitrous tanks. I do a lot of risky **** but there is a 0% chance I'd ever mess with filling my own tanks.

[townsend]

I've hear of too many accidents that happen when filling nitrous tanks. I do a lot of risky **** but there is a 0% chance I'd ever mess with filling my own tanks.

I work with refrigerant on a daily basis, i am an hvac tech. All nitrous is is a pressurized gas and has a gaseous state and a liquid state. Nitrous itself is very safe. the accidents you probably are seeing are people that are STUPID and using a torch to heat a mother bottle, filling bottles with no relief/gauge etc.

mother tank with a heater/hot water bath, 10lb bottle that was chilled in a freezer, and a scale. its that easy.

Adam, yes definitiely.
Sometime last year I was in my local welding supply shop (county welding in Wharton, NJ) and I asked them about how I could go about getting nitrous through them. They hemmed-and-hawed about how its not something that they have done before and they were unsure of the feasibility. I let that topic sit there at that point, but recently I called Praxair (in Dover, which is now changed names to Linde Welding Gas supply) and asked them also; kinda expected and got the same answer.
Bruce does sell the medical grade nitrous and I even asked him what I would do if he ever went empty long-term. He said its possible to do what townsend is doing, but we didnt get into too much details. Last week when I was hunting for nitrous I called a bunch of NJ speed shops and followed some leads, and one guy was giving me all these reasons why its going to be such a hassle for me(a hobby racer) to get my own mother bottle. Stuff related to the government CDC, regulations, and audits, etc. Sounded wild, but I think he was laying it on a little thick. Anyways, I think that this winter I might do more solid research and find out how I can go about following Townsend's footsteps, and plan on getting a mother bottle to keep here at my house. I'll always keep this car a nitrous car, and my late uncles 75 camaro is also a nitrous car, so I will want to have a relaible source for bottle fills long-term.
If I try to plan on going to the dragstrip to do more competitive bracket-racing events, I will probably run the car more all-motor since it can be more consistent. But for the "glory" timeslip runs, nitrous will be used.

Townsend, as you go through the process, if you want to PM me or write about it on here, feel free. It would be good info to learn. I do have my nitrous permit to posses/purchase nitrous with the state, and I have had it for probably 8 years now, so i am hoping that smooths the process along. They I assume it would be convincing one my local welding gas supply stores to help me acquire the bottle.


oh, and bummer, rained out today. Car packed up, fueled up, food packed, and ready to race...but rain all day means the track is closed. I am keeping it all setup and ready so that when next Sunday comes, I am good to go.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52480559877_8cede5de54.jpg

You have your permit already, thats all that is needed. these gas suppliers are a pain to get a bottle from even with the permit. From what i know, once you have the permit, that is it. You just have to keep receipts of your mother bottle purchases. What the other guy was referring to is if you actually sell sell nitrous, then you have to keep crazy records for 2 years etc.

i was in the same boat sunday, spent saturday getting the car ready again, then sunday morning rain in phillipsburg :(

but i did get a few street pulls on the bottle saturday night to make sure my tune was correctly pulling timing and window switch was working. she felt much better now that i took the mallory 685 off

[IROCZman15]

good point wretched, I've considered that aspect of things too. I'd find a way to make it as safe as possible. Topic I will research over the winter in detail. Definitely interested in the details as Townsend goes about it too though

[townsend]

rained out again ��

[thehazguy]

and next week looks cold with snow showers early

[IROCZman15]

yea, definitely another big bummer about another rain-out.
jeez
Tough to be hopeful for any upcoming weekends, but I am going to leave the car packed with the racing gear in it for one more weekend. If that gets canceled, I will just take the car out one day/night and beat on it as much as I can get away with, so I can go into the 4 month winter break feeling less dismal about future excitement with the car.

[townsend]

yea, definitely another big bummer about another rain-out.
jeez
Tough to be hopeful for any upcoming weekends, but I am going to leave the car packed with the racing gear in it for one more weekend. If that gets canceled, I will just take the car out one day/night and beat on it as much as I can get away with, so I can go into the 4 month winter break feeling less dismal about future excitement with the car.

2 sundays left and black friday

[V]

2 sundays left and black friday


I need to get there myself

[thehazguy]

Today's text from Island Dragway

SUBJ:Island Dragway
MSG: Due to continuing low overnight temps, we are now CLOSED for the season.

See you in 2023

[IROCZman15]

total bummer.

[townsend]

yep, so mad im taking my engine out lmao

[IROCZman15]

Haven't had much time to do anything with the car in quite a while. Hadn't even washed it since October. Drove it around occasionally. I have a small task list of things to do this winter on it.


- Holley RetroBright Headlights
- Check Balancer and pulleys
- Cut 1/4 coil off of rear coil springs
- Buy spare 10 pound nitrous tank
- Vaccum pump (electric)
- new side window weatherstripping
- Buy spare U-joints and spare rubber trans mount
- Poly grease everything


I saw that Holley had a big savings sale a few weeks ago, and it was my time to save $80 on the pair of the RetroBrights. For owning this car for almost 23 years, I have only ever had the glass sealed-beam oem style headlights on this car. Never did anything different, just didn't fit the look for me. With Holley now making the look-alike version of a 3,000 k LED and in plug and play I decided to go for it. I put these in earlier today and only did a test comparison during the daytime and on the bask-side of the garage door. Not sure if I will get out to drive this car at night since the winter weather is basically here.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52597212193_2847350a4e_c.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52597212188_9dc14f79dc_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52597119670_5966c19f59_c.jpg


side by side. new light vs oem style sealed beam that I removed.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52596688501_0c22df40d4_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52596951569_236cda75c1_c.jpg



Drivers side is the new holley light passenger side is oem style
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52597119680_886b9db045_c.jpg



Garage lights all off, and lights on the back-side of the garage door. drivers side is new light and passenger is oem style
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52597212218_85f2682df1_c.jpg

finished:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52597119685_4d7935be2b_c.jpg

[IROCZman15]

Got a little bit of progress done, but in the coming weeks I hope to get more accomplished. During January I decided to finally get some proper lighting in the garage, and I am glad I tackled that because the garage is now a much better place to work with proper lighting. (Added 10 4foot LED lights)

- Holley RetroBright Headlights (done)
- Check Balancer and pulleys
- Cut 1/4 coil off of rear coil springs (next)
- Buy spare 10 pound nitrous tank (done)
- Vaccum pump (electric) (not going to do)
- new side window weatherstripping (spring 2023)
- Buy spare U-joints and spare rubber trans mount (done)
- Poly grease everything

also now on the list:
- possibly buy new rear drag shocks
- look into a proper rear sway bar for drag racing
- new oval air filter (done)


Decided to buy a second 10 pound tank for nitrous to keep here as a spare because between september and january it was impossible to find anyone who had a supply of nitrous in stock. Finally, just a week ago, Bruce's speed shop got their supply in, so I immediately bought another bottle and then brought both bottles to his shop. Due to the whole supply difficulties, he increased his price from $7/pound to $10/pound. Oh well, At least I'm supplied for a little while. The new bottle came with a built in PSI gauge, which definitely would have been helpful to have during the September/October days at the dragstrip when I had uncertainty about the actual nitrous system pressure. Glad to have it now though, as I will see how all 3 nitrous pressure gauges read in relation to eachother.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52671404001_5e97cfb004_z.jpg


Bought some parts to keep here for spares, like a rubber transmission mount, a 1350 U-joint, U-joint straps, and installed a new Air-filter too.


Next, I am going to tackle the rear-end ride-height issue that bothered me ever since I installed the Air-Ride air-lift bags last year. Even with the bags at the lowest (5psi) the rear end fender eight sits up about 1/2 higher than without them in. This was something I immediately noticed when I put them in, and back then when I was troubleshooting it, I think it still has something to do with the red 'puck" that goes between the bag and the spring perch. So,t he only thing I can do, is take out my coil springs and take another little part of the coil off to drop the ride height. I don't run the rubber isolators anymore, I have been doing the heater hose method on my current springs which I cut back in 2008 and then again back in 2015 to get the ride height dialed in back then. Currently the drivers side rear fender sits at 28 3/8" and the passenger rear sits at 28 1/2". I'm looking to take these numbers down about 5/8" via the coil-cut process. Also will trim the bump-stops accordingly.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52671909013_8b73ac2491_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52671909018_ea1cbd53f7_z.jpg


No big deal,
but,
I figured while I am in there, maybe I should get a more drag-race oriented rear shock for the car. For spring and fall drag racing, I run the 90/10 Lakewoods up front, but with my Koni yellow rear shocks, and they are usually adjusted to the 3/5 settings while at the dragstrip. (For autocross I take out the front Lakewoods and put in the front koni yellow struts.) The rear shocks on these cars are a 5 minute swap per-side, so I wouldn't mind buying a set of drag-based rear shocks ONLY if I stand a chance of seeing a significant improvement in the launch/60 foot at the track. I don't want to waste money if the koni's are well suited enough. I am not looking for anything high dollar (Afco, viking, etc), but more like the Lakewood 50/50 shocks.
link: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lak-40301/make/chevrolet/model/camaro/year/1984



And While on the topic of a faster launch, I am wondering if it's time I get away from relying on the oem 1987 iroc-z rear sway bar, and maybe get something of an upgrade. I Take the the front sway bar completely off the car for drag racing and leave the oem rear on on. For autocross, I put the oem iroc one back on, and of course the rear one is already in place. Was thinking of a rear drag sway bar, and then perhaps a separate upgraded front/rear swaybar for autocross action. I do wish the UMI drag-bar was cheaper, because $450 is a lot of money and I might not need to be doing this yet. Maybe see how the shocks do and then decide about sway-bar later on.
drag bar - https://www.umiperformance.com/home/product/82-02-gm-f-body-rear-drag-sway-bar/
bigger street/autoX bar: https://www.umiperformance.com/home/product/1982-2002-gm-f-body-rear-sway-bar-22mm-tubular/

[Blackbirdws6]

Better lighting is a must....yes I'm biased. How do you like the retrobright lights? I'm confident they will perform much better than OEM but curious of your impressions.

[IROCZman15]

So far so good with the Retrobrights, however I haven't had the car out on roadways at night beyond the neighborhood in recent months but I notice a definite difference. I also just saw that holley is doing some blow-out sale of the version1 of these 4x6 headlights and the only difference is something with the wiring or connector. I didn't get much details, but these are the version2 and they are still for sale in the $180 range. The ones holley had up for their big sale work equally well, and they are selling for like $75 each.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52671843225_8a9d9e8483_z.jpg

[IROCZman15]

Decided to order the Lakewood rear shocks.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52685754939_cb49dcc80c_z.jpg



Yesterday I took out the rear coil springs and cut about 20% of a coil off the driver's side and about 40% of a coil on the passenger side.

Fender Height Before:
Drivers: 28 3/8"
Passenger: 28 1/2"

Fender Height After:
Drivers: 28"
Passenger : 28 1/8"

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52685897720_6a98cf4cf3_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52685472006_2a2b0256fa_z.jpg

pass rear height after:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52684982122_e034cc236b_z.jpg



Degreased some of the rear underside, polyurethane greased all the moving joints in the rear suspension, re-leveled the muffler, and put some DEI heat shield onto the oem heat shield between the muffler and the fuel tank to keep the fuel pump happy.* * Took the car out for a ride to shake out the suspension and all went well.* Roads are too cold and dirty this time of year to get any traction, but the car sure felt good.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52685994418_e215c6fe81_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52684958082_8cb310f37d_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52685494746_b49946fe37_z.jpg


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https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52685777299_0ec0365b1d_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52684982072_18ebc8eaa0_z.jpg

[townsend]

what torque converter are you running?

scratch that went back and found it.

[townsend]

Daaaaave!! Havent seen you at the track yet this year. Hoping to get some runs against you.

With the new cam and converter im consistent on 11.6x's on 28"s on motor

Cracked off a 10.34 at 126.6 this past friday night on a 150

[IROCZman15]

oh man, its been killing me not to have some time at the track yet. Ultra busy on all fronts, but I had actually hoped to get over tot he track on this past Friday night, but an exhausting day after an exhausting week made me decide to keep the car packed up and go instead on Sunday for TnT. Had literally everything packed and ready, but morning rainstorms caused them to rainout for the day. Car is STAYING PACKED until I get to go, so either this upcoming Friday night or Upcoming Sunday.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52843470032_767f26cfb5_z.jpg


I am damn jealous, if you are running that quick from just the 150 shot, I am definitely going to have to keep tweaking on mine. I am still hoping to get some real good timeslips witht his new Yank converter. My current best of 10.60 was with my old Edge Racing converter, so I am hoping to knock that down a few tenths.


We would definitely have a side-by-side pass just motor-to-motor, that would make for a good video. I think I went 11.67 at 117 on motor in September. I knew I could get the car quicker, but it Rained all of the last few weekends of October, and then the track closed for winter, so that was real buzzkill for me. Sadly, even through the track has been open for a few weekends this spring, I have been crushingly busy most of the days, till this upcoming weekend

[townsend]

oh man, its been killing me not to have some time at the track yet. Ultra busy on all fronts, but I had actually hoped to get over tot he track on this past Friday night, but an exhausting day after an exhausting week made me decide to keep the car packed up and go instead on Sunday for TnT. Had literally everything packed and ready, but morning rainstorms caused them to rainout for the day. Car is STAYING PACKED until I get to go, so either this upcoming Friday night or Upcoming Sunday.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52843470032_767f26cfb5_z.jpg


I am damn jealous, if you are running that quick from just the 150 shot, I am definitely going to have to keep tweaking on mine. I am still hoping to get some real good timeslips witht his new Yank converter. My current best of 10.60 was with my old Edge Racing converter, so I am hoping to knock that down a few tenths.


We would definitely have a side-by-side pass just motor-to-motor, that would make for a good video. I think I went 11.67 at 117 on motor in September. I knew I could get the car quicker, but it Rained all of the last few weekends of October, and then the track closed for winter, so that was real buzzkill for me. Sadly, even through the track has been open for a few weekends this spring, I have been crushingly busy most of the days, till this upcoming weekend

Sunday is not looking good, im watching the weather close for Friday night. Ive tried going between a 26" and a 28" tire and ran basically the same times 11.66-11.67 on motor. atleast shes a bracket car in that respect. my car is super heavy, around 3850. first pass friday i went 10.77 on the spray footbraking and shaking the tire, second pass was 10.51 with a slightly better 60ft, and the final pass was the 10.34 with a 1.420 60ft. all 3 passes mph at 126.6x

This is with the new cam and fti sst 9" 89-0 converter, which seems like it is still a hair too tight on motor.

[wretched73]

How is the nitrous supply looking?

[IROCZman15]

man! you are hammering that car down the track good then if the car is that heavy! Yea we gotta hope Friday night weather holds off, Sunday does still look like rain.

Not sure abotu the nitrous supply for the upcoming future. I have 8 pounds in this current bottle, and a full 10 pound bottle on the shelf int he garage. I have yet to find out if Bruce's wife will be able to still fill nitrous bottles at the store, after Bruce passed away a few weeks back. He would always hook it all up and fill it, so it is unlikely she would take on that role. R.I.P. Bruce !

[townsend]

so bruce's wife will not fill bottles, you have to drop your bottles off and then wait for a family friend to stop by on his way home and fill it for you. I ended up going to lethal deals in ivyland pa to get nitrous last saturday, larry the owner has tons of nitrous.

you also have the one guy ken something in old bridge who will fill, but has weird hours, 10-3 monday thru thursday as he travels to race.

air gas is clueless, but i am waiting for them to schedule a "site safety inspection" for me to get mother bottles from them, sadly air gas is the only commercial automotive nitrous supplier in our area it seems

[IROCZman15]

Hmm, that does make sense. I think that guy's name Is Todd, and I would see him helping around the storefront part of the shop from time to time. Maybe, maybe not.
-I might stop by the shop tomorrow on my way home from work just to say hello to his wife and condolences. Drove by a few times in recent weeks and had yet to see the lights back on yet.

how does all that stuff with air-gas work and the hurdles you have to go through.Not sure I know much about any of that at all. They come just once in the beginning, or unannounced site inspections for the future too?

I'm getting more disappointed every time I check the weather forecast for this weekend. I planned on working a half day at work so I could come home and then go to the dragstrip for TnT at night, but everything shows Rain Friday Saturday and Sunday. Gotta see how this shakes out.

[Joey D]

Reading this, i applied tonight to get my permit to sell nitrous. We will see what happens. The big question is, where do they fill them commercially? I have no clue haaa

[townsend]

Hmm, that does make sense. I think that guy's name Is Todd, and I would see him helping around the storefront part of the shop from time to time. Maybe, maybe not.
-I might stop by the shop tomorrow on my way home from work just to say hello to his wife and condolences. Drove by a few times in recent weeks and had yet to see the lights back on yet.

how does all that stuff with air-gas work and the hurdles you have to go through.Not sure I know much about any of that at all. They come just once in the beginning, or unannounced site inspections for the future too?

I'm getting more disappointed every time I check the weather forecast for this weekend. I planned on working a half day at work so I could come home and then go to the dragstrip for TnT at night, but everything shows Rain Friday Saturday and Sunday. Gotta see how this shakes out.

im currently loaded up and heading to lebanon valley for a rental since atco/island etc are closed for the weekend with the rain.

the site inspection is via airgas themselves just to make sure you have a set up to secure the bottles etc. they have been a legit pain in the ass though, claiming i need dea paperwork (you dont) and some other crap. i put it under my job because then with a "business" they are a little less of a pain.

[townsend]

Reading this, i applied tonight to get my permit to sell nitrous. We will see what happens. The big question is, where do they fill them commercially? I have no clue haaa

youre gonna need an account with airgas to buy and exchange/refill cylinders, airgas is the supplier of Nytrous-plus which is automotive nitrous. whatever you do do not call the paterson nj airgas, you will wanna choke him thru the phone.

[Joey D]

youre gonna need an account with airgas to buy and exchange/refill cylinders, airgas is the supplier of Nytrous-plus which is automotive nitrous. whatever you do do not call the paterson nj airgas, you will wanna choke him thru the phone.

Haaa thank you cause i was gona. They r supplier listed on my permit. Created account with them etc. thanks.

[IROCZman15]

In full hopes that the rain would hold off for Friday night (last night) I bounced home from work early and would have gone to Island... did not think about Lebanon valley; in fact I have never even been there yet. called Island and was understanding that they would be rained out Friday night and Saturday. Sunday was left up in the air still, but it currently looks like rain also. Damn.

On my way home I stopped by Bruce's speed shop to offer condolences and she did mention that the nitrous bottles could still get filled, but as townsend said, bottles would have to be left for a day or two until someone could come fil them. No biggie.

But then my good buddy Joe comes along and somehow, overnight, successfully applies to be come a nitrous seller. Wild!

I also stopped at a place in Rockaway/Dover that does interior work just to ask their advice about what brand of weather-stripping they would recommend for my "roof rail" weather-stripping. I have heard mixed reviews on some of the normal weather-stripping companies, and I ONLY need the roof -rail weather-stripping. Some people on Thirdgen.org have had luck with Fairchild, some with Steel, some with SoffSeal. Since the car is a hard-top its a real simple piece of weather-stripping, but sometimes either its too stiff and people have to SLAM their doors or there is a gap in between the window and weather-stripping. I duno, none of the product brands has seemed superior from what I have read online. Anyways, the guy at the upholstery shop was a jerk and basically didn't have the time of day to answer my 3 questions. He told me to go online and just pick one. Glad I got help from a guy who has been in the business for over 30 years as he told me. Whatever.


https://www.yearone.com/Product/1982-02-firebird/w779
or
https://www.steelerubber.com/hardtop-roof-rail-weatherstrip-82-0054-68
or
https://www.camarocentral.com/1982_1992_Camaro_Roofrail_Rubber_Weatherstripping_ p/wea-11.htm
or
?



Next weekend at island is:
Friday Day: Open track rental
Friday Night: closed, no racing because of setup for swap meet
Saturday: Swap Meet
Sunday: Spring season Nostalgia Event


I am still looking for a day to do shakedown passes on the car, preferably before trying to go some rounds in any type of event. I am toying around with the idea of jumping into that Friday Daytime track-rental for $200 if I am able to get off from work that day. I figure I could really get a whole lot of passes on the car and maybe really nit-pick some stuff with it. I am still curious about my nitrous jetting numbers, as sometimes my ECU has to add/subtract a significant amount of CLcomp fuel on the bottle (its inconsistent). So I'd like to figure that out. All motor, the car is pretty much where I think it will be. I'm still of the opinion that there is more to be figured out to get a faster nitrous pass. With a 11.67 all motor pass, I should be well past a 10.60 using the 175 jets, but its just not happened yet. Tough to sort that stuff out when you only get 2or3 runs in some days at a TnT.

I only really have the month of May to get after it at the dragstrip, in June the car will be super cleaned and detailed and more focus on paint-body because it will be at the Carlisle 3rd gen display in the building, so I probably won't do any racing in June. July involves switching the car over to autocross mode, and doing the UMI Autocross event.

[townsend]

In full hopes that the rain would hold off for Friday night (last night) I bounced home from work early and would have gone to Island... did not think about Lebanon valley; in fact I have never even been there yet. called Island and was understanding that they would be rained out Friday night and Saturday. Sunday was left up in the air still, but it currently looks like rain also. Damn.

On my way home I stopped by Bruce's speed shop to offer condolences and she did mention that the nitrous bottles could still get filled, but as townsend said, bottles would have to be left for a day or two until someone could come fil them. No biggie.

But then my good buddy Joe comes along and somehow, overnight, successfully applies to be come a nitrous seller. Wild!

I also stopped at a place in Rockaway/Dover that does interior work just to ask their advice about what brand of weather-stripping they would recommend for my "roof rail" weather-stripping. I have heard mixed reviews on some of the normal weather-stripping companies, and I ONLY need the roof -rail weather-stripping. Some people on Thirdgen.org have had luck with Fairchild, some with Steel, some with SoffSeal. Since the car is a hard-top its a real simple piece of weather-stripping, but sometimes either its too stiff and people have to SLAM their doors or there is a gap in between the window and weather-stripping. I duno, none of the product brands has seemed superior from what I have read online. Anyways, the guy at the upholstery shop was a jerk and basically didn't have the time of day to answer my 3 questions. He told me to go online and just pick one. Glad I got help from a guy who has been in the business for over 30 years as he told me. Whatever.


https://www.yearone.com/Product/1982-02-firebird/w779
or
https://www.steelerubber.com/hardtop-roof-rail-weatherstrip-82-0054-68
or
https://www.camarocentral.com/1982_1992_Camaro_Roofrail_Rubber_Weatherstripping_ p/wea-11.htm
or
?



Next weekend at island is:
Friday Day: Open track rental
Friday Night: closed, no racing because of setup for swap meet
Saturday: Swap Meet
Sunday: Spring season Nostalgia Event


I am still looking for a day to do shakedown passes on the car, preferably before trying to go some rounds in any type of event. I am toying around with the idea of jumping into that Friday Daytime track-rental for $200 if I am able to get off from work that day. I figure I could really get a whole lot of passes on the car and maybe really nit-pick some stuff with it. I am still curious about my nitrous jetting numbers, as sometimes my ECU has to add/subtract a significant amount of CLcomp fuel on the bottle (its inconsistent). So I'd like to figure that out. All motor, the car is pretty much where I think it will be. I'm still of the opinion that there is more to be figured out to get a faster nitrous pass. With a 11.67 all motor pass, I should be well past a 10.60 using the 175 jets, but its just not happened yet. Tough to sort that stuff out when you only get 2or3 runs in some days at a TnT.

I only really have the month of May to get after it at the dragstrip, in June the car will be super cleaned and detailed and more focus on paint-body because it will be at the Carlisle 3rd gen display in the building, so I probably won't do any racing in June. July involves switching the car over to autocross mode, and doing the UMI Autocross event.

im out this week for the friday rental, had a health scare and need to make up the days at work, plus redoing my nitrous system a little bit, think i am having a fuel solenoid issue

[IROCZman15]

damn, sorry to hear about your health scare bud, hope all is well at this point now. I did get out to the track last Friday for that Track rental. It was ok, Ill go into details below, but I still have some datalogging issues and nitrous issues to sort out here myself.


Its almost 11 days later and I am finally getting a chance to type this up. In the future, I really may not have the time to type up such detailed event re-caps, but I will try because the main reason I do it, is so that if I got something going awry or I can find out any mistakes that need correcting.. hopefully someone can point it out and I can get this car dialed in. The biggest thing preventing me form these updates and any car work is the 11 month old baby and some serious health issues he has been dealing with for the past 7 months of his life. Tough times and hardly any free time to get things accomplished, but I will keep at it. Actually, I am only able to type this all up today since I am home from work to take care of the little fella.


Anyways, since multiple weekends prior to the May 5th trace rental had fully rained out, I took a day off of work and jumped into the rental for $200. It was with a group of North Jersey streetcars, mostly new mustangs, mopars, corvettes, and mostly street cars with radials. there was a tesla or two and some e-Audi thing too. It had rained in the early morning, so the track started an hour late and we lost that hour. (throughout the day it rained several more times and the track even closed early because of the rain...I was next in the line for the burnout box when they called the track closed!). This was the first time I have run the car with the new Lakewood 50/50 drag shocks in the rear, so I was interested to see how it would go. The DA for the day was under 1000, minimal wind, etc. I kept the Front tires the same all day, and the rear tires were between 16.6psi and 17.2 psi all day. The passes where I hot-lapped the car the tires were at the 17.2 psi. The rear air bags were at 6 psi on the drivers side and 16 psi on the passenger side.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894759775_9423ee4cd1.jpg







Pass 1:

All motor shakedown pass after winter mods and adjustments. Since I expected to get a lot of dragstrip passes during the day, I decided to do one with the air filter/air cleaner assembly on, just out of curiosity. It spun a little out of teh hole, but somehow I got a good reaction time for once. launched at 1760 rpms, converter flashed at 4786 rpms. Shifted 1-2 at 6241 rpms, shifted 2-3 at 5851 rpms (early) and crossed the line around 6002 rpms.


Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894781615_6b3ac11079.jpg



Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894568909_b5020f0024.jpg



Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbgCrdvT-Wg





Pass 2:
used the same tune file, just took the air filter assembly off. Did my very best to launch and shift exactly as I did on the pass before. launched at 1731 rpms, converter flashed at 4746 rpms. Shifted 1-2 at 6033 rpms, shifted 2-3 at 5870 rpms and crossed the line at 6133 rpms. picked up about 1 mph (and 2tenths)

--- Then it rained and track was stopped for almost 2 hours


Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894389101_6ddc01bcba.jpg




Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52893833467_6d0b751233.jpg




Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZDh5CFp2_c








Pass 3:
they dried the track, and I wanted to get a better all motor timeslip that was more in the 11.7 and 11.6 range like usual. Launch hooked better but still a little slip. However, here comes the garbled nonsense datalog gremlins back to haunt me from last year. The datalog is useless and I still don't know why it does this intermittently.



Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894389091_c2ecee874d.jpg



Datalog:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894792945_09d8eb386f.jpg

datalog again:
its only recording/saving data points every half second instead of every micro-second. wth!?!
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894568904_bfd61136d7.jpg







Pass 4:
My personal best all-motor timeslip was a 11.66 and since I had jsut gone 11.670, I said, lets see if we can get a new pb. I added a few drops of race-gas concentrate to the fuel tank and added 1 degree of timing, so my overall timing was 35 deg instead of 35. This time the datalog worked! Launched at 1186 rpms and got a nice 1.49 sixty foot (all motor!) Converter flashed at 4797 rpms. I shifted 1-2 at 6489 rpms and shifted 2-3 at 6135 rpms. Across the finish line at 6032 rpms. The new personal best all motor is now this timeslip, but I think on a good day I can hopefully knock down a 11.59. The mph picked up almost 3 mph from previous pass, so that was awesome


Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894846223_fb21790912.jpg

Datalog:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894400746_f4633b994c.jpg







Pass 5:

People were already seeing the rain clouds move in again, so I decided to get a nitrous run in prior to any shut-downs. I had the 150 jets in and knew the starting line was tricky today so I chose to do a progressive ramped in 150 shot. it did spin a bit on the launch, but ran well. It did the same usual numbers for the progressive 150 shots as last year; but again. the datalog failed. Getting real annoyed about that.

Timeslip:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894557829_a8b49b0100_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oA6z4H)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oA7rdZ) by David Martin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/iroczman15/), on Flickr

Datalog fail:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52893833462_76c7ccd614_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oA3HTU)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2oA3HTU) by David Martin (https://www.flickr.com/photos/iroczman15/), on Flickr



Rain arrived but didn't last too long, after track was dry we got back in the lanes.


Pass 6:

Wanted to see if a non-progressive nitrous shot would work, but it didnt. It actually had a different problem, and that is that the nitrous system turned itself off. I hadn't seen any problematic (afr) numbers on the dashboard display during the first 330 of the pass, but something made the system shut off. I ran it out all motor though. Went to check the datalog, and boom, of course, datalog error again. So thats a double problem. I checked spark plugs, and while they were turning tan in color from the race-gas additive, the timing mar on the strap seemed good and no other signs of combustion problems.



Timeslip:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894781620_d720793450_z.jpg


Datalog:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894792950_4968e5d34a_z.jpg



Video:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUzf2aez-08


spark plug:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894824138_1785d127a4_z.jpg





pass 7:

I modified the existing tune file to open up the "nitrous system safety parameters" a bit in case the safety shut-off numbers were too tight. otherwise, no change. Spun on the launch (there really was no rubber "grove" that day), nitrous clicked off soon afterwards, and I ran the rest of the pass on motor just watching AFR numbers as close as I can on the digital dashboard readouts. Nothing alarming. Datalog failed again




Timeslip:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894557834_2759548e73_z.jpg




Failed Datalog:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894400751_1745f094a7_z.jpg


Video:
(can hear nitrous go off with engine noise change)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am5_hiDFgU4





Pass 8:

Incredibly frustrated a\nd confused, we saw rain coming in again so I decided to send it and did a quick nitrous jet change to a 175 shot and a corresponding known-good tune file (used last spring to go 10.60). As expected, spun the launch, nitrous clicked off, and no useful datalog.

Timeslip:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894557844_1f5d767850_z.jpg



Datalog:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894400741_fb084a1b82_z.jpg

Video:




......

I then decided to just make another all-motor pass and jumped into the lanes.
Rolled to the area just before the burnout box, rain arrived, track shut down for the day. Packed up, in the rain, chatted with some people for a bit, and drove home in the rain.






I mean, jeez, I gotta figure out these two issues, and I have had a thread on the HolleyEFI web-forums regarding the datalog issue for at least a year now. Limited time and limited brainpower. I was kinda bummed that the starting line was not good/consistent throughout the day. Street treaded street tires and minimal prep, but sometimes I got it to stick. I did stay in the right hand lane the whole day because it had more cars with radials and slicks going down it. Joey D came by for a bit and took some video/photos. The car is popping a sure small wheelie on the all-motor launches when it hooked ( Pass 3 which was 1.52 sixty and Pass 4 which was 1.49 sixty foot). So, thats good, and I probably am close with the rear setup working. Maybe a slight tire psi adjustment or air bag adjustment, but not much.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894388606_c78d51fab2_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894846028_197bab6d26_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52894846318_26dfcc175e_z.jpg

[Blackbirdws6]

Nice to see you back out there making passes. Hope your little one gets better soon.

Regarding the datalog issues, any response from Holley directly on this? Track prep wasn't your friend and sounds like another day with some more serious cars on a proper tire will help.

[townsend]

nice, it sucks working thru problems but reaching the end goal is worth it. i got my nitrous issue figured out, damn summit window switch decided it was failing and went nuts. still have to upload that vid.

looks like youre still a hair low on tire pressure, wadding the radial up a lot its probably unloading about 10ft out (atleast thats the problem im having and your pic the tire looks similiar).

if the weather holds ill be there sunday with a few fresh bottles and fresh plugs.

[Joey D]

nice, it sucks working thru problems but reaching the end goal is worth it. i got my nitrous issue figured out, damn summit window switch decided it was failing and went nuts. still have to upload that vid.

looks like youre still a hair low on tire pressure, wadding the radial up a lot its probably unloading about 10ft out (atleast thats the problem im having and your pic the tire looks similiar).

if the weather holds ill be there sunday with a few fresh bottles and fresh plugs.

I took the pic. His tire was def wrinkling a lot. 16psi i believe. Needs like 18-22? Or will it spin too much? I thnk the car really needs a 200shot progressive and just go

[townsend]

I took the pic. His tire was def wrinkling a lot. 16psi i believe. Needs like 18-22? Or will it spin too much? I thnk the car really needs a 200shot progressive and just go

i am having a similiar issue and everyone is telling me to be around 18-19psi on the radial and get the shocks set right so it separates and hooks. what happens is a radial wads up (like in the pic) then suddenly unloads and snaps back into shape, when that happens the tire spins and there goes your 60ft.

its a balancing act of enough pressure, enough anti squat, and shocks that can actually slow the separation down (stiff rebound) and keep it down too (compression). my car sits close to factory height and i had the lca in the bottom hole on the relocation brackets, this is causing too much antisquat (over 150%) with the short torque arm. i have since raised the lca up 1 hole and changed the shock adjustments. will find out sunday if i went the right way.

at lebanon valley i went as low as 15psi and the 60ft was getting worse, went back up to 18psi and got a 1.470 60ft with a 150shot coming on right away. i do not have a progressive.

[IROCZman15]

I hope to get a response back to your replies in the net day or two, but I did experiment with different tire pressures a bit last year, I can go through my old posts and logbook and see what some of the best 60 foots were and then look and see what my tire pressure was on that run. Will get back to you guys on all that.

Just wanted to post a few of the videos that Joey D took from that day, gives a better view of the launch and you can hear the tire spin/shutter in some of the videos.


Pass 2:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/e1hxDkKwIo0

Pass 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfOD40oSNTo


Pass 4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs25Sjj9H68


Pass 5:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CKzTCDZdiE



much thanks to Joe for grabbing some video footage.

[LTb1ow]

If you are on Facebook, "holley EFI discussion" is a great source of info and help for solid guys in the tuning world.

[townsend]

slow down the front extension and go up a little in tire pressure. looks like similiar issue to mine, front extends tops out quick and the tire wads then unloads

[IROCZman15]

Any and all advice is appreciated, thanks guys!


Brian:
yea, I had a bunch of email exchanges with sending files back and forth to Holley for their tech guys to look at, this was sometime last year, but they were stumped. We tried lots of things, but the one thing I was hesitant to try was a full software update on the ECU and the computer itself. I've been always hesitant to do this, because I continually come across threads on the Holley sniper forum where people will do a software update and then the ECU gets locked up, or something goes awry. However, now that I am truly out of options, I might end up doing it.
Matt: yea, maybe I could find a way to check into that facebook page. but I don't have facebook account so that complicates it. Possibly could try using my wife's facebook, but she may not be too thrilled about it! I've been surprised that the EFI guru's on the holley forum still have never come across this either. The issues began in September of 2021 and are totally intermittent and random.
the thread: https://forums.holley.com/forum/holley-efi/sniper-efi/37946-very-unusual-datalogs-on-some-nitrous-dragstrip-passes

Townsend:
Its good to see the videos Joe took to see that the tire is indeed too low. I always keep log books from each track day, and I refer back to them for stuff like tire pressure and air-bag settings. Going back to my book for tire pressure I see that I had some of my best 60foot launches with the tire right around 17, often lower:
1.54 sixty with a 17.0 psi rear tire (all motor) April 15, 2022 Pass 3
1.44 sixty with a 17.0 psi tire (nitrous launch) May 1, 2022 Pass 4
1.49 sixty with a 17.6 psi rear tire (all motor) September 25, 2022 Pass 2
1.46 sixty with a 17.4 psi rear tire (nitrous launch) September 25, 2022 Pass 3
1.42 sixty with a 17.4 psi rear tire (nitrous launch) October 9, 2022 Pass 1
1.43 sixty with a 16.0 psi rear tire (nitrous launch) October 9, 2022 Pass 3
1.52 sixty with a 17.2 psi rear tire (all motor) October 16, 2022 Pass 1
1.51 sixty with a 16.4 psi rear tire (all motor) October 16, 2022 Pass 3
1.54 sixty with a 16.6 psi rear tire (all motor) October 16, 2022 Pass 4
1.52 sixty with a 16.6 psi tire (all motor) May 5, 2023 Pass 3
1.49 sixty with a 16.8 or 17? tire (all motor) may 5, 2023 Pass 4
1.48 sixty with a 16.8 psi rear tire (nitrous) May 5, 2023 Pass 6



But I agree, I am going to keep more air in the rear tire. I think I feel exactly what you are describing, how the tire unloads a little bit as it launches. You can hear it in some of the videos. Thanks for pointing that out !
Back a while ago I did have the rear tires higher in psi, (also I thinik I ran higher psi on the same version of these tires but a 26" tall tire on a 16" wheel). The converter was different then, and I also didn't have the Lakewood front/rear drag shocks. These lakewoods are a 90/10 strut up front (not adjustable) and a 50/50 rear shock (not adjustable). My Koni struts and shocks are adjustable, but more for handling and autocross. So My adjustments can come from tire pressure and air bag pressure. LCA angle and torque arm are dialed in and on the proper location holes.


Hoping to resolve a few issues in the coming week and possibly get out to the track next friday night (might be away the remainder of the memorial day weekend).

[townsend]

Any and all advice is appreciated, thanks guys!


Brian:
yea, I had a bunch of email exchanges with sending files back and forth to Holley for their tech guys to look at, this was sometime last year, but they were stumped. We tried lots of things, but the one thing I was hesitant to try was a full software update on the ECU and the computer itself. I've been always hesitant to do this, because I continually come across threads on the Holley sniper forum where people will do a software update and then the ECU gets locked up, or something goes awry. However, now that I am truly out of options, I might end up doing it.
Matt: yea, maybe I could find a way to check into that facebook page. but I don't have facebook account so that complicates it. Possibly could try using my wife's facebook, but she may not be too thrilled about it! I've been surprised that the EFI guru's on the holley forum still have never come across this either. The issues began in September of 2021 and are totally intermittent and random.
the thread: https://forums.holley.com/forum/holley-efi/sniper-efi/37946-very-unusual-datalogs-on-some-nitrous-dragstrip-passes

Townsend:
Its good to see the videos Joe took to see that the tire is indeed too low. I always keep log books from each track day, and I refer back to them for stuff like tire pressure and air-bag settings. Going back to my book for tire pressure I see that I had some of my best 60foot launches with the tire right around 17, often lower:
1.54 sixty with a 17.0 psi rear tire (all motor) April 15, 2022 Pass 3
1.44 sixty with a 17.0 psi tire (nitrous launch) May 1, 2022 Pass 4
1.49 sixty with a 17.6 psi rear tire (all motor) September 25, 2022 Pass 2
1.46 sixty with a 17.4 psi rear tire (nitrous launch) September 25, 2022 Pass 3
1.42 sixty with a 17.4 psi rear tire (nitrous launch) October 9, 2022 Pass 1
1.43 sixty with a 16.0 psi rear tire (nitrous launch) October 9, 2022 Pass 3
1.52 sixty with a 17.2 psi rear tire (all motor) October 16, 2022 Pass 1
1.51 sixty with a 16.4 psi rear tire (all motor) October 16, 2022 Pass 3
1.54 sixty with a 16.6 psi rear tire (all motor) October 16, 2022 Pass 4
1.52 sixty with a 16.6 psi tire (all motor) May 5, 2023 Pass 3
1.49 sixty with a 16.8 or 17? tire (all motor) may 5, 2023 Pass 4
1.48 sixty with a 16.8 psi rear tire (nitrous) May 5, 2023 Pass 6



But I agree, I am going to keep more air in the rear tire. I think I feel exactly what you are describing, how the tire unloads a little bit as it launches. You can hear it in some of the videos. Thanks for pointing that out !
Back a while ago I did have the rear tires higher in psi, (also I thinik I ran higher psi on the same version of these tires but a 26" tall tire on a 16" wheel). The converter was different then, and I also didn't have the Lakewood front/rear drag shocks. These lakewoods are a 90/10 strut up front (not adjustable) and a 50/50 rear shock (not adjustable). My Koni struts and shocks are adjustable, but more for handling and autocross. So My adjustments can come from tire pressure and air bag pressure. LCA angle and torque arm are dialed in and on the proper location holes.


Hoping to resolve a few issues in the coming week and possibly get out to the track next friday night (might be away the remainder of the memorial day weekend).

i would honestly put your koni's back on, they will be stiff enough to slow down alot of what is going on full soft, i went 1.47 with 0 suspension tuning on koni yellows/umi lowering springs.

youre gonna be fighting the shocks now. not ideal. the lakewood 90/10-50/50 combo works great on leaf spring stuff etc, but not that efficient trying to go fast on a modern radial

they changed the no time grudge race to tomorrow and i talked to melissa, she said i could jump in as test and tune but ill probably only get 3 runs. deciding if i should try it anyway because atleast since they have a race the prep should be better than a friday night.

i may try to go friday too

[IROCZman15]

Woah, that would be interesting, but I'd be willing to do it after I get another go at the track with these Lakewoods. The Konis did have that adjustability but I had heard some good success stories with the 50/50s on Thirdgen.org. I will give it a shot one day with the Konis again, probably in August after I am done playing around on the July autocross events, that way the konis will already be on the car.

I am thinking maybe I can get there next Friday night. Possibly.

[townsend]

Woah, that would be interesting, but I'd be willing to do it after I get another go at the track with these Lakewoods. The Konis did have that adjustability but I had heard some good success stories with the 50/50s on Thirdgen.org. I will give it a shot one day with the Konis again, probably in August after I am done playing around on the July autocross events, that way the konis will already be on the car.

I am thinking maybe I can get there next Friday night. Possibly.

I may go friday just to watch, got my 9 second pass today. 9.90 with a 1.26 60ft. finally got it to leave correctly. stiffening my shocks and changing the lca angle to 2 degrees helped

[IROCZman15]

You got a 9.90 ! Thats killer. I am definitely going to have to pick your brain on some more of this stuff. What size nitrous hit was it 200? I've always seen the 200 shot as the limit for my car/systems/solenoids, but I would be lucky to go 10.40 with it. 9.90 at 131 is awesome, but that 1.26 sixty foot is quick! nice job man. I'm still tentative about this Friday, much to do beforehand plus possibly family duties, but I am going to push as hard as I can to get packed and try to make it.

[townsend]

You got a 9.90 ! Thats killer. I am definitely going to have to pick your brain on some more of this stuff. What size nitrous hit was it 200? I've always seen the 200 shot as the limit for my car/systems/solenoids, but I would be lucky to go 10.40 with it. 9.90 at 131 is awesome, but that 1.26 sixty foot is quick! nice job man. I'm still tentative about this Friday, much to do beforehand plus possibly family duties, but I am going to push as hard as I can to get packed and try to make it.

i think you will be surprised that you will probably go faster on a 200 than you think. for reference my cars fastest motor hit was 11.67 at 114. with the suspension adjustments off the trailer on a 150shot went 10.34 with a 1.31 60ft. 200shot and got a 9.93 and a 9.90

my window switch was acting up, so i removed it. nitrous is just on a wot switch now. i only have a single nozzle before the throttle body (stock lt1 throttle body). nothing special. my solenoids are 15 year old nitrous outlet max 250hp solenoids. only thing i got going for me is i have a 6an nitrous feed line from bottle to solenoid.

im gonna try to go friday too, thinking of driving the car there and home instead of trailering it, prove its a street car. ive driven it much further without issue so far. probably just jet it back to 150 since its a friday night.

[IROCZman15]

Yea, I would like to be hopeful about that too. Oddly, I have never seemed to get the timeslips that I feel a 100 shot or a 150 shot should achieve. I don't know if its my self-created combination of jets, or the use of a plate instead of a port system, but I had imagined a few tenths faster from each corresponding nitrous shot up-jet. I do hope to figure it out, could really use a dyno session to accomplish this I think. Too much variables with street/track. Your setup is fairly straightforward too though, single nozzle before the throttle blades, and I like simple.. but yours seems to really work well with waking that car up from a mid 11.67 to a 9.90 on a 200 shot. Numbers like that give me hope of maybe grabbing a 10.30 one day.

I am still trying to sort out what our weekend gameplan is for the family. I am full-tilt trying to work in a TnT session, but only if we don't go out to PA for the weekend to visit my wifes family. I am also considering the option of going on Sunday for TnT but not counting out tomorrow night Tnt. I hope to know by mid-day tomorrow and I will try to update ya on here.

[townsend]

i think we can get it figured out. lookin like im going to go sunday.

What plate and jetting are you going off of? most efi plates a .062 jet is 150hp give or take. i followed nitrous outlets jetting chart for a single nozzle/plate and got it close, but ended up having to go up 2 fuel jet sizes from their recommended for both the 150 and 200 shot.

[IROCZman15]

I should be going today. Wasn’t able to get to sort out a few things are other teh firmware/software but did take care of some other stuff.

I’ve always been curious about my nitrous jetting. I made my own jet chart as I couldn’t find a jet chart for the fuel pressure I have at the system which is 65 psi. I also used that Robbie the robot calculator to guide me but that’s just internet math, real life use seems to be different. I really
Need to get the nitrous jet/tune setup on a dyno and I know that, so that will be a goal for 2023. According to your jet numbers and my “tame” jet chart, I think my
Numbers for a 150 shot put it closer to a 120
Shot and my numbers for a 175 shot are more like a 150
Shot . I have the .062 nitrous jet and .032 fuel jet in there now. Nitrous bottle pressure will be at 950 today and fuel
Pressure is 65 psi at the gauge where the fuel
System T’s off . Without useable datalogs, all
I have is visually seeing the afr numbers on the gauges as I go down the track. Might setup the GoPro to record the gauges? Gotta check spark plugs of course too. Will use a splash of the race gas concentrate in the can.



http://robietherobot.com/nitrousjetcalculator.htm


https://flic.kr/p/2oDprs4

[IROCZman15]

Bad day today on many levels. Lots of stuff I can’t figure out


Problems with:
Laptop
Firmware
Software
Data logging
No rpm signal/trace at all on all data-logs
Rpm needle bouncing all over the place at idle
Backfiring and popping under load
Unknown issues still with nitrous


Not sure I’ll be able to find time to dig into it. Probably not able to to drive the car to Carlisle or to UMI autocross with it acting this way

[townsend]

Bad day today on many levels. Lots of stuff I can’t figure out


Problems with:
Laptop
Firmware
Software
Data logging
No rpm signal/trace at all on all data-logs
Rpm needle bouncing all over the place at idle
Backfiring and popping under load
Unknown issues still with nitrous


Not sure I’ll be able to find time to dig into it. Probably not able to to drive the car to Carlisle or to UMI autocross with it acting this way

sounds like an issue with the holley getting signal. dont feel bad, i didnt make it either, have maintenance stuff to do to the car as i have just been beating on it lately. also got the other car running and having 24x conversion issues

[V]

I want to get to a Friday night TnT soon but I need to get a helmet and jacket first.

[townsend]

that damn hyperspark wiring

[IROCZman15]

This is a long overdue update post, but I did get to teh track back on may 28. I did some stuff prior and thought I had all the gremlins worked out. Unknown to me, is that the misfire likes to come around after the car has been driven and warmed up...so that caused havoc at the track. I no longer have any of the dashcam videos, but three of the 5 runs i got were garbage due to the misfire coming about. And I spent a good amount of time in teh pits checking over wiring, plugs, swapping to known good tunes etc, but in the end, I only had two full passes (#1 and #3). Pass 3 got me a great mph in the 8th mile at 95.49 mph and the 1/4 mile was 118.69 mph which is a p.b., and I didnt feel the misfire that time, but in actuality, it was partially there.

( this video below is the only track video and it was pass 5)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJh_3mlNC_M


timeslips:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52970850235_081a11db12_z.jpg





but:
here is the wild stuff the tachometer on BOTH the oem dashboard gauge and the digital holley gauge was going. The engine was not changing rpm that quick, but the computer was seeing the values and compensating afterwards with big swings in the timing, IAC, and whatnot. However, the other gauges and values on both dashboards were clear and steady (free from the spike) so I kept ruling out RMI and electrical interference.


videos:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CnW9JtzeRs0


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/czgIdSJL2uU






Drove the car home gently and took a few days to dig into it. Started at the battery in the back and dug deep into the wiring all the way up through the body, under the console, into the engine bay, etc. Checked timing with a timing light, static timing tests, installed ferrite beads on some wires, moved plug wires, even unclipped connectors and checked a bunch of the tiny pins. Ran a vacuum test on the engine and almost pulled some valve covers off too, but I had been chatting with Scott over at EFI systemsPro and he mentioned that it seems the ecu is getting a bad signal from the distributor, and that lead me to start checking the wiring there. Thats when i saw it: at some point in time (probably when I had the intake manifold off last year) I must have removed some of the plastic loom that usually covers all of my wiring, from teh 3-wires that go into the underside of the hyperspark distributor. The unprotected wires were then left to sit alongside the sharp edge of the distributor hold-down clamp, and that caused them to get sliced open over time. Whew! I got the wires sealed, shrink wrapped, secured and with plastic loom back on it. Car fired right up and ran smoooooooooooth. Test drive went well also. whew.






Datalog screenshots from Pass 2:
(see the bright red, thats rpm, and it looks noisy, but spikes and dips) not in a cycle or rhythym either, just intermittent, this is what baffled my brain) this log is idling in the stagin area, burnout, and then the 1/4 mile pass which let off after a bit)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52970613524_cd63c48355_z.jpg


Closeup of the spikes during idle:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52970850255_8461d90ab5_z.jpg


closeup of the rpm spikes during pass 2:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52970472741_49de4f1d0a_z.jpg


Pass 3 was much cleaner, but I was ready to get off the throttle if I detected big misfires. According to the log, there were a very slight few which i only felt at the top end:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52969876417_a798dae7f7_z.jpg




The sliced wires (not sure how I overlooked it, but i did)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52970849150_9af1bf02a0_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52969875362_cb5ec779b6_z.jpg
.






Also:
I did a complete holley efi software download, I loaded up the newest firmware onto the handheld, and loaded the newest holley sniper ecu firmware, and bought a new 8gb SD card for the sniper too. This was a crazy thing for me to do because I am a very low-tech person.
I did this because of the wild looking datalogs I was getting where there was tons of missing data. And, success. the firmware, sd card, software now has me up-to date and free from missing data in the logs.



I wanted to do new pads and rotors for the front this winter, but just didn't get to it. My rotors had turned ugly over years of autocross and dragracing with them, and I only had a little bit of pad life left anyway. A clean set of front rotors will be good for Carlisle, and great for UMI in July. Bolted on the powerstop Z23 font kit for 1LE brakes/C4 HD, and painted the calipers afterwards. Also removed the front lakewood 90/10 drag struts and rear lakewood 50/50 drag shocks, and put on the adjustable koni yellows. Bolted the front sway bar back on with all new bushings on the endlinks. Installed new "roof-rail" (upper window) weatherstripping just this weekend also, and painted the rear decklid's metal trim black as it was nasty.



This was the flat-black metal primer. I went with a satin finish and it turned out good, but no photos of it at the moment.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52970927178_1d9e07da18_z.jpg



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52970984388_fb57b11f32_z.jpg


Still hopefully going to find time to get a full detail job on the paint and under the hood in hops of getting to Carlisle next weekend. car is running gooooood though!

[thehazguy]

Good news Dave. Gremlins suck.

Be safe. Hope the little man is doing better.

Took the 57 out for the first time this year. Went to the Cars and Coffee Saturday at Island. Good turn out. Need to tweet out the carb after being refreshed. Then maybe a Friday night session.

https://youtu.be/EFsyEWGRV30

[townsend]

awesome to see you got this sorted out

[IROCZman15]

Thanks guys. I was baffled for a bit by it, no doubt.
Jerry, thats awesome you got the car out and about because its been a while since the Fall season. I still have a photo to give to you next time of you in the winners circle with a trophy, a real printed out photo!

[Blackbirdws6]

Glad you got it sorted out and its running good!

[IROCZman15]

Completed the last minute thrash to get the car cleaned up, detailed, and ready for Carlisle on Monday of last week. Left at noon on Thursday and drove through some good patches of rain, to arrive at Carlisle at 3pm. Dried the car off after registering and getting parked in the building. Bunch of my buddies were already there and more came throughout the weekend. It was awesome to see a good amount of cars and people I knew, but also chilling with new people was awesome. There was 9 of us in the building R display which was awesome, but overall I think we had about 70-80 thirdgens, and then probably 45-50 fourthgens. I took some photos, but not as many as I used to. Drove home after everything ended on Saturday, including rainstorms, but overall, it was awesome. Put about 360 miles on the car, which ran really really really well. I just have to source out the oil leak at the back of the engine (again) because occasionally I would get a whiff of burning oil from there. All the EFI stuff was dialed in and it was nice to drive the car with the konis, street wheels, front sway bar, and sound system back installed. My buddy John won the exhaust competition with his firebird. The did both a 3rd gen parade and a 4th gen parade driving the fairgrounds too.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001481170_2242f3f980_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001101821_4dbeaffc54_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001252159_db2170d711_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001481140_861c707594_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001255264_1438ebd910_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53000510812_b8d28a6eab_z.jpg



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001492675_6514d71270_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001492715_1b792006f9_z.jpg

[IROCZman15]

More photos:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53000520947_f25749f913_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001495100_39bd8770e1_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001499800_832f7ca2a9_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001499795_ee1aaf1333_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001594198_e3e1acc629_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001499765_c30ecb6cb4_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001275919_0efa397429_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001598843_978a274d71_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53001504280_ea8448ed64_z.jpg

[Blackbirdws6]

Another friend of mine (Michael Fay) had his 4th gen formula LSx inside the building on display (graphite wrapped car). I always seem to forget about this event but will try to get there one of these years. Glad you had a good time and hope the weather held off somewhat reasonably.

How did you go about getting to display in the building?

[townsend]

Another friend of mine (Michael Fay) had his 4th gen formula LSx inside the building on display (graphite wrapped car). I always seem to forget about this event but will try to get there one of these years. Glad you had a good time and hope the weather held off somewhat reasonably.

How did you go about getting to display in the building?

heard they dont take lt1's with leaky oil pans :rofl:

[Blackbirdws6]

heard they dont take lt1's with leaky oil pans :rofl:

So no LT1's then. Got it. :-P

[townsend]

So no LT1's then. Got it. :-P

i see what you did there :wink:

[IROCZman15]

I saw that grey car. He was in building T along with another 9 second red 4th gen and JT who has the 4th gen Big Red pro-street car. I chatted with your buddy for a bit on Thursday night then, before the pizza dinner. Yup.

Actually, I got setup with the feature cars just by chance. Back in August last year i was at the Hackettstwon Cops-n-Rodders show and all of a sudden Chris (L695Speed) calls me and says come back over to your car, someone wants to talk to ya. So I walk back over and Chris introduces me to Mike (IROC-Mike) who asks if I want to be involved in the newly formed 3rd gen nationals event coming in 2023. There was a real good uptick of 3rd gen participants in the Carlisle event last year, plus the big 40 car display last year, that they wanted to do another one and he wanted me to be in it. So I told him, 95% yes pending on how life/the car was as summer 2023 got closer. If it wasn't for Mike seeing the car in Hackettstown and then finding Chris, and Chris calling me... it probably wouldn't have happened that way; therefore thanks goes to both of them!

[LTb1ow]

Looking good Dave

[wretched73]

Race wars will happen and Dave will whoop on everyone.

I can't wait.

[townsend]

Race wars will happen and Dave will whoop on everyone.

I can't wait.

mmmmmmm id love to race that third gen

[IROCZman15]

Oh, you would smoke me.
I will put the dashcam in 4k HD recording so we can count how many bus-lengths you beat me by!

[Blackbirdws6]

Up the jets and put it on the bumper

[IROCZman15]

I definitely would be down for that. I think I might also try some weight in the trunk and also using the Konis again

I’ll bring both bottles of nitrous and jets

and send it to the moon

[townsend]

I definitely would be down for that. I think I might also try some weight in the trunk and also using the Konis again

I’ll bring both bottles of nitrous and jets

im back on the 150 jets, that 9.90/200 pass had too much timing and had a 7 heat range vs what should be an 8 and smoked #7 plug (got luuuucky).

so im back on my mid 10's jets, itd just be fun runs. you got a bit more cubes than me (381 vs 406) too

[LTb1ow]

In this thread, nitrous bros share nitrous problems

[townsend]

In this thread, nitrous bros share nitrous problems

:bertstare:

[IROCZman15]

In this thread, nitrous bros share nitrous problems


!!! yes indeed.

[townsend]

uhm late post, island cars and covfefe this am

[townsend]

!!! yes indeed.

including the weight?? i just weighed mine, 3720 with me and a tank of fuel/1 full nitrous bottle

[IROCZman15]

yea, mines heavy. I forget the exact weight at the moment, but a few pages back i probably took photos of it on the scale byt he nearby quarry. I want to saw 3420 with out me in it and 3620 or so with me and full tank(S).



After Carlisle, the car sat for almost 2 weeks due to life getting busy. Then I recently got under it, for a few things. Had noticed a clunk sometimes under cornering and found that the hole in my panhard bar relocation bracket had opened up (or maybe I drilled it bigger years ago and forgot), anyways, the bolt was moving around so I welded the hole closed and drilled a new one. This is the hole for that special 'stepped down" panhard bar bolt, so you cant use any grade8 fastener off the shelf. Spohn sells them. I also cleaned up all the oil and tried to find the source of the leak. Didn't, but still working on it. Engine oil slings around inside the bellhousing area from somewhere on the back of the block. checked everything I could back there.* Did resolve a squeezed-closed rubber fitting on my "pcv" line which I am CERTAIN was a culprit in the oil blowby and oil leak on the way to carlisle. Ordered some oil dye and blacklight.


Was planning on investigating it at the UMI autocross event this upcoming weekend. Got the car cleaned up, fueled up, packed, aired-up etc this past weekend despite some uncertainty in being able to attend. To make a long story short, my wife has got to go to PA to visit with her family after her father fell some weeks ago and recently had emergency surgery on his brain and bleeding, seizures, etc. She's gotta go out there for sure, so I am going to have to step-out of the UMI autocross event this weekend and stay home in NJ to be with the 1 year old. Having done the UMI event before makes it more of a bummer because this is really a great multi-day event in so many ways. Hopefully UMI can get someone from the wait-list to jump in last minute.

But the car feels good and hopefully that oil leak can be lessened by the pcv hose setup now; will road test it one night; after unloading everything from it !

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53056395718_a3fbeb9aee.jpg

[IROCZman15]

Another Chapter in the roller coaster ride here! Beware of a long post ahead
(I guess its not really a "dyno-fail", its more of a "pre-dyno failure")!!



With hopes of a few dragstrip days this upcoming fall I wanted to do everything I could to try to get the car dialed in as best as possible, especially the nitrous. For years, I wanted to put it on a dyno and see what could be gained from live-tuning it instead of datalogs and seat-of-the-pants observations. Scheduled an appointment a few weeks ahead of time to give me some time to prepare and street drive the car. Flashing back...The car had acted great after sorting out the ignition and datalogging issues from May/June (see post #565 on the previous page for a recap) and it drove freakin perfect both to-and-from Carlisle even in bad rainy weather. I also took the car out this past Tuesday and put an hour of driving on it, including 4 brief nitrous hits on a local highway. I wanted to check that all the systems were turning on and simply run the car through it's paces while logging and later looking at the tune. Came home from Tuesdays drive ready to freakin hit the roller for sure. Did a nut and bolt check, checked critical areas, belts, wiring, fluids, and so forth. Everything was great.

Friday morning, after packing some remaining gear in the car I let it warm up and started to drive over to Blue Sky Performance and Restoration who's new shop is in Andover, only 15 minutes away. However, not even before I got out of my neighborhood, I felt the car stutter, backfire and saw the tach needles jump intermittently. I instantly knew that the ignition problem from May had returned. Freakin devastated. I decided to see if it would clear up if I drove gently and it didn't, but I was hawk-eyeing everything the whole time. There were times that the engine would not have an "event" for almost a minute or more, and sometimes where it would pop and buck within a few seconds of eachtoher. Nothing was making sense, but before you know it I was at Blue Sky. I spoke with Jeff, one hell of an awesome guy, and also one of the owners. I told him the car was actualyl ready to go until the suprise issue this morning and it was unlikely we would make any power pulls. He said he wouldnt mind using some of the time I reserved to investigate what might be going on. So, he pulled the car inside and while he was driving it though the shop and loading it onto the machine, it did NOT pop or bang one single time in the course of several minutes. Hmm, maybe it was a fluke, but I was real skeptical. We go on strapping the car down knowing this was now most likely going to be a troubleshooting session. We go over all my GCF settings in each page of the Holley software and then get the roller spinning under a very light load. It is a DynoCom dyno unit and I was able to learn about it a bit from him, but during this first roll of the wheels, he did not have any load applied to the rollers. Engine ran smooth just coasting from 1st to 2nd and into3rd. Ok cool; maybe we are in luck!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53128603964_024de12ab1_c.jpg



We then agree to run the car gently with the brake applied to the dyno rollers and within just the first few seconds I heard it backfire and begin to act stupid. Since we had a live-datalog running directly from the holley to this laptop via the can-bus, he let the engine run a little bit. We also had the live-timing cursor active to possibly see if any cells in any of the tune parameters are hitting erroneously. Shut the car down after about a minute of low-mid rpm throttle filled with plenty of pops and backfires. See the datalog (screenshot of datalog). I start checking wires, specifically at the area where I had found the slice in the insulation back in May. I peel the loom off and the wire repair is still intact, no issues there. What I do notice, is that the rubberized/plastic grommet that these 3 wires pass through while entering the bottom of the distributor housing, well that "grommet" has now come out and is free-floating with the wire loom. Eh, whatever, its just a grommet right? We all have a plentiful amount of grommets in our vehicles and sometimes they slip out of place right; sometimes they have no negative effects ever, and probably sometimes we never notice they are compromised. Anyways, I move on and we check a bunch of other things. After checking a bunch of pins with a meter, using a timing light we go to crank the car again. Now it will crank, but has no spark! and narrowing our findings to the Hyperspark distributor, I partially lift up the distributor cap to just simply check that the wheel of the hall-effect sensor is turning and it is. I was out of ideas and I was not wanting to waste any more of their time, so we agree to reschedule because I am hopeful to figure out the issue and resolve it by then. We get the car unstrapped and pushed outside where I had called a local tow truck drive to scoop me up. Damn, that sucked; the very last time this car was on a tow truck was back in 2017 when I roasted the old transmission to death while driving up to the Chatterbox a few weeks after competing in that Optima Batteries USCA shootout at the track in Millville. So, having the car towed is certainly a bad moment, but thankfully it is a rare one.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53128639754_c0ae2c80c5_c.jpg



One the car is unloaded back at my house I had some other important stuff to tend to and was finally able to revisit the issue later on. Did some research first and found a post on the Holley forums from just a few weeks ago that intrigues me. link: https://forums.holley.com/forum/holley-efi/sniper-efi/379014-hyperspark-distributor-reluctor-pickup-mechanical-failure-parts
Also in that post is a link to a youtube video with another guy with the same problem. I then head on out to the garage, turn on the go-pro and take the cap/wires off of the distributor. THE SENSOR IS COMPLETLY LOOSE AND FREE TO SWING AROUND A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT which right then and there pinpoints my problem. These Holley Hyperspark distributors might look flashy and cool but the parts in it are apparently plastic garbage. WTF. I have had this hyperspark for less than 3 years and only about 4,000 miles but the internals are loose! Wow, I was pist; I am still pist. If you examine how the hall-effect wheel and sensor is setup on these units, it looks like one side of the black plastic sensor is mounted with a dowel or pin and the other side is kept in place... by... the...freakin...stuipd...plastic...grommet....that ....the ...freakin...wires...pass..through!!!!! With my grommet now sheared off completely and lazily serving no purpose whatseover, the sensor was free to slop around inside the housing. I'm surprised I only had some short pops and blips with the timing situation; how did it even manage to stay running! Shut the garage down for the night and type up some posts on the other holley threads to find out how these other unlucky hyperspark victims handled it. Some with glue, some with this replacement (crap plastic again) sensor, but I would have to cut the wire connections and splice them onto my existing pigtail etc. Ugh. It was too late to call Holley so I called them first thing this morning. They used to have saturday hours, but now, of course, no help for car guys on weekends anymore; thanks Holley. I then call Jegs, where I bought the Hyperspark distributor, coil, and CD box from and I installed them on 9/16/2020. Expected to get nowhere, and thats how it went! They only cover 90-days for any warranty on this Holley ignition junk. Ha, also, a big kick in the nuts this morning was after calling the Holley phone line and having the robot tell me they are closed today, I get an email from Holley boasting about their current 20% off sale, couldn't help but laugh. Ain't no way they are going to help you on a Saturday, but be sure they want you to keep shopping instead!


So, now I wait until Monday after I get off of work to place a fiery call to Holley. They will probably push me off and I'll be stuck figuring it out and eating the bill for either a new distributor entirely or I'll do what I really don't want to do, and get out the bubble gum and duct-tape to try to do a hack-fix for the remainder of the year. I'd like to find a way to simply maybe finish this calendar year with the holley hyperspark stuff so I am not going to want to start researching or discussing any other non-Holley EFGI systems just yet.
*Let's please hold off on that entire topic for a moment.


I have some videos of the car on the rollers, and you can hear it act great during that timeperiod when there was no load on the dyno-brake, and also another video of how it popped and spit when load was applied just minutes later. I will upload them as I get time. However, here is a link to one of the youtube videos I filmed last night when I uncovered the sensor floating around:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxV6YrfnZio


also a link to another holley hyperspark failure:
https://forums.holley.com/forum/holley-efi/sniper-efi/39043-broken-hyperspark-distributor



I have a screenshot of the datalog from when load was applied on the second roll when the problem came back and ended our session:
- If someone smarter than me has anything to add, please feel free. The tricky thing that I THINK is happening, is even through the dark-red line isn't showing many of the "event" it because the computer is still trying to hold timing at my pre-set timing map right? But since that sensor inside the distributor is chattering around, even thought the timing is probably accurately being commanded, its not arriving where it needs to at a precise time.. therefore, you can see the actual AFR suffer (light green line acorss the middle of the graph) which on a properly running setup SHOULD be really a really tight match with the blue line near it (which is my Target AFR). am I missing something?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53128826155_f6ec383913_c.jpg

A lingering questions is why does the issue not happen at idle and low loads, but under moderate load (and back on May 28 at the dragstrip)it comes about? If you look at the photos from my post in May you can see the grommet in its place, but the likelihood that it was just hanging out as a wire grommet and had already separated from the hall-effect plastic sensor is pretty high. When I was repairing the wiring odds are i nudged it back up into a place where it was snug enough to the sensor again and therefore held it in place for all of June and all of July. Then, this past Tuesday when I did my nut/bolt/fluids/underhood check, I certainly DO remember giving a physical exam of this exact wire loom, because the problems I had troubleshoot with it were fresh in my brain. At that moment, it seems likely that the broken piece of grommet/sensor separated again and just waited to "let me know" about it Friday morning. C'mon!



So, in reality, there is a silver lining in all of this I suppose. I am thankful that the issue happened during my drive to the shop instead of being unknown until perhaps 6000 rpms on the dyno with the nitrous flowing. That certainly would have been catastrophic. I hope Holley has the decency to address my situation in a manner that I even want to continue ever buying any of the cheap crap that keeps almost sending this car to an early grave. Jokingly, today I told myself that I will probably have to save up for a gravesite headstone for this car which will have some kind of inscription like "Here lies a 1987 Camaro - killed by cheap defective Holley parts".


I'll get it sorted out, but I had to add this update on here while waiting for my "chat' with Holley on Monday.

[townsend]

Another Chapter in the roller coaster ride here! Beware of a long post ahead
(I guess its not really a "dyno-fail", its more of a "pre-dyno failure")!!



With hopes of a few dragstrip days this upcoming fall I wanted to do everything I could to try to get the car dialed in as best as possible, especially the nitrous. For years, I wanted to put it on a dyno and see what could be gained from live-tuning it instead of datalogs and seat-of-the-pants observations. Scheduled an appointment a few weeks ahead of time to give me some time to prepare and street drive the car. Flashing back...The car had acted great after sorting out the ignition and datalogging issues from May/June (see post #565 on the previous page for a recap) and it drove freakin perfect both to-and-from Carlisle even in bad rainy weather. I also took the car out this past Tuesday and put an hour of driving on it, including 4 brief nitrous hits on a local highway. I wanted to check that all the systems were turning on and simply run the car through it's paces while logging and later looking at the tune. Came home from Tuesdays drive ready to freakin hit the roller for sure. Did a nut and bolt check, checked critical areas, belts, wiring, fluids, and so forth. Everything was great.

Friday morning, after packing some remaining gear in the car I let it warm up and started to drive over to Blue Sky Performance and Restoration who's new shop is in Andover, only 15 minutes away. However, not even before I got out of my neighborhood, I felt the car stutter, backfire and saw the tach needles jump intermittently. I instantly knew that the ignition problem from May had returned. Freakin devastated. I decided to see if it would clear up if I drove gently and it didn't, but I was hawk-eyeing everything the whole time. There were times that the engine would not have an "event" for almost a minute or more, and sometimes where it would pop and buck within a few seconds of eachtoher. Nothing was making sense, but before you know it I was at Blue Sky. I spoke with Jeff, one hell of an awesome guy, and also one of the owners. I told him the car was actualyl ready to go until the suprise issue this morning and it was unlikely we would make any power pulls. He said he wouldnt mind using some of the time I reserved to investigate what might be going on. So, he pulled the car inside and while he was driving it though the shop and loading it onto the machine, it did NOT pop or bang one single time in the course of several minutes. Hmm, maybe it was a fluke, but I was real skeptical. We go on strapping the car down knowing this was now most likely going to be a troubleshooting session. We go over all my GCF settings in each page of the Holley software and then get the roller spinning under a very light load. It is a DynoCom dyno unit and I was able to learn about it a bit from him, but during this first roll of the wheels, he did not have any load applied to the rollers. Engine ran smooth just coasting from 1st to 2nd and into3rd. Ok cool; maybe we are in luck!

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53128603964_024de12ab1_c.jpg



We then agree to run the car gently with the brake applied to the dyno rollers and within just the first few seconds I heard it backfire and begin to act stupid. Since we had a live-datalog running directly from the holley to this laptop via the can-bus, he let the engine run a little bit. We also had the live-timing cursor active to possibly see if any cells in any of the tune parameters are hitting erroneously. Shut the car down after about a minute of low-mid rpm throttle filled with plenty of pops and backfires. See the datalog (screenshot of datalog). I start checking wires, specifically at the area where I had found the slice in the insulation back in May. I peel the loom off and the wire repair is still intact, no issues there. What I do notice, is that the rubberized/plastic grommet that these 3 wires pass through while entering the bottom of the distributor housing, well that "grommet" has now come out and is free-floating with the wire loom. Eh, whatever, its just a grommet right? We all have a plentiful amount of grommets in our vehicles and sometimes they slip out of place right; sometimes they have no negative effects ever, and probably sometimes we never notice they are compromised. Anyways, I move on and we check a bunch of other things. After checking a bunch of pins with a meter, using a timing light we go to crank the car again. Now it will crank, but has no spark! and narrowing our findings to the Hyperspark distributor, I partially lift up the distributor cap to just simply check that the wheel of the hall-effect sensor is turning and it is. I was out of ideas and I was not wanting to waste any more of their time, so we agree to reschedule because I am hopeful to figure out the issue and resolve it by then. We get the car unstrapped and pushed outside where I had called a local tow truck drive to scoop me up. Damn, that sucked; the very last time this car was on a tow truck was back in 2017 when I roasted the old transmission to death while driving up to the Chatterbox a few weeks after competing in that Optima Batteries USCA shootout at the track in Millville. So, having the car towed is certainly a bad moment, but thankfully it is a rare one.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53128639754_c0ae2c80c5_c.jpg



One the car is unloaded back at my house I had some other important stuff to tend to and was finally able to revisit the issue later on. Did some research first and found a post on the Holley forums from just a few weeks ago that intrigues me. link: https://forums.holley.com/forum/holley-efi/sniper-efi/379014-hyperspark-distributor-reluctor-pickup-mechanical-failure-parts
Also in that post is a link to a youtube video with another guy with the same problem. I then head on out to the garage, turn on the go-pro and take the cap/wires off of the distributor. THE SENSOR IS COMPLETLY LOOSE AND FREE TO SWING AROUND A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT which right then and there pinpoints my problem. These Holley Hyperspark distributors might look flashy and cool but the parts in it are apparently plastic garbage. WTF. I have had this hyperspark for less than 3 years and only about 4,000 miles but the internals are loose! Wow, I was pist; I am still pist. If you examine how the hall-effect wheel and sensor is setup on these units, it looks like one side of the black plastic sensor is mounted with a dowel or pin and the other side is kept in place... by... the...freakin...stuipd...plastic...grommet....that ....the ...freakin...wires...pass..through!!!!! With my grommet now sheared off completely and lazily serving no purpose whatseover, the sensor was free to slop around inside the housing. I'm surprised I only had some short pops and blips with the timing situation; how did it even manage to stay running! Shut the garage down for the night and type up some posts on the other holley threads to find out how these other unlucky hyperspark victims handled it. Some with glue, some with this replacement (crap plastic again) sensor, but I would have to cut the wire connections and splice them onto my existing pigtail etc. Ugh. It was too late to call Holley so I called them first thing this morning. They used to have saturday hours, but now, of course, no help for car guys on weekends anymore; thanks Holley. I then call Jegs, where I bought the Hyperspark distributor, coil, and CD box from and I installed them on 9/16/2020. Expected to get nowhere, and thats how it went! They only cover 90-days for any warranty on this Holley ignition junk. Ha, also, a big kick in the nuts this morning was after calling the Holley phone line and having the robot tell me they are closed today, I get an email from Holley boasting about their current 20% off sale, couldn't help but laugh. Ain't no way they are going to help you on a Saturday, but be sure they want you to keep shopping instead!


So, now I wait until Monday after I get off of work to place a fiery call to Holley. They will probably push me off and I'll be stuck figuring it out and eating the bill for either a new distributor entirely or I'll do what I really don't want to do, and get out the bubble gum and duct-tape to try to do a hack-fix for the remainder of the year. I'd like to find a way to simply maybe finish this calendar year with the holley hyperspark stuff so I am not going to want to start researching or discussing any other non-Holley EFGI systems just yet.
*Let's please hold off on that entire topic for a moment.


I have some videos of the car on the rollers, and you can hear it act great during that timeperiod when there was no load on the dyno-brake, and also another video of how it popped and spit when load was applied just minutes later. I will upload them as I get time. However, here is a link to one of the youtube videos I filmed last night when I uncovered the sensor floating around:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxV6YrfnZio


also a link to another holley hyperspark failure:
https://forums.holley.com/forum/holley-efi/sniper-efi/39043-broken-hyperspark-distributor



I have a screenshot of the datalog from when load was applied on the second roll when the problem came back and ended our session:
- If someone smarter than me has anything to add, please feel free. The tricky thing that I THINK is happening, is even through the dark-red line isn't showing many of the "event" it because the computer is still trying to hold timing at my pre-set timing map right? But since that sensor inside the distributor is chattering around, even thought the timing is probably accurately being commanded, its not arriving where it needs to at a precise time.. therefore, you can see the actual AFR suffer (light green line acorss the middle of the graph) which on a properly running setup SHOULD be really a really tight match with the blue line near it (which is my Target AFR). am I missing something?
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53128826155_f6ec383913_c.jpg

A lingering questions is why does the issue not happen at idle and low loads, but under moderate load (and back on May 28 at the dragstrip)it comes about? If you look at the photos from my post in May you can see the grommet in its place, but the likelihood that it was just hanging out as a wire grommet and had already separated from the hall-effect plastic sensor is pretty high. When I was repairing the wiring odds are i nudged it back up into a place where it was snug enough to the sensor again and therefore held it in place for all of June and all of July. Then, this past Tuesday when I did my nut/bolt/fluids/underhood check, I certainly DO remember giving a physical exam of this exact wire loom, because the problems I had troubleshoot with it were fresh in my brain. At that moment, it seems likely that the broken piece of grommet/sensor separated again and just waited to "let me know" about it Friday morning. C'mon!



So, in reality, there is a silver lining in all of this I suppose. I am thankful that the issue happened during my drive to the shop instead of being unknown until perhaps 6000 rpms on the dyno with the nitrous flowing. That certainly would have been catastrophic. I hope Holley has the decency to address my situation in a manner that I even want to continue ever buying any of the cheap crap that keeps almost sending this car to an early grave. Jokingly, today I told myself that I will probably have to save up for a gravesite headstone for this car which will have some kind of inscription like "Here lies a 1987 Camaro - killed by cheap defective Holley parts".


I'll get it sorted out, but I had to add this update on here while waiting for my "chat' with Holley on Monday.

damn man, but atleast you know what it is!

i put a show on at island the last 2 times ive gone, a friday night about 6 weeks back and TODAY. both times, 3rd pass car will randomly die in the lanes, restart all will seem fine, then go to make the hit and have a nitrous backfire. last time i went 10.46 off the trailer, had a crap 2nd pass playing with the gear vendors, then blew the maf/ram air box out on the leave. same thing today. 10.66 second pass (hot track spun thru first) final pass idling fine then died waiting to do burnout, restarted and revved fine and did the burnout fine, so said ok vapor locked lines/rail maybe? then same thing again go to leave and pop back thru the intake. i threw the parts cannon at it last time, so im aggravated.

hope you get her fixed soon so we can run!

[wretched73]

That's some tough sledding Dave.

It sounds like the sensor just has to be secured better? I'd fix the one you have better than Holley did and send it. Hot rodding is all about making this work better or ****ing with them until they work worse.

[IROCZman15]

townsend: damn, yea man, diagnosing it at the track sometimes does run its course on ya, but dude I am glad you have been going there. It's going to be a few weeks still before I hit the track, but lets definitely get a few rips on the track in this year.
- keep in mind, I am looking to see if people are interested in a track rental in early/mid October at island. I'll certainly be running the car. Thread about this coming on the Events sub-forum

wretched: yea man, that was my first thought, and If we had discovered it at blue sky, I think we would have actually probably just glued that sucker up and at least ran the car moderately to check that nothing else suffered during the course of all this. Found it too late in the day but knew I had possibilities.

Called Holley Monday, talked through tech support and got to the supervisor. He was same exact guy (named Ray) that I talked to 3 years ago (Sept 2020) when my MSD box failed and then we went through getting this whole damn hyperspark system. He understood why I was so torqued up about everything and sent me a free direct replacement. I'm glad to have had an overall good experience with Holley support this particular time. Got the email that it shipped out today so it will be here tomorrow. I'll disassemble it and mount that sensor in place for eternity first though.

[sweetbmxrider]

That's some tough sledding Dave.

It sounds like the sensor just has to be secured better? I'd fix the one you have better than Holley did and send it. Hot rodding is all about making this work better or ****ing with them until they work worse.

I agree. Use this original to improve the design with a secure mount to the body of the dizzy.

[LTb1ow]

Glad to hear holley is taking care of it

[wretched73]

I agree. Use this original to improve the design with a secure mount to the body of the dizzy.

https://images.holley.com/583x/565-300_v218143.jpg

Looks like this is it. Bet you could drill a hole either in front and behind the sensor, then use a small piece of bent metal as a strap to keep it in place. Or drill a hole to the left of the senor and again use a smaller piece of metal glued to the backside of the sensor.

And like Adam says, improve on the original.

[townsend]

townsend: damn, yea man, diagnosing it at the track sometimes does run its course on ya, but dude I am glad you have been going there. It's going to be a few weeks still before I hit the track, but lets definitely get a few rips on the track in this year.
- keep in mind, I am looking to see if people are interested in a track rental in early/mid October at island. I'll certainly be running the car. Thread about this coming on the Events sub-forum

wretched: yea man, that was my first thought, and If we had discovered it at blue sky, I think we would have actually probably just glued that sucker up and at least ran the car moderately to check that nothing else suffered during the course of all this. Found it too late in the day but knew I had possibilities.

Called Holley Monday, talked through tech support and got to the supervisor. He was same exact guy (named Ray) that I talked to 3 years ago (Sept 2020) when my MSD box failed and then we went through getting this whole damn hyperspark system. He understood why I was so torqued up about everything and sent me a free direct replacement. I'm glad to have had an overall good experience with Holley support this particular time. Got the email that it shipped out today so it will be here tomorrow. I'll disassemble it and mount that sensor in place for eternity first though.

keep me in the loop about the rental. we will bring atleast 1 car or both. thanks man

[IROCZman15]

Yup, got the new distributor today. Going to take the old one out, disassemble it and see what creatively I can come up with to set it in place for good. Some good ideas here already, cool thanks!

yes indeed, I started a new thread about it and I am starting to gauge interest from some of my various car buddies too. Any discussion is welcome and here is the thread:
http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?p=958083#post958083

[IROCZman15]

Removed the old unit today and checked it over. As expected, sensor slapping around all under the wheel. Also the sensor had so much slop in it, that it carved a pretty deep groove in the metal wheel too and sprayed all that rusty dust all over inside there. It must have been chaos inside that distributor cap for who knows how long. Whew!

Filmed it on a video; Felt like info I could pass along on youtube and the Holley forums.
but its a long video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCrGEwA6U9o

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53139732171_cce5eb1ce0_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53140206918_e4209be1c7_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53139134327_420c027103_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53139732146_11c5302b54_z.jpg


Took apart the brand new one from Holley and used a clear high-strength epoxy on anywhere I could identify as a mating surface. Also glued the wire grommet in place too. Will get it installed tomorrow and get all the timing set. Going to do a spark plug change too. Possibly heading to Flemington car show on Saturday, I haven't been there in 4or5 years so I don't know what to expect.


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53139734471_452355c650_z.jpg


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53139734526_b411e341dc_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53139136642_9ed4db1529_z.jpg

[Blackbirdws6]

Hope that solves your issue. You planning to "fix" and keep the old unit as a spare or its shot from all the rubbing?