whats better speed shifting or leting teh car shift by its self - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

Kid Racer · 01-28-2007, 07:24 PM

hey guys what is better inan auto tranny...is it better when u are racing someone too juss put the car in d or is it better too manuly shift the car....

deadtrend1 · 01-28-2007, 07:50 PM

put it i D and floor it ..... no need to manually do it since most likely you go past second or D or OD into neutral or reverse.

Kid Racer · 01-28-2007, 08:10 PM

nah i dont miss any gears... i go into each gear...and double cluting my tq converter what.....any way thank u but..ima stil shift my car..caus ei have raced both ways and i get more out of manuly shifting it then i do juss leaving it in d...

WildBillyT · 01-28-2007, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid Racer

nah i dont miss any gears... i go into each gear...and double cluting my tq converter what.....any way thank u but..ima stil shift my car..caus ei have raced both ways and i get more out of manuly shifting it then i do juss leaving it in d...

Leave it in D. Never throw it into neutral at the end of a run and (for the most part) don't downshift it manually.

deadtrend1 · 01-28-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0n

then why are you asking us?

maybe he just wants to make conversation

Oh yea, downshifting manually at high speed... baaaadddd

JSPERFORMANCE · 01-28-2007, 08:32 PM

leave it in d for dummy.. If the trans is built right you will not be able to make it work better by playing with the shifter...

Kid Racer · 01-28-2007, 08:49 PM

well i i asked cause i know every one has a difference in there on mind..and i juss wnated too now what every one would say...but i wont leave my car in d..it aint going to happin untill provin wrong...because i proved too my self that juss leveing it in drive hurts me in a race in my car...

Kid Racer · 01-28-2007, 08:52 PM

sorry i should have put this in teh other coment...ron i know that people on here now what they r talking about..juss like u..why u think i come too u with everything ron...juss on somethings liek this i go by what i have proven too my self dude...

JSPERFORMANCE · 01-28-2007, 08:59 PM

when you beat ANY of the automatic cars from my shop while shifting yours yourself then you can be right... But then again I shouldnt be trying to help you because when you break your car it is good for the automotive repair and aftermerket parts industry.. Better yet you could be the next in line to sell me your broken car cheap because you spent all your $$ trying to "make it faster".. Go for it!! You know that if you put it in neutral and hold the throttle to the floor before you pull first gear the car will be loads faster!!!!

98tadriver · 01-28-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid Racer

well i i asked cause i know every one has a difference in there on mind..and i juss wnated too now what every one would say...but i wont leave my car in d..it aint going to happin untill provin wrong...because i proved too my self that juss leveing it in drive hurts me in a race in my car...

Based on my personal experiences, the one and only way to prove your theory- go to the track and on your first run, shift it. then on your second run after it cools down a lil, run it in D! as long as u have similar launches, you can see which is better

Kid Racer · 01-28-2007, 09:06 PM

yea i anit stupid...and if my car ran right and u had one that ran what i ran then i would race it....

Kid Racer · 01-28-2007, 09:07 PM

okay ron ill do that this summer em and u will ride up there and see what happins iight dude...and if all u guys are right i will say sorry...

JSPERFORMANCE · 01-28-2007, 09:07 PM

Ron, you make too much sense.. you couldnt possibly be right! I would do the first run in drive that way it will still be together for the second pass.

Kid Racer · 01-28-2007, 09:15 PM

yea ur right it does..it may not make it liek all u guys that have work done to them but for a stock 3rd gen i think it does iight....

98tadriver · 01-28-2007, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSPERFORMANCE

Ron, you make too much sense.. you couldnt possibly be right! I would do the first run in drive that way it will still be together for the second pass.

heh, if mine stays together for more than a month at a time, I'll be happy.

V · 01-28-2007, 10:58 PM

well when i used to run my caddy, I tried several ways.
Started it in OD...D...2nd...and 1st
Bone stock and modded, the best result for me personally was starting in 2nd.

I'd put it in 2nd and let the trans do the 1-2 shift itself, then i'd do the 2-3, and i just cant remember if i went to OD, it was like 6 years ago. i dont think i did stock, but after mods i had to i believe.

Shifting every gear manually gives you a larger chance to over rev and damage something, especially 1-2 shift. For some very odd reason, when i left in 2nd and trans did the 1-2 shift, It would actually chip both tires on the street and at the track. I could leave lines on the street from the shift, that was great. However, I beat on that car ALOT, and one day while driving normally, i just lost every gear except 2nd. I took it to one shop, pat barret tranmissions in westwood(just the name really, not him) and they told me I needed a full rebuild for 1300, and all he did was scan the car(check engine light came on for it) I had my boss at the tiem scan it and call our trans shop with the error code.."shift ratio B error", and we were told there are 2 shifter solenoids in the trans, one right above the pan, and the other on top inside the trans. I bought the solenoid for like $25 and towed the car to that shop that night. at 10am the next morning they called and it was done. When he dropped the pan to check, the lower solenoid was in peices and hanging by the wires. I paid him 100 for labor and i was good to go. i guess my point there was that shifting an auto not built specifically for that, can and most likely will, cause problems. I just got lucky.

oh, and let me also add, my trans then is nothing like yours in design and such. and mine was holding around 340hp

Batman · 01-29-2007, 06:10 AM

Shifting will probably just wear out your 700-R4, it isn't made for being beat like that. Plus I doubt you are going to be able to shift it faster then the computer. Leave it alone and let it run.

maroman88 · 01-29-2007, 12:19 PM

i usually cruise around with the cutout open in 2nd gear lol

racing wise i either start in 2nd and manually shift to D or just start in D

deadtrend1 · 01-29-2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid Racer

oh well its not juss this time..it seems liek everything i say or do someone is getting on me with smart coments or something an dit aint worth it any more....

I took this to PM to stop this from going on any longer.

ME .. the psuedo-moderator!

SupermanX24 · 01-29-2007, 05:59 PM

In my 3.4 I used to just launch it in 1st or 2nd. Then just go right to OD and let the tranny take care of everything. Barely noticable launch difference (starting in 1st or 2nd was better), but everything else was the same anyway. But yeah, not too smart to shift an auto trans...next thing you know your car is sitting in the garage not working right....soI wound up getting a formula.

NJSPEEDER · 01-29-2007, 11:54 PM

this thread cna remain open as long as it stays on topic.

as far as my experience, my 91RS was 2-3tenths quicker when i shifted the car myself vs letting it run through the gears on it's own. it is somehting you will have to experiment with a little to see if the car wants it or not.

Kid Racer · 01-30-2007, 12:12 AM

yes i have to agree with you...(njspeeder) cause i know my 91 z28 is better off by being shifted thro the gears..if i let the car do it it is slower...now i know my brothers 91 rs is better off leting the car do it....in my 91 z28 i can hold the gears a litle longer...when it does it by its self it shifts to soon..and for those that may say that my tv or dtint cable is loose it is not...or to tight its not....ron had takin the time when i had first got my car too show me how too adjust it...and before racing i do and after i am done racing for the night a do it again....i do not know why i can get my car to run better by manuly shifting it reather then letting the car do its self..but things work in mysterious ways...

Savage_Messiah · 01-30-2007, 01:12 AM

just get a shift kit and a converter and call it a day.

Batman · 01-30-2007, 06:58 AM

Are you sure it is shifting too soon? Just cause you aren't at your max RPM doesn't mean it is shifting at it's ideal shift point. If your motor stops making power at 5250 and you rev it to 5750 you just wasted 500 RPM. I don't know the TPI engines as well as I should so I can't tell you what the ideal shift point is but I do know higher RPM isn't always better (sounds cool though!). You need to figure out the power curve of your engine, factoring in what gear ratio's you are running and experiment to find your ideal shiftpoints. If I remember correctly TPI engines make very good low end torque and so-so top end HP (I am talking stock so don't jump on me!) so i would think if you have a decent rear gear ratio you would benefit more by getting the engine back into the fat part of the torque curve by letting the car shift sooner. Where as if you have a cam that puts the power up top you would want to rev it out as far as possible to keep it in the power curve. You can't always go by seat of the pants either. Take the car to the track, make at least 5 passes with the car shifting (so when you blow the 700-R4 power shifting it you may still get a comparison) then go ahead and rip away at it till your little heart is content for 5 runs. Average the numbers (don't just use peak numbers) and that will show you which way is better on average. The more runs in your comparion the better but do them in the same day because weather and track prep will also be a factor on any given day. Also try and keep cool down periods about the same so the trans is roughly the same temp. That's how I did when I still had the M6 (testing different launches and shift points) and I went from running 12.5's into the 11's with just some experimentaion on the same set-up (were talking close to a second in the 1/4). Speculation is fine but until you get out there and put it to the test you will never know.But my money is on the computer beating you, especially if you have a shift kit..

NJSPEEDER · 01-31-2007, 03:49 PM

one of the big problems with the 700's is that they are very very heavy internally. combine that with the huge step (45% rpm drop) between first and second and you can feel most stock or mild cars go very flat after teh shift. even if the motor is a bit spent on power when run out a little further, it will sometimes carry through the rpm drop better with that few hundred more rpm on the torque curve.
that is what i believe made the difference in my 91RS. the egine was actualy dropping well below peak power at the shift and costing me a bunch of time. most of my gains showed between the 60ft and the 1/8 mark where i spent my time in 2nd gear. it woudl also pick up a drop of trap speed, but nothing that would make a huge difference in ET, maybe .5 mph at most.