heads/cam swap help

[camaro2you]

Hey guys im pretty much set on getting these heads http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

Now I need some help on picking out a cam(i want a rough idle but i still want to make power), lifters, rockers, pushrods, timing chain. I will also need some help putting this all on the motor when it comes in, motor is already out of the car and on a stand. thanks in advance.

[Slow Z]

why would you pay $1427.38 for them heads? For that price (and cheaper) you can get better. You couldn't be more vague on what motor your building? cubes, compression, intake, efi/carb, gear, converter...? what type of cam? solid, roller, hydraulic... ?

[camaro2you]

Motor is a 350 bored .30, running a carb and im not sure if im sticking with my 700r4 with a 3800 stall or going to a t-56. I plan on shifting at or a little before 6000. Right now i have 3.73's and i might be going to 4.10's when i get my 12 bolt.

[Fast92RS]

You can get a really nice set of AFR heads for cheaper.

[Tru2Chevy]

That same head is only $569.99/each @ Jegs:

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...50168_-1_10187

- Justin

[johnjzjz]

Originally Posted by camaro2you

Hey guys im pretty much set on getting these heads http://store.summitracing.com/partde...0&autoview=sku

Now I need some help on picking out a cam(i want a rough idle but i still want to make power), lifters, rockers, pushrods, timing chain. I will also need some help putting this all on the motor when it comes in, motor is already out of the car and on a stand. thanks in advance.

hi can you tell me if you are using a flat top piston , what made you chose those ??? the only thing i see is a bronze type valve guide tha is a plus w/ room for 500 plus lift -- yes 200 intake runners but even with a 64 cc combustion chambers it is on the big side for street gas car -- are you looking solid cam or hyd and my guess its a older 355 motor or is it an lt1 ???? -- jz

[camaro2you]

Originally Posted by johnjzjz

hi can you tell me if you are using a flat top piston , what made you chose those ??? the only thing i see is a bronze type valve guide tha is a plus w/ room for 500 plus lift -- yes 200 intake runners but even with a 64 cc combustion chambers it is on the big side for street gas car -- are you looking solid cam or hyd and my guess its a older 355 motor or is it an lt1 ???? -- jz

Its a flat top piston, older motor not an lt1, and im probably looking to go to hyd cam, and Tim picked out those heads for me a while ago.

Cody

[johnjzjz]

If it were me i would use a solid cam and filling those heads would not be a problem -- i looked in to what my supplier has in the same head - the E Tech 200 your cost my book 1120.00 -- but they have alloys as cheap as 880.00 w/195 CCs -- or AFRs 195cc ( L98 ) 1310.00 and the canfield stuff is on a sale 200cc ( race package #1 .650 lift max or #2 .750 lift ) heads intake and valve covers all alloy 1280.00 your cost add 60 bucks for CNC work -- do not know what that intails -- will have to ask -- my question was about the cost more than what head i guess i was not as clear as i thought -- look for yourself -- www.competitionproducts.com --- bottom right on page 17 -- the book is your price and you can order direct -- i am a dealer with them and its not much different than what you pay -- jz

[camaro2you]

What is your opinion on trick flow's products? Cody

[johnjzjz]

NONE of the low end stuff -- now don't get me wrong -- i build only very fast stuff for big money and do not have any hands on experience with the street / week end race guy parts -- having said that - the flow #s are about the same in the tech info with those kind of heads -- ( reason ) the CNC program to do the porting after casting or ( as cast ) is the same one they ( all use ) its like the standard in the industry -- so all of them are going to be with in a spit of each other -- my 195cc head out flows yours -- RIGHT -- the advertising is the difference between nothing more -- but than again buy what you believe will work the best -- that is the best thing to do -- jz

[NJSPEEDER]

when cody and i talked about the combo with the e-tec 200's the idea was to have a combo with easy driveability and good top end power for weekend trips to the track. that is why the larger ports were choosen, to go after some top end pul.
using a comp cams extreme energy 284 the idea was that the high ramp rates of the XE series cam woudl support the low rpm air velocities normally associated with good cruising/driving street cars and yet still yield enough air flow to operate up to 6400-6600 rpm at the track for some weekend fun.
the idea was also to leave enough vacuumto operate power brakes, which the pulse draw from the larger ports shoudl easily support at low rpm.
it isn't a purely street mannered engine, or a tough to live with "street/strip" motor, more of a compromise to get good power and still be reasonable to live with.

[johnjzjz]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

when cody and i talked about the combo with the e-tec 200's the idea was to have a combo with easy driveability and good top end power for weekend trips to the track. that is why the larger ports were choosen, to go after some top end pul.
using a comp cams extreme energy 284 the idea was that the high ramp rates of the XE series cam woudl support the low rpm air velocities normally associated with good cruising/driving street cars and yet still yield enough air flow to operate up to 6400-6600 rpm at the track for some weekend fun.
the idea was also to leave enough vacuumto operate power brakes, which the pulse draw from the larger ports shoudl easily support at low rpm.
it isn't a purely street mannered engine, or a tough to live with "street/strip" motor, more of a compromise to get good power and still be reasonable to live with.

it sounds like it should work just fine -- if i can get all the info i will run it on my shops dyno computor and see i can export a data sheet but it will be a guess -- carb size un lead fuel, intake type single or duel plane no porting or gasket matching , hedder size ( tubes diam ) and runner length --- high or low restrict mufflers , my guess stock oil pan windage chain on cam gears 1.5 ratio rockers no rollers, no top vent tubes or heat blocking under intake ( tray ) , std volumn oil pump ??? 45 / 55 lbs -- stock crank shaft bob weight 16 / 17 hundred grams maybe -- auto trans ?? conv speed and diff gearing -- it might be a day or two before i can do but i will try -- that is if you want an idea about what to expect -- jz

[NJSPEEDER]

what software do you use? i have desktop dyno and dynosym to work with, but i have been looking for more advanced software.

andbefore anyone asks, dynosym sucks. lol

[johnjzjz]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

what software do you use? i have desktop dyno and dynosym to work with, but i have been looking for more advanced software.

andbefore anyone asks, dynosym sucks. lol

http://www.performancetrends.com/download.htm#eapro

this if it works is a demo

[Blackwizard222]

Personally, if your going with a relatively tame street/strip motor, why go with aluminum top dollar heads? You can make great power with a set of gasket ported aluminum vortecs and a decent sized voodoo or XE cam. I would go with an XE274 cam, the 284 is a bit large for decent low end torque in a daily driver. I have heard the xe274 run and it is a mean sounding cam. Make sure u have enough compression though or youll just end up with a motor which sounds badass but is a dog.

[Blackwizard222]

Originally Posted by johnjzjz

If it were me i would use a solid cam and filling those heads would not be a problem -- i looked in to what my supplier has in the same head - the E Tech 200 your cost my book 1120.00 -- but they have alloys as cheap as 880.00 w/195 CCs -- or AFRs 195cc ( L98 ) 1310.00 and the canfield stuff is on a sale 200cc ( race package #1 .650 lift max or #2 .750 lift ) heads intake and valve covers all alloy 1280.00 your cost add 60 bucks for CNC work -- do not know what that intails -- will have to ask -- my question was about the cost more than what head i guess i was not as clear as i thought -- look for yourself -- www.competitionproducts.com --- bottom right on page 17 -- the book is your price and you can order direct -- i am a dealer with them and its not much different than what you pay -- jz

I dont see the advantage of running a solid cam in a motor which is only going to 6k rpm. Hydraulic lifters can go to 7k now without pumping up and require little work to get them adjusted right.

[Blackwizard222]

Originally Posted by camaro2you

What is your opinion on trick flow's products? Cody

Trick flow makes decent budget heads but do not buy them assembled. If you go that route make sure to buy bare heads and have a reputable machine shop install brand name products on them. Most of the time when you purchase assembled lower end heads they will be put together with cheaper parts (valve springs, etc).

[johnjzjz]

Originally Posted by Blackwizard222

Trick flow makes decent budget heads but do not buy them assembled. If you go that route make sure to buy bare heads and have a reputable machine shop install brand name products on them. Most of the time when you purchase assembled lower end heads they will be put together with cheaper parts (valve springs, etc).

in my shop we have found the low end head makers when selling un assembled haeds turn out to be seconds -- in the past 3 /4 years every one we had that came to the shop -- turned out to be all over the place - seats, guide holes , even pushrod guide location not correct , dents in gasket areas , and yes if you get lucky and get a pair that is ok to completly re do --puting your own parts in is the deal, but buy the time you pay a REAL SHOP to fix them -- brodix track ones were in the money ball park -- jz

[Slow Z]

Competition Products sells Canfield heads for a really good price... They're under $1100 and if you go with a package deal you can get heads, intake, and valve covers for around $1300 shipped. They can also assemble them with any springs you want, any valves, whatever.

I bought a set of 195's for my 11:1 383 build-up. The quality and assembly is great right out of the box. They come very close to AFR 195 flow numbers and I bet with a little bit of cleaning up they'd meet/surpass them.

[Blackwizard222]

Originally Posted by Slow Z

Competition Products sells Canfield heads for a really good price... They're under $1100 and if you go with a package deal you can get heads, intake, and valve covers for around $1300 shipped. They can also assemble them with any springs you want, any valves, whatever.

I bought a set of 195's for my 11:1 383 build-up. The quality and assembly is great right out of the box. They come very close to AFR 195 flow numbers and I bet with a little bit of cleaning up they'd meet/surpass them.

Canfield makes a nice head.

On a side note, Im starting a budget 383 for my el camino. right now it has a mild 350 (small cam, 2.02 heads) I was thinking of going with an eagle rotating assembly with a cast steel crank, any other kits u know of for around that price that may be better? Im planning on making around 400hp so it doesnt need to be extremely stout, I dont need a forged crank or anything.

[NJSPEEDER]

Originally Posted by Blackwizard222

Personally, if your going with a relatively tame street/strip motor, why go with aluminum top dollar heads? You can make great power with a set of gasket ported aluminum vortecs and a decent sized voodoo or XE cam. I would go with an XE274 cam, the 284 is a bit large for decent low end torque in a daily driver. I have heard the xe274 run and it is a mean sounding cam. Make sure u have enough compression though or youll just end up with a motor which sounds badass but is a dog.

274 and 284 have similar idle charactoristics, can run with similar stall(although cody is currently manual trans shopping), and provide similar vacuum. the difference is basicaly just the longer power band.
with an engine with a solid bottom end that will be a part time cruiser, take the extra bit of power at the same price. better to have it and not use it very often than to not have it and wish you did

[Blackwizard222]

i found a block 350 truck block 4 bolt main for a nice price! woohoo! Already magged and hot tanked .030. ARP main studs and I found a sweet deal on a forged storker crank. Ill be starting my build soon Im thinkin on going with a crower cam...

[johnjzjz]

Originally Posted by Blackwizard222

i found a block 350 truck block 4 bolt main for a nice price! woohoo! Already magged and hot tanked .030. ARP main studs and I found a sweet deal on a forged storker crank. Ill be starting my build soon Im thinkin on going with a crower cam...

just a thought but in my shop we found the conversion to studs to hold the crank in place -- with the higher torque value used with them changes the main cap circle and causes the top and bottom of the bearing to close its oil clearance -- about a 1/2 thousand and the bearing haves egg shape -- we line hone the crank block holes with caps in place and new torque value to correct -- but a special T chain might come into play as well -- as the distance between the crank and the cam end up closer -- in the shop you use they have already done all of this but maybe not -- jz