Straaaaaaange Cavalier problem....

[unstable bob gable]

This is one a the strangest situations I've ever had w/ a car...

OK, 03 Cavalier, 2.2 Ecotec. Approx 26K miles on it, stock except for CAI and plugs. I was driving it home from work on Xmas day, and it started to cut out on me. Engine didn't want to rev, was sputtering, and "Traction Off" light came on. I limped it off the Parkway, and was all set to call AAA. But I let it run for a little bit, and I was able to get it up and running to highway speeds. So, I thought maybe it was a "random" incident w/ bad gas or something. I was at about 1/2 a tank, so I filled up w/ premium on the Parkway, and all seemed fine. OK, was fine for a couple of days, but started to do the same thing again when I got to around half a tank...hmmm, pattern showing here? I limped it to work, and went out on my lunch break and fired it up. Seemed to run OK, and "Traction Off" light went out. So, I drove it to Jersey City and filled up, and it ran fine all the way home. I figured I'd try for a "quick fix," so I replaced the fuel filter, and also replaced the ignition module in case it was "spark" related. Welp, the car ran fine again until, you guessed it, I got to half a tank. I pulled off, filled it up, and it was fine. This time I figured I'd run it close to half a tank, then add some alcohol to dry up any water that may have accumulated in tank. Well, on the way to work I got to half a tank, so I added the alcohol, and got it to work w/o any incident. On the way home it started acting up again, and this time it threw a code :
P0171....System too Lean (Bank 1). I was able to limp it off the Parkway, and I stopped and filled it up, and cleared the code. So, now I'm stumped....it only acts up @ half a tank, and if I had water or contaminated fuel in the tank I would think it would have gotten mixed up with the fresh gas and or alcohol by now and have gotten run through. I guess I can just continue to fill up before half a tank and live with this problem forever, but I'd rather take care of it...any thoughts?

[sinistr]

i sort of had the same thing happen and it was a tiny welittle hole in a rubber line connected to the fuel pump .. took me forever to figure it out , i kept throwing a lean code but not all the time . don't know just throwing it out there .................

[Pampered-Z]

Next time can you take off the gas cap and let the car sit for 15-20 minutes and see what happens? do you have a fuel pressure tester? I chased a somewhat simular problem on the 88 cav. and it turned out the screen on the pump was dirty and collapsing which choked off the fuel flow. Car ran fine on short trips, but over a 30 mile run the car would act up, let it sit for 1/2 hour is would be fine for another 30 miles. I replaced all kinds of crap then put a FP gauge on and found I was loosing pressure.

[maroman88]

yea i was guna say maybe sumthing with the strainer on the pump, once it gets half empty maybe it got hung up or dirty?

[unstable bob gable]

I'm through jacking around with it. I have an "aftermarket" warrenty on the car, so tomorow I'm gonna hit a couple of shops to see if they will honor it. Guess the proof of the pudding will be after the tank comes down.

[bubba428]

sounds like a hole in the fuel pump pick-up tube.

[unstable bob gable]

Welp, I dropped it off @ the shop today. Let's see what they find...

[unstable bob gable]

Quote from the shop: "We are chasing a ghost!"
Here we f'n go...
I'm hitting E bay and buying the first cheap 6 cylinder AMC that pops up. It's pretty bad when your main ride AND your back up ride are in the shop!!!

[Pampered-Z]

You can dupliate the problem and the shop can't? That just means they don't want to do warranty work!

How about this, Fill the tank, record the gallons and drive the car and monitor the milage until the problem occurs. See if you can verify that it is a fuel pick-up problem when you get to a certain amount of fuel, maybe the gauge is just FUBAR?

[BonzoHansen]

So it always kicks in at ½ tank? If you have less then ½ tank, is the problem there immediately (cold and/or hot) or do you have drive a while? I’m just wondering if something is heating up & crapping out.

Originally Posted by Pampered-Z

You can duplicate the problem and the shop can't? That just means they don't want to do warranty work!

How about this, Fill the tank, record the gallons and drive the car and monitor the milage until the problem occurs. See if you can verify that it is a fuel pick-up problem when you get to a certain amount of fuel, maybe the gauge is just FUBAR?

Usually with aftermarket warranties, the shop can charge as usual and the warranty company reimburses the owner whatever the amount they agreed to/feel like. It isn’t like a dealer warranty with reduced flat rate hours. The shop is under no onus to work with the warranty rates, they can choose how much they want to play along. The customer can also choose to go elsewhere for repairs. So a shop doesn’t care about the warranty aspect.

Jobs like this are often no-win for the shop. Speaking in generalities and not about Bob, there are few customers that like paying flat rate for troubleshooting. Not saying Bob would complain, again, I am saying how 999 of a 1000 customers have reacted in the past and why a shop may shy away from things like this. Overhead & payroll costs money. And the busier the shop or the less familiar with the customer they are (that is a big key), the less likely they want anything to do with it.

Example. What is R&R on the fuel pump, 2 hours or so? I think we’d all start there (after we already spent 2+ hours chasing codes & troubleshooting charts and checking fuel pressure). Pull the tank & inspect. What if they don’t see anything definitive? Maybe change the pump, internal hoses & sock while you’re there since you are already paying the labor. If it doesn’t fix the problem, now what? The customer isn’t going to want to pay 3+ hours labor & parts (~$450+) for poor results. The shop can’t send that stuff back or recoup the lost time. There is a different view from the other side of the counter. Just adding some perspective.

Bob, if they can’t figure it out, post back. One of us can help you pull the tank and replace the pump, sock & hoses. If you can make it to the end of the month, I’ll find some time if this 99 shell is gone out of my garage.

And so goes my lunchtime. LOL

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

So it always kicks in at ½ tank? If you have less then ½ tank, is the problem there immediately (cold and/or hot) or do you have drive a while? I’m just wondering if something is heating up & crapping out.



Usually with aftermarket warranties, the shop can charge as usual and the warranty company reimburses the owner whatever the amount they agreed to/feel like. It isn’t like a dealer warranty with reduced flat rate hours. The shop is under no onus to work with the warranty rates, they can choose how much they want to play along. The customer can also choose to go elsewhere for repairs. So a shop doesn’t care about the warranty aspect.

Jobs like this are often no-win for the shop. Speaking in generalities and not about Bob, there are few customers that like paying flat rate for troubleshooting. Not saying Bob would complain, again, I am saying how 999 of a 1000 customers have reacted in the past and why a shop may shy away from things like this. Overhead & payroll costs money. And the busier the shop or the less familiar with the customer they are (that is a big key), the less likely they want anything to do with it.

Example. What is R&R on the fuel pump, 2 hours or so? I think we’d all start there (after we already spent 2+ hours chasing codes & troubleshooting charts and checking fuel pressure). Pull the tank & inspect. What if they don’t see anything definitive? Maybe change the pump, internal hoses & sock while you’re there since you are already paying the labor. If it doesn’t fix the problem, now what? The customer isn’t going to want to pay 3+ hours labor & parts (~$450+) for poor results. The shop can’t send that stuff back or recoup the lost time. There is a different view from the other side of the counter. Just adding some perspective.

Bob, if they can’t figure it out, post back. One of us can help you pull the tank and replace the pump, sock & hoses. If you can make it to the end of the month, I’ll find some time if this 99 shell is gone out of my garage.

And so goes my lunchtime. LOL

Conference call much??

[unstable bob gable]

I didn't give enough info about the "chasing a ghost" line. The car started acting up as soon as Gary [the mechanic] took the car for an initial test drive. But then the car cleared up and ran fine, he said he ended up putting 18 miles on the car w/o it acting up again. His concern was with me being w/o a car while they ran through the process of trying to figure out the problem, but I told him to keep the car as long as they need to figure it out. I got a call from them today that they traced it to the fuel pump, and I should have the car back Thursday at the latest.
They had no problem w/ dealing with my aftermarket warrenty. I really like these guys...at one point they had a picture of my AMX being used as the screen saver on their computers, so how can ya not like that?

[Tru2Chevy]

Glad to hear that they have figured out the problem Bob....MPG Cavy will be back on the road soon enough.

- Justin

[unstable bob gable]

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

Glad to hear that they have figured out the problem Bob....MPG Cavy will be back on the road soon enough.

- Justin

Thanks, man. Yeah, I miss my Moondisc'd baby.

[BonzoHansen]

Woot!