Pissed about SLP's Firehawk G8?

[BonzoHansen]

The level of stupid in this thread is high.

IMO, using the name Firehawk on the G8 is stupid. It shows a lack of creativity and probably misses the target audience of the car anyway (just like GM did, I guess, based on the dismal sales). They could have done better. Of course to me this just punctuates the idea that the Firebird name is dead forever. And PMD is on life support.

The car in the poster is cool. I’d buy a used one.

Oh yeah, using the name Malibu is no big deal either, it was just a people mover. And “SS” was originally an appearance package. Get over it.

My $.02 from someone that has owned all gens. No mullet here. GFY

[Knipps]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

The level of stupid in this thread is high.

QFT.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by ShadowHawk

Anyone ever tell you that you make an art form out of being a douchebag? You're like the Van Gogh of Assbaggery.

Anyone tell you to shut the **** up?

I didn't say I was a bigger enthusiast than you,

Hey asshat, I never said you were anything. I asked you what makes OTHER people 10x more of an enthusiast then me?
I only used you in saying that you are crying because of what I said about 4th gens.
I never made a personal attack reguarding your faith as an fbody fan, unlike you made such an attack on me. So who's the douchebag?

I said THEY are 10x the enthusiast you are, because they recognize a bad idea when they hear one and stand up to it instead of sucking on GM's *** like you always do.

Oh, so let me get this straight.
By saying everything GM makes sucks makes that person a 10x more enthusiastic then me about cars?
I, in fact, do "stand up" to GM products. I spent 2 hrs with REAL ENTHUSIASTS in Indy talking to John Fitzpatrick, Cheryl Piltcher and Al Oppenhiser, the 5th gen's production and marketing managers about what I think is wrong with the car along with several other people.
I have ripped plent of times into GM with articles I have writen over at GMI.
Do I defend certain GM cars based on stupid and factless accusations? Yes I do.

They can never do wrong in your eyes, no matter how much they make a mochary of everything F-body. They could throw SS badges and Firehawk logo's on every econo-car known to man for all you care!

GM isnt throwing Firehawk badges or logos onto everything. SLP is. THIS is why Im "****-sucking" GM because you, the uninformed douche bag that you are, are blaiming GM again for something that is NOT GM's call.

1,000,000,000 posts and being a founding member of some web based forum means jack to me. It doesn't make you any better an enthusiast than any other person here. At least everyone else steps up when they see a stupid idea.

I never said that I am a "better enthusiast" then anyone here. I never claim to be the greatest Fbody fan ever. And I never said that putting the Firehawk name on a G8 is a good or bad idea. I just said I didnt care, because its SLP's name to do with what they want. If a bunch of Firehawk owners want to complain about it, so be it.
Calling a FWD coupe a Camaro is one thing, giving a supercharged 460hp+ RWD, performance sedan the name "Firehawk" is a different animal. If you want to bitch and complain that much, fine. But IMO...its not THAT big of a deal.

And instead of trying to understand why your fellow community members are upset you say "**** it, their car's dead anyway"?! Why? Beceause you're a jackass. regardless of anything, if either the Firebird or Camaro name came into question, we'd all stand up, because we're F-body guys. You? As long as it doesn't desecrate your precious Camaro **** it, right?

Why does it make me a jackass? Cause you got upset by yet another thing I said? Did I hurt your feelings?
If you were a TRUE fbody fan, you wouldnt have sold the 5th gen up the river because "it looks different from the concept" in which you seem to have a vision problem. You gave it no chance, you have seen, felt, or driven nothing to even give you a remote idea on the ability of this car, yet you seem to have all the answers. Yeah, you would stand up for the Fbodies alright...right into bad mouthing it.

To everyone else there's very little difference here between them using the Camaro name or the Firehawk name. Are you telling me if they put the Camaro name on a 4 door, even if it was RWD, you wouldn't be totally pissed?? Because I'll call ******** on that right now.

I would be pissed, but its not like the called the G8 "Firebird Trans Am Firehawk"
I had the same reaction when everyone cried about teh GTO's "lack of style".
It didnt lack style...it was very nice looking. What it lacked was reproduction 1967 body pannels. Still doesnt mean that it was a less of a car.

You are comparing, like everyone else, a company owned name that is going to be used on a product sold by another company.
Where people pissed that "Loud Mouth" exhausts were available for Mustangs and Chargers?

I will agree that teh Firehawk name is just odd to put on the G8. It doesnt mesh well. But if people are gunna have a hissy fit over a badge, and not base any sort of opinon on the car itself, then you might need to step away from the keyboard for a while.

Stop being an asshat. You keep calling me out in stupid threads cause I said your precious 4th gens werent pretty.
Get over it.

[BigAls87Z28]

Let me put it another way.

Should ORIGNAL Firehawk guys, the ones that own 1 of 25 RACE PREPED Firehawks with custom built engines, ZF 6spd manual transmissions, along with a **** load of other equipment that they bought be pissed because all a 4th gen Firehawk was wheels, hood, and some stickers?
Understand the history of Firehawk before anyone starts making comments about certains people's enthusiasim.

[Mike]

you mean the firestone one that had the name before slp was a company? lol

[BigAls87Z28]

Ahaha..yeah, you could put on a mad tyte Firehawk tires on it.
It DOES have Bridgestones OE.

[NJSPEEDER]

I think the summary of Shadowhawk's position can go something like this WHHHAAAAA I WANT IT THIS WAY!!!! WHAAAAAA!!!! YOU SUCK IF YOU DON'T AGREE!!!! WHHHAAAAA

lol

Seriously man. I don't know what you are like in the real world, but in this thread you are coming off as a complete jackass. Name calling and basing assumptions about what gens and models were or weren't good based solely on opinions is just weakening your position more and more every time you post.

SLP decided to recycle the name plate but this time actually put some performance back behind it. Golly gee heck, won't all those BMW M-fans be disappointed when they are staring at G8 taillights.

[BigAls87Z28]

To anyone who hasnt, I suggest you schedual a ride in a G8. Especially if you plan on getting a Camaro.

[firehawk1120]

um just as an aside, SLP can't do **** to any GM vehicle without GM's approval. When you order the cars you order it through a GM dealership. It's not like you can order a base T/A and then send it to SLP and have them convert it to a Hawk. SO, in essence yes GM is signing on to the name. Just wanted to point that out to all you saying it's not GM's idea.

and there is a lot of immaturity in a thread about opinions, which are like a$&holes we all have them

[BigAls87Z28]

I didnt get the full lay out, but from what I understand, Firehawk packages will be sold through a dealer, not done by SLP prior to hitting dealers like the SS, WS6 and Firehawk cars prior.

Its not GM's idea. SLP and GM have zero ties anymore. Its a dealer package at best. Still doesnt matter, GM does not own the rights to the name of Firehawk. Firehawk is a SLP product.

[NastyEllEssWon]

either way....

the way i see it is, the firehawk namesake was a top of the line firebird. a sick firebird (thirdgen models). a meaner bird. a hawk. a firehawk. it doesnt make sense to use the namesake on the g8.

they should keep the GTX badge alive from the grand prix since the g8 is more along the lines of a grand prix than a firebird.


say what you guys want about second gens. are people forgetting that second gens include one of the nicest looks in history. THE SPLIT BUMPER Z.


oh and i dont understand why 2nd gen owners and 4th gen owners dont get along. dont you guys both realize that the styling for the 4th gens come from two different cars...

lt1 styled after the thirdgens
ls1 styled after the split bumper 2nd gens





the bottom line is that its the same when the gto came out. its also the same with the new camaro. i got over the fact that the camaro is no longer an fbody. people will get over the fact that SLP is using the firehawk name.


the only way to get your point across to a company like this is to NOT BUY THE CAR. if you dont own it then you dont have a problem.

btw al is right though. slp already drug the hawk name through the mud with the lt1 style 'packages' and then once again with the ls1 packages. those were just flashy firebirds (as if the firebird wasnt already flashy enough).


long live the camaro

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

lt1 styled after the thirdgens
ls1 styled after a catfish

Fixed! (couldn't resist)

- Justin

[SteveR]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Ahaha..yeah, you could put on a mad tyte Firehawk tires on it.
It DOES have Bridgestones OE.

The car was named after the tire, as was the Comp T/A

[firehawk1120]

Al, what I was getting at is the ordering process comes from a GM dealership so they are the ones who willing accepted SLP's marketing. They could have said no give it another name.

Dealerships RARELY, if ever ordered SLP cars and had them on the lots everywhere I went they were special order and you have to pay for the SLP parts up front the dealership won't shell out the money and SLP won't do the work without being paid.

Both of my hawks had to be ordered and the only reason the 2nd one was less of a hassel is because Jay Fisher knows what they are. I had to explain it to the first dealership and they had to call their local rep to verify what the hell I was talking about.

SLP sucks.

[BigAls87Z28]

GM doesnt own any dealer.
How can GM tell another company who is independent of GM what to do to make money?
GM has no control over SLP marketing or selling of products designed, built and sold by SLP through dealers.

I would compare this to if SLP owned the rights to IROC, and they made an IROC Impala. People would be like wtf, but I wouldnt be too broken up about it.

[SteveR]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

GM doesnt own any dealer.
How can GM tell another company who is independent of GM what to do to make money?
GM has no control over SLP marketing or selling of products designed, built and sold by SLP through dealers.

I would compare this to if SLP owned the rights to IROC, and they made an IROC Impala. People would be like wtf, but I wouldnt be too broken up about it.

I have some experience in this area.

For a company to be able to sell a brand product at a dealer, they have to be accepted and certified by the manufacturer (GM) as an Aftermarket OEM. GM would have to certify SLP and approve their product. The reason other than the obvious for the certification is so that GM can verify the quality of the components in the vehicle as meeting minimum standards, because the cars are sold with a GM warranty and they don't want to sell a car that'll need more work than the base model it's based on. So GM does take an active role in the process. The dealerships are all franchises and although independent of the parent company, they still all report to the parent company (GM). SLP is free to approach any dealer with a contract to have them sell their cars, assuming SLP has met GM's approval process. Another area where GM is involved is that once the customer orders the car, the order does go to SLP. However, the order then goes to GM so that GM can build the car with the SLP VIN tag. The car is then shipped to SLP so SLP can do the modifications to the car and add their package (Dave The Prick, the guy in charge of SLP, didn't know this). That being said, GM still has to approve the concept. Even a car sold through an A-OEM has an effect on GM's image and they want to control that. Further proof that GM is involved to some degree is that GM asked SLP to debut the car at Indy. SLP may be an independent company, but they can't design and sell a GM car at GM dealerships without GM approval first.

[BigAls87Z28]

Yes, SLP is one of the few performance groups that is GM certified. Scott made a point in saying it.

Point still stands, SLP owns the Firehawk name, GM cant do much if in the end it will sell more G8's with performance equipment that GM didnt have to foot the bill for, Im sure they will be plenty happy to sell that.

I still think a lot of people are missing the bigger picture. We are focusing on the NAME and not the products.

I did get to ride in an awesome supercharged G8 GT that is a company car for this suspension company called Pedders. Peddersusa.com is thier site, and let me tell you what...this thing handled 10x better then a regular G8 GT,and thats saying a lot.
You can check out the G8 GT on Pedder's website.

[NastyEllEssWon]

gm should strip them of their certified status

slp stands for Sucks Little... yeah anyway

[SteveR]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Yes, SLP is one of the few performance groups that is GM certified. Scott made a point in saying it.

Point still stands, SLP owns the Firehawk name, GM cant do much if in the end it will sell more G8's with performance equipment that GM didnt have to foot the bill for, Im sure they will be plenty happy to sell that.

I still think a lot of people are missing the bigger picture. We are focusing on the NAME and not the products.

I did get to ride in an awesome supercharged G8 GT that is a company car for this suspension company called Pedders. Peddersusa.com is thier site, and let me tell you what...this thing handled 10x better then a regular G8 GT,and thats saying a lot.
You can check out the G8 GT on Pedder's website.

I agree, I'm not saying the product is a dumb idea or that it'll suck. I think the idea of a high output G8 is interesting. Not quite sure why they picked a non selling car to do it with, but thats their choice. I think the name choice is stupid, but what really pissed me off was the arrogance of that Dave The Prick guy at SLP that doesnt even know how his own company works. I guess i really dont understand why they chose the G8. Was it a request by GM to try and help a dying line? Like I stated before, if nobody's buying the 30k G8 at under sticker, why would they think anybody would by one for 10k more? Especially after this backlash? The A-OEM direct competition will be the Saleen Challenger, Roush Mustang, and Saleen Mustang. Like the SRT8 Charger, not too many people are buying into the four door sports car thing, so I see 99% of that buying segment going with one of the other choices. I mean, you can get a 2 door coupe making ridiculous power for the same amount of money, if not less. Dave The Prick said he doesnt care about the F-Body crowd or the current/prior Firehawk owners because SLP makes most of its money on Mustang stuff now. So he just alienated the Pontiac and Firehawk people, THE SAME TWO MARKETS HE'S TRYING TO SELL THIS NEW THING TO.

PS- and I'm not saying I dont like the G8, I think its a pretty cool car in general.

[BigAls87Z28]

Actually, G8 GT's are selling at 2x the rate of the 6.

[Savage_Messiah]

Originally Posted by ShadowHawk

Not to say they're all like this, but to the average self-important BMW/Benz owner the words Firebird and Camaro mean low-class. If you ask them we're all a bunch of rednecks. They buy BMW and Mercedes cars to make themselves feel like high class big shots, and no matter how you package it a Pontiac will never hit that market. It'll just never be "spohisticated" enough for them.

Sweet!

Myself and James (and others??) buy cars to make us feel all high-class and sophisticated, PLUS think that we're rednecks!!! We're high class rednecks!! Woohoo!!!!!

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Actually, G8 GT's are selling at 2x the rate of the 6.

So every month they sell 2000 G8s and 1000 G6s? PMD is all but dead, and SAAB, well, pull the plug.

SEPTEMBER 9, 2008 WSJ
Unpopular Models Slow Down GM
Low-Volume Sellers Eat Ad Dollars, Take Dealer Space
By SHARON TERLEP and NEAL E. BOUDETTE

(See Corrections & Amplifications item below.)

A few months ago, General Motors Corp. flooded the prime-time airwaves with commercials introducing the G8, a big, powerful sedan that is supposed to re-energize GM's Pontiac brand.

But the ad blitz hasn't had much impact. In August, GM's 2,712 U.S. Pontiac dealers sold only 1,915 G8s -- not even one per dealer.

GM has problems on many fronts, including high gasoline prices, falling truck sales and billions in losses. The G8 illustrates one problem that's often overlooked: The auto maker's lineup contains many vehicles that deliver barely any bang for the buck.

Consider the Saab 9-5 sedan. GM promotes its Swedish brand's smaller 9-3 sedan, but the midsize 9-5 gets little exposure and as a result draws little interest from shoppers -- or even dealers. At Saab of Troy, in suburban Detroit, a few 9-5s are in stock but none are in the showroom, where customers typically spend their time browsing. In August, GM sold just 198 9-5s nationwide.

Mark LaNeve, GM's top marketing executive in North America, said the additional costs of offering slower-selling models are "really very incremental" because most share parts with higher-volume models. The G8, for instance, is a version of a car that has been a strong seller for GM's arm in Australia. Yet auto analysts say slow sellers are a bigger drag on profit that GM acknowledges.

Ron Harbour, a partner at the automotive consulting firm Oliver Wyman, said each model, even if only a variation of another vehicle, requires some engineering effort. Producing models in small numbers lowers manufacturing efficiency. Every vehicle needs its own documentation, manuals and brochures. Dealers have to be trained to service each model and have to spend money to keep them in stock. And each vehicle needs a certain amount of advertising and promotion. "For every model, you've got some investment costs, and if you don't sell enough of them, you might not be able to cover the capital costs," Mr. Harbour said.

GM recently said it hopes to cut $10 billion in costs over the next 18 months. Frederick "Fritz" Henderson, GM's president and chief operating officer, has ruled out closing or selling any of GM's eight brands besides Hummer, which GM has put up for sale. But he hasn't ruled out getting rid of some of its slow-selling models.

Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC have made simplifying their model lineups a central part of their turnaround plans. Ford has sold its Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston Martin lines. People familiar with the matter have said Ford also intends to sell its Volvo division, although the company denies Volvo is for sale. Volvo offers eight models, all slow sellers. Chrysler dropped four slow sellers last year and has said it plans to eliminate a third or more of its remaining models. Mr. Harbour noted that foreign auto makers also have a few low-volume models. In August, Honda Motor Co. sold just 2,606 Element cross-overs in the U.S., and Nissan Motor Co. sold only 2,178 Armada sport-utility vehicles.

GM has trimmed some models, too. It folded its entire Oldsmobile division several years ago. And in the last few years, it has reduced the number of nameplates offered by its Buick, Pontiac and GMC brands, which are usually housed together at dealers, to 16 from 30. Nevertheless, 20 or more of the 60 models GM offers in the U.S. often generate sales of less than 2,000 vehicles a month. Another half dozen or so fail to break the 3,000-vehicle mark in some months. Some are luxury cars, like the Cadillac STS full-size sedan, or specialty models like full-size vans, which generate profit even at low volumes. But many are mainstream cars such as the Saturn Astra hatchback and Pontiac Solstice roadster that don't command premium pricing.

GM's trouble with slow-selling models is closely related to another problem: weak brands. Pontiac, Buick, Saturn and Saab are such small players in the U.S. market that whole swaths of car shoppers don't even consider them. Each of those four brands was outsold in the U.S. market in August by Kia Motors Corp., the Korean maker that specializes in low-priced cars.

John Casesa, a veteran auto consultant and partner at Casesa Shapiro Group in New York, said GM may have trouble eliminating some of its low-volume models because some dealers carrying Saabs and Pontiacs need every model to stay in business. "Even if you have a model that's not making money [for GM], it might live on to allow showrooms to stay open," he said.

Even dealers that are in the black can struggle to move certain models. In May, Neil Norton Cadillac-Pontiac, a dealership in Joliet, Ill., ran TV ads pitching the Pontiac G5 compact, the kind of car many consumers are looking for with gas at $4 a gallon. But even with the extra advertising, he ended up selling only three, the same as the previous month. (Overall, the G5 has been a slow seller for GM.) Last month, the dealership sold about nine, better but hardly a barnburner. "It's still an important car for us," owner Larry Norton said. "We need to have a small car to offer our customers."

Corrections & Amplifications

General Motors Corp. sold 30,271 Chevy Impala cars and 55,765 Chevy Silverado trucks in August. A chart that accompanied a previous version of this Marketplace article about a GM slowdown listed the Impala as the company's top-selling car, but didn't indicate the more popular Silverado is a truck.

[NastyEllEssWon]

pontiac motors is dead. everything that pontiac makes theres already a nicer chevy version out there. bring the g8 platform in as the lumina SS, the sport ute as the El Camino. the g5 already has a moniker as the cobalt. the g6 can be rebadged as a z26 (beretta name cant be used any longer). all their larger vehicles have a buick, gmc or chevy counterpart. the solstice looks horrible compared to the sky. the only car that pontiac had worth producing was the Firebird, and thats gone.

maybe pontiac should finally bring out their much loved banshee out on the corvette platform Ala XLR.

[BigAls87Z28]

According to our sources over at GMI, 2014 is the end of Pontiac. Pontiac will get Chevy rebadges from here on out, the G8 and Solstice will ride out on thier current platforms, and then that will be the end of Pontiac.

Pontiac will most likely be replaced by Saturn at PBG dealers as Saturn wants more dealers, and GM wants less brands.

[BonzoHansen]

CART MASTER: Bring out your dead! [clang]
CUSTOMER: Here's one.
DEAD PERSON: I'm not dead!
CART MASTER: What?
CUSTOMER: Nothing. Here's your ninepence.
DEAD PERSON: I'm not dead!
CART MASTER: 'Ere. He says he's not dead!
CUSTOMER: Yes, he is.
DEAD PERSON: I'm not!
CART MASTER: He isn't?
CUSTOMER: Well, he will be soon. He's very ill.
DEAD PERSON: I'm getting better!
CUSTOMER: No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment.
CART MASTER: Oh, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
DEAD PERSON: I don't want to go on the cart!
CUSTOMER: Oh, don't be such a baby.
CART MASTER: I can't take him.
DEAD PERSON: I feel fine!
CUSTOMER: Well, do us a favour.
CART MASTER: I can't.
CUSTOMER: Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? He won't be long.
CART MASTER: No, I've got to go to the Robinsons'. They've lost nine today.
CUSTOMER: Well, when's your next round?
CART MASTER: Thursday.
DEAD PERSON: I think I'll go for a walk.
CUSTOMER: You're not fooling anyone, you know. Look. Isn't there something you can do?
DEAD PERSON: [singing] I feel happy. I feel happy.
[whop]
CUSTOMER: Ah, thanks very much.
CART MASTER: Not at all. See you on Thursday.
CUSTOMER: Right. All right.
[howl]
[clop clop clop]
Who's that, then?
CART MASTER: I dunno. Must be a king.
CUSTOMER: Why?
CART MASTER: He hasn't got **** all over him.