Seomtimes you just have to pull out...

[shane27]

http://tsn.ca/auto_racing/story/?id=...headlines_main

i assume this is big news in the F-1 world

[sweetbmxrider]

damn. and so it begins.

[V]

families are fun

[NJSPEEDER]

It is big news, but I can't say it is a big surprise. Honda's development of their competition team and car has failed to meet any of the time table goals from teh day they started. This is not something that Honda is used to as they usually step into a form of motor racing and start winning with in a few years and start grabbing championships in 5 years or less.

I know there were rumblings through the middle of the season that Honda was pretty much tired of trying to play catch up with both the cars and the moving target rules that the FIA has made into a game over the last few years.

It has been a burr in Honda's collective saddle from day one. Shortly after Honda unveiled their car, the FIA announced that there would be a new engine formula for the following season, Honda got their chassis working, all of a sudden there is a ruling that mass dampers are illegal, Honda gets into a tire testing program this year, FIA says they are changing tires next year.

F1 has become a very overpriced series. Honda is the first of the "giants" to fall, but they will not be the last. There is also a rumor of ING not renewing their $500mill + incentives sponsorships.

[Blacdout96]

Im glad to see Honda leave. Toyota should pick up their pieces and start walking out the door as well. Compared to McLaren, Renault, and Ferrari, unless your in either of those rides, hell even the Sauber BMW's are somewhat competative, your nothing more then a field filler. In my eye's F1 has become too expensive to be a competative sport. With all this electronic, areodynamic, half million dollar expense for teams, it makes you wonder how F1 just spun out of a competative sport to being nothing more then a bragging rights of how much they blew on their cars that year. I like F1.....to a point, but its always the same, where they qualified, is where they finish, so whats the point of racing if you already know the outcome. Im not saying bring it to NASCAR specs where the cars are cookie cutters, but I think drivetrain's for these cars should be built by an outside source. I know we had this discussion last month, but as far as Im concerned, if you dont like it, leave the sport, because NO passing or actual "racing" ever takes place in the races. I talked to Sam Posey about this, and he agrees with me that F1 is out of control, so somethings gotta give, and needs to be done.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

Im glad to see Honda leave. Toyota should pick up their pieces and start walking out the door as well. Compared to McLaren, Renault, and Ferrari, unless your in either of those rides, hell even the Sauber BMW's are somewhat competative, your nothing more then a field filler.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[NJSPEEDER]

If F1 wants to encourage passing they should just allow ground effects. The cars mess up each others wing born aero package too much to get close to each other. Reduce wing surface area and allow real under pans and the cars could tail gate like an NYC cab driver without any ill effects.

They also need to get away from having so many standardized parts. It is insane that the highest form of racing in the world spends so much money to stop teams from having traction control and anti locks when they have become standard features on half the cars sold in the world.

/rant

[Blacdout96]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

If F1 wants to encourage passing they should just allow ground effects. The cars mess up each others wing born aero package too much to get close to each other. Reduce wing surface area and allow real under pans and the cars could tail gate like an NYC cab driver without any ill effects.

They also need to get away from having so many standardized parts. It is insane that the highest form of racing in the world spends so much money to stop teams from having traction control and anti locks when they have become standard features on half the cars sold in the world.

/rant

GASP!!! are you saying Tim the FIA should take away a rule they made?! are you a mad man? lol seriously though I agree with that too, but they are afraid its gonna turn into the ground affects era, where the cars were scary fast with minimal wings on the outside, but then again, isnt the sport already fast enough as it is you know?arent they hitting around 4g's at certain points? also thats why the Turbo era was taken down....which that era started right after the ground affects era got banned, they were getting scary fast. As far as im concerned, they need to take some drastic measures to make it fun to watch again. I remember a time when NASCAR got so bad, that 80% of that years wins were based on pit stops, didnt matter how well you did int the race, you had a bad pit stop, you were done. I do have to say oone question, do those little winglets on the F1 cars today really make that much of a difference on the cars?

If they are gonna work with the ground affects again, FIA needs to mandate a rule where the teams must give them 1 car for them to test that they are runnign for the year, they cannot make ANY areo changes through the year to their cars. the FIA shoudl test the car, see how much downforce, drag, etc it makes, and they should have rules on minimun/maximun downforce they can make so clean them up a little.

I think this 1.8 liter turbo deal is sounding pretty interesting. maybe the cars will become a little slower, cause i know the FIA will mandate a maximum amount of boost they can push, also with teh cars being slower, they will have to choose weither to have less downforce to be faster, or have more wings to get them to handle better, and maybe they will bring back full slicks, not those treaded style they run now. And 1 last thing. you think they will allow the treams to run ALS? ( anti-lag system) like in the rally cars. Ferrari made a system like that during the turbo era, which is really the first ALS to be used.

[NJSPEEDER]

The problem with turbo motors is that they are about impossible to police in any constructive way. Just look at the CamAm era, Jackie Stewart commented plenty of times about them only knowing that the Porsche 2 liter made over 1500hp because that is where the dyno stopped. lol

If they want to lower parts consumption and there fore costs by default, they need N/A motors with a compression limit and a max TB size. If they really wanna be mean they can put them back onto commercially available fuels instead of the wonder fuels that each team has specially formulated now.

While they are at it they can command materials for engine and diveline construction. The specialty unobtanium stuff they use now is insane. There is no reason for it, you can make a plenty strong aluminum and sleeve engine, no need for inconel oil passage inserts and metals I can't even pronounce to make pistons out of.

The rules just need to be made practical again. The FIA has gotten so hung up on having a cool image that they have forgotten that the racing is supposed to be about development and image for the manufacturers, not the sanctioning body.

[NJSPEEDER]

I am trying to find it again, but there was someone who posted on one of the forums once about some kind of ground effects limit formula.

From what I remember of it, he layed it out as no side skirts(no more Mario/Players cars) with a modified flat pan. Basically you are allowed X amount of negative volume and some small Y amount of ducted surface area from the pan.

I will keep looking for it. The guy had all the abnormal shape volume formulas and everything. I just can't remember where I saw it.

[Blacdout96]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

I am trying to find it again, but there was someone who posted on one of the forums once about some kind of ground effects limit formula.

From what I remember of it, he layed it out as no side skirts(no more Mario/Players cars) with a modified flat pan. Basically you are allowed X amount of negative volume and some small Y amount of ducted surface area from the pan.

I will keep looking for it. The guy had all the abnormal shape volume formulas and everything. I just can't remember where I saw it.

When you find it, post it up asap, we could of used that this year for the Historics, we showcased the lotus type 79!

[1972LT1]

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

The problem with turbo motors is that they are about impossible to police in any constructive way. Just look at the CamAm era, Jackie Stewart commented plenty of times about them only knowing that the Porsche 2 liter made over 1500hp because that is where the dyno stopped. lol

If they want to lower parts consumption and there fore costs by default, they need N/A motors with a compression limit and a max TB size. If they really wanna be mean they can put them back onto commercially available fuels instead of the wonder fuels that each team has specially formulated now.

While they are at it they can command materials for engine and diveline construction. The specialty unobtanium stuff they use now is insane. There is no reason for it, you can make a plenty strong aluminum and sleeve engine, no need for inconel oil passage inserts and metals I can't even pronounce to make pistons out of.

The rules just need to be made practical again. The FIA has gotten so hung up on having a cool image that they have forgotten that the racing is supposed to be about development and image for the manufacturers, not the sanctioning body.

I've always seen F1 as innovators of tech. If you want to limit them set up rules for 3 classes. ie. if you're naturally aspirated the max.engine displacement is 5.7 liters, 8, 10, or 12 cyl.
A supercharged 6 would be a max of "x" displacement
A twin turbo 4 would be a max "x" displacement
I like options. I don't wan't to see F1 become the cookie cutter car eurotrash version of NASCAR.

[jims69camaro]

immediately following the press conference, Honda CEO Takeo Fukui performed seppuku.