T-56 vs. 4L60E - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

Clark · 03-03-2009, 10:21 PM

What is the power rating difference for each transmission? I'm looking into getting a 4th gen Firebird and I want to know if it's worth waiting for a deal on a 6 speed to open up, if the power rating is substantially higher. It'd be a daily driver, so I wouldn't want to go crazy with upgrading it. Mostly suspension and bolt ons are what I have planned, but I'd like to have that piece of mind that the transmission won't blow on me if I take it to the track here and there.

Thank you.

NJ Torque · 03-03-2009, 10:48 PM

Welcome.

Well, an A4 with a larger converter(3600 seems to be the best option) will hold up well... as well as a T56 is a strong trans.

The rear is the issue with these cars, the small 7.5" ring gear is very prone to breakage.

vipergtx500 · 03-04-2009, 02:58 AM

ive owned both, an A4 with 2.73s and an M6 with 3.42s. I feel like my M6 has more power and it is also a lot more fun to drive. Stock for stock the M6 is faster if your a decent driver but with a high enough stall converter the A4 can be just as faster if not faster

WildBillyT · 03-04-2009, 08:37 AM

Both can be built to handle large amounts of power. It all depends on your budget.

If I were you I'd wait for a T56 car to pop up. I commonly hear people talking about how they wish they had the six speed but only rarely does somebody say that they wish they had an auto.

LTb1ow · 03-04-2009, 09:16 AM

Autos are more consistent, and you can have one built for around 1400 good for 10s.They also eat more horsepower, so if you are looking for a dyno queen, go M6.

Clark · 03-04-2009, 11:53 AM

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm gonna be looking at a 1999 Auto Firebird in Langhorne for 9,990. I'd hate to pass up a good car for a good price just cause it has an auto.

http://www.paulburnsbuckscounty.com/...24de67e248753f

98tadriver · 03-04-2009, 12:03 PM

auto- more consistent, fun with a nice sized stall converter, easier on the 10bolt

M6- fun to drive, chirps the tires in 4 gears, harder on the 10 bolt, dynos higher, and with the right driver, it can sound automatic ; )

NJSPEEDER · 03-04-2009, 12:35 PM

Both will last as long as the way you use themallows. If you go around grabbing gears hard in a T56 you will bend up shift forks and wreck synchros like it is the thing to do(*cough RON cough*), if you regularly hold a 4L60E against the convertor and practice launches you will heat up the fluid and eat bands or just shatter the sunshell.

Both can be built to handle a substantial amount of power, the manual is usually much much cheaper to rebuild and repair though.

Also, take you daily driving into consideration. If you do a lot of inner city or traffic commuting, having a 6spd can get really old really fast. By the same token if you have the joy of a country road or more suburban commute, the manual can be a lot more fun for a "spirited" drive on a nice day.

Like Torque said, the rear is really the first weak link in the drive train. If you get into going to the track regularly, it has a better chance of lasting a while behind the auto.

sweetbmxrider · 03-04-2009, 02:33 PM

as everyone has said, both have positives and negatives. get what you would prefer to drive everyday and enjoy.

Pampered-Z · 03-04-2009, 03:49 PM

Both trans are strong enough to handle a fair amount of mods. It should really just come down to if you want a manual or auto. it's not like your giving up a bunch with a manual if you are only occasional racer.

I'd raced for 20+ years and all but two of them I ran manuals. I put in the auto, then switched back to a manual because the car was just more fun the race with a manual!

98tadriver · 03-04-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

Both will last as long as the way you use themallows. If you go around grabbing gears hard in a T56 you will bend up shift forks and wreck synchros like it is the thing to do(*cough RON cough*), if you regularly hold a 4L60E against the convertor and practice launches you will heat up the fluid and eat bands or just shatter the sunshell.

Both can be built to handle a substantial amount of power, the manual is usually much much cheaper to rebuild and repair though.

Also, take you daily driving into consideration. If you do a lot of inner city or traffic commuting, having a 6spd can get really old really fast. By the same token if you have the joy of a country road or more suburban commute, the manual can be a lot more fun for a "spirited" drive on a nice day.

Like Torque said, the rear is really the first weak link in the drive train. If you get into going to the track regularly, it has a better chance of lasting a while behind the auto.

lol that ron fella sure sounds like an animal

alamantia · 03-05-2009, 05:18 PM

Im just stating facts here - Autos are gay

NastyEllEssWon · 03-05-2009, 09:46 PM

i settled last year. i was looking for a six speed trans am and found an awesome deal for an auto camaro. (low miled ls1 for 5k). i ultimately ended up selling that car a year later to buy what i originally wanted.

the whole time i had the camaro i found myself wishing it was a six speed. the cool factor of an auto v8 car wears off in like 2 weeks when you get bored of putting it in D for dummy

Clark · 03-06-2009, 01:03 AM

Thanks guys. Tuesday I'm looking at that A4 that I posted earlier.

There's also an M6 around that area that I want to look at too. 6k less miles but also about $2k more expensive. But it's worth it. Car already has the SLP lid and an exhaust system in it (not to mention the 6spd). I'll see if I can get the dealer down a little. He wants $11,990 for it and its got 59,000 miles. How does that price sound?

I might have some wiggle room cause I'll be trading in my 2005 chevy cobalt too. I owe 6500 on it and they will probably offer me in the ballpark of 4k or something. I'll have $2k to put down to make up the difference though, effectively putting my monthly payment around what it is now at the price he has listed.

98tadriver · 03-06-2009, 09:27 AM

thats a nice car. is that a 01-02 ?

Clark · 03-06-2009, 09:55 AM

I think its an 02

WildBillyT · 03-06-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark

I think its an 02

Even better.

Clark · 03-06-2009, 11:49 AM

What do you guys think about the price of $11,900? Do I have room to work with the dealer since I'd be trading in a car too?

98tadriver · 03-06-2009, 12:38 PM

i kbb'd it. kbb lists it for a lil over 12k in excellent condition. i didnt check trade in value though.

NastyEllEssWon · 03-06-2009, 10:01 PM

its clean. id rub him down a little bit more if your paying in cash. if your financing your probably not gonna budge him.

the mileage is right. the year is right. the model is good but for the price it should be a ws6 imo.

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/1050452181.html

i came close to buying that car. its sweet. and in your range. check it out

Clark · 03-07-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon

its clean. id rub him down a little bit more if your paying in cash. if your financing your probably not gonna budge him.

the mileage is right. the year is right. the model is good but for the price it should be a ws6 imo.

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/1050452181.html

i came close to buying that car. its sweet. and in your range. check it out

That is a sweet car. Unfortunately I'll be financing though. With the way things are right now, if I can talk the dealer down to around $10k - $11k with my trade in, I'll be paying roughly what I am now monthly for my Cobalt.

NJSPEEDER · 03-07-2009, 12:26 PM

If the dealership is asking nearly 12 I would thinkyou could talk them down to 10-10.5 pretty easily.

Clark · 03-07-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJSPEEDER

If the dealership is asking nearly 12 I would thinkyou could talk them down to 10-10.5 pretty easily.

Think so? It's been on the lot over a month...

Oh well, we'll find out today, I'll be heading down there in about a half hour to check it out.

Be back with details...

Clark · 03-08-2009, 12:07 AM

Ok guys, so I went all the way out to Conshohocken PA, and I ended up not liking the silver Firebird they had. Some of the lights were faded/cracked, there was terrible clutch whine when you depressed the clutch (friend speculated it was a throwout bearing) and the car had been kinda riced out with underglow neon under the car and tinted windows. And it definately was not as clean as in the photos. The only thing the car had going for me was the flawless leather interior

With that said, I DID look at a black 1999 A/T Firebird close by that had 65,000 miles and was 100x less sketchy than the silver one. Only thing that kills me is the cloth interior ftl. But it has been garage kept/taken really great care of because the paint/body/weatherstripping is flawless from what I can tell. Guy has been trying to sell it for a few months now and is asking $9,980 for it. He said he might he might be able to take $1500 off of it for me if I were serious about buying it.

NastyEllEssWon · 03-08-2009, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark

Ok guys, so I went all the way out to Conshohocken PA, and I ended up not liking the silver Firebird they had. Some of the lights were faded/cracked, there was terrible clutch whine when you depressed the clutch (friend speculated it was a throwout bearing) and the car had been kinda riced out with underglow neon under the car and tinted windows. And it definately was not as clean as in the photos. The only thing the car had going for me was the flawless leather interior

With that said, I DID look at a black 1999 A/T Firebird close by that had 65,000 miles and was 100x less sketchy than the silver one. Only thing that kills me is the cloth interior ftl. But it has been garage kept/taken really great care of because the paint/body/weatherstripping is flawless from what I can tell. Guy has been trying to sell it for a few months now and is asking $9,980 for it. He said he might he might be able to take $1500 off of it for me if I were serious about buying it.

im swapping in a black leather interior into my new trans am. the stock grey leather seats are in good shape minus the drivers seat. ill be putting them up for sale as soon as the new interior goes gets here and goes in. door panels too

just something to kick around in case you end up getting a cloth interior one