Losing faith in American cars...

[SeanC]

I have always been into American cars, and wouldn't hear anything about European/Imports being better. Well, I've been driving my Aunts BMW 3 series for the past couple of days, and i'm slowly falling in love. The car handles better than anything I have ever felt, and it has a very respectable amount of power and is very fun to drive. Along with all the luxuries, the car is probably the nicest feeling car i've ever felt. I've been thinking about my Trans Am back home and am becoming disappointed in it. The handling is not even comparable...it has more body role than it knows what to do with. Yes, it is much torquier, but considering the BMW i've been driving is a fairly base model, I can only imagine what the m3s and m5s feel like.

I decided to post this rant after hearing the new advertisement for the Buick Regal, that says something about being "German Engineered". This commerical frustrates me beyond belief....Why can't we say that the new Buick Regal is "American Engineered", and engineer something equal to what BMW or any other German manufacturer does? I've been told over and over that Germans are the best automotive engineers...What are we doing wrong!? I'm so tired of a barely having an argument against people that say American cars are crap.

Sorry for the rant, but this is really bothering me. Dont get me wrong, I am still a die-hard American car lover, but its really bothering me that i'm starting to question why I am...Comments/opinions?

[LTb1ow]

*waits for GM fanboii to come brainwash you with lots and lots and lots of trivia*

[fmybody]

they are too different classes of car...

BUTTT i will say this my e30 bmw odometer is stuck at 256k miles and that has got to be at least 50k miles ago... i drive over 75 miles daily on the biotch and since ive had it (prob 6 years) ive only had to replace a water pump a fuel pump andddddd thats it lol

i know its old as hell but still bmw and still german engineered anddd still running strong

[madness410]

i drive for a company that lets me drive brand new mercedes, bmw's, jaguars, land rovers, smart cars, audis, any kind of cars you can think of.

but man, when i hop into an american car, a challenger, camaro, corvette, equinox, traverse, theres just something about it that all those other cars dont have. they are in a class by themselves almost...not in a bad way.

what year is the bmw if you dont mind me asking were you driving? if you are driving a brand new bmw of course its going to beat the crap out of a 7 year old trans am...handling, the ride, the luxuries there have been many technological advances since then.

[sweetbmxrider]

you said you are falling in love with a german car. gm says their car is german engineered. maybe they hope you take your love for germany and try it with an american taste?


i'd say compare that mid level beamer with a mid level caddy and see if it still sways you? i really don't know much though, just a rambler.

[12secondv6]

I used to thing American cars were great and nothing could beat them..... boy I was wrong.

I am gonna get tons of ***** by my post.... sorry guys n gals

I have had the following cars for 1 year leases
2003 Mercedes C230 coupe
2006 Mercedes E350 luxury
2007 Mercedes E350 sport
2007 Mercedes SLK280
2008 Mercedes ML320 Blutec
2009 Mercedes C300 4-matic luxury
2010 Mercedes C300 4-matic sport
2011 Mercedes C300 luxury

After putting tons of miles on them (highway, city, stop n go, and 1/4 mile racing) I really appreciate the extra quality, amazing technology, exceptional safety, and creature comforts that I cannot find in an American car.

Sure.... are there exceptions.... probably.... but even a lowly Mercedes C-Class is far superior than most american cars.


If you feel that european cars don't have the bark or power of american cars... I can understand that.

Bark.... I'll agree... you can't compare any european car's bark to the sound of a chevy big block with open headers or a mustang with flowmasters.

Power though....Mercedes has their high performance division that ranges in horsepower from mid 450 to 600+ and torque from 465 to 738

I do miss driving my trans am/ firebird because they look sooo damn agressive and bad @ss.... but the benz's are far superior in all aspects that are important to me - safety technology braking etc

While the resident GM fan boy will chime in.... I guess I'm the resident Mercedes fan boy... and I had to give my 2 cents

[BigAls87Z28]

They say German engineering because...well..its a German car, built in Germany. The Opel Insigna was the 2009 European Car Of The Year, and now that car is being brought over here as the Buick Regal till production shifts to Oshawa, Canada next April.

German cars, American cars, and Japanese cars all have their own strengths and weaknesses.
Comparing one of the worst made GM cars of the last decade to a luxury car is pretty off.
I got to drive the Camaro RS and then two weeks later I drove the CTS coupe.
Even with the CTS being heavier, still drove much better, steering was better, etc etc. But the Camaro drives worlds better then your Trans Am.
The 3 series IS the benchmark car for everyone to compare to. From the base 328i to the M3, its the basis of everyone's entry level luxury cars.
.

[LTb1ow]

American cars made in germany!!!s)??? The horror!


That's taking away amerkan jobs!

[spina74]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-PII2rSLVo

[BigAls87Z28]

I just still find it funny that you are basing current American cars off your Trans Am?
Its this mentality that still hurts the domestics. "Oh I had/know someone who had a (insert 10+ year old car 5+ years ago) and that was a big heap of ****!! So American cars are ****!"

[LTb1ow]

Even the grdeat one can't chabge atht image, who wants some kfc?

[qwikz28]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

They say German engineering because...well..its a German car, built in Germany. The Opel Insigna was the 2009 European Car Of The Year, and now that car is being brought over here as the Buick Regal till production shifts to Oshawa, Canada next April.

German cars, American cars, and Japanese cars all have their own strengths and weaknesses.
Comparing one of the worst made GM cars of the last decade to a luxury car is pretty off.
I got to drive the Camaro RS and then two weeks later I drove the CTS coupe.
Even with the CTS being heavier, still drove much better, steering was better, etc etc. But the Camaro drives worlds better then your Trans Am.
The 3 series IS the benchmark car for everyone to compare to. From the base 328i to the M3, its the basis of everyone's entry level luxury cars.
.

all this is true. as much as I love the 3 series, it still has its faults though. ask n54 owners about fuel pumps and such. Like Al said, every car has their weaknesses. To be honest though, I think all the brand origins are slowly becoming similar. American cars are becoming more competitive and the Koreans are kicking butt all day now and Toyotas are killing people.

I don't know what my next purchase would be. I can't say for certain it will be American though. Although the CTS is pretty ill.

[BigRocsFirebird]

I fear WWIII is on it's way in this thread.

[BigAls87Z28]

I know you guys like to paint me as a GM-Only guy, but I understand what is what.

My point is that if you are basing your option of ALL American cars off your Trans Am, or any car designed and made before the turn of the century.

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Everyone has their own tastes but jeez you can't compare an old performance vehicle to a new luxury sedan in any way haha.

I will say the 3 series rides/handles very well for a four door after riding in my firend's.

[qwikz28]

Our frame designs are very old. The 4th gen was really only a major update to the 3rd gen, rather than a completely new model. So not only is it old by today's standards, it was outdated when it came out (assuming you have a 4th gen of course).

[SeanC]

First, I didn't mean to start WWIII with this thread hahaha. Yes, comparing my Trans Am to a fairly new 3 series is obviously a terrible comparison (and it wasn't really my intention). I unforunately havn't had the opportunity to drive American cars like the CTS, but I'm beginning to understand why people rave about "German cars". I am extremely impressed with the 3 series...

How can I argue against people that claim German engineers are the best in the world, and that also say Americans just can't keep up? I'm in school as a mechanical engineer, and one of my huge motivations is to kill this idea that American automotive engineers just arn't as good. I guess its hard to compare German cars with American....BMW, Mercedes, etc are all high-class luxury cars, while GM/ford/etc produce a wide range of cars. I just feel like every single car German companies put out is top-notch, while some American cars are mediocre at best...I just feel like were always trying to keep up instead of being in the lead. You rarely see a test to see if a German car can keep up with an American one. Instead, the American car always seems to be the underdog compared against the mighty German car (for example - read a magazine article the other day to see if the new 5.0 could keep up with the Porche GT2). It just always seems as if were the underdog.....

[LS1Hawk]

A couple years ago I saw a statistic from one of the auto analysts that 30% of 2008 CTS owners were former BMW, Mercedes and Lexus owners or leasees, mainly because the CTS performed just as well and had a lot of features standard that the imports you would have to pay extra for. Also, I want to say back in 2007, I was invited to a Ride and Drive event held by Road & Track. The three manufacturers were Cadillac, BMW and Lexus. Each had a sedan and crossover there and you were allowed to take all of them out on a course they had set up. Many of the people there felt the Cadillacs (STS and SRX) were just as good or better than the BMW and Lexus counterparts.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

German cars, American cars, and Japanese cars all have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Yup. And you hear about good and bad examples of each. Ever heard of the first gen iDrive? LOL. I don't think the USA makes the best cars in the world, however they are the best bargains in the world, and don't deserve their rep.

Furthermore, looking at a $25-30k 10 year old Trans Am and comparing it to a newer car (really any of them, not just a BMW) is a mistake. Different time periods with different stuff. Parts get worn and old.

In my opinion, pretty much all of the Cadillacs are up there with the BMWs. I have been impressed with every new model I ride in.

[Slow-V6]

2003+ Mercedes, BMW vrs 1993-2002 Firebirds!!

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

2003+ Mercedes, BMW vrs 1993-2002 Firebirds!!

I was really referring to the OP.

But regarding your post, how old exactly is the chassis design of the 4th gen cars? Go by that. By the 4th generation, the F body was a zombie platform. There, I said it.

[Slow-V6]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

I was really referring to the OP.

But regarding your post, how old exactly is the chassis design of the 4th gen cars? Go by that. By the 4th generation, the F body was a zombie platform. There, I said it.

Ok. I know it was outdated. Thats the major reason why they stopped making them. My only thing is why not compare it to a Caddy then compare Luxury cars to a F-body?

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

My only thing is why not compare it to a Caddy then compare Luxury cars to a F-body?

right? why not compare it to a citation or chevette? at least compare it to a car in the same price range. A new M3 starts around $55,000.

[Blacdout96]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

I was really referring to the OP.

But regarding your post, how old exactly is the chassis design of the 4th gen cars? Go by that. By the 4th generation, the F body was a zombie platform. There, I said it.

You mean a 35 year old chassis design, and really 20 years with swappable suspension parts (82-92)using 100 year old rear end technology (solid rear axle) a bad weight distribution, weak rear, trans, and squeeky body/ interior panels, and weight issues? nah dude, thats good for another 10, maybe 20 years tops. lol

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

You mean a 35 year old chassis design, and really 20 years with swappable suspension parts (82-92)using 100 year old rear end technology (solid rear axle) a bad weight distribution, weak rear, trans, and squeeky body/ interior panels, and weight issues? nah dude, thats good for another 10, maybe 20 years tops. lol

"Cat hump where there ain't no cat" FTW