Phillies looking to enter in the Cliff Lee bids - Page 2 - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

LS1Hawk · 12-14-2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrrmike

lee might have a good career record vs the yanks, but halladay doesnt... and lee and hamels were both on the world series team that lost to the yanks...

yanks will pick up grinke as a consolation prize, and be just fine...

Honestly, I would take a fungo bat over Cliff Lee. He's very hittable and has had a history of injuries. His ERA in the World Series was 6.94 against a team that could not hit. The Phils may have just acquired a pitcher that's starting to tail off.

I'm not sure if I'd want Greinke either. Last season he was not impressive, and he was basically pitching with the same team behind him from his Cy Young season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbrrmike

russel martin is also a big pickup, as they had horrible play from their dh's and their DEFENSIVE catching last season.

Yankees now have A LOT of depth at the catcher position. They can easily go out and get a good pitcher. I wouldn't be surprised to see Montero get traded for a really good arm before the season starts.

Slow-V6 · 12-14-2010, 12:30 PM

Thats right Lee is past his prime. He is what 32? Its all good. We dont have to face Lee, Halladay, Hamels, or Oswalt and they are 4 of the best pitchers in baseball. Thats fine with me. Maybe Lee could get some help or tips from Andy Petite or Roger Clemons on how to prolong his carreer and still be a great pitcher.. They were both Yankees and I assume won alot so there must be a secret?

LS1Hawk · 12-14-2010, 12:50 PM

I said he could be starting to tail off. It made no sense for the Yankees to invest 7-8 years in a pitcher that's 32. Hamels and Oswalt don't strike fear into batters the way Halladay or Lee do. Both haven't been that great since '08. Although Hamels could still be coming into his own as he's only been in the league 5 seasons. I don't think there is a real big secret to Clemens or Pettitte. The 'roids are really what kept Clemens playing, and Pettitte has been able to adjust his mechanics to remain a decent pitcher since coming off them.

BonzoHansen · 12-14-2010, 01:03 PM

Now imagine being a Texas Rangers fan (*cough*cough*cbr*cough*cough*). He turned down more $$ from Texas too.

BigAls87Z28 · 12-14-2010, 01:18 PM

I think philly fans should just be happy that they got him over NYY but it could backfire big time.

Slow-V6 · 12-14-2010, 01:32 PM

These are last years stats for the Phillies pitching staff..

Halladay had a 2.44 ERA, 9 complete games, 250 innings, 219 SO, 33 walks

Oswalt had a 2.76 ERA, 2 complete games, 211 innings, 193 SO, 55 walks

Hamels had a 3.06 ERA, 1 complete game, 208 innings, 211 SO, 61 walks

Kendrick had a 4.73 ERA, 1 Complete game, 180 innings, 84 SO, 49 walks

Blanton had a 4.82 ERA, 0 Complete games, 175 innings, 134 SO, 43 walks

Now add Cliff Lee into the mix..

Slow-V6 · 12-14-2010, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

I think philly fans should just be happy that they got him over NYY but it could backfire big time.

I think the NYY fans should wonder why he didnt want to play for the Yankees for more money and more years? If thats baseball heaven then why play for the Phillies for less money and less years?

Frosty · 12-14-2010, 01:39 PM

http://www.crossingbroad.com/2010/12/r2c2-elfd.html

Al, any long, expensive deal can backfire....look at the Giants with Zito.

Slow-V6 · 12-14-2010, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosty

http://www.crossingbroad.com/2010/12/r2c2-elfd.html

Al, any long, expensive deal can backfire....look at the Giants with Zito.

That is great.. Can you believe this Tony? I still cant believe it..

Frosty · 12-14-2010, 01:47 PM

I'm in shock and excited but the big bats still need to hit next year.

BonzoHansen · 12-14-2010, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slow-V6

I think the NYY fans should wonder why he didnt want to play for the Yankees for more money and more years? If thats baseball heaven then why play for the Phillies for less money and less years?

Fixate much? Lol So he did not want to play in NY. That is his prerogative. It appears he did not want to play in Texas either given he turned down more money from them too. Plenty of people have walked past NY and Philly for that matter. Greg Maddox comes immediately to mind. I think he spurned both teams at one time or another, I know he turned down NY prior to signing with Atlanta. I know Glavin turned down Philly when he left Atlanta.

baddest434 · 12-14-2010, 02:33 PM

for the phillies. that is 1 hell of a starting pitching staff they have now. but they have won anything yet. i think lee is at his best against the yankees. alot of other teams have no problem with him. ask S.F. see ya in october

Frosty · 12-14-2010, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

Fixate much?

The NY brass has the attitude that they're NY, they can buy and sell anyone and that everyone dreams of playing there. Maybe some of that is true but throwing ridiculous $$ at someone didn't work. I love how the media up in NY is spinning it too saying how the Yankees didn't really want Lee and that Lee made a mistake because the Phillies are old....yeah because the Yankees are all spring chickens.

baddest434 · 12-14-2010, 03:27 PM

hell this yankee fan wanted him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

maybe if the douche bag fans didn't spit on his wife during that game last year. bet his wife made his mind up for him

Mike · 12-14-2010, 03:27 PM

FOR THE LAST TIME. THE PHILLIES ARE PAYING HIM MORE PER YEAR. and if he meets all vesting options the final dollar amount will be THE SAME as the yankees offer...

STOP SAYING HE TOOK LESS MONEY

Blacdout96 · 12-14-2010, 03:38 PM

Nothing like playing for a team in Philly. The best fans, willing to back up their teams using fists, and the occasional broken bottle ( or cold preztel from the guy with the shopping cart in the parking lot, saying they are fresh, yet it's about 40 degrees out) The rich history, and above all, the fact knowing if you win a championship ( if is key word) You worked for it and earned it, not bought it.

/stirs pot

Mike · 12-14-2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

Nothing like playing for a team in Philly. The best fans, willing to back up their teams using fists, and the occasional broken bottle ( or cold preztel from the guy with the shopping cart in the parking lot, saying they are fresh, yet it's about 40 degrees out) The rich history, and above all, the fact knowing if you win a championship ( if is key word) You worked for it and earned it, not bought it.

/stirs pot

right because they dont have the highest payroll in the national league

Blacdout96 · 12-14-2010, 03:52 PM

I don't care about payroll when it comes to the whole team, but when you pay one dude, not a whole team, just one dude 1/4 of a billion, yes with a b, no, not a typo, sorry, but you have too much money.

Mike · 12-14-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blacdout96

I don't care about payroll when it comes to the whole team, but when you pay one dude, not a whole team, just one dude 1/4 of a billion, yes with a b, no, not a typo, sorry, but you have too much money.

its a shame that contract came from texas... the yankees just took it over

BonzoHansen · 12-14-2010, 04:45 PM

The a-rod contract sucks and it is all the work of the Yankees now once he opted out.

I guess that as of last May Ryan Howard had the second-highest annual salary in baseball is irrelevant, huh?

Mike · 12-14-2010, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

The a-rod contract sucks and it is all the work of the Yankees now once he opted out.

I guess that as of last May Ryan Howard had the second-highest annual salary in baseball is irrelevant, huh?

it is not all the work of the yankees, there is no logical way they could have offered less. the texas contract started a domino effect then arod winning the mvp on his opt out year kept the dominos falling

NastyEllEssWon · 12-14-2010, 07:08 PM

lol god i love to watch yankee fans cry and make claims before and after being spurned. its fantastic. i love how 90 percent of fans were touting how they were gonna have the best rotation in baseball after they sign lee....now he's an over the hill bum thats past his prime and wasnt worth the money they were throwing at him.

BonzoHansen · 12-14-2010, 07:45 PM

where is the crying? who said they were going to have the best rotation ever? why are you making things up?

baddest434 · 12-14-2010, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

where is the crying? who said they were going to have the best rotation ever? why are you making things up?

yeah why?

and don't forget we still have burnett

yes that was*sarcasm*

BonzoHansen · 12-14-2010, 08:10 PM

Let's look at some of the great staffs of history. First is one that Bill remembers all too well

1954 Cleveland Indians
111-43 (yes, 111 wins)
93 wins between their regular starters

Code:

		W  	L  	ERA  
Early Wynn 	23	11	2.73
Mike Garcia 	19	8	2.64
Bob Lemon 	23	7	2.72
Art Houtteman 	15	7	3.35
Bob Feller 	13	3	3.09

Lost World Series (4-0) to New York Giants

When your team piles up 111 wins, it's inevitable that the starters are going to pile up impressive W-L records. But the wins were deserved: Garcia, Lemon, and Wynn finished 1-3-4 in the league ERA standings, and 1-3-4 in adjusted ERA+. Lemon was first and Wynn third in complete games, and Garcia tied for the AL lead with five shutouts. Their combined ERA was 2.86, compared to a league average of 3.72.

This was an old staff, with an average age of 32, but who wouldn't take an older staff with three future Hall of Famers (Wynn, Lemon and Feller)? The starters got hammered when the Giants swept them in the World Series, but with the Indians' hitters mustering only nine runs, even their best efforts might have been doomed.