Armed man in police standoff

[JL8Jeff]

Interesting, it's around the corner from me about 3/4 of a mile away. I think Squirrel and/or Evil90SS is even closer.

http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...tandoff_i.html

[WayFast84]

The other day Edison had a bank robber get shot 3 times and then the robber pulled the trigger on himself when police closed in. People are nuts these days but I'm sure it's always been like this and I just never noticed.

[WildBillyT]

Yup. Some guy did a murder/suicide next to the Wegman's in Bridgewater earlier this year. Crazy.

[madness410]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Yup. Some guy did a murder/suicide next to the Wegman's in Bridgewater earlier this year. Crazy.

that was a botched armed robbery at a jewelry store if I remember correctly.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by madness410

that was a botched armed robbery at a jewelry store if I remember correctly.

Yup, sorta. I think the robber knew the guy's daughter or something?

[r0nin89]

The guy brandishes a gun at the cops and they didnt waste him? Why....?

[Mike]

Originally Posted by r0nin89

The guy brandishes a gun at the cops and they didnt waste him? Why....?

because having a gun, and aiming said gun in a threatening manner towards the police are two different things

[zraffz]

Originally Posted by cbrrmike

because having a gun, and aiming said gun in a threatening manner towards the police are two different things

I don't understand. The second I saw a stranger with a gun, my heart would sink. If that gun was pointed in any direction other than at himself my guy instinct would be to shoot.

But then again, I am not a cop.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by zraffz

I don't understand. The second I saw a stranger with a gun, my heart would sink. If that gun was pointed in any direction other than at himself my guy instinct would be to shoot.

But then again, I am not a cop.

so a guy walking out of the woods with a hunting rifle in one hand and a couple turkeys in the other hand would what?

[V]

try being in a combat zone and not being able to shoot at a local carrying an AK, its very unnerving.

[maroman88]

similar story where i work

http://www.northjersey.com/news/crim...us_office.html

[Squirrel]

yeah jeff, matt lives down the street, my parents house is near the school as well

[BigAls87Z28]

Yeah, was shocked that NJSP was tweeting about it today. Almost a blow-by-blow.

[WayFast84]

Originally Posted by zraffz

I don't understand. The second I saw a stranger with a gun, my heart would sink. If that gun was pointed in any direction other than at himself my guy instinct would be to shoot.

But then again, I am not a cop.

Training and more training.Have you ever fired a gun before? What are your feelings about them? Just curious. It comes off like you never fired a gun and expect only police officers to have them.

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by WayFast84

Training and more training.Have you ever fired a gun before? What are your feelings about them? Just curious. It comes off like you never fired a gun and expect only police officers to have them.

Thats cause guns kill people and cops should be the only ones who should have them really.

[r0nin89]

Originally Posted by cbrrmike

because having a gun, and aiming said gun in a threatening manner towards the police are two different things

But shouldnt the rampant public endangering pursuit weigh in on a police officers judgment as to where someone like that waving a gun around is more than likely going to proceed?

I mean I know theyre semi isolated on a farm but if I was a cop and saw someone in that situation take arm after a highspeed chase like that in front of me and fellow officers and be drawn and firing so fast it wouldnt even be funny.

I know its not as cut an dry as that but tell me is there something wrong with the scenario of "We were engaged in a dangerous high speed pursuit. The suspect showed zero discretion for his own, the officers, or public life around him. Once pulled over the suspect produced a firearm as police approached. In response we drew our weapons and ordered the suspect to surrender and drop the weapon, he refused, we opened fire"

Originally Posted by LTs1ow

Thats cause guns kill people and cops should be the only ones who should have them really.

I hope thats sarcasm cause if its not I guess its McDonalds fault people are fat then huh?

[WayFast84]

Ronin: fortunately part of being a police officer is being able to control your emotions. Think about all of the problems caused by officers thinking they saw a gun and killing someone on their wedding day or holding a wallet. Cops are people and people make mistakes but if you cant think clearly when the adrenaline is running its not a good line of work to be in these days.

Thankfully many officers can think clearly and absolutely save many lives by not shooting at the first site of a gun.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by r0nin89

But shouldnt the rampant public endangering pursuit weigh in on a police officers judgment as to where someone like that waving a gun around is more than likely going to proceed?

I mean I know theyre semi isolated on a farm but if I was a cop and saw someone in that situation take arm after a highspeed chase like that in front of me and fellow officers and be drawn and firing so fast it wouldnt even be funny.

I know its not as cut an dry as that but tell me is there something wrong with the scenario of "We were engaged in a dangerous high speed pursuit. The suspect showed zero discretion for his own, the officers, or public life around him. Once pulled over the suspect produced a firearm as police approached. In response we drew our weapons and ordered the suspect to surrender and drop the weapon, he refused, we opened fire"





I hope thats sarcasm cause if its not I guess its McDonalds fault people are fat then huh?

if he grabs a gun and runs AWAY from you, as this situation seems, they saw him run into the woods with a gun, you do not have legal cause to use deadly force. you have to have reasonable belief that there is immediate threat to yourself or another human.

if he grabs his gun and starts running towards a mall or school, its a different situation.

[zraffz]

Originally Posted by cbrrmike

so a guy walking out of the woods with a hunting rifle in one hand and a couple turkeys in the other hand would what?

That's a retarded example. If that hunter walked out of the woods of a state penitentiary work zone, my gun would still be drawn.
Any place where a gun is illegally (such as a government piece of property) would not get a positive reaction from me.

Originally Posted by WayFast84

Training and more training.Have you ever fired a gun before? What are your feelings about them? Just curious. It comes off like you never fired a gun and expect only police officers to have them.

Nope I've never in my life fired a handgun... they do not interest me. Grew up handling shotguns, rifles and AR15s/Minis.

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by zraffz

That's a retarded example. If that hunter walked out of the woods of a state penitentiary work zone, my gun would still be drawn.
Any place where a gun is illegally (such as a government piece of property) would not get a positive reaction from me.



Nope I've never in my life fired a handgun... they do not interest me. Grew up handling shotguns, rifles and AR15s/Minis.

Uh, any piece of state property that is designated wildlife preserve, one can hunt on, and last time I checked, that requires a fire arm of sorts.

So, you are gonna draw on any guy coming of the wood with a firearm?

The 2nd amendment is tarnished by idiots.

[Mike]

They pulled up right behind him, he got out of the car and aimed the gun at himself and walked into the woods. I actually just spent the last half hour talking to him, so I'm not guessing based on halfassed newspaper reports

And you pick apart my example based on situational facts, but I used that example because you said you would pull your gun in all situations. So if you can be broad so can I

[r0nin89]

Originally Posted by cbrrmike

They pulled up right behind him, he got out of the car and aimed the gun at himself and walked into the woods. I actually just spent the last half hour talking to him, so I'm not guessing based on halfassed newspaper reports

And you pick apart my example based on situational facts, but I used that example because you said you would pull your gun in all situations. So if you can be broad so can I

Was that directed at me?


I find your response to my example perfectly logically. As you said no one knew the actual scenario but obviously you do given the circumstances.

[Mike]

No ronin not directed at you

[79T/A]

try being in a combat zone and not being able to shoot at a local carrying an AK, its very unnerving.

God bless you for that one. I could only imagine.

But shouldnt the rampant public endangering pursuit weigh in on a police officers judgment as to where someone like that waving a gun around is more than likely going to proceed?

You would think so, but no. Remember Rodney King? EVERYONE in law enforcement does. Now, before everyone jumps on me for providing this example: I DO believe that there was definitely a point where the beating should have been over. I also know what it's like to roll around on the ground with someone stronger than me and under the influence of unauthorized pharmaceuticals. That little number happened after an EXTREMELY high speed pursuit and King did in fact resist arrest. But that didn't justify beating him that badly, let alone killing him.

I know its not as cut an dry as that but tell me is there something wrong with the scenario of "We were engaged in a dangerous high speed pursuit. The suspect showed zero discretion for his own, the officers, or public life around him. Once pulled over the suspect produced a firearm as police approached. In response we drew our weapons and ordered the suspect to surrender and drop the weapon, he refused, we opened fire"

Perfect paragraph, provided this gets added into it: "...he refused, AND POINTED THE WEAPON AT OFFICERS/CIVILIANS, we opened fire." Also, chances are, as many cops around him as there most likely were, if ONE of them fired...MOST of them would have, so there had better have been justification for all of the rounds he would have received.

I agree; it sucks, but it is what it is. And while I'd still rather be tried by twelve than carried by six, I still gotta have a home to go home to afterwards, and in this letigious society, well...yeah.