Ak-47

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by BigRocsFirebird

yeah not to much spray since nj can't have fully auto or burst. but theres a way to shoot the gun and use the recoil to shoot it like a fully auto. its called Bumb fireing i've gotten really good at it. i could empty a 30 round mag under 4 seconds. or if your triger happy yes theres a lot of spray lol

Yeah, I was figuring you meant a full auto AK or other full auto rifle. Your point is still valid though.

[LTb1ow]

You should only be allowed to own the gun if its barrel is filled in and you only can throw the rounds at people.

[sweetbmxrider]

what if you had a .50 cal blow gun?

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

what if you had a .50 cal blow gun?

With poison darts???????

[j0n]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Gun and a spoon are tools.

Guns are tools, each designed with a specific job in mind. To say otherwise is incredibly ignorant.

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

I do want to see stronger regulation on the most dangerious guns. Assault rifles are not needed for home defense, IMO.

What, exactly makes one gun "more dangerous" than another? And while we're on the subject... WTF is an assault rifle? Assault is an action. A gun is an inanimate object. If you're referring to an AR or AK-type variant, they make fantastic home defense weapons. Most high-speed small diameter rifle ammo will fragment upon impact, stopping an assailant in his tracks, and minimizing the chance of injury to any bystanders.

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Ban the caliber and style of bullet.

WTF!? Ban a particular caliber and style of bullet? I'd imagine you are referring to hollow-point type ammunition, which has the LOWEST chance of collateral damage, and is the BEST choice for self defense. And caliber restrictions??? The fact that you even bring this up as an option shows how ignorant you are. I'd love to know what you think any caliber restriction will accomplish.

[BigRocsFirebird]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Yeah, I was figuring you meant a full auto AK or other full auto rifle. Your point is still valid though.

Yes sir

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by j0n

Guns are tools, each designed with a specific job in mind. To say otherwise is incredibly ignorant.

Specific? Kill would be specific I guess.

What, exactly makes one gun "more dangerous" than another? And while we're on the subject... WTF is an assault rifle? Assault is an action. A gun is an inanimate object. If you're referring to an AR or AK-type variant, they make fantastic home defense weapons. Most high-speed small diameter rifle ammo will fragment upon impact, stopping an assailant in his tracks, and minimizing the chance of injury to any bystanders.

I wouldnt call the AK a small diameter round, AK round is pretty big.
5.62 round is a bit smaller, and doesn't fragment as much as it just can be tossed around easier inside the body, reducing the bullet blowing through the body. As far as stopping power...AK has much better chance at stopping someone due to caliper, but also has a greater chance the bullet going through the body.

WTF!? Ban a particular caliber and style of bullet? I'd imagine you are referring to hollow-point type ammunition, which has the LOWEST chance of collateral damage, and is the BEST choice for self defense. And caliber restrictions??? The fact that you even bring this up as an option shows how ignorant you are. I'd love to know what you think any caliber restriction will accomplish.

Now you are putting words into my mouth. Hollow points are good for home defense, bad when they are used by the wrong people. Hollow point is designed to be a killer round, and when that round finds its way into the hands of the wrong people, bad things happen. The hollow point round does limit collateral damage, yes, but if the round is fired accidentally, or at the wrong person, you are looking at a world of hurt for that person, possibly an innocent bystander. There is no safe bullet, there is no safe gun.

You can go back and forth on this, and its why this is such a heated topic. How do you decide who is a good American that can enjoy the 2nd amendment right, and who do you say cant? How do you limit certain guns to reach the hands of bad people?
Limiting guns that have fully automatic capability, large capacity magazines, larger caliber rounds, etc etc are there to stop the flow of these types of guns to the general public.
Yes, criminals can get these types of guns, but that is not a great point for average Americans to have them. Average Americans are not law enforcement or military.

[sweetbmxrider]

but when the law enforcement or military isn't sleeping with us in our bedroom when someone breaks into our house unlawfully, our 2nd amendment tool is their to protect us.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

but when the law enforcement or military isn't sleeping with us in our bedroom when someone breaks into our house unlawfully, our 2nd amendment tool is their to protect us.

Right, but who would be slinging around an M60 or AK for home defense? I would guess that the best home defense weapon is one that requires the least amount of aiming and delivers the most amount of stopping power at a reasonable distance. I think a pistol gripped semi auto 12 gauge would be all you'd ever need. Like a Benelli M1 or even a SPAS 12. "It's for protection" only goes so far in my opinion.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

but when the law enforcement or military isn't sleeping with us in our bedroom when someone breaks into our house unlawfully, our 2nd amendment tool is their to protect us.

So you need a 100 round drum slung under an AK-47 to protect your house?
j0n talks about stopping power, and I would say a 1911 .45 ACP round will do way more at stopping people from harming you then a fully automatic machine gun would.

[LTb1ow]

12 guage straight to the face. I would take a nice shotgun over an ak for cqb

[crainholio]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

That sounds ultra-safe. Any ******* with a drivers license can get a gun. Maybe thats why Baltimore Police are one of the few citites still hiring police.

Maryland's carry permit process is as restrictive as NJ's, average law-abiding citizen can not get one.

So while any *** with a drivers license can buy a gun, only police and a very tiny few others can be armed in public.

Compare violent crime statistics from either NJ or MD to any state with non-discretionary issuance of carry permits if you're ready for an awakening.

[crainholio]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Right, but who would be slinging around an M60 or AK for home defense? I would guess that the best home defense weapon is one that requires the least amount of aiming and delivers the most amount of stopping power at a reasonable distance. I think a pistol gripped semi auto 12 gauge would be all you'd ever need. Like a Benelli M1 or even a SPAS 12. "It's for protection" only goes so far in my opinion.

SPAS-12 is a no-no here in NJ. Felony crime just for possessing it.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by crainholio

SPAS-12 is a no-no here in NJ. Felony crime just for possessing it.

I am aware of this. I think there are issues with pistol grip shotguns anyway, correct? However I can see the value in making those OK for home defense. It's full auto stuff for home use I don't get. Seems like there are much better options.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by crainholio

SPAS-12 is a no-no here in NJ.

That shotgun gives me a stiffie.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Frosty

That shotgun gives me a stiffie.

Side note. I want one really ****ing bad. Yes, it's a heavily used hollywood wonder gun like the Desert Eagle. I STILL want one.

[crainholio]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Ban the caliber and style of bullet.

So, lets just ban all guns? Easy enough....

I spent 8 years in the Army under oath to support and defend the Constitution...for a flock of sheep to give away their rights and mine along with them??

[Featherburner]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

So you need a 100 round drum slung under an AK-47 to protect your house?
j0n talks about stopping power, and I would say a 1911 .45 ACP round will do way more at stopping people from harming you then a fully automatic machine gun would.

Who said the 2nd Amendment has anything to do with protecting your house?

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by crainholio

I spent 8 years in the Army under oath to support and defend the Constitution...for a flock of sheep to give away their rights and mine along with them??

So, you would protect that same constitution if the 2nd was repealed?
Not that I want that, I just wanted to see the reaction.

[j0n]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Specific? Kill would be specific I guess.

There are probably twice as many gun-related contests as there are car-related contests. They don't count then I suppose? Do you also have a problem with my desire to hunt deer and pheasant? Would you rather bambi destroys the front end of your turd gen? How about hunting bear? I need a pretty beefy round to take down a bear.

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

I wouldnt call the AK a small diameter round, AK round is pretty big.
5.62 round is a bit smaller, and doesn't fragment as much as it just can be tossed around easier inside the body, reducing the bullet blowing through the body. As far as stopping power...AK has much better chance at stopping someone due to caliper, but also has a greater chance the bullet going through the body.

And this is why you should never, EVER, have anything to do with firearm laws and this state, country, or any municipality. An AK-type variant typically fires a 7.62x39, 5.45x39, or 7.62x54r round. Guess what? Two out of three of those are 1.5 times SMALLER in diameter than the .45acp you recommend yourself! Also, all 3 have way more stopping power, and guess what... at close range, THEY FRAGMENT! The "5.62" you refer to, is I suppose 5.56x45, is larger than the 5.45x39 fired out of a LARGE cross-section of ak-type rifles yet you allude to it being smaller, and it TOO has shown that in typical inside-the-home distances it will fragment. Use frangible ammo, and there is less than a 1% chance of collateral damage.

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Now you are putting words into my mouth. Hollow points are good for home defense, bad when they are used by the wrong people. Hollow point is designed to be a killer round, and when that round finds its way into the hands of the wrong people, bad things happen. The hollow point round does limit collateral damage, yes, but if the round is fired accidentally, or at the wrong person, you are looking at a world of hurt for that person, possibly an innocent bystander.

Remember the Hollywood shootout? How many cops and civilians were killed and wounded as a result of the bad guys having more powerful weapons than the cops? The instant that tragedy ended, police departments everywhere began equipping themselves with semi-automatic rifles to give them a fighting chance. The mere possibility that some "omfg scary hollow-point" bullet could make its way into the hands of a criminal makes it THAT MUCH MORE IMPORTANT that I have the ability to arm myself with the same firepower. On a similar note, if you fire a FMJ bullet accidentally, not only the person in the line of fire will be injured, but so will the person behind him, and behind him, etc etc.

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

You can go back and forth on this, and its why this is such a heated topic. How do you decide who is a good American that can enjoy the 2nd amendment right, and who do you say cant? How do you limit certain guns to reach the hands of bad people?

Anyone who is not a criminal is entitled to EVERYTHING listed on the Bill of Rights, without restriction. The second I commit a crime I lose those rights, but while I am a law-abiding citizen of the United States of America, the 2nd Amendment guarantees me the right to own and carry any gun I choose to have.

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Limiting guns that have fully automatic capability, large capacity magazines, larger caliber rounds, etc etc are there to stop the flow of these types of guns to the general public.
Yes, criminals can get these types of guns, but that is not a great point for average Americans to have them.

How many legally purchased fully-automatic weapons find their way into the hands of criminals? Any idea? Do you know how much they freaking cost, and how hard it is to get them? I'd wager my salary that less than .01% of legally purchased fully-automatic weapons in the United States ever made their way into the hands of criminal, let alone were used in a crime. Yet, illegally purchased guns continue to find their way into the hands of criminals. That reason alone is a FANTASTIC POINT for me to have them too.

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Average Americans are not law enforcement or military.

Exactly, and when seconds matter, the Police and Military are minutes, even hours away.

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Right, but who would be slinging around an M60 or AK for home defense? I would guess that the best home defense weapon is one that requires the least amount of aiming and delivers the most amount of stopping power at a reasonable distance. I think a pistol gripped semi auto 12 gauge would be all you'd ever need. Like a Benelli M1 or even a SPAS 12. "It's for protection" only goes so far in my opinion.

You're right Billy. That would be an excellent home-defense weapon, but in the state of NJ it would be illegal.

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

So you need a 100 round drum slung under an AK-47 to protect your house?

100-round drum would be fun for the range, and would be the only thing I would use it for. A 30-round magazine is what the AK and AR platforms were designed for, and would be my choice should I ever need to defend myself with one, however, it is illegal for me to own one in this ridiculous state.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by Featherburner

Who said the 2nd Amendment has anything to do with protecting your house?

Thats the argument being made here, that having guns is a personal protection thing.

[j0n]

Originally Posted by crainholio

I spent 8 years in the Army under oath to support and defend the Constitution...for a flock of sheep to give away their rights and mine along with them??

Thank you for your service. Just remember that even in this godforsaken lib-tard infested state there are still those of us who do not take freedoms for granted.

Originally Posted by Featherburner

Who said the 2nd Amendment has anything to do with protecting your house?

Amen. This discussion really is quite pointless, as the 2nd Amendment protects my right to own any firearm I want, regardless of reason.

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

So, you would protect that same constitution if the 2nd was repealed?
Not that I want that, I just wanted to see the reaction.

If that ever came to be, we would have a 2nd Civil War, and you can guess whose side I'd be fighting for.

[WildBillyT]

A 2nd amendment repeal would leave a lot of Americans extremely vulnerable.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Thats the argument being made here, that having guns is a personal protection thing.

They are making the argument for personal protection but it's also just not their home they'd be protecting.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

A 2nd amendment repeal would leave a lot of Americans extremely vulnerable.

...and if it happened, which I don't think it ever would, we as Americans would deserve everything we got if we let it happen.