Car shows - Debate Topic - NJFBOA - Home of New Jersey's Camaros and Firebirds

Blackbirdws6 · 07-11-2016, 09:56 AM

For those that attend car shows, do you get angry or frustrated if a new, mostly stock car wins an award?

BonzoHansen · 07-11-2016, 10:04 AM

Depends on the nature of the show and the nature of the award. Not angry or frustrated, probably since I don't care (nor expect) about trophies or such, but more of a SMH in some instances.

sweetbmxrider · 07-11-2016, 10:24 AM

Depends on the car I think and the reason for trophy.

LTb1ow · 07-11-2016, 10:48 AM

Yup, but as Bonzo said its more of a SMH kinda thing.

NJ Torque · 07-11-2016, 11:35 AM

I understand Brian's question and the reasoning behind it.

I think of it this way... All cars were once new. Whats the difference on a new Corvette/Mustang (in your case, Charger) but in 40 years if your car is all stock/original its wonderful/what cars shows are made up of now.

Jersey Mike · 07-11-2016, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackbirdws6

For those that attend car shows, do you get angry or frustrated if a new, mostly stock car wins an award?

You're biased, as am I.
However, if something incredible comes by that makes it move, and the owner has shown extreme attention to detail (I'm talking all the OCD nitpicking: Q-Tips, stoneless tires, flawless door jambs, blah blah blah) then I'm less bitter at the end of the day. Anyone can buy a car, drive it down the road and show it off. But if a guy takes an already amazing looking car & starts going OCD with detailing, then I'm okay with that owner getting recognition for his work. It's no longer equal to it's dealer-supplied counterparts at that point.

ar0ck · 07-11-2016, 01:12 PM

Geez, why do I feel like this thread was directed at me, after my Facebook post?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that competition at car shows i’m sure can be as fierce as any professional sport out there. And each and every judge's interests and perspectives can vary, but everyone wants to win – and that drive is what makes for some of the most stunning vehicles we as enthusiasts have ever seen. But I believe a line must be drawn. I want to say I don’t care because right now I have nothing worth showing off, but I can relate to that feeling of disappointment when a car like yours which you recently purchased right off the showroom floor takes home a large trophy just because it’s nice and new.

We all started somewhere when it comes to this hobby, and there's generations after generations who are struggling to build second hand cars on part time jobs and college budgets. Hell I’m a grown adult still trying to build a project in my parents driveway for pennies, it would hurt my feelings too that my personal pride and joy whatever it may be (which to many may just be seen as a polished turd) lost to a $60k car I can go to the dealership and oogle over that has nothing more than a driveshaft and meticulous detailing. I’m not trying to make a personal jab at you Brian, but in the end I think it is kind of messed up.

I’m not saying “ban all new cars from car shows” I get that with the exception of Concours-level shows which apply point systems, most of this stuff is subjective. Again I just don't think it adds up. Personally, if I saw that happen regularly at any car show I frequent, I would lose interest real fast. It boils down to having fair and balanced classes for attendees, not for the sponsoring car club’s membership and that includes even and fair period/era/decade classes.

BonzoHansen · 07-11-2016, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJ Torque

I understand Brian's question and the reasoning behind it.

I think of it this way... All cars were once new. Whats the difference on a new Corvette/Mustang (in your case, Charger) but in 40 years if your car is all stock/original its wonderful/what cars shows are made up of now.

I'll take this particular aspect. Any car still in production is not special. And car show winners cars should be special.

All else being equal (level of detail, etc) its usually it's hard to watch a 201x anything win over lets say an equally pristine special or interesting older car. Lets use a simple 2nd gen fuelie corvette as an example - not even a BBC car or any crazy variation, but not a plain jane either. Getting past the effort it takes to restore and maintain one, and the cost, the 2g vette is a flat out hall of fame car. and for good reason, it's one of the best looking American cars ever designed inside & out, a design that has not been diminished over the years. And it's been saved/restored/preserved. A brand new anything is a rookie and there lots of them. IMO the new car has not earned it's stripes that are generally earned over time, regardless of dyno numbers and all the current oohs and aahhhs. It's still a common car at this point, albeit the top of the common car food chain.

I also recognize that people are infatuated with new & shiny. I went to a cruise night last year and there were a lot of nice cars, new and old. I saw lots of huddles around some newer cars, the zaino stickered euro-car of the day and some others. But many people likely missed the Ida built Caddy in the lot. By 100% or more this was the best car in the lot hands down, zero argument if you actually stopped and looked at it. It probably took more time to build than the 30 newest cars in the lot took to be built combined. It was a masterpiece. Judges get swayed in similar fashion. This wasn't a judged show, just a theoretical example to highlight a point, but if it were and that car lost to a 2015 Shelby whatever, i'd want to punch the judges in the throat and revoke their man cards. I'd think the same if BLS's Firebird lost an award to a new HC, for the same reason.

It is hard to make any generalized statement because there are so many variables that impact my thought process. is it a show or a regular cruise, a club show, what is the primary target of the show, what was the award (best late model, best of show, etc). Semi-regular cruise nights, take Howell for instance, will not give an award to the same cars every week, they try to spread it around, keep people coming That's fine, no problem. And to the person who is there only one week the choices may be mind boggling, but you need to see the bigger picture.

I don't even bring cost into play as I know restoring such a car is easily more money than buying a new hellcat (as a simply topical example). I also recognize that many guys can write a check for a restoration, so that dilutes the buying a new car discussion a bit. So eh, stay away from the cost argument, and the "he just bought it" argument, and even the 'its easy' argument. Keep the focus on the cars.

BonzoHansen · 07-11-2016, 01:35 PM

Oh btw, to the annoying Challenger Hellcat or SRT or whatever owner who thinks your car is cooler than a 1970 Hemi Challenger, you are wrong. And you will be forever. You are simply driving a more highly sophisticated clone, not the magnificent original.

Sorry, I heard a guy talking at a cruise night that pissed me off. Seemed somewhat on topic lol

Blackbirdws6 · 07-11-2016, 01:53 PM

This topic was debated on social media so I figured it would be interesting to discuss it here. I did not post it to secretly gain support for a recent car show event where I took home a size-able trophy for simply bringing a new, clean car. Honestly the whole thing was extremely awkward. It happened a couple weeks ago at a casual cruise night. I didn't bother to wash the car and won a little trophy. I kept saying to myself "I'm that *********." Like any other show, I went to have a good excuse to drive my car, see people/cars and enjoy the day being around what I love. I'm no trophy hunter by any means but if I get one, well that's great.

With that said, I think the trouble really comes in with the assumed perception of any car show. Everyone assumes the judges are knowledgeable about the vehicles and can score them to the appropriate level. Of the 4 or so shows I've attended this year, the classes are usually roughly defined and as you would expect, go to the judges favorite cars. A couple have been sponsored trophies by an organization who pick their favorite car. Not the best, most well maintained, rare, etc but their favorite. If I was judging a show, I would be biased towards my favorites but also how someone modded the car. Is the guy with the airbrushed mural better than the guy who is less flashly but has equally as much work in the car? I dunno but in the end, these all appear to be for fun.

For those who want to go to a show gunning for a trophy, my only suggestion is to read the details and determine if it is for you.

Alex - This thread was not meant towards you at all. And for the record aside from the driveshaft no one sees....the hellcat has window tint, corner light tint, fender guards and has been partially debaged/rebadged. It's a highly modified vehicle!!!

jeff wilson · 07-11-2016, 02:53 PM

If this is a yes or no question then Yes

sweetbmxrider · 07-11-2016, 03:20 PM

What if its a bone stock 1970 challenger? 2013 zr1? 2017 lambo? 2015 camaro v6 vin#0001? What if the same $60k was dumped into a yugo? Too much silly gray area. Never cared for winning at car shows, I only like genuine reactions from cool people.

jeff wilson · 07-11-2016, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

What if its a bone stock 1970 challenger? 2013 zr1? 2017 lambo? 2015 camaro v6 vin#0001? What if the same $60k was dumped into a yugo? Too much silly gray area. Never cared for winning at car shows, I only like genuine reactions from cool people.

Guess i dont care for winning shows either. My camaro has 6500miles on it and its getting a 6pt rollbar this week.

jeff wilson · 07-11-2016, 04:46 PM

BTW congradulations Brian on your trophy!!!

Jersey Mike · 07-11-2016, 06:32 PM

I guess I need a Facebook. You ****ers are having fun without me.

sweetbmxrider · 07-11-2016, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff wilson

Guess i dont care for winning shows either. My camaro has 6500miles on it and its getting a 6pt rollbar this week.

unstable bob gable · 07-12-2016, 04:48 AM

I don't know what to think anymore. I saw a really cool 72 Lemans with a stroked 455 pull into a car club gathering and guys wouldn't walk over 4 parking spaces to look at it. And one of those guys owned a high line new car. And It's been rammed down my throat that ricers are really just young adult car enthusiasts who are important to our hobby for the money they bring in for fart pipes, neon, and stretching skinny tires on wide rims. So quite frankly I think the hobby has gone all to hell and I couldn't give a fukke if a brand new Honduh got a 75 foot tall trophy at the Somerville cruise. What I appreciate is people like the guy at Wendy's yesterday who took a few minutes to check out my Spirit R/T. That to me was better then a trophy.

sweetbmxrider · 07-12-2016, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unstable bob gable

I don't know what to think anymore. I saw a really cool 72 Lemans with a stroked 455 pull into a car club gathering and guys wouldn't walk over 4 parking spaces to look at it. And one of those guys owned a high line new car. And It's been rammed down my throat that ricers are really just young adult car enthusiasts who are important to our hobby for the money they bring in for fart pipes, neon, and stretching skinny tires on wide rims. So quite frankly I think the hobby has gone all to hell and I couldn't give a fukke if a brand new Honduh got a 75 foot tall trophy at the Somerville cruise. What I appreciate is people like the guy at Wendy's yesterday who took a few minutes to check out my Spirit R/T. That to me was better then a trophy.

You are officially worse than my girlfriend. Get your fukking panties out of a bunch and move on.

Anti_Rice_Guy · 07-12-2016, 06:44 AM

I also hate when a newish, mostly stock vehicle wins an award...unless it's a "modern" category, all that model/brand show (like Camaro Nationals). Have I entered the Camaro into many shows and cruises? Of course? Expect to win an award? Absolutely not. Maybe 20 years from now. Can't be mad at the owner for trying, though.

On the flip side, I hate even more how some shows/cruises exclude new cars such as your HC Charger on the entire basis that it's new.

unstable bob gable · 07-12-2016, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

You are officially worse than my girlfriend. Get your fukking panties out of a bunch and move on.

The OP asked for opinions so I gave mine. That's not ok with you, Troll Boy? Well, you can go fukk yerself. Why don't you remove the seat from your BMX bike, plant yerself firmly, and go ride off a cliff.

sweetbmxrider · 07-12-2016, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unstable bob gable

The OP asked for opinions so I gave mine. That's not ok with you, Troll Boy? Well, you can go fukk yerself. Why don't you remove the seat from your BMX bike, plant yerself firmly, and go ride off a cliff.

You keep bringing up that no one looked at some pos that your friend drove to an f-body meet. You should put the seat back on your bike, you seem too butt-hurt for that fun.

I'm embarrassed I ever bought a shirt to support you when things were tough in your life. If you want, paypal me the money back and I can mail you the shirt or dispose of it. Its your choice.

Blackbirdws6 · 07-12-2016, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unstable bob gable

I don't know what to think anymore. I saw a really cool 72 Lemans with a stroked 455 pull into a car club gathering and guys wouldn't walk over 4 parking spaces to look at it. And one of those guys owned a high line new car.

You really need to get over it. Your buddy also didn't take any interest in the others cars in the parking lot that day either. Why not say something at the meet rather than smash away at the keyboard afterward or via text?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti_Rice_Guy

On the flip side, I hate even more how some shows/cruises exclude new cars such as your HC Charger on the entire basis that it's new.

I do find this annoying but more so if the meet is dead and it's clear they need some additional participation.

sweetbmxrider · 07-12-2016, 08:55 AM

Cars and Coffee seems to be the best. No awards right? No bitches to cry about participation ribbons? Real life isn't hugs and kisses and ****** drawings on the fridge.

Blackbirdws6 · 07-12-2016, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

Cars and Coffee seems to be the best. No awards right? No bitches to cry about participation ribbons? Real life isn't hugs and kisses and ****** drawings on the fridge.

I love these events if they don't become too ridiculous. The less casual, the less I like them but they do draw a great variety of cars.

BonzoHansen · 07-12-2016, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

Cars and Coffee seems to be the best. No awards right? No bitches to cry about participation ribbons? Real life isn't hugs and kisses and ****** drawings on the fridge.

Yes. Give me a good cruise night over anything with awards. Although I could do w/o paying to go to a cruise night with no charity involved. But I digress.