LS1 Swap

[BonzoHansen]

Ok, with those pics the choices seem limited so I'm still thinking cats right off the collectors - I'm sure they will be hot enough, especially if the headers are coated in & out. Then custom y-pipe. Say hello to denny at mufflex!

QQ plates in 2012!

[LTb1ow]

Ok, with those pics the choices are limited so I'm still thinking cats right off the collectors - I'm sure they will be hot enough, especially if the headers are coated in & out. Then custom y-pipe. Say hello to denny at mufflex!

QQ plates in 2012!

yea, pretty much everything I have seen is custom made up.. heres another one Al..
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/6665/ypiperearsm.jpg

When are you due for inspection?
I would suggest getting the damn thing running, then drive it to Mufflex and say "heres two cats, make **** work"

[BigAls87Z28]

Ahaha, I actually have 2x2.5 inch cats in the garage. They arent the round ones, they are more conventional and not exactly high flow from what I remember, but I do already have them. They are small. Im at my fathers now, so ill snap some shots and post them up here in a sec.

every y pipe I have seen has been custom. Either someone destroys the one that hawk sells, or goes to a shop to make their own.
You would figure at this point, someone would make a Y that worked. I still dont understand why a Y pipe for lets say, LT Hookers for a SBC wouldnt work? Once the exhaust is routed to the collector, they all end up in about the same location, right? So what would really be the difference. Anyone have a spare third gen y pipe for LT headers lying around?

[KirkEvil]

I have an old 3" catted Y pipe for 4th gens in my garage. I got it used along with headers and ran it for about 1k miles. Not sure how well they worked but it smelled better :lol:. Your welcome to take it off my hands and hack away...

[BigAls87Z28]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs100.ash2/38324_1471415138219_1018838304_1367005_202994_n.jp g

those are the two cats I have.

[PolarBear]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs100.ash2/38324_1471415138219_1018838304_1367005_202994_n.jp g


I think you will have a hard time getting those to fit under the car with LT's. With all the pictures I have seen there is not a lot of room under the tunnel to begin with for LT's and even less without a custom crossmember. None of the currently available ones are going to let you have any kind of ground clearance with those cats.

[deadtrend1]

Just buy my 3" cats Al .... :)

[BigAls87Z28]

You have 3in cats to sell me?

[LTb1ow]

You have 3in cats to sell me?

http://www.njfboa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=47053

[BigAls87Z28]

Yeah, found them. Looks good Tim, they should clear I guess.

[sweetbmxrider]

why not wait till the damn thing is together so you can see what you are working with. you can bicker and brainstorm all you want but it sure as hell isn't going to put cats on your y. go do work

[BigAls87Z28]

wah.....
Kinda wana figure it out first, not just amass a large pile of parts like SOME race car drivers.

[KirkEvil]

Hey Al did you swap the ls6 valley pan on yet?

[BigAls87Z28]

Not yet, so far this week has turned into a cluster**** of nonsense.
I lazy'ed out Sunday, and that backfired. Today was my day off, but I had to go into work to get the place in shape for the big shots this week, and that is eating up all of my time.

BTW, Saturday I cant go to Dougs wedding. Its my grandmothers birthday party. It was supposed to be next week, but it got moved to this weekend.

[PolarBear]

Al, here is a pretty clean looking exhaust picture in this post, but you will need those small bullet cats like we are all mentioning.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/posts/ltx-lsx/579972-finally-exhaust-complete/4608997-post6.html

[BigAls87Z28]

Those cats are pretty far downstream.

[sweetbmxrider]

throw it together with an ory, grab an infrared thermometer, and see where the exhaust is hot enough for the cat to work properly :D

[BigAls87Z28]

I see Tim's cats, but should I get two of those spun cats that Magnaflow sells?

[sweetbmxrider]

I see Tim's cats, but should I get two of those spun cats that Magnaflow sells?

Ahaha, I actually have 2x2.5 inch cats in the garage. They arent the round ones, they are more conventional and not exactly high flow from what I remember, but I do already have them. They are small. Im at my fathers now, so ill snap some shots and post them up here in a sec.

every y pipe I have seen has been custom. Either someone destroys the one that hawk sells, or goes to a shop to make their own.
You would figure at this point, someone would make a Y that worked. I still dont understand why a Y pipe for lets say, LT Hookers for a SBC wouldnt work? Once the exhaust is routed to the collector, they all end up in about the same location, right? So what would really be the difference. Anyone have a spare third gen y pipe for LT headers lying around?

Alright quick and easy one...hopefully.

1 3/4 headers come in either 2.5 or 3 inch collectors. Im feeling 2.5 for clearance issues. Will I see that much of a difference with the extra half inch?

It has a 3 inch exhaust on it already. But there is still a whole y pipe between the two

Well, the Y can be made of 2x2.5's into a 3 inch section that attaches to the cat, and then into the I pipe.

The y will make up any difference in size from the LT's to the cat,

baaahahhahaah

seriously you are doing something "one off" so you have to roll with the punches. i would concentrate on the major components first then nitpick with the little things later on. i mean, you have an engine from 2000 whatever going into a 1987 mess. there will be plenty of tongue twisters for you to re engineer :)

that or i'll just go **** myself

[BigAls87Z28]

Major components are figured out already. Im looking into the future now. Like I said, I want to have a game plan as I move forward.

[PolarBear]

that or i'll just go **** myself

This :rofl:

IMO the bullet cats are the way to go for clearance and space but they also carry a fairly hefty pricetag, you could do some "generic" or magnaflows for a LOT less. I plan on dual Random tech cats on the 91 as it was/is an N10 car so that is what it is supposed to have.

[sweetbmxrider]

Major components are figured out already. Im looking into the future now. Like I said, I want to have a game plan as I move forward.

yes but when things are together on the car, you can more easily see what you need to deal with and then you can get creative. honestly i just don't wanna see you buy converters then try to resell them when they don't work.

[BigAls87Z28]

Understandable, but thats why I want to look at what others have done.

[sweetbmxrider]

i get that but it seems not much is coming up and you are asking should i do this or that? i would wait until you have a header in your floor board and another on the ground to determine the correct purchase :D

[BigAls87Z28]

Ahh well, sorry for being proactive in my parts purchasing.

[sweetbmxrider]

you are going to need a custom y no matter what, right? why not ask the experts who are going to tackle that.....just sayin ;-)

[BigAls87Z28]

Guess so.
Alright well back onto the search for a TC. anyone know of anyone selling a Yank SS3600 converter?

[Frosty]

Guess so.
Alright well back onto the search for a TC. anyone know of anyone selling a Yank SS3600 converter?

They're for sale quite a bit on the ls1 boards.

[BigAls87Z28]

Eh, searching that god forsaken classifieds on ls1tech is a nightmare.
I saw that one guy had an SS3600 for 375 shipped, but missed it by about a week. Been waiting ever since....

[sweetbmxrider]

why not get a new one speced to your car?

[crainholio]

why not get a new one speced to your car?

I can think of a few rea$on$...

[sweetbmxrider]

money = happiness

****** stall = ****** ride

[Frosty]

Eh, searching that god forsaken classifieds on ls1tech is a nightmare.
I saw that one guy had an SS3600 for 375 shipped, but missed it by about a week. Been waiting ever since....

Yeah I don't like their new set up.

Just know you're taking a risk by buying a used converter, a ton of people do it all the time but it "can" turn into a real nightmare.

[BigAls87Z28]

Used parts are always a gamble.

[BigAls87Z28]

Are LS1 intake gaskets reuseable? Gunna pop the top off and drop in the Corvette valley pan, just wanted to know if I need to pick up set from work. Might do it anyway.

[NastyEllEssWon]

yes they are

[BigAls87Z28]

alright, update:

1) LS6 valley pan does not fit, and I will need to cut off some meaningless boss that is cast into the block. Oh well, minor set back.
2) motor mounts are out, and Ill cut and drill the rivets off. Anyone have any link to what size bit, or what kind of bit to use?

[BigAls87Z28]

I want to get the engine and trans in the car by Friday. That means the 305 motor mount needs to come out, and the both new brackets need to go on the K, as well as installing the new poly mounts for the engine.
It also means finding a TC...soon

[sweetbmxrider]

http://www.converter.com/

http://www.circledspecialties.com/

found some pal!

[BigAls87Z28]

Pricey options man....pricey options.

[Frosty]

Speed cost money which you're well aware of.

[BigAls87Z28]

Sure does...sure does.

[BigAls87Z28]

Ok i was wondering if anyone has done or heard about people switching to Dex 6 fluid? its twice the price but its a better fluid. Anyone?

[BigAls87Z28]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs104.ash2/38539_1491551161607_1018838304_1419934_4811583_n.j pg

And I went with Dex 6. Little search on line and some good reviews popped up.

[BigAls87Z28]

Dex6 is semi synthetic i know that.

[BigAls87Z28]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs266.snc4/39638_1496695250206_1018838304_1432720_6221787_n.j pg

ITS IN!! I have now defaulted back to the Corvette filter with 255lph pump.

[BigAls87Z28]

ahahahah..yeah. Should be fun times from here on out.

[BigAls87Z28]

Hey Crainholio, how hard was it to wire that speedo into the cluster??

[BigAls87Z28]

ABS output eh? Hrm...

[PolarBear]

Al, I was at the meet today but you werent available for me to give bolts to :shrug:

[BigAls87Z28]

I actually found one sitting in box with parts that came with the engine. Too bad there was only one.

[PolarBear]

WHat are you going to do for the other one? Put a wooden stick in there :p

[BigAls87Z28]

Gunna? What do think i did? Its at least pressure treated....

[BigAls87Z28]

Headers are here. Now its time to start making this thing fire up.

[BigAls87Z28]

Still waiting on the harness. Ill shoot John an email to check in on it.

anyone, still need any or all hints to a good exhaust shop that is less then an hour away.

[PolarBear]

They did a really good job putting the little exhaust work on my 73 that I needed completed. They made hangars where the pipes had nothing.

People from really far away will bring work to them, I remember a guy on TGO from Maryland brought his car up here for exhaust

[Mike]

and they are 6 blocks from my house, so you can hang out while they work

[BonzoHansen]

AAA+ to get it there. Ask around I'm sure you know someone that has it ;)

[PolarBear]

and they are 6 blocks from my house, so you can hang out while they work

Is that city or country blocks? :lol:

[Mike]

normal ones...

[BigAls87Z28]

Gave mufflex a call and got a great quote. Looks like ill be heading to Trenton soon.

[LTb1ow]

Gave mufflex a call and got a great quote. Looks like ill be heading to Trenton soon.

:rofl: Gonna show them your cool little headers and see how they like them?

[BigAls87Z28]

Alright, well now I have thought about this, and Kirk brought it up that even with cats, I still wont pass emissions in NJ. Unlike my fellow LS1 guys here, I cant get by with an OBD II scan and done. I have to still pass the sniffer, and I dont think thats gunna happen.
I dont know if I should spend the money anyway for cats, only for me to fail anyway.

[Blackbirdws6]

Glad to hear mufflex got you the right number. Hopefully Antony still works there. He has done all the work on my car and my Dad's old vette and both came out great.

I would only go with the cats if you were afraid of a mobile inspection and don't mind the smell. Regarding inspection, you could just have the outer casing welded to the pipe.

[BonzoHansen]

why won't it pass with cats?

[LTb1ow]

Al's cam has around nine degrees of overlap, doubt its gonna clean up

[BigAls87Z28]

Cam is a bit bigger then that. 232/234 .595/.598 lift 112 LSA.
The PCM is tuned already for !emissions stuff.

[BonzoHansen]

do cats & see if it passes. with a cat my pig rich CFI setup passed.

[NastyEllEssWon]

yeah anthony was still at mufflex when i went last summer, he's been there a long time and dont think he's going anywhere anytime soon.



one word of advice, if you go to mufflex dont get flanges.

[PolarBear]

why won't it pass with cats?

Yeah? You went through the trouble of researching to see if you could get the EVAP to work properly, just do the cats and see what happens. If you had something like HPT you could do a performance tune and an inspection tune if necessary. Hydrocarbons is about the fuel trims and overlap while the other stuff is based on timing and whatnot, right?

Also since your car is an 87 the LS1 should run cleaner than the original TPI and since it is older the margins should be higher than for a new car anyway. I wont be doign a cam with my swap but I fully expect it to run a lot better than the TPI ever did.

[BigAls87Z28]

Its a very good question, I guess I could have it tuned to reduce the HC.

[BigAls87Z28]

Hrm...and this could be done without some sort of tuning software?

[sweetbmxrider]

you can store two separate tunes on 99-02 ls1 computers. some dude on ls1tech does it. if i ever end up with 8 coils, i am definitely doing that.

[BigAls87Z28]

But I would assume I need some sort of software? gotta look into this...

[Blackbirdws6]

I haz HPTuners. Get credits for like $100 and we can tinker after a professional looks at the tune.

[BigAls87Z28]

I haz HPTuners. Get credits for like $100 and we can tinker after a professional looks at the tune.

Good to know Brian...good to know.

[BigAls87Z28]

Alright, well more parts of the puzzle showed up.
I now have all the braided SS hose, fittings, and corvette fuel filter to get this game on the road.
Still waiting for my harness...

[BigAls87Z28]

Alright, harness should be arriving sometime durring the week.
All the pieces should be here, then get it ready to go to Mufflex

[sweetbmxrider]

yay

[BigAls87Z28]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs632.snc4/59238_1533940421312_1018838304_1530506_4671991_n.j pg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs297.snc4/41208_1533941061328_1018838304_1530507_2994037_n.j pg

These slid in soooo nice, with out a hick up. I think im going to bolt them up for good tomorrow.

[sweetbmxrider]

nice photochop pal

[PolarBear]

Those ARE pretty, too bad I dont wanna use longtubes :( Got my 02 manifolds this past week.

[Blackbirdws6]

This is coming along nicely. Glad to see you got more done.

Whats next besides the harness, fuel and exhaust? Start-up??!?!?

[BigAls87Z28]

Well, things left..
I need to bolt the converter up to the flexplate, and thats...thats it? Bolt in starter, and then start having fun with the harness and fuel lines.

Tomorrow, Im gunna start to jack the back end up, and dropping the 9 bolt and fuel tank. should be a boat-load of fun.
If I can drop the tank, Ill drop in the pump, and Ill fab up the spot for the Corvette filter.
Harness is gunna be the biggest fun time.

[LTb1ow]

You got this from speartech right?
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/speartech/wFINISHED3.jpg

[BigAls87Z28]

Yep...came attached to the harness.

[1984camaroz28]

Al looks like its coming along great. Can't wait to see the finished product.

[qwikz28]

The 87 lives!

[PolarBear]

From reading (and posting) it looks like the canister purge MAY work without the LS1 dash in the swap
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/ltx-lsx/588146-legal-ls1-swap-california.html

[sweetbmxrider]

sounds like he just turned off the evap/deleted the codes. i am interested in seeing whether or not the evap is actually functioning while driving though.

[BonzoHansen]

I still see nothing about needing a 4th gen cluster for evap to work. what I just read is you must keep the fuel sender signal to the ecm. ecm feeds the dash, not the other way around. all those links talk about how to get the gauge to work, and bypassing the ecm bangs up evap codes. of course, that is what the book says.

Adam, you probably have all-data or something, maybe I missed something, read the manuals and dtc charts. I saw zero reference to the gauge cluster in the evap or fuel pressure sensor DTCs. but a precondition for many related codes is 15%-85% fuel level. sender wires go to ecm, that is what matters to the ecm.

I still point to the new GM e-rod crate setup. it comes with evap. how does it work? Mr GMI ought to be able to get some tech help from gm I'd hope, someone at GMI must have a GM contact.

that programmable fuel gauge is trick.

[maroman88]

emissions? this cars an 87 right? QQ plates in another year!

[BonzoHansen]

but evap is nice, your garage doesn't smell like fuel and has zero performance impact.

[sweetbmxrider]

yeah and i remember digging through everything and seeing it just as you are. still, i feel with the computer not seeing specific data it will want to throw a CEL and disable evap venting anyways. its beyond me now and the way the guy was describing how he got it to "work" sounded like he just turned it off.

[BonzoHansen]

it reads off the sender unit, nothing else. that is how I read it. where it goes wrong is diverting the fuel level leads from the ecm to a gauge so the ecm gets bad info. even splicing the leads is probably enough to bang it up.

I have to look at the tank in the back yard to see if it would work, but why not install an aftermarket level sender in the tank?

[BigAls87Z28]

Does not matter, I went with a third gen tank.
Im going to just pick up a Monte Carlo charcol canister, plum a line off the tank, run it up to the canister, and then from the canister up to the port in the intake. Pretty straight forward. No sensor, no worrying about anything.
Actually, I remember someone putting the canister under the stock location. Only thing under there is the vac bubble for cruise control.

[PolarBear]

I
I still point to the new GM e-rod crate setup. it comes with evap. how does it work?

that programmable fuel gauge is trick.

You have brought up the E-Rod before, may have been in conversation. I dont think you can use this as a reference really, you arent really comparing like things. Yes, they are all engines but the E-rod is based on the LS3 and I think 52x reluctor and therefore uses a different ECM plus it may have a different flash on it so it can not be programmed and may be unique to the ECM line specifically to meet the CARB or what ever requirements
Since the LS1 came out of an existing car I think people are having issues getting the evap functional even if you feed the fuel level into the ECM, but I may be wrong about that.

What programmable fuel gauge are you referring to?

its beyond me now and the way the guy was describing how he got it to "work" sounded like he just turned it off.

Yeah he kind of skirted my question about KNOWING whether it was actually working compared to the ECM thinking that it SHOULD work

it reads off the sender unit, nothing else. that is how I read it. where it goes wrong is diverting the fuel level leads from the ecm to a gauge so the ecm gets bad info. even splicing the leads is probably enough to bang it up.

I have to look at the tank in the back yard to see if it would work, but why not install an aftermarket level sender in the tank?

I dont think the ECM would care as much about the fuel level input being "correct" or sliced as other sensors as the fuel level is constantly changing while the vehicle is in motion so the resistance is going to be changing all the time and I would think not as prone to voltage levels compared to, say, the MAF or MAP

I doubt you could get an aftermarket sender in the plastic tank easily since it is plastic compared to metal like most older vehicles, you cant really just shoot screws into it..... I dont like to idea of modifying stock tanks though....

[BonzoHansen]

you are likely right on the e-rod, my point was maybe there is something to be learned from that. According to the DTC code diagnostic charts the ecm does care about fuel level.

the fuel gauge is in some of those linked threads.

[PolarBear]

you are likely right on the e-rod, my point was maybe there is something to be learned from that. According to the DTC code diagnostic charts the ecm does care about fuel level.

the fuel gauge is in some of those linked threads.

You mean this? I missed those, that is pretty cool
http://autometer.com/img/products/5710_d.jpg

[BigAls87Z28]

Yeah, I was looking at them at work. Pricey, but very cool for custom applications.

Again, Im sure there is a way to do this without the dash. But its probably a lot harder, and more costly then either 1) doing a dash swap or 2) dumping out into the air.

[sweetbmxrider]

lets figure it out then make millions!!!!

[BigAls87Z28]

Millions of pennies?
Most people who do these swaps are for cars that predate emissions laws.

[sweetbmxrider]

pretty sure i already posted this but....

The PCM uses the fuel level sensor input in order to determine the amount of fuel in the fuel tank. The PCM disables the engine misfire diagnostic when the fuel level is too low and the EVAP system diagnostic when the fuel level is either too high or too low. The PCM also controls the fuel gauge based on the fuel level input.


so can/should al wire in a resistor to trick the computer into thinking there is say 90% or more of fuel? this way, he retains misfire detection and disables the evap diagnostic (even though it can be tuned out)

just a thought

[PolarBear]

pretty sure i already posted this but....



so can/should al wire in a resistor to trick the computer into thinking there is say 90% or more of fuel? this way, he retains misfire detection and disables the evap diagnostic (even though it can be tuned out)

just a thought

I dont think that will work since the 3rd gen uses a 0-90 ohm while the 4th gen used 240-? ohm unless he changes the sender I dont think it will work.

[WildBillyT]

pretty sure i already posted this but....



so can/should al wire in a resistor to trick the computer into thinking there is say 90% or more of fuel? this way, he retains misfire detection and disables the evap diagnostic (even though it can be tuned out)

just a thought

Yeah, I don't know if that would work but it sounds like a good approach to the problem.

[sweetbmxrider]

I dont think that will work since the 3rd gen uses a 0-90 ohm while the 4th gen used 240-? ohm unless he changes the sender I dont think it will work.

he's using the 3rd gen tank and sender with an aftermarket gauge i believe.

i am saying wire the resistor on the pcm input for fuel level to trick it into thinking there is nearly a full tank of gas which will disable the evap diagnostic test but still allow for misfire detection which is pretty smart in my mind.

[PolarBear]

i am saying wire the resistor on the pcm input for fuel level to trick it into thinking there is nearly a full tank of gas which will disable the evap diagnostic test but still allow for misfire detection which is pretty smart in my mind.

Oh ok, I see what you mean. I wasnt smart enough to think like that. I thought I remember hearing something about that the level must change periodically or something or it throws a code? I could be completely wrong though, Maybe Scott said something along those lines.

[sweetbmxrider]

it could very well be true, wire in a switch with two resistors? :lol: oh the joys of technology

[BigAls87Z28]

Stock gauge, stock tank, stock sending unit, 255lph pump, Corvette fuel filter.
Only aftermarket gauge there will be in the dash in the speedo.

[BonzoHansen]

have your OE speedo converted to electronic.

[sweetbmxrider]

Stock gauge, stock tank, stock sending unit, 255lph pump, Corvette fuel filter.
Only aftermarket gauge there will be in the dash in the speedo.

ah duh, i knew that! get some resistorssssssssssssssss pal!

[BigAls87Z28]

have your OE speedo converted to electronic.

Or...just use the Autometer Sport Comp gauge I bought for 180 bucks through work?

[BonzoHansen]

easy road :p

[BigAls87Z28]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs007.snc4/33706_1558103345370_1018838304_1586982_1177354_n.j pg

Ok, filter bracket made. I have it tucked into the cubby hole there. Torque arm shouldnt be a problem.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs679.snc4/61933_1558183627377_1018838304_1587231_6050131_n.j pg

Main line up to the engine.

Here is it all done for the msot part.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs644.snc4/60450_1558271189566_1018838304_1587462_8035757_n.j pg

[sweetbmxrider]

nice work pal, shoulda told me and i woulda cruised up

[KirkEvil]

Nice. Did you get the tank put back in too?

[BigAls87Z28]

Yeah, tank's back up. It's gone'rain the next few days, so this is where it will sit the sun comes back. I need to cut that return line and get that done.
I also need to figure out how much of that 1/4 evap hose I need to run to the Monte charcol canister.


What I plan on doing is this:
I picked up a Monte Carlo (Gbody) Vapor/Charcol canister and will be mounting that upside down under where the stocker went, to clean up the corner, and then run the line to the little dongle that sticks out on the side of the intake, just behind the TB.
That should do it for emissions, tank wise anyway.

[PolarBear]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs007.snc4/33706_1558103345370_1018838304_1586982_1177354_n.j pg

Why didnt you just put it in the stock location so it is sorta protected? It kinda sits in the hump there under the seat.

I didnt take a picture of mine in that spot but here is the bracket I made

http://i494.photobucket.com/albums/rr302/notchbackgta/91%20GTA/DSC01991.jpg

[BigAls87Z28]

Mostly because I didnt purchase 90* ends....
I could always go back and fix it, but for now this should be good.

[BonzoHansen]

That does not look like the best place to run a fuel line. I think there is a reason you never see an OE run lines through there. You might want to reconsider. Good for now is the wrong answer. There will never be as good a time to fix it than now.

Also, is that going to interfere with the e-brake cables?

[BigAls87Z28]

The filter is tucked away enough where it wont come into contact with anything, and running the line there is fine.
No, there is no interference with the cables.

[BonzoHansen]

I'm not going to bust your balls past this post, but fuel lines next to a spinning driveshaft is not fine. You will never see an OE do that for a reason. For example if your DS breaks (see: cbrrmike (http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/1824231175.jpg?1233520991), drag radials & cammed LS1, nothing real special) it will tear the fuel line in half. Or if something gets thrown around by the driveshaft. **** happens. Will your fuel pump shut down when the engine stops (key on) or just keep pumping?

[BigAls87Z28]

Scott, I understand your feelings on it. Here is my rebuttle, and Im going to put your fears for my life to rest.

1) there is a very large piece of steel that is blocking that, its called a torque arm. I know second gens dont have that, but its ok.
2) Ive guided the fuel line along the same lines as the brake line, which was from the factory tied along side the old fuel lines. I just swung that line up on that for the hell of it.

[Mike]

I'm not going to bust your balls past this post, but fuel lines next to a spinning driveshaft is not fine. You will never see an OE do that for a reason. For example if your DS breaks (see: cbrrmike (http://www.fquick.com/images/vehicles/full/1824231175.jpg?1233520991), drag radials & cammed LS1, nothing real special) it will tear the fuel line in half. Or if something gets thrown around by the driveshaft. **** happens. Will your fuel pump shut down when the engine stops (key on) or just keep pumping?

i have a stock cam... which kinda makes your point stronger. al is right that the tq arm will keep the driveshaft from getting to the lines, BUT that also brings up the issue of checking the clearance between the filter/lines and the tq arm THROUGHOUT the travel of the suspension

[BigAls87Z28]

Plenty of space. Might get tight around the header area so I haven't put in the retaining clamps yet.

[BigAls87Z28]

Rear is back in and harness is mostly connected to its correct spots. Not too much longer now hopefully. Down the home stretch.

[sweetbmxrider]

yeah its deff getting there

[transmaro93]

early this week is pretty shot from rain.. but if its nice friday im down for work.. so let me know... sorry i couldnt make it yesturday... im glad you guys got some work done though... you put the 9 bolt back in?

[sweetbmxrider]

also, the fuel filter looks way worse in those pics than actually seeing it IMO. plenty of room plus pal has some trick mounting brackets to keep that feed line secure. if anything, i'd be scurred of them steamrollers out back!

[BigAls87Z28]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs713.snc4/63296_1567531541069_1018838304_1607538_2989562_n.j pg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs713.snc4/63381_1567532341089_1018838304_1607545_3980798_n.j pg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs244.snc4/39526_1567587462467_1018838304_1607830_7511893_n.j pg

[WildBillyT]

I love those header flanges.

[PolarBear]

I love those header flanges.

I would have to agree with that. Look about 3/8" thick, shouldnt have to worry about those warping any time soon

[sweetbmxrider]

nah, just the home depot bolts backing out everyday :lol:

they are nice headers, just looks like the passenger collector sits too close to the subframe. might actually hit it a little. everything else about them is niceeeee, slip right in too!

[WildBillyT]

nah, just the home depot bolts backing out everyday :lol:



Yeah, I noticed that too :lol:

[Blackbirdws6]

I have time on Sunday to give a hand.

[transmaro93]

i cant wait to see this thing run down the track... in two years... hahah... friday let me know!

[BigAls87Z28]

Yeah, the hardware Hawk provides isnt super cool looking, Im gunna pick up a set of locking header bolts.

Need some help with the radiator. James or Cornholio, what do you guys have planned for the coolant line idea? I was gunna just do like everyone else and tap a line line into the top of the water pump.

[PolarBear]

Im gunna pick up a set of locking header bolts.


I would recommend these (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-21008/). I had them on my Gen 1 motor, they CANT loosen when set right

[BigAls87Z28]

Hrm...ok
So it looks like its gunna be the heater hose port.

[BigAls87Z28]

I would recommend these (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-21008/). I had them on my Gen 1 motor, they CANT loosen when set right

Yeah, had them on my 305.
Too bad they are sold out till early November.

[deadtrend1]

Yeah, had them on my 305.
Too bad they are sold out till early November.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Percy%26%23039%3Bs/760/21008/10002/-1

[PolarBear]

http://www.percyshp.com/store/Bolts-Fasteners/Stainless-Steel-Fasteners/Header/Split-Lock-GM-GEN-III-LSX-/-Ford-4-0-V6-Qty-12-8MM-X-25MM-12-Point/prod_163.html

[JL8Jeff]

Need some help with the radiator. James or Cornholio, what do you guys have planned for the coolant line idea? I was gunna just do like everyone else and tap a line line into the top of the water pump.

Al, on the 68 Camaro I had with the 94 LT1 in it I used a 93 Z28 upper radiator hose because it has the coolant line built into it. I don't know if you could make it work with some sort of extension added to it but it might be worth looking into.

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imageurl=http%3A%2F%2Finfo.rockauto.c om%2FGoodyear%2F62055_VIEW1.jpg&imagekey=1335172-0&width=450

[BigAls87Z28]

D71707 in stock thank you Jeff! The engine already has the bypass done so there is a mighty extension on it already.

[BigAls87Z28]

Crainholio/James, how are/did you guys do for power to starter and alt?

[qwikz28]

although now would be a good time to do the Big 3 upgrade

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/stereo-electronics/883797-big-3-upgrade-200-amp-alternator.html

[sweetbmxrider]

yeah we were talkin about doing new power lines

[BigAls87Z28]

I wonder if I put the battery to the driver side like a firebird would that make things easier then stringing wires left and right.

[BigAls87Z28]

I left it in the stock location, went top term.
Im ran the two fused red wires that came out of the driver bulkhead, and Im gunna run that to the pos battery terminal. I have a two cables attached to the starter, one going to the battery, and one from the starter to the alt.

I pulled part that bulkhead connector, adn there is a heavy 10ga pink wire that went to the old ign coil. I was gunna use that wire as the power wire for the fan relays.


http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs890.snc4/72323_1576387002450_1018838304_1625642_2108595_n.j pg


What does your intake look like?

[BigAls87Z28]

I heard that the stock y is way too restrictive. Im gunna price out a custom unit at work.

[qwikz28]

I had mufflex make me a custom y years ago. Honestly, it wouldn't have been so expensive had they not sold me cats that cost something around $200-300 a piece. Just make sure you tell them what you want.

my buddy is getting his exhaust done at this place. I like that they have oval tubing too for extra clearance for the Y:

http://www.mandrelbendingsolutions.com/servlet/StoreFront

[Tru2Chevy]

I had mufflex make me a custom y years ago. Honestly, it wouldn't have been so expensive had they not sold me cats that cost something around $200-300 a piece. Just make sure you tell them what you want.

They are talking about the stock TPI intake Jake:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3320/3344343611_44a02f52ee.jpg

And FWIW, I think that the bellows in the nose that are supposed to keep water out of the intake block more air than the Y itself. I would think that it would be ok. Before pricing a custom one, why not try back to back passes with and without it? Or back to back dyno runs?

- Justin

[BigAls87Z28]

I guess I could swap them in to see the difference.

[qwikz28]

I was wondering what it meant to have a Y snorkel :lol:

but I guess we could discuss, have you figured out what you are doing for the exhaust yet Al?

[sweetbmxrider]

he's towin the bitch to mufflex with that awesome truck. it should be full of :rofl: :willy: :shock: and of course :Pal:

i was gunna come up to work on it but i'm still not feeling 100%, how's tomorrow? sneak out of teh dump erm autozone early?

[BigAls87Z28]

Yeah sounds good. I got the hoses done mostly. Need to figure out the heater hose stuff.

[BigAls87Z28]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs024.snc4/33541_1577821358308_1018838304_1628940_8126109_n.j pg

upper

I think im gunna cut off that stupid hose holder there. Its getting in the way.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs031.snc4/33920_1577821758318_1018838304_1628941_5750589_n.j pg

Lower. Im gunna get some of that protectant sheilding that should stop the idler arm bracket from wearing a hole in the side of the hose.

[Blackbirdws6]

Black gorilla duct tape? Should work wonders and blend in.

[PolarBear]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs031.snc4/33920_1577821758318_1018838304_1628941_5750589_n.j pg


Is that the Jeep hose? Doesnt look like it really fits any better than the F350 hose if it is

[BigAls87Z28]

To be honest I just started pulling hoses off the shelf them fabbing them up to the WP I have in stock. I will cross the number over to see what it is.

[BigAls87Z28]

C70115 is the pn for the hose. Fits late 90's troopers and merc mountainers.

[sweetbmxrider]

cut it down some on the waterpump side to help pull it away from the wonda?

[PolarBear]

To be honest I just started pulling hoses off the shelf them fabbing them up to the WP I have in stock. I will cross the number over to see what it is.

Why didnt you go with one of the ones that are in the sticky's on TGO?

cut it down some on the waterpump side to help pull it away from the wonda?

It hits the idler arm, not the wonderbar, unless it is and I cant see it from the perspective

[sweetbmxrider]

you were right, its the idler mount. nothing that moves.

[BigAls87Z28]

Thanks to big Kirk and Adam for helping me out the past few nights, especially Adam!

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs882.snc4/71543_1580668469484_1018838304_1634881_1745898_n.j pg

Here is the custom hybrid 4th gen heater hose sytem
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs054.ash2/36080_1579447758967_1018838304_1632643_515240_n.jp g

[V]

True, but the hose moves a bit as the engine torques so it's a good idea to add some shielding to it.

exactly what i was thinking

[qwikz28]

http://www.coolflex.com/cfm/welcome.cfm

anyone ever try this stuff? It even mentions LS1 applications on the front page

[BigAls87Z28]

It has shielding on it. Rests right between the two bolts.
Ok, so it turns over. We didnt get the trans fittings in (thats gunna be fun) but tomorrow we should have a vid of the car running.

[BigAls87Z28]

Yeah...apparently VATS was not disabled in my PCM....so now I need to scramble to get that done.

[Blackbirdws6]

Let's see what the "Dr" can do tomorrow morning :)

[BigAls87Z28]

I gotta thank everyone for helping me out. Its great to have friends like this!
Again, thanks to everyone! Hopefully, this does to trick.

[BigAls87Z28]

Well, we have hit a snag. We have fuel, it turns over, but no start. There is no spark to any of the coils. We poked and the coils are getting power, but no spark?
Neither bank of coils want to fire? We are going through the list, Brian and Adam are here with diag tools, and we are trying to chase it down.
I think we are coming to a conclusion that it might be a bad crank sensor.

[BigAls87Z28]

Injectors are firing, we see RPM on scan tool.
No coil firing.

Seems to possibly be a bad pcm.

[sweetbmxrider]

(waits for kirk's computer)

[KirkEvil]

(waits for kirk's computer)

****. The red rocket is gonna give my car the hiv.

did you ever connect that ground from the engine to the frame?

[1984camaroz28]

al the pcm is not bad the motor was runing in the car... you have a wirng issue. IF the scanner is showing rpms then your crank sensor is good.

[BigAls87Z28]

Brian called me, and I think that even if we get Kirk's ECM, we are gunna run into a VATS problem there again.

Im gunna pick up a crank sensor at work and just give it a try. Worse case, we are back to zero.

[sweetbmxrider]

****. The red rocket is gonna give my car the hiv.

did you ever connect that ground from the engine to the frame?

throw a rubber around it! ya, everything works except the coils don't fire.

al the pcm is not bad the motor was runing in the car... you have a wirng issue. IF the scanner is showing rpms then your crank sensor is good.

i don't doubt it did work, but i can't rule out that something happened along the way (possibly dropped or kicked or whatever) when al got it. we went over the wiring and came up with nothing. its not like 1 or 2 coils aren't firing, no coil receives a signal yet all have power and ground. he did contact speartech though so we will have to wait and see if they say something or the borrowed computer works. possibly try al's computer on the other car too and see if the same thing occurs.

[sweetbmxrider]

Brian called me, and I think that even if we get Kirk's ECM, we are gunna run into a VATS problem there again.

Im gunna pick up a crank sensor at work and just give it a try. Worse case, we are back to zero.

very true, but that should only disable fuel. should be able to see spark. like i said too, we can try your computer in his car. that will definitely rule it out to wiring or pcm. since we saw rpm on both scanners, a cps will do nothing IMO

[BigAls87Z28]

Brian said that the RPM should have been 400+ or so. He said he was seeing well under that.
Crank sensor is something. I also thought Cam, but no idea how to diag if that might be it.

[Blackbirdws6]

Still have a feeling something is up with the harness. Get a full charge on that battery, new CPS (return if nothing happens, why not) and see what speartech says regarding the no spark issue. Doesn't make sense that the pcm would fail so badly that it won't fire any of the coils.

[sweetbmxrider]

cam sensor won't cause a no start. definitely charge the battery fully though.

[Blackbirdws6]

http://www.hotrodlane.cc/New%20LS%20Links%20Page/Engine%20Cranks%20but%20Does%20Not%20Run.htm

Good bit of info however I think we covered a lot of this.

Any thought to a relay going bad for whatever reason? Is there a ignition relay with the harness?

Sounds like a similar issue here.

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23956&highlight=starter+check&page=1

[BigAls87Z28]

Nope, no ignition relay.

[sweetbmxrider]

nah, thats one thing i gave thought but we only have the fuse power for the coil and injectors.

[BigAls87Z28]

Got the crank sensor coming in.

[Blackbirdws6]

Attempting a quick swap and see if she fires tonight?

[BigAls87Z28]

Swapped the crank sensor, still no go. Its down to ECM or Harness. Either way, its a no-go for Nats.

[LTb1ow]

If only you had a carb. :(

[Blackbirdws6]

No word from Speartech?

[BigAls87Z28]

Speartech is saying its a PCM problem.

[BigAls87Z28]

If its the PCM, that sets me back further. I would need to 1) find a PCM, 2) have it tuned.
Not in any rush now

[sweetbmxrider]

he needs a y pal

[Blackbirdws6]

Since I have the tune from the old computer, I can copy the changes over to the new PCM. Pretty easy but tedious through the compare feature of HPTuners.

New PCM Wednesday, exhaust Thursday, wrap up Friday....NATS SATURDAY!!!

[sweetbmxrider]

at least somebody's got a lil faith round here!

gotta wire up the damn gauges though :(

[Blackbirdws6]

at least somebody's got a lil faith round here!

gotta wire up the damn gauges though :(

Details...fill it with gas, stay with the crowd and it will be fine. The point is to get it running and down the road at this point.

Let me know if I need to make some calls and get this done. I am available Wed-Fri in the evening to help. Talk to Antony at Mufflex and schedule for Thursday, Friday latest and if you have to cancel, it happens.

[BigAls87Z28]

I would have to know if its a pcm problem now so I can order one.

[BigAls87Z28]

Yeah not gunna happen. Money is pouring out of my pocket now that I never budgeted for.

[Mike]

bigals. call me whenever

[BigAls87Z28]

Mike shoot me a text since I lost a lot of numbers