Recent Changes, Further Explained

[enRo]

Well, Ill state here, what I told Tim earlier. NJFBOA back in its day, was more like a lounge rather an Fbody forum, where people with the same common interests got together on a site and just BS'ed. It had the feeling that... it was an added bonus that you owned an Fbody rather than this being a place of just strict Fbody-talks, reguardless of the New Jersey FBODY name, if anybody understands that. The environment was laid back, and not so uptight and prude, which made it an awesome experience to log on everyday. I dont get that vibe anymore, which is why I dont post much. Wasnt NJFBOA formed as a rebellion to www.njfbody.com because of the way things were ran on that site???

Now I get the vibe of, "Out with the old, in with the new" (member-speaking) REGUARDLESS of how the members who been here since practically day one were in fact the ones passing around flyers on other peoples cars just to help it grow.... and another example, I spent well over 6 hours making little icons for the forum out of good heart to give a better appearance for the site, yet us supporters since day one are getting no say in this "prude" enforment act whatsoever... instead, lets open the doors to kids who barely (if that) have their license to come on here, yap about something stupid they did, expect not to get flamed, and in return... GET flamed, and cry about it. They bring it on themselves. As it stands Ill still be lurking...

[88jerseyiroc]

It is just that everyone is so damn PC, they wouldnt know a good time if it was sitting on thier face. Stupid kids that post, oh i got a ticket today crap , should get flamed for doing something dumb and then posting it so everyone can see, it just bring on themselves and then cry about. If you wanna change the feel of the site, made those dumb kids stop posting crap threads, which give some people the reason to flame them. Come to think of it there is no rule for posting stupid **** on the forums and yet we have to watch our language. Just sad that you set rules for one said party and then let the other party get away with stuff. too me that is a little unfair.

Cursing doesnt make you look unintelligent, this is social forums from what i am reading from BigDaddyKane, and should be treated like one. If you want a intelligent conversation head over to Starbucks and talk with the yuppies bastards there. I really thought this club was filled with gearheads, not some PC yuppie scum. I bet most of you at these meets curse all the time. If you say you dont, you lie.

[WildBillyT]

You know, I can see why this is a major issue, but I don't really understand why people have such a problem being civil to each other. Flame wars and bashing are a part of board life, and I'd be lying if I said I never laughed over some of what was said, but if it gets out of hand it just leads to kiddie fighting. Tone down the nastiness, what's the big deal? Some of you are acting like this is an impossible, earth shattering request. It's not like the board is going to go all puppy dogs and ice cream. This is a CAR forum, not a quilting forum.

As far as donations, nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head. Posting is still free. If you want to throw in a couple of bucks, then go ahead, it helps out. If you don't want to give then you don't have to. Many clubs just flat out require dues, I'm glad we don't have that. It would also be nice to get some more sponsors, discounts and such.

[NJSPEEDER]

88jerseyiroc, what purpose would it serve a club that is trying to reach out to f-body and muscle car enthusiasts of all ages to allow people to be flamed until they left?

the way to learn is to read and discuss. i know many of our younger members do not have the knowledge comperable to thsoe of us that have been around a long time, but you also have to understand that they are not going to attain more knowledge by being told to go away or made fun of when they ask a question. i sort of doubt anyone here rebuilt a small block with in 10 mins of jumping out of the womb, so i doubt most of us were much differnt at 14 or 15 years old than many of the younger members around today.

i would also like out point out that the no-flaming rule is not new. rules of reasonable conduct and treatment of other members were a part of the original user agreement as well. so it is defiantely waaaaayyyyyy too late to try to recall that rule.

your second statement seems to contridict your first point as well. you complain about stupid posts, then say that we shoudl head to starbucks if we want intelligent conversation? which way do you want it? stupid or smart?

last i checked being a jerk to people jsut because they don't know as much and swearing every other word are not requirements of being a gearhead.

[88jerseyiroc]

NJspeeder you missed my point. I wasnt talking about question about stuff that members dont know about. i was talking about getting flamed for posting stupid threads like the cops suck because they gave me ticket, for example. Listen i know very little about working on f-bodies and that is why i came here, to get advice. Maybe make some new friends. I agree with you flaming some people for a good question is wrong and retaliating doesnt make it right either, but to ask us not to use a curse words here or there is just not logical too me. yes i agree with you that using a curse word every other word is just unnecassary.

i do apologize for not making my point clear enough, that it what i was talking about.

[BonzoHansen]

Isn't that what the lounge is for, non-car/open topic posts?

[NJSPEEDER]

sorry for misunderstanding you.

the language thing is certainly something that i can see where many people are coming from. personally, i swear all the time. i work on a dock, hang out with contractors, and work on cars. not exactly the social groups that envoke images of kindness and fair speech.
when the language issue was first brought up i was opposed to it completely. but after talking to the concerned members, admins of other forums, and seeing how much more successful the smaller clubs/forums were that went this route the decision became apparent that we needed to change.
i guess it is a semi-unfortunate twist to being more successful than we ever thought possible.
the benefits of the changes will become more apparent over the next several weeks. i hope that everyone who disagrees with the revisions in policy are willing to stiock around long enough to see the other side of the story.

[Firebird67dude]

If I remmeber correctly at a few meets we had some of the head people that run this open forum were talking about some of the posts about a certain person. With in this conversation these head people would be laughing about it and make even worse comments. There are only two true head people in this club. So its bad to say something in letters and written words which the person will see, and it is ok to talk smack about that same person whenn they are not around? Doesn't seem right. not very moral. Even though I really cant't sayt hat either because some people view morals differantly.

I remember one time at the TRUCKS when a car that was tucking becuase it was filled way beyond its weight capacity smacked the curb and popped a tire. I know for a fact that everyone one of the NJFBOAers thatw as there was laughign there brains out, myself included. Wasn't very nice. I'm sure that those people would hate us NJFBOA ppl.

I'm pretty sure that everyone here that works on cars and is a wrench turner curse when they mess something up. So no curseing while working on cars guys.

Either way. I personaly had no problems with this new format but its a double edged sword and from what I've seen its ok for some people to act one way and not others.

[88jerseyiroc]

Yes I agree that the lounge is for non car threads but what i am trying to point out is that some people post some whiney/cry baby posts and some one has an opinion about it and then cry about getting flamed. Just sad that some threads can be started in private between 2 people so the rest of us can keep calm and have the urge to flame the thread starter. causing us to break the forum rules

I am not a senior member, neither am I have read every thread on the board but it seems like favoritism is in fore front more then the language. In my opinion either the rules apply to all or too no one, cant have some people do and some cant. just my 2 cents

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by 88jerseyiroc

but it seems like favoritism is in fore front more then the language. In my opinion either the rules apply to all or too no one, cant have some people do and some cant. just my 2 cents

We try to be as fair as possible, but we are human too. A lot of the posts/threads that we "take care of" are reported to us by other members.

Please provide some recent examples of what you mean by the double standard you mention.....

- Justin

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

Please provide some recent examples of what you mean by the double standard you mention.....

- Justin

Toronto Maple Leafs thread, the 1st one.

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Tsar

Toronto Maple Leafs thread, the 1st one.

And you played no part in that? BTW, which of these rules were you 'enforcing' in that thread?

First things first.....this is not a war forum.

We will not tolerate personal attacks against our members. We would also ask that you refrain from using confrontational language and/or phrases.

No off color or offensive language is permitted.

We ask that everyone conducts themselves in a mature manner.

No sexually explicit or suggestive content is is allowed. This includes pictures, links, signatures, avatars, etc. If you aren't sure about something, we advise that you err on the side of caution and keep it to yourself.

If you feel that another member has taken a topic or issue with yourself or someone else too far, please report the post(s) in question to the admins/moderators. This is done by clicking on the Report Post icon (the red triangle with an exclamation point) found underneath the person's username and avatar.

These rules can and will be updated as is deemed necessary.

Consequences for violating these rules will range from a warning to suspensions, and in extreme cases, a permanent ban from the club forums.

Thank you for your support of the NJFBOA.

I'm still missing the big deal here.

[Tsar]

I played no part in it, i pointed out someone elses mistakes. I can't delete posts like you or any other mods so there was nothing left to do.

rules broken:
1. We would also ask that you refrain from using confrontational language and/or phrases
2. We ask that everyone conducts themselves in a mature manner.

There's also the unwritten rule of no flaming, maybe you weren't a mod long enough to remember that one. And stamement such as "hockey sucks" is surely flaming and not an off topic disscussion.

I didn't make the rules. And as Justin said you have to follow them too. Any other questions you'd like me to answer?

[BonzoHansen]

If you feel that another member has taken a topic or issue with yourself or someone else too far, please report the post(s) in question to the admins/moderators. This is done by clicking on the Report Post icon (the red triangle with an exclamation point) found underneath the person's username and avatar.

You miss this one?

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

You miss this one?

no i did not miss that one, reporting the post of the Admin would do absolutely nothing. I still have no idea why the thread was deleted, instead tim's comments should've been erased and the thread should've been continued. What else you got for me chief?

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Tsar

no i did not miss that one, reporting the post of the Admin would do absolutely nothing. I still have no idea why the thread was deleted, instead tim's comments should've been erased and the thread should've been continued. What else you got for me chief?

You are wrong. J0n used it to report problems with one of his threads and I fixed it.

[GP99GT]

omg, lets report an admins post to the admin...that'll surely work

[Tsar]

Originally Posted by BonzoHansen

You are wrong. J0n used it to report problems with one of his threads and I fixed it.

Alright, next time a non PG word is used and im offended i'll click on the button to see what happens. However if the administration doesn't follow their own rules it's going to make it hard for me to do the same.

[Untamed]

Personally I support the new rules. I can definately see the issue on the language part, though I don't think I've ever felt the need to rip away with a string of four letter words.

I like Kasey's post. I think he hit the nail on the head with the direction and desires of the club on a go-forward basis.

NJFBOA is not only a social club for friends, its a melting pot of car enthusiasts who have a common interest with each other. That common interest pulls us together, but doesn't immediately mean we'll all be good friends. There's a professional element to this since the club is branching out beyond a few friends, to include businesses that may spend money to support our own f-body car interests. As such we, as a club with that common interest, need to decide if we want to include outside businesses that can help us enjoy our interests, or not. If we do, then we need to recognize their needs and desires and act accordingly.

There are lots of social-only clubs out there where the rules are perhaps less strict; but they also lack the common interest of being f-body enthusiasts, with ties to the professional community that helps bolster the auto enthusiasts interests. We don't need to act completely professional here, since this is a club and not a business, but we do need to recognize the type of behavior which will help us achieve our collective goals - enjoy organzied events that are supported by businesses who see these events as marketing or money making opportunities, all while "simply" enjoying the kind of cars we've come to love. Personally I think we can achieve both without any real hardship. I know I've enjoyed the club from it's earliest days to where it is today.

Noah pointed out some of his contributions - that's awesome. I'd like to help more, and will try to find ways. Keep it up guys. No one is saying you cant have fun, and no one is saying you have to change who you are. But you do need to be mindful of the rules, and try to work within them.

[NJSPEEDER]

Originally Posted by Tsar

Alright, next time a non PG word is used and im offended i'll click on the button to see what happens. However if the administration doesn't follow their own rules it's going to make it hard for me to do the same.

so you "feel" like something is going to happen one way and that is your whle justification for how you act towards being asked to participate as the rules set forth?
if you actually payed attention half as much as you claim you would have noticed that all of the mods and both admins have been moderated at some point.
you have still failed to come up with any information or examples that support your position. you have been asked many times on AIM and even in this thread. it would be helpful.
many other members have layed out their concerns and constructive conversation has been the result. continuing to blindly make "nazi" and "ss" comments doesn't serve to support your position.
please feel free to provide examples of successful, small, club forums, that are open free for alls as you would like to see. i have a long list of sites i watched fail as a result of the sort of things you seem to desire seeing, but maybe you can enlighten all of us and find even one site that succeeded.

[Pampered-Z]

OK, I usally stay out of these things, but this time I feel I must add my opinion to this discussion.

I really think it’s a good idea restricting language and conduct in the general forums and offer a "almost anything goes" forum. It makes perfect sense to me.

I didn’t join here just to post in a forum; there are plenty of other forums on the web for that type of interaction. I joined here because I wanted to be part of a local car club! I’m not a lawyer, but I think freedom of speech does not apply if you’re told there are rules to being a member. And if you want to be a member you must adhere to the rules of proper conduct. If anyone doesn't like the rule of the club, then why do you even come here?

I’ve been in other clubs that didn’t match me and I am no longer involved. I did not make it my quest to change others to suit me. This is exactly what happened to MAFBA. The Mid Atlantic F-Body Association has less members then NJFBOA, but any event could draw in excess of 100 members. Even when MAFBA came to the Cops~n~Rodders show members from Virginia, Maryland and the Carolinas came up. Then some members tried changing things, the club got split and instead of the members leaving, or the officers throwing them out, they were allowed to stay and eventually most of the members left and reformed other clubs and MAFBA slowly fell apart.

Right now this club is getting itself into a similar situation. The constant threads of bashing and lame rebuttals do nothing to help promote the club or its members.

Again, I feel this is just like the East Coast Nats. This was a perfect way to promote the club and its members, yet few showed? There were enough classes for everyone to race in as well as various awards, or just to be a spectator. I don’t think people actually realize how much time and efforts went into getting this to happen. How many other clubs can actually pull something like this off? Tim and Justin and a few others worked very hard on this, and Tim did a good job of building classes that will bring in more cars and keep racing fair and prevent class killers for entering. If you follow NMCA, in a few years they went from low budget racing to $100,000 + set-ups that now prevent the common folk from even making the field!

But back to the topic of this forum, I feel the bottom line is that Tim and Justin paid to do this, they should have ever right to decide what is and isn’t acceptable.

As already stated, when someone new comes to this board and sees it is nothing more then a lounge with constant fighting what would make them want to join? And if they don’t join, then the club has the potential to lose out. There are some very knowledgeable people on this site that bring allot of experience and know-how. And although this club and site is not exclusive to F-bodies, I do feel it is still a key reason why most people have joined. But all this knowledge can quickly get lost in all the thread hijacking!

So if anything deemed offensive could result in the loss of members, stop new members from joining, or possible sponsors from joining, then as club members and not just the club founders, we need to certainly address it. This also makes the Basement a perfect venue for post that may push the envelope of 'good taste" or "being offensive" It keeps the general boards open to the masses. While the basement is enter at your own risk. So if certain people are easily offended or thin-skinned, they need not enter. And if they enter they should have no complaints!

If you read all of the post about how these rules can improve this site, then all the post about allowing people to curse or bash other members openly simply don't hold up.

OK, I’ll get off my soap box now.

John

[Brando56894]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyKane

Maybe a reason a handful of the "ancient" members / somewhat big posters on here are slowly disappearing?



This forum used to be much more exciting before people started being crybabies, thats what seperated NJFBOA from others, in such a good way, which is really why I dont post much anymore, because that feeling is gone. Unless Im missing something, I never really noticed a "warzone" here. Foul language... i use it alot. The basic "curse" words are found in PG-13 movies, and in order to register to the site, you HAVE to be at least 13 years of age... I dunno, it seems like the rules around here seem a little too tight. I feel like I log into a Christian forum instead of an Fbody forum. Take my "postcount" for instance... when I had my injury back in August 06... i hit the 4200 mark... 6 months have gone and I only posted a little over 250 since then (classified post count being removed too included, which is indeed bull too...) , and Im sitting on my ass all day!!

Originally Posted by BigDaddyKane

Well, Ill state here, what I told Tim earlier. NJFBOA back in its day, was more like a lounge rather an Fbody forum, where people with the same common interests got together on a site and just BS'ed. It had the feeling that... it was an added bonus that you owned an Fbody rather than this being a place of just strict Fbody-talks, reguardless of the New Jersey FBODY name, if anybody understands that. The environment was laid back, and not so uptight and prude, which made it an awesome experience to log on everyday. I dont get that vibe anymore, which is why I dont post much. Wasnt NJFBOA formed as a rebellion to www.njfbody.com because of the way things were ran on that site???

Now I get the vibe of, "Out with the old, in with the new" (member-speaking) REGUARDLESS of how the members who been here since practically day one were in fact the ones passing around flyers on other peoples cars just to help it grow.... and another example, I spent well over 6 hours making little icons for the forum out of good heart to give a better appearance for the site, yet us supporters since day one are getting no say in this "prude" enforment act whatsoever... instead, lets open the doors to kids who barely (if that) have their license to come on here, yap about something stupid they did, expect not to get flamed, and in return... GET flamed, and cry about it. They bring it on themselves. As it stands Ill still be lurking...

noah has alot of good points here, i had alot of stuff typed up but somehow the board screwed up and it got erased. i pretty much agree with everything he says here.

on the other hand, i see where tim and justin are going with the new rules. i had a convo with tim about the new rules and expressed my dislike for them and took into account what he was saying. stuff needs to be paid for, and for us to get more income things need to be cleaned up. myself i liked the club when it was smaller, but hell s*** changes, be it for better or worse, you cant avoid it. i dont like the whole no cursing thing and dont like the idea that we cant post anything that is NWS. ill abide by the rules, even though i dont like them.

one other thing i forgot to add: i like the idea of the basement, from what i hear its supposed to be like the lounge of yesteryears, the thing is idk if the older members that liked the way the club was before all this happened would be willing to pay x amount of $ just to post and joke the way they used to.

[NJSPEEDER]

Originally Posted by Brando56894

one other thing i forgot to add: i like the idea of the basement, from what i hear its supposed to be like the lounge of yesteryears, the thing is idk if the older members that liked the way the club was before all this happened would be willing to pay x amount of $ just to post and joke the way they used to.

as of now there are a few other benefits to the power member program. certainly nothing as big and fancy as we would like, but we promise to add more as things become available.
the reasoning behind including the basement in the power member program was the need for at least one very specific benefit that would interest people. it is something that came out of researching other member supported sites and the programs they run. i agree that it isn't the coolest idea ever, but it does seem to be helping so far.

and your post prolly timed out on you. if you type for more than a few mins the software thinks you have logged off because typing doesn't show as activity until you actually submit the post.

[Brando56894]

on this old board i used to go to and still come by every once in a while, has always had a "restricted area" and you had to have a certain post count to get into, and then there was another forum only for power members (mods,admins, VIP members and board junkies) which was even more secluded (for lack of a better word) i was looking at the "member benefits" thing and the benefits didnt really seem that enticing to me

[BonzoHansen]

Originally Posted by Brando56894

on this old board i used to go to and still come by every once in a while, has always had a "restricted area" and you had to have a certain post count to get into, and then there was another forum only for power members (mods,admins, VIP members and board junkies) which was even more secluded (for lack of a better word) i was looking at the "member benefits" thing and the benefits didnt really seem that enticing to me

Like Tim said, we hope benefits will grow. We discussed what other sites do, such as restrict avatars or signatures (this was mentioned a few posts back), but they felt it was too big a takeaway. Tim & Justin were adamant about that.

So the only real takeaway from the members was foul language (basically 8pm TV safe/work safe) and attacking other people. Which really is not a big change. Judging from both private and public comments, we think this is being well received and will be good for the club. Just asking for somewhat civilized behavior and recognition from members that what might be civilized to the average 18-24 year old is not the same for many other people.