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12-09-2009, 08:44 PM
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#51
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Delran
Posts: 6,785
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lol i got my xbox 360 for 199...with a free 100 dollar gift card. screw wireless i have a 75 ft ethernet cable running through my house cause of it...i dont care. as for the reasoning behind buyign the xbox....after playign both at friends houses i like the xbox for the online play better....ps3 is a more well rounded entertainment system....just not for me.
oh yeah...plus netflix on my tv owns  no more huddling around the cpu to stream off netflix
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12-09-2009, 08:47 PM
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#52
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MIR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NastyEllEssWon
oh yeah...plus netflix on my tv owns  no more huddling around the cpu to stream off netflix
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Um..PS3 streams netflix too.
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12-09-2009, 09:29 PM
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#53
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 2,295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar
Um..PS3 streams netflix too.
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But having both the PS3 Netfilx and 360 Netflix the quality on the Xbox is alot better.
__________________
Jeff
2002 WS6 T/A.. M6..Built 383 TMR tune..461rwhp,458rwtq
2009 G8 GT. Bone stock 13.6@103.. Vararam Intake, GXP Axlebacks, LS2 FRC's
1998 Corvette Convertible, Vararam Intake+Power Duct, Fast 90/90, Ti Axleback..12.8@110
2003 Cobra Convertible 10th Anniversary
http://www.fquick.com/slow-v6
Local car cruise schedule..
http://www.cliffscalendar.com/
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12-09-2009, 09:41 PM
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#54
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 2,295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurninrubberGT
xbox - 300
make it wireless- 100
you want a cheap blu ray player?- 150
you wanna go online for a year? (it is 10x better than ps3 online)- 50
total- 600
ps3 with everything above- 300
plus the ps3 can go online (websites and such) which the xbox cannot
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You forgot to mention that the 360 comes with 2 games, and HD/HDMI Cable. My 40 gig PS3 didnt even come with HD cables at all and my old 20 gig didnt have a Wireless network adapter nor came with HD cables.
both my 360 and PS3 are wired in to my Router. Dont like the wireless thing. I have a nice laptop to surf the internet so I really dont care if the PS3 can surf the net. My PS3 is a DVD player and that is about it. I played a handfull of games on it but when it comes down to it the Xbox is the better Gaming system with a bigger and better collection of games. Besides the games on the Xbox the Facebook, Twitter, and Last.FM are really cool additions. I also love playing 1 Vrs 100 with 50,000 other people online at one time. Very cool.
I give all systems a chance. I still have my Sega CDX sitting next to my Turbo Graphx 16.
__________________
Jeff
2002 WS6 T/A.. M6..Built 383 TMR tune..461rwhp,458rwtq
2009 G8 GT. Bone stock 13.6@103.. Vararam Intake, GXP Axlebacks, LS2 FRC's
1998 Corvette Convertible, Vararam Intake+Power Duct, Fast 90/90, Ti Axleback..12.8@110
2003 Cobra Convertible 10th Anniversary
http://www.fquick.com/slow-v6
Local car cruise schedule..
http://www.cliffscalendar.com/
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12-09-2009, 09:53 PM
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#55
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 2,295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar
So it's true, how often do you need to change those?
P.S. Last time I checked, my PS3 controller rumbled with no problems.
If you were referring to me you just failed because I didn't talk **** about xbox.
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They or mine last about 30-40 hrs of gameplay before recharge. I Charge them about once 2 weeks. We usually have the Xbox on 4-5hrs a day between me,my wife and my daughter.
Oh and my PS3 controller is a pre rumbler. They just incorperated the Rumbler early this year I believe.
I dont care if you were talking **** or not I was just saying most of the people that talk smack on the Xbox that dont own one.
__________________
Jeff
2002 WS6 T/A.. M6..Built 383 TMR tune..461rwhp,458rwtq
2009 G8 GT. Bone stock 13.6@103.. Vararam Intake, GXP Axlebacks, LS2 FRC's
1998 Corvette Convertible, Vararam Intake+Power Duct, Fast 90/90, Ti Axleback..12.8@110
2003 Cobra Convertible 10th Anniversary
http://www.fquick.com/slow-v6
Local car cruise schedule..
http://www.cliffscalendar.com/
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12-09-2009, 10:17 PM
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#56
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 2,295
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I just want to make sure everyone who says that the Xbox controller is huge and alot bigger then the PS3 controller that the 360 and original Xbox are different systems and different controllers.
I took some pics of my Elites controller next to my PS3 controller and wii controller.
__________________
Jeff
2002 WS6 T/A.. M6..Built 383 TMR tune..461rwhp,458rwtq
2009 G8 GT. Bone stock 13.6@103.. Vararam Intake, GXP Axlebacks, LS2 FRC's
1998 Corvette Convertible, Vararam Intake+Power Duct, Fast 90/90, Ti Axleback..12.8@110
2003 Cobra Convertible 10th Anniversary
http://www.fquick.com/slow-v6
Local car cruise schedule..
http://www.cliffscalendar.com/
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12-09-2009, 10:32 PM
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#57
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MIR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow-V6
But having both the PS3 Netfilx and 360 Netflix the quality on the Xbox is alot better.
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Oh come on man! Put the fanboy glasses down. According to the VP of Netflix the streaming standard is the same for all independent devices, PC, XBOX, and PS3.. So what would make the quality so much better on xbox? Unless netflix streams in HD to xbox, which I don't think is the case, it's simply not true.
I watched a movie with the gf recently via netflix stream and it looked like a normal dvd, nothing better, nothing worse. After watching bluray it makes me not want to watch dvd's anymore.
Plus I found out this additional tidbit, one needs xbox gold membership (or w/e is called) to access netflix? So you have to pay twice? by this I mean netflix and xbox yearly dues? Sounds like a screw job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow-V6
You forgot to mention that the 360 comes with 2 games, and HD/HDMI Cable. My 40 gig PS3 didnt even come with HD cables at all and my old 20 gig didnt have a Wireless network adapter nor came with HD cables.
both my 360 and PS3 are wired in to my Router. Dont like the wireless thing. I have a nice laptop to surf the internet so I really dont care if the PS3 can surf the net. My PS3 is a DVD player and that is about it. I played a handfull of games on it but when it comes down to it the Xbox is the better Gaming system with a bigger and better collection of games. Besides the games on the Xbox the Facebook, Twitter, and Last.FM are really cool additions. I also love playing 1 Vrs 100 with 50,000 other people online at one time. Very cool.
I give all systems a chance. I still have my Sega CDX sitting next to my Turbo Graphx 16.
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I was recently at Best Buy and the games that come in xbox bundle were lego batman and some other crap. Sorry, but I would throw those games in a dumpster. I know that games are personal preference and all, but those were garbage. As far as xbox having a better collection of games that's a personal preference, I have yet to find a game that I want to play and that is not available to me. And no I do not want to play Halo.
And as you mentioned in your other post, we are talking about now. They don't make the non wireless PS3 anymore. It's either 120gig $299 or 349 for 250gig. So that point as moot, because OP would be buying one right now, not some pre used pos 20 gig from god knows when.
As far as HDMI cables go, you can buy a 6 ft HDMI cable for 5 bucks, that's hardly worth any argument.
Oh, and you should use Bluray instead of DVD's - waay better.
EDIT* controllers are all about preference, I simply prefer the PS3 one. There can't be any logical argument about MY preference.
Last edited by Tsar; 12-09-2009 at 10:34 PM.
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12-09-2009, 10:38 PM
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#58
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: south & north nj
Posts: 1,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow-V6
You forgot to mention that the 360 comes with 2 games, and HD/HDMI Cable. My 40 gig PS3 didnt even come with HD cables at all and my old 20 gig didnt have a Wireless network adapter nor came with HD cables.
both my 360 and PS3 are wired in to my Router. Dont like the wireless thing. I have a nice laptop to surf the internet so I really dont care if the PS3 can surf the net. My PS3 is a DVD player and that is about it. I played a handfull of games on it but when it comes down to it the Xbox is the better Gaming system with a bigger and better collection of games. Besides the games on the Xbox the Facebook, Twitter, and Last.FM are really cool additions. I also love playing 1 Vrs 100 with 50,000 other people online at one time. Very cool.
I give all systems a chance. I still have my Sega CDX sitting next to my Turbo Graphx 16.
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actually the xb does not come with hd cables, it comes with basic av
we are talking about current systems, so a 20gb/40gb ps3 do not apply
the xbox comes with lego batman and pure, big woop, you have to replace the system in 2 years anyway when it rr's
as of now, the ps3 might have less total games, but has better exclusive games
and blu ray can store more data and better grafix than a regular dvd can
i have both, i play the xbox more, i just hate xb fan boys and how xb is the greatest thing ever made(not saying your one), the xb is the worse system mechanically ever made, even the "fixed" ones break
what i posted was to show the value, not what each indvidual person likes
__________________
99 Legacy - slow winter dd
04 GTO - less slower summer dd
84 Trans Am - Father's car - all original / original owner
Last edited by BurninrubberGT; 12-09-2009 at 10:41 PM.
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12-09-2009, 10:45 PM
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#59
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 2,295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar
So what would make the quality so much better on xbox? Unless netflix streams in HD to xbox, which I don't think is the case, it's simply not true.
Plus I found out this additional tidbit, one needs xbox gold membership (or w/e is called) to access netflix? So you have to pay twice? by this I mean netflix and xbox yearly dues? Sounds like a screw job.
And as you mentioned in your other post, we are talking about now. They don't make the non wireless PS3 anymore. It's either 120gig $299 or 349 for 250gig. So that point as moot, because OP would be buying one right now, not some pre used pos 20 gig from god knows when.
As far as HDMI cables go, you can buy a 6 ft HDMI cable for 5 bucks, that's hardly worth any argument.
Oh, and you should use Bluray instead of DVD's - waay better.
EDIT* controllers are all about preference, I simply prefer the PS3 one. There can't be any logical argument about MY preference.
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Um you Really need to spend a day with a 360 to get to know what you are talking about.. Netflix does stream HD on the Xbox. Not all Movies but certain movies stream in HD.. But the standard Definition is better on the Xbox as well as the sound. I know this because I HAVE BOTH AND USE THE SAME TV ON BOTH.Both systems are setup 1080p.. Since you dont have both you have nothing to compare it to.
I gladly pay my 4.00 a month for XBL and 8.00 for netflix. I dont know Better quality movies, Best online gaming and envioment vrs the PSN. Gladly!! Like I said there are over 26 million XBL gold members out there. There are more XBL Gold members then there are PS3 owners in the world.
As far as the wireless goes I had a 20 gig PS3 which did not have Wireless. At least I could still play my PS2 games on it.
Bluray is way better then regular DVDs but I dont buy them. Thats another reason I have netflix. I dont like spending 30 + dollars on DVDs.
__________________
Jeff
2002 WS6 T/A.. M6..Built 383 TMR tune..461rwhp,458rwtq
2009 G8 GT. Bone stock 13.6@103.. Vararam Intake, GXP Axlebacks, LS2 FRC's
1998 Corvette Convertible, Vararam Intake+Power Duct, Fast 90/90, Ti Axleback..12.8@110
2003 Cobra Convertible 10th Anniversary
http://www.fquick.com/slow-v6
Local car cruise schedule..
http://www.cliffscalendar.com/
Last edited by Slow-V6; 12-09-2009 at 10:51 PM.
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12-09-2009, 10:51 PM
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#60
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 2,295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurninrubberGT
actually the xb does not come with hd cables, it comes with basic av
we are talking about current systems, so a 20gb/40gb ps3 do not apply
the xbox comes with lego batman and pure, big woop, you have to replace the system in 2 years anyway when it rr's
as of now, the ps3 might have less total games, but has better exclusive games
and blu ray can store more data and better grafix than a regular dvd can
i have both, i play the xbox more, i just hate xb fan boys and how xb is the greatest thing ever made(not saying your one), the xb is the worse system mechanically ever made, even the "fixed" ones break
what i posted was to show the value, not what each indvidual person likes
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Both my Xbox elite and 60 gig Xbox came with HDMI cables and the HD Componant cables.
Yes the Xbox did break alot but it also comes with a 3 year warrenty. My 20 Gig PS3 broke after 100 days of having it. The warrenty was a 90 day warrenty and I was SOL. I had to purchase a used 40 gig to take its place. My Elite is going on 3 years without a issue and I traded my 60 Pro for a Wii for my daughter.
So why do you play the XB more?
__________________
Jeff
2002 WS6 T/A.. M6..Built 383 TMR tune..461rwhp,458rwtq
2009 G8 GT. Bone stock 13.6@103.. Vararam Intake, GXP Axlebacks, LS2 FRC's
1998 Corvette Convertible, Vararam Intake+Power Duct, Fast 90/90, Ti Axleback..12.8@110
2003 Cobra Convertible 10th Anniversary
http://www.fquick.com/slow-v6
Local car cruise schedule..
http://www.cliffscalendar.com/
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12-09-2009, 10:52 PM
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#61
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MIR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow-V6
U the standard Definition is better on the Xbox as well as the sound.
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I'll leave it at this  I guess VP of Netflix is a fool. You tell him.
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12-09-2009, 10:53 PM
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#62
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 2,295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar
Yea controllers are love or hate type of thing on both systems. Usually if you like xbox controllers you will hate ps3 controllers, reverse also applies.
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I like them both. They both feel good for the right game.
__________________
Jeff
2002 WS6 T/A.. M6..Built 383 TMR tune..461rwhp,458rwtq
2009 G8 GT. Bone stock 13.6@103.. Vararam Intake, GXP Axlebacks, LS2 FRC's
1998 Corvette Convertible, Vararam Intake+Power Duct, Fast 90/90, Ti Axleback..12.8@110
2003 Cobra Convertible 10th Anniversary
http://www.fquick.com/slow-v6
Local car cruise schedule..
http://www.cliffscalendar.com/
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12-09-2009, 10:54 PM
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#63
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 2,295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar
I'll leave it at this  I guess VP of Netflix is a fool. You tell him.
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Becuase they dont stream in HD Like you said right!!
Come over and we can watch a movie on the XB and then one on the PS and tell me which one looks/sounds better.
__________________
Jeff
2002 WS6 T/A.. M6..Built 383 TMR tune..461rwhp,458rwtq
2009 G8 GT. Bone stock 13.6@103.. Vararam Intake, GXP Axlebacks, LS2 FRC's
1998 Corvette Convertible, Vararam Intake+Power Duct, Fast 90/90, Ti Axleback..12.8@110
2003 Cobra Convertible 10th Anniversary
http://www.fquick.com/slow-v6
Local car cruise schedule..
http://www.cliffscalendar.com/
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12-09-2009, 10:59 PM
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#64
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MIR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow-V6
Becuase they dont stream in HD Like you said right!!
Come over and we can watch a movie on the XB and then one on the PS and tell me which one looks/sounds better.
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You said standard definition is better on xbox that ps3. HD is not standard definition, plus you said that it's not for ALL the movies, only for some. Kinda a moot point. Although HD streaming is nice, I'm sure it will be on PS3 soon enough.
Edit* HD streaming is only available for 300 movies.. come on now.
Last edited by Tsar; 12-09-2009 at 10:59 PM.
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12-09-2009, 11:00 PM
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#65
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 2,295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar
Although HD streaming is nice, I'm sure it will be on PS3 soon enough..
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I hope so too!!
__________________
Jeff
2002 WS6 T/A.. M6..Built 383 TMR tune..461rwhp,458rwtq
2009 G8 GT. Bone stock 13.6@103.. Vararam Intake, GXP Axlebacks, LS2 FRC's
1998 Corvette Convertible, Vararam Intake+Power Duct, Fast 90/90, Ti Axleback..12.8@110
2003 Cobra Convertible 10th Anniversary
http://www.fquick.com/slow-v6
Local car cruise schedule..
http://www.cliffscalendar.com/
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12-09-2009, 11:01 PM
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#66
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: south & north nj
Posts: 1,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow-V6
Both my Xbox elite and 60 gig Xbox came with HDMI cables and the HD Componant cables.
Yes the Xbox did break alot but it also comes with a 3 year warrenty. My 20 Gig PS3 broke after 100 days of having it. The warrenty was a 90 day warrenty and I was SOL. I had to purchase a used 40 gig to take its place. My Elite is going on 3 years without a issue and I traded my 60 Pro for a Wii for my daughter.
So why do you play the XB more?
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-they havent made xb's with hd cables in awhile
-PS3's have 1 year warranty's
-the new xbox's do not have 3 year warranties, they have 1
-ive personally seen MICROSOFT refurbished 360's come back in a week with rr's (2 different systems in 1 week)
-they said they fixed the problem 2 years ago, when actually they just delayed the rr's on the consoles by a couple months, not to mention even the slightest movement of the xbox with a disk inside will automatically carve a perfect ring into the disc, and you know how much it would cost microsfot to fix the problem? less than $1 a system, but they wont
i play the xbox more because my friends have it, i dont play video games much. i would however take killzone 2 and uncharted over gears and halo any day
__________________
99 Legacy - slow winter dd
04 GTO - less slower summer dd
84 Trans Am - Father's car - all original / original owner
Last edited by BurninrubberGT; 12-09-2009 at 11:03 PM.
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12-09-2009, 11:05 PM
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#67
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 2,295
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Its nice having a console war like this because you get the best out of each system.
I also dread doing a software update on the PS3. I have heard a buch of Horror stories of systems not playing Blurays after install.
__________________
Jeff
2002 WS6 T/A.. M6..Built 383 TMR tune..461rwhp,458rwtq
2009 G8 GT. Bone stock 13.6@103.. Vararam Intake, GXP Axlebacks, LS2 FRC's
1998 Corvette Convertible, Vararam Intake+Power Duct, Fast 90/90, Ti Axleback..12.8@110
2003 Cobra Convertible 10th Anniversary
http://www.fquick.com/slow-v6
Local car cruise schedule..
http://www.cliffscalendar.com/
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12-09-2009, 11:07 PM
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#68
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: south & north nj
Posts: 1,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow-V6
Its nice having a console war like this because you get the best out of each system.
I also dread doing a software update on the PS3. I have heard a buch of Horror stories of systems not playing Blurays after install.
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ok yes, the software updates are scary bad, but i have never had or heard of problems with blu rays
this is great for the OP lol
__________________
99 Legacy - slow winter dd
04 GTO - less slower summer dd
84 Trans Am - Father's car - all original / original owner
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12-09-2009, 11:08 PM
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#69
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MIR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,692
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Haven't had a problem with software updates.
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12-09-2009, 11:10 PM
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#70
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: south & north nj
Posts: 1,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar
Haven't had a problem with software updates. 
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you have optimum? i have dsl, it takes like 30-40 min to do updates, but my friend has optimum and never has long updates...so i guess my dsl just sucks
__________________
99 Legacy - slow winter dd
04 GTO - less slower summer dd
84 Trans Am - Father's car - all original / original owner
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12-09-2009, 11:11 PM
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#71
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MIR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,692
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As I'm reading more about this HD streaming for PS3, it's available now but you need a better internet connection than I have. So I'm s.o.l., I'll check tomorrow if I can find any HD titles on the ps3. I won't be able to stream them though. Thanks service electric.
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12-09-2009, 11:13 PM
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#72
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MIR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurninrubberGT
you have optimum? i have dsl, it takes like 30-40 min to do updates, but my friend has optimum and never has long updates...so i guess my dsl just sucks
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I have service electric cable, it's slow so it takes about 25 - 30 minutes to do updates.
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12-09-2009, 11:25 PM
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#73
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 2,295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurninrubberGT
-they havent made xb's with hd cables in awhile
-PS3's have 1 year warranty's
-the new xbox's do not have 3 year warranties, they have 1
-ive personally seen MICROSOFT refurbished 360's come back in a week with rr's (2 different systems in 1 week)
-they said they fixed the problem 2 years ago, when actually they just delayed the rr's on the consoles by a couple months, not to mention even the slightest movement of the xbox with a disk inside will automatically carve a perfect ring into the disc, and you know how much it would cost microsfot to fix the problem? less than $1 a system, but they wont
i play the xbox more because my friends have it, i dont play video games much. i would however take killzone 2 and uncharted over gears and halo any day
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- I guess it is good that I have a old POS console then.
- Like I said above
- I personally had a PS3 Break and Sony on the phone said oh well. Tuff luck. Go buy a new one. Best quality out there!! I use to be a Sony only fanboy. Hell I still had both my PS1 and PS2 untill last year. I would rather have a Xbox break every week on me then have another PS3 go out. I have friends who are on there 7th 360. They say that they dont mind it breaking because they get a refurbed one for free with a new 3 yr warrenty every time and it is a week turnaround.
The problem was the Heat sink lifting off the motherboard. I dont know if they fixed it or not and I really dont care. I have bought 8 360's since 2006. 5 of them given away for gifts and 3 of them I had personally. Never had a problem with one of them nor the people I gave them to. Hell I bought 5 of them in 2006. I bought 2 PS3's since 2006. 1 Broke a little over 3 months of having it and the other is still kicking even though it is used as a BR player. As far as the slightest movement with a game in it that doesnt happen to mine.
__________________
Jeff
2002 WS6 T/A.. M6..Built 383 TMR tune..461rwhp,458rwtq
2009 G8 GT. Bone stock 13.6@103.. Vararam Intake, GXP Axlebacks, LS2 FRC's
1998 Corvette Convertible, Vararam Intake+Power Duct, Fast 90/90, Ti Axleback..12.8@110
2003 Cobra Convertible 10th Anniversary
http://www.fquick.com/slow-v6
Local car cruise schedule..
http://www.cliffscalendar.com/
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12-09-2009, 11:29 PM
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#74
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 2,295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsar
I have service electric cable, it's slow so it takes about 25 - 30 minutes to do updates.
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Thats one thing Sony should take care of. I had DSL, Fios, and now Comcast and on each service the PS updates take forever. DSL tool 40-50 mins, Fios 15 mins, and now comcast well I havent tried it yet. The Xbox took 5 mins on DSl and is 1 min on the Cable and Fios and it is done. Also I hate having to download a update on the PS3 which takes 30mins and then having to Install it which takes another 5-10 mins.
__________________
Jeff
2002 WS6 T/A.. M6..Built 383 TMR tune..461rwhp,458rwtq
2009 G8 GT. Bone stock 13.6@103.. Vararam Intake, GXP Axlebacks, LS2 FRC's
1998 Corvette Convertible, Vararam Intake+Power Duct, Fast 90/90, Ti Axleback..12.8@110
2003 Cobra Convertible 10th Anniversary
http://www.fquick.com/slow-v6
Local car cruise schedule..
http://www.cliffscalendar.com/
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12-09-2009, 11:37 PM
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#75
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Delran
Posts: 6,785
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the new jasper motherboard runs on 12 volts as opposed to 14v (falcon) and 16v for the original...ive spent time with both systems at a friends house...which helped me make my decision. The xbox live i dont mind paying for...its not like your paying for netflix twice your paying for access to everything that xbox live has to offer.
my friends ps3 is hit or miss with the updates...50 percent it takes like an hour to update or the other half it just freezes in the middle. biggest thing ive had happen on live was the game get moved to a new host.  worth the 5 bucks a month
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