2013 Cruze diesel

[1QWIKBIRD]

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

The article states that the diesel cruze in australia averages 34mpg combined, which is pretty decent. For comparison sake, fueleconomy.gov states the 2010 4 door Jetta TDI is also rated at 34mpg combined, and users are reporting an average of 38.1 combined.

While I would love to see world beating numbers out of this car, I would be perfectly happy as long as it ends up with similar mpg numbers and still comes in a bit cheaper than the Jetta. The warranty alone would be a gib selling point for a lot of people with long highway commutes that choose the TDIs.

A friend of mine just traded in his '05 Mini Cooper S on a 2011 Golf TDI, and the only downside he's worried about is the fact that his 36k mile warranty will be shot in less than 2 years due to his commute (Easton, PA to Princeton, NJ).

- Justin

I bet your buddy gets close to 50 mpg once that thing gets some miles on it. For the American driving public to take the leap to diesel power, there has to be substantial reward. That reward is over the top fuel efficiency. Its a shame GM F'd up so badly with their last diesel effort in the late 70's early to mid 80's with passenger cars. That is going to be a huge, huge, huge stigma to overcome.

I came real close to buying a 2010 Jetta TDI late last year, purely for the mileage reason, but ultimately decided I enjoy not having a car payment. But I did test drive one, and they are a pretty decent ride. Not out of this world luxurious, but better than average for daily transportation. Right now though there are problems bubbling under the surface for VW, as they seem to have a problem with the High Pressure Fuel Pump failing on the new TDI's (09-10 models) and when it does it takes out the entire fuel system to the tune of a $6000-8000 repair bill. VW has been inconsistent on the warranty end covering this. Sometimes they do, other times they fight and try to wiggle out. Either way, the NHTSB is looking into a potential recall. So maybe GM can capitalize on this VW misstep?

In other news I saw a Volt on the road (Turnpike rest stop of all places) on Sunday. Not a bad looking car at all. Much better looking than the Prius. Owners said the car far exceeded their expectations so far. Downside, the furthest they have made it on electric power is 25 miles???? That's lame.

[BigAls87Z28]

The Cruze already pulls down 42mpg in gas model. The Cruze I had, the non-eco, pulled down 26mpg in city driving in snow. The Eco models seem to be pulling down high 30's, 40's in test runs.

I was very unimpressed with the new Jetta. Really really cheap insides and boring outsides is really depressing, especially when Chevy, Ford and now Hyundai have much more appealing vehicles all getting 40mpg or better in gas, non hybrid mode.

[1QWIKBIRD]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

The Cruze already pulls down 42mpg in gas model. The Cruze I had, the non-eco, pulled down 26mpg in city driving in snow. The Eco models seem to be pulling down high 30's, 40's in test runs.

I was very unimpressed with the new Jetta. Really really cheap insides and boring outsides is really depressing, especially when Chevy, Ford and now Hyundai have much more appealing vehicles all getting 40mpg or better in gas, non hybrid mode.

Which vehicles are they? According to fueleconomy.gov, in the small car class (where they class the Jetta), VW is the highest rated non hybrid/electric vehicle in its class (not including the Smart Car) when sorted by city mpg and only the cruze is equal based on highway mpg? No Fords, Hynduai's or Chevy gasoline only powered vehicle is above any of VW diesels. And in the real world, the diesel VW's kill on mpg. Talk to some real world owners next time you see one fueling up. It a common theme with every owner I've talked to, they get incredible fuel mileage. I'm not necessarily pro VW, but I am pro diesel and VW is the only company the offers an affordable diesel powered car. So GM needs to get this diesel right and they need to hit mid 40's on the MPG's or they can forget ever getting another shot at selling diesel power to the american motoring public (truck market excluded). Because if they can't do SUBSTANTIALLY better on the MPG, what would be the sales pitch to the motoring public?

Longevity? Don't think so, we are a throw away society (sad but true) and newer cars are generally good for 150,000 with basic maintenance anyway.

Performance (like big HP kinda performance)? Not really the hallmark of diesel power.

Reliability? Maybe, but again, new cars are generally pretty reliable.

So without the superior fuel economy, what advantage does diesel power hold, especially if its priced higher than reg. gas (which makes no sense)?

Maybe that's the real equation, MP$

Build me a worthy diesel powered car GM, I dare ya. I don't want some POS engine slathered with onstar, heated seats and navigation units, tire pressure monitoring, and other mindless BS. Concentrate on the engine first and foremost, then outfit the car only after you have succeeded with the engine/drivetrain.

Oh by the way, my 6600lb 14 year old Cummins powered Dodge 2500 4x4 just turned 242,000 and got 19.3 mpg (combined driving) on its last load of fuel (winter blend no less). Love that diesel power..........love it love it love it.

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

Diesels do smell, drive around in a European country for a day and you'll have the black lung.

Originally Posted by LTs1ow

If I had a drink in my mouth when I read that I would have spit it all over the window here at work. I think that is the funniest thing I have read in years.

Oh and Europe smells because they have open sewer systems, not because of the smelly deisel systems in cars

Originally Posted by 1QWIKBIRD

tire pressure monitoring, and other mindless BS.

TPMS was government mandated in 09 I believe

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

TPMS was government mandated in 09 I believe

2008. They're a pain, I get customers calling me every day whining that the cold weather makes the light or warning go off lol

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Frosty

2008. They're a pain, I get customers calling me every day whining that the cold weather makes the light or warning go off lol

I couldnt remember, all I know is that my car doesnt have them and I wish it did 07 Solstice... Mine is also an early 07 build so I dont have the electric seat but the wire is there to plug it in. Oh and no "unlock" button in the car at all, have to turn around or use the fob

[Frosty]

Wow, that's borderline retarded lol

[PolarBear]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Wow, that's borderline retarded lol

Borderline, no I think it is. Damn it! Someone find me a Solstice Hardtop 5 speed! Dont care which color and I dont care if it is a GXP. I would get unlock buttons, TPMS AND and electric seat!

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

Oh and Europe smells because they have open sewer systems, not because of the smelly deisel systems in cars

And because some of them do not bathe regularly.

This is pretty cool though. Depending on price I may go for one.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

Borderline, no I think it is. Damn it!

lol, I said borderline because I wasn't trying to insult the car

[WiMiMc]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

And because some of them do not bathe regularly.

hey they bathe every other month whether they need it or not

[91chevywt]

I'd love to see the American companies build diesel cars...I don't know anybody that's buying into this electric car stuff in my area. I'd rather have a car that runs on gas or diesel, or any other fuel that we would make available to the public

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by 1QWIKBIRD

Which vehicles are they? According to fueleconomy.gov, in the small car class (where they class the Jetta), VW is the highest rated non hybrid/electric vehicle in its class (not including the Smart Car) when sorted by city mpg and only the cruze is equal based on highway mpg? No Fords, Hynduai's or Chevy gasoline only powered vehicle is above any of VW diesels. And in the real world, the diesel VW's kill on mpg. Talk to some real world owners next time you see one fueling up. It a common theme with every owner I've talked to, they get incredible fuel mileage. I'm not necessarily pro VW, but I am pro diesel and VW is the only company the offers an affordable diesel powered car. So GM needs to get this diesel right and they need to hit mid 40's on the MPG's or they can forget ever getting another shot at selling diesel power to the american motoring public (truck market excluded). Because if they can't do SUBSTANTIALLY better on the MPG, what would be the sales pitch to the motoring public?

Longevity? Don't think so, we are a throw away society (sad but true) and newer cars are generally good for 150,000 with basic maintenance anyway.

Performance (like big HP kinda performance)? Not really the hallmark of diesel power.

Reliability? Maybe, but again, new cars are generally pretty reliable.

So without the superior fuel economy, what advantage does diesel power hold, especially if its priced higher than reg. gas (which makes no sense)?

Maybe that's the real equation, MP$

Build me a worthy diesel powered car GM, I dare ya. I don't want some POS engine slathered with onstar, heated seats and navigation units, tire pressure monitoring, and other mindless BS. Concentrate on the engine first and foremost, then outfit the car only after you have succeeded with the engine/drivetrain.

Oh by the way, my 6600lb 14 year old Cummins powered Dodge 2500 4x4 just turned 242,000 and got 19.3 mpg (combined driving) on its last load of fuel (winter blend no less). Love that diesel power..........love it love it love it.

Whoaaaaaa...easy big fella.

GM has very good, world class diesel engines, and they put them in the Cruze already, but not for the US.
The Cruze Eco manual pulls down 42mpg. The ONLY car that matches it is the VW Jetta TDI in manual.

All that "fancy" stuff has NOTHING to do with the engine. While some of you guys have been under a rock, the auto industry is fighting tooth and nail trying to offer the most featuers for the least amount of money in this segment.

While VW sells a large number of diesel Jettas, but Jetta sells in fractions compared to cars like Corolla and Civic which do not offer diesels. And Diesels are a fraction of Jetta sales.
While GM would be 2nd into the market for this semgent, it would have the clear advantage of volume to really become the leader in the diesel compact car segment. Remember that its gunna cost a lot for this engine. Figure an easy 2 grand over any trim, more with an automatic probably.
The Cruze's 1.4T is a very good motor, and they have plenty of room left int he engine to improve it. 42mpg is just the start.

[1QWIKBIRD]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Whoaaaaaa...easy big fella.

GM has very good, world class diesel engines, and they put them in the Cruze already, but not for the US.
The Cruze Eco manual pulls down 42mpg. The ONLY car that matches it is the VW Jetta TDI in manual.

All that "fancy" stuff has NOTHING to do with the engine. While some of you guys have been under a rock, the auto industry is fighting tooth and nail trying to offer the most featuers for the least amount of money in this segment.

While VW sells a large number of diesel Jettas, but Jetta sells in fractions compared to cars like Corolla and Civic which do not offer diesels. And Diesels are a fraction of Jetta sales.
While GM would be 2nd into the market for this semgent, it would have the clear advantage of volume to really become the leader in the diesel compact car segment. Remember that its gunna cost a lot for this engine. Figure an easy 2 grand over any trim, more with an automatic probably.
The Cruze's 1.4T is a very good motor, and they have plenty of room left int he engine to improve it. 42mpg is just the start.

I'm calm, don't worry. I don't live under a rock either, but I don't get to test drive every new car that comes out either. I know people want all the gadgets and warmers and latte machines in the dash, etc. etc.. My fear is that GM will load the car full of that stuff, then miss whole point by putting a diesel engine in the car that doesn't get mid 40's mpg. That would be a complete waste of time, money and effort.

GM may have these wonderful diesel engines in other world markets, so why not bring them here? Certification, yeah I'm sure there's some of that. Real reason? I bet they are hesitant because the american motoring public has such a horrible taste in their mouth from the last GM rodeo with diesels. If GM was willing to lay it on the line for the Volt, they should have the same confidence with diesel power. Maybe to a diesel hybrid? Now that would a first, wouldn't it?

VW is a niche automaker. There is no arguing that. And they give away the 5 cylinder base model (not a very refined engine by most accounts), the 2.0T is much a much better gas option, but that comes with a higher cost. The TDI is an expensive option, compared to the 5 cyl., yet it is still a very affordable car that returns excellent fuel efficiency and a reasonable level of comfort and creature options. The 2010 model I looked at, test drove and came very very close to buying, really only had four major options available: transmission type (manual, auto or shiftable auto, sunroof (yes or no), navigation (yes or no) and I think a wheel upgrade. Interior was a color only option, exterior was color only. The TDI group got you most of the exterior styling upgrades by default.

As for pricing, if VW can price the TDI Jetta (fully equipped, non TDI Cup Versions) at $25K +/- (sticker) and sell them out the door for $23K +/-, GM needs to do the same thing. There's an opportunity to really come over the top and make a statement that could bolster GM's image on lots of fronts. They could wipe out the bad memories people had of their last diesel effort (passenger cars), they could raise their own fleet CAFE standard, they would then have a power train option in all varieties: gas only, electric/hybrid (Volt), diesel. Would they be the only automaker to offer such? That's got to be worth some bragging rights?

They have their commercial for the Corvette and building rockets, how about putting that same design group of smart guys/gals on the task and build a car to not just compete with the TDI, but trump it and don't price yourself out of the market in doing so.

Again, I'm not pro VW. I'm pro diesel. I love my dodge truck and would love to have a diesel powered car to run around in sometimes. VW is the ONLY option right now, unless you are looking at flagship german luxury cars. I gotta believe there is market share there to be had, if the right car is put together at the right price point. But to me it starts with overwhelming fuel mileage capability.

Imagine an electric car that has a range of 5 miles? I see a diesel powered compact/small sedan that gets 32 mpg in the same light. Not a worthwhile venture.

Peace

[HeadlessNorseman]

You figure this mileage thing would be cake work by now...look at the early 90s(when coincidentally, gas was .90 cents a gallon) You have the geo metro, CRX and civic in eco models, the toyota paseo, and some others im probably forgetting, all cars that will grab at least 40 mpg avg in pretty normal travel situations. The geo metros didnt even have fuel injection. I cant understand why its now a big deal for a small car to get 30mpg on the highway. It doesnt help that the aerodynamics of modern cars are total crap, put aside for "style"

[HeadlessNorseman]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...est+Content%29

VW has the right idea here(and gm with the ev1, sad story there). A car with a CDA(drag coefficient times frontal area) as low as this, at around 3.0, would still achieve massive mileage with a more normal power plant. It would require about half as much fuel to drive at 65 than most cars on the road. The cruze CDA is about 7.3, for comparison. My crx HF is around 5.4. Aerodynamics are a key element in econo cars, but nobody really seems to be able to put it together without the car looking hideous

[BigAls87Z28]

I don't think that GM would loss up a diesel model with features. Its likely that it will be a stand alone option on LT and LTZ equiped cars, to replace the 1.4t. Might even be an Eco model.

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by HeadlessNorseman

You figure this mileage thing would be cake work by now...look at the early 90s(when coincidentally, gas was .90 cents a gallon) You have the geo metro, CRX and civic in eco models, the toyota paseo, and some others im probably forgetting, all cars that will grab at least 40 mpg avg in pretty normal travel situations. The geo metros didnt even have fuel injection. I cant understand why its now a big deal for a small car to get 30mpg on the highway. It doesnt help that the aerodynamics of modern cars are total crap, put aside for "style"

Weight is a huge issue here. Look at safety and convenience features in an early 90's Geo Metro vs. anything in the compact segment today. Cars of today are heavy due to the huge increase in required safety features and the fact that people flock towards cars with more doo-dads inside to play with. Sure they could keep the weight down with more use of aluminum and CF over steel, but that adds cost - and people as a whole want all the goodies they can get for the cheapest possible price.

- Justin

[V]

it has 10 airbags... i have yet to find them all...

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by V

it has 10 airbags... i have yet to find them all...

Yup, Cruze has 10 airbags standard. Early 90s Metro had no airbags, no ABS, often no AC, etc. But it was rated at 49mpg (58 for the XFI).

- Justin

[qwikz28]

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

Yup, Cruze has 10 airbags standard. Early 90s Metro had no airbags, no ABS, often no AC, etc. But it was rated at 49mpg (58 for the XFI).

- Justin

Is that with the revised ratings?

[Tru2Chevy]

Originally Posted by qwikz28

Is that with the revised ratings?

No, don't believe so.

- Justin

[qwikz28]

Originally Posted by Tru2Chevy

No, don't believe so.

- Justin

Revised ratings cut the XFI to 47, and the regular to 40. Still impressive and unmatched by any non-hybrid gasoline car out today.

[HeadlessNorseman]

Originally Posted by qwikz28

Revised ratings cut the XFI to 47, and the regular to 40. Still impressive and unmatched by any non-hybrid gasoline car out today.

Your definitely correct about the low weight, which is why the XFI is the city mileage champ. But on the highway, its all about rolling resistance and aero. But no modern cars are as aerodynamic as something like my CRX HF(rated at 49 hwy under the new system i believe, but im still averaging 52-55 mixed) or the first generation insight. Even the modern prius and insight have yet to match the low drag numbers. so thats what i was getting at with the modern engineering thing. Its more of a choice based on style than a safety requirement. Not arguing either just saying the trend is not headed in the right direction yet...super aero plus diesel power

[qwikz28]

Originally Posted by HeadlessNorseman

Your definitely correct about the low weight, which is why the XFI is the city mileage champ. But on the highway, its all about rolling resistance and aero. But no modern cars are as aerodynamic as something like my CRX HF(rated at 49 hwy under the new system i believe, but im still averaging 52-55 mixed) or the first generation insight. Even the modern prius and insight have yet to match the low drag numbers. so thats what i was getting at with the modern engineering thing. Its more of a choice based on style than a safety requirement. Not arguing either just saying the trend is not headed in the right direction yet...super aero plus diesel power

All good points, but while the CRX has a low CD, the old prius equals it, and many new cars best it. This is where I got my info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automob...ag_coefficient

I think about weight and gearing too. CRX is a fun car though. Does it have rust issues?