Sixth Gen Time

[Paul Huryk]

Originally Posted by LTb1ow

They don't seem to reflect that at the track based on Hp claims.

You read my mind...

Seems like many of the late model GM cars do not perform as the HP and weight figures would make you think - ZL1 5th gen and C7 Z06 come to mind immediately. Then again, some cars come under rated - an example is the new McLaren 570/650 runs a lot better than its rated power would equate to.

I doubt very much if any 6th gen (most likely the V6) is going to tip the scales at 3400lbs without a driver, more likely 3550 to 3650 - probably 100lbs less than the 5th gens in similar trim. Waiting for some real numbers, not some estimate GM put out to get publicity.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by transampete

Where are you getting these numbers? I haven't seen any 5th gens under 3900lbs. and based on the overall size and shape I don't see how the 6th gen is any lighter. Does anyone have a link on how much the 6th gen actually weighs.

Based on the simple evolution of things, more safety equipment usually equals more weight.

Originally Posted by Paul Huryk

You read my mind...

Seems like many of the late model GM cars do not perform as the HP and weight figures would make you think - ZL1 5th gen and C7 Z06 come to mind immediately. Then again, some cars come under rated - an example is the new McLaren 570/650 runs a lot better than its rated power would equate to.

I doubt very much if any 6th gen (most likely the V6) is going to tip the scales at 3400lbs without a driver, more likely 3550 to 3650 - probably 100lbs less than the 5th gens in similar trim. Waiting for some real numbers, not some estimate GM put out to get publicity.

GM has said at least 200lbs lighter thanks to all new platform and attention to detail.
I could see if you guys don't trust rumors or if this was a concept car, but lying to the EPA and other regulatory agencies tends to go over poorly. That's not for "publicity" because they would get slaughtered on that from every news source.
GM has focused heavily on weight, no pun intended, and being smaller and built on a platform that GM North America designed for lightness means they were serious.

As for performance numbers from cars like the ZL1, Z06, I haven't seen anything that's disappointing.

[Paul Huryk]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

As for performance numbers from cars like the ZL1, Z06, I haven't seen anything that's disappointing.

C7 Z06 with 650hp trapping 127mph (more like 550hp)

5th gen ZL1 with 580hp trapping between 116 and 119mph - should be well above 120mph at the minimum...

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by Paul Huryk

C7 Z06 with 650hp trapping 127mph (more like 550hp)

5th gen ZL1 with 580hp trapping between 116 and 119mph - should be well above 120mph at the minimum...

All the greatness that is going on with cars like the Z06 and ZL1 but it doesn't drag race well so it's "overrated" and doesn't live up to expectations?

Guess they should have just made a Hellcat type car and called it a day.

[Paul Huryk]

Not at all.

The thing is that with all the development and tech (unlike older cars) to be fast in every category and in all contests is lacking polish. As an example, my 550hp 3500lb Camaro runs the same mph as the Z06 despite having 3 or 4 handicaps that the Vette does not have, along with 100hp less.

The hellcat is a 1 trick pony using overwhelming power as a blunt force instrument, which is what it was meant to do anyway.

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

All the greatness that is going on with cars like the Z06 and ZL1 but it doesn't drag race well so it's "overrated" and doesn't live up to expectations?

Guess they should have just made a Hellcat type car and called it a day.

[sweetbmxrider]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

All the greatness that is going on with cars like the Z06 and ZL1 but it doesn't drag race well so it's "overrated" and doesn't live up to expectations?

Guess they should have just made a Hellcat type car and called it a day.

Power can be found from weight and trap speed. I would think gearing isn't optimal for the 1/4 so they aren't in the powerband enough and through the traps so the numbers don't add up.

[Frosty]

Not everything is about 1/4 mile and trap speed...the ZO6 isn't a drag car.

[LTb1ow]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Not everything about 1/4 mile and trap speed...the ZO6 isn't a drag car.

All I was trying to say was the trap/weight seems off from advertised Hp numbers. And you can launch like crap, baby it, whatever, and your trap will usually remain the same.

I will concede to the gearing being not optimal for 1320 stuff. who knows.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by LTb1ow

All I was trying to say was the trap/weight seems off from advertised Hp numbers. And you can launch like crap, baby it, whatever, and your trap will usually remain the same.

I will concede to the gearing being not optimal for 1320 stuff. who knows.

I get the points, valid points but it's not fair to judge an all around performance car just one drag times and trap speed....the ZO6 and cars like it do much more...this isn't a Hellcat we're talking about here lol

[sweetbmxrider]

Nah, that isn't what we are saying. The et doesn't matter. We are saying the mph isn't matching up to the advertised hp at the given weight. Its a simple math calculation drag racers like to get excited about. My thought is the gearing isn't there to put the car in the powerband and keep it there through the traps. We don't care if its going 13's or 10's. Its the mph that shows the cars power over the given distance at xxxx weight.

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by Paul Huryk

Not at all.

The thing is that with all the development and tech (unlike older cars) to be fast in every category and in all contests is lacking polish. As an example, my 550hp 3500lb Camaro runs the same mph as the Z06 despite having 3 or 4 handicaps that the Vette does not have, along with 100hp less.

The hellcat is a 1 trick pony using overwhelming power as a blunt force instrument, which is what it was meant to do anyway.

I dunno. I was right there with you until I looked up the ZL1's stats:

The ZL1 curb weight is listed at ~4130 or so. Without driver.

Using this calculator

http://www.wallaceracing.com/et-hp-mph.php

and a 200lb driver that gives a trap of 118 which doesn't appear to be too far off.

[Paul Huryk]

Gearing becomes much less of an issue when you have more transmission gears - the new 8 speed autos have 6 non-overdrive gears, 1st gear is usually 4.5:1 or better!

Neither the ZL1 nor Z28 have top speeds exceeding 180mph, meaning that they are geared pretty darn good from Chevy from the get-go.

Bill, you are correct that a 118mph trap speed is pretty close to the 120.5mph theoretical trap speed that the ZL1 should have. Problem is when you see a 114mph trap speed, it is not putting out 580hp.

If the trap speed is a few mph off from the theoretical, all is good - could be friction, traction, gearing... But when its off 5 or 10mph, then there is a disconnect that needs to be explained.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

Nah, that isn't what we are saying. The et doesn't matter. We are saying the mph isn't matching up to the advertised hp at the given weight. Its a simple math calculation drag racers like to get excited about. My thought is the gearing isn't there to put the car in the powerband and keep it there through the traps. We don't care if its going 13's or 10's. Its the mph that shows the cars power over the given distance at xxxx weight.

I said trap speed professor....read. I just happened to throw in ET as well.

[sweetbmxrider]

Originally Posted by Frosty

I said trap speed professor....read. I just happened to throw in ET as well.

Right, but you aren't understanding what I am saying. The 1/4 mile is basically a dyno without the computer. Do these all around performance cars not dyno well?

[WildBillyT]

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider

Right, but you aren't understanding what I am saying. The 1/4 mile is basically a dyno without the computer. Do these all around performance cars not dyno well?

Also a really good question. What are the ZL1s dynoing at?

[IROCZman15]

kinda related..

so, i just went to search for something in the search feature of the website...and since I was not logged in at the moment, I was prompted to answer a "random question"

which was:

"how many generations of camaros are there?"

I entered "6" .. I was told by this website that I was wrong .... interesting!

[NastyEllEssWon]

Originally Posted by IROCZman15

kinda related..

so, i just went to search for something in the search feature of the website...and since I was not logged in at the moment, I was prompted to answer a "random question"

which was:

"how many generations of camaros are there?"

I entered "6" .. I was told by this website that I was wrong .... interesting!

technically the 6th generation isnt on sale yet. so you are wrong

[sweetbmxrider]

Probably should have gone with a constant, le dead firebird

[BonzoHansen]

**** i have to remember how to fix that lol\

edit: fixed!

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by WildBillyT

Also a really good question. What are the ZL1s dynoing at?

Quick Googling says 510-520hp to the wheels, so 15% drivetrain loss puts it right there.

[BonzoHansen]

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/2016-c...190020202.html

[BigAls87Z28]

Yeah, I'm surprised it's taken this long to start hypothesizing about performance models.

LT4 powered ZL1s and what will become of the next gen Z28? The Z28 was such a one-off odd ball car that I don't think GM will ever make another car like that again.

[LTb1ow]

Whats pricing estimated to be for a mid range optioned V8 car?

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by LTb1ow

Whats pricing estimated to be for a mid range optioned V8 car?

Mid to high 30's would be my guess because that's what the market dictates.

[WayFast84]

Question. How big of a factor would gearing have to do with trap speed? I know it could effect et significantly with an extra shift in a stick.