Not this again.

[sweetbmxrider]

The black/yellow wire was probably for the air bag sensor on the rad support.

[LS1ow]

found my problem.


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4466/37008997354_32d051cc82_z.jpg


pigtaais overnighted from japan

[Jersey Mike]

Don't bother. Just zip tie them out of the way.



found my problem.


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4466/37008997354_32d051cc82_z.jpg


pigtaais overnighted from japan

Stop cutting things

[LS1ow]

Refresh me, rad has 2 ports near the cap. 1 above the other. Assuming 1 goes to the overflow and 1 goes to the steam vent?

Upper to Vent
lower to overflow

[LTb1ow]

Top is to overflow, bottom is to steam line, or vent I guess on LS1 stuff

[sweetbmxrider]

STFU, Mike.

:lol:

:-x

Refresh me, rad has 2 ports near the cap. 1 above the other. Assuming 1 goes to the overflow and 1 goes to the steam vent?

Upper to Vent
lower to overflow

Top port is almost always an overflow. Just think, the rad cap has a spring pushing the rubber gasket downward. When the system creates enough pressure, the gasket is pushed upward toward cap allowing the pressure/coolant to bleed off into the overflow.

[The_Bishop]

Port right under rad cap is overflow/surge tank. The other one is the steam vent from the heads.

[PolarBear]

Stop cutting things

Wait, so he is the one that cut the fan connectors off?

[LS1ow]

Wait, so he is the one that cut the fan connectors off?

Most likely. There is a lot of stuff that was cut off on the car when i got it, but i did add to the mess a bit with trying to cut weight lmao Theres a few wires coming off the fuse box that dont like oem that are cut, praying they were just for gauges or something

[PolarBear]

Most likely.

:facepalm:

:rofl:

[LS1ow]

:facepalm:

:rofl:

Im more of a cut 3 times measure the 4th time kinda guy

[Anti_Rice_Guy]

Im more of a cut 3 times measure the 4th time kinda guy

We had no idea :nick:

[LS1ow]

Harness for e-fans has been mended. Hose for steam vent and overflow done.

Also ran the cable from the starter peg to the fuse box. Not sure if I like how it’s ran, will post pics tmmr. It’s start-passenger frame rail, across the bottom of the lower rad support(like behind the air dam) then up threw the body were the air pump used to be and to the post on the box. Having it ran across the bottom of the rad kinda erks me.

Pics tmmr

[LS1ow]

Heres how its ran, not sure if im okay with it. kinda scared im gunna rip it off were it is. May reevaluate today before doing other cables.

How do you guys feel?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4473/37075018803_bc216603c6_z.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4470/37745328851_ba12bb4709_z.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4443/37036093264_419c71ca5e_z.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4487/37696962416_ee9286d644_z.jpg

[wretched73]

Couldn't you run it along the firewall then down to the starter? wouldn't that be shorter?

That's a lot of very expensive wire

[sweetbmxrider]

My throat is sore, thanks for asking.

I'd just move it up an inch or two so its behind the support, not under. Closer to the fans, should be able to find or make holes for zip ties.

[LS1ow]

Couldn't you run it along the firewall then down to the starter? wouldn't that be shorter?

That's a lot of very expensive wire

I wanted to run it directly up from the starter, then along the firewall and up the driver side rail to the box but with the long tubes id have to run the wire all the way up the the point its at in the last pic, and then double back to the wall. What i didnt like about wiring it that way was the almost 180* tight bent to run it back to the wall.

My throat is sore, thanks for asking.

I'd just move it up an inch or two so its behind the support, not under. Closer to the fans, should be able to find or make holes for zip ties.

That should work. I can prob drill some small holes in the fan shroud to use zip ties.

[sweetbmxrider]

I'd consider running it inside the frame rails too. I'm not sure if it'll be tucked behind the plastic liners the way you currently have it. If it is, leave it. If not, maybe try a different run that doesn't look hax. Just a thought.

[LS1ow]

Want to run this buy some eyes as well before doing this in the event it is a no no.

I dont want to deal with the fuel tank and rear and crap so i want to run the battery cable inside the cabin and bybass all the stuff. Using the bulkhead electrical connectors...

https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/mediumlarge/sum-g1431_sn_ml.jpg

I plan on running the 2 wires up over the rear hump thing, down the center tunnel and then disperse left and right with wires. Drive side for the alternator, and pass for the starter cable. Passing threw the floor using the bulkhead connectors somewhere near the green dots(or any were near there that isnt going to be an issue with seat on the inside and exhaust/SFCs on the bottom) and pick up on the bottem and finish the circuit to the starter/alt

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4451/37048265264_2012f2952a_z.jpg

[wretched73]

Why not just come in through the firewall? My thought process is on saving you money

[LS1ow]

I'd consider running it inside the frame rails too. I'm not sure if it'll be tucked behind the plastic liners the way you currently have it. If it is, leave it. If not, maybe try a different run that doesn't look hax. Just a thought.

plastic liners ?

Why not just come in through the firewall? My thought process is on saving you money

Original plan was run the wire all the way up front and come threw the AC delete plate with the electrical bulkhead connectors, but im not sure if i have enough room. I dont want to pull the dash again.


I have a little time today to work on car, so ill see what i come up with

[LS1ow]

Decided to actually go with the original plan and run the terminals threw the AC delete plate.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4479/37740137612_68d85fd87d_z.jpg

Ended up using the peg towards the driveside for alternator, so i ran the cable up the firewall, under the cowl(behind the manifold not actually by the wipers, which is a good idea and i may look into that today) over the top of the booster, then down the the frame rail, along the rail and drop down to the alt.

Starter to fuse box wire i ended up changing from the way i had it. sillilar routing, but instead of being secured to the bottom of the rad support, i was able to pass some zip ties threw some existing holes in the fan shroud, so now the cable runs up and over the fans along the airlid box.

Also measured up and made the cable for the firewall plate terminal to starter cable. Didnt get a change to install however, ill do that today.

[wretched73]

Nice, Looks much cleaner.

[LS1ow]

yeah i like it this way much better lol

Did run into a problem last night however. Looks like im going to run into some clearance issues with my Y pipe VS the chassis mount TQ arm. The TQ arm is already in place, and i tried to put the Y pipe on but i couldnt get the clearance. It was pretty close though. Im going to pull the arm and throw the Y on. I think it will clear once installed, i just dont have enough room to install it.

[LTb1ow]

Looks fancy, nice work

[LS1ow]

Looks fancy, nice work

Are you complimenting me ?

[LTb1ow]

Maybe.

Until the next cut harness fiasco :bertstare:

[sweetbmxrider]

I was referring to inner fender liners, they are plastic. If you are keeping the interior plastics, I'd run the wiring down the side(s) so its out of sight and protected and you don't have two little humps in your ozite.

[LS1ow]

I was referring to inner fender liners, they are plastic. If you are keeping the interior plastics, I'd run the wiring down the side(s) so its out of sight and protected and you don't have two little humps in your ozite.

oh, wheel housing liners... yeah they didnt make the cut. There in a dump somewere.

Yes, now that i did the wires threw the panel behind the dash im going to run the cables up the pass side behind the interior trims.

[LS1ow]

Any objections to 5w30 mobil 1 and dexcool as fluids

[wretched73]

Any objections to 5w30 mobil 1 and dexcool as fluids

No. I really like Pennzoil Ultra Platinum but Mobil is good too

[LS1ow]

No. I really like Pennzoil Ultra Platinum but Mobil is good too

Mobil is free fo me so that is why its the current favorite

[wretched73]

Mobil is free fo me so that is why its the current favorite

If free was an option for me, then free would win out every time

[LS1ow]

Ended up running out of battery cable last night lmao i tried making it with 50", and i prob would have with some more creative routing, but oh well. I ordered another 10" of it to make the cables from the battery to ground, battery to switch and ground.

All other wiring is done. well i think so atleast.

Fuel pump hot wire to the battery/alt side of the cut off switch right? not the starter side

[LTb1ow]

You need to be taking weight out of the car, not adding to it.

[LS1ow]

You need to be taking weight out of the car, not adding to it.

Tell that to my midsection

[LS1ow]

Todays objectives are to get the Y pipe VS TQ arm situation solved and get the Drive shaft in. Also throw the O2s in. If im able to figure that out without much trouble/time then im also going to throw the interior back in. And by interior i mean cluster.

The last length of battery cable should arrive tomorrow so today ill head to the store and pick up a battery.

Anyone got a "check off list" i should run down before i crank this slut

[LTb1ow]

Clean oil, charged battery, decent tune, and fresh fuel.

Crank her without fuel or spark to verify oil pressure, then let her eat

[Blackbirdws6]

^^ this. Also check for proper fuel pressure, confirm all fluids are topped off, quick nut/bolt/connector check.

[sweetbmxrider]

The battery and alternator are the only two that go on one side of switch. They contain the power to feed everything else. Everything else goes on the other side of switch. When you kill the switch, you kill everything else. That is the idea. Fuel pump goes on starter side.

I prefer mean green and I would bleed the system as best as you can before running.

[LS1ow]

Completely forgot about the trans cooler, so that ended up being yesterdays mission. got it mounted up nice and solid. Just need to connect the lines.

Bottom trans port goes to cooler inlet and the top port on the trans is the return, right?

Today i dont have time due to being forced to go out for a coworkers bday, but tmmr ill be on it bright and early.

Really hoping Saturday is first fire. the PCM i have has a tune for H/C/I so it shouldnt be to to far off. Hopefully enough to get it going. If not my buddy Nishan who tunes will be on the way over to my house.:lol:

[LTb1ow]

Could have sworn we went through this in this thread already.

Feed the cooler from bottom, push the fluid up and out.

[LS1ow]

Could have sworn we went through this in this thread already.

Feed the cooler from bottom, push the fluid up and out.

yes, we went over the cooler portion, i wanted to clarify which is which out of the trans case itself

[LS1ow]

As expected, ran into some problems. It’s possible I missed something but who knows.

1-Soon as I flip the cut off with to On, car gets power but the brake lights are on as if I’m stepping on the pedal.

2. With key “hot” radio turns on(shockingly) and you can hear the EWP, so that’s good. But I don’t hear the fuel pump kick, nor any sign of fuel pressure on the rail mounted gauge.

3. Turn key to start, and nothing. Not even a click.

I’m assuming this is something to do with the VATS?

[The_Bishop]

Is the security light blinking? Pretty sure it does that when there's a VATS issue.

For the first startup, if you really want to make it easy on the rotating assembly, cut the spark and fuel, and pull the plugs. No compression = No real load on the bearings = faster cranking with no load on the starter = Quick and safe prime.

[LS1ow]

No security light, only light on the cluster is service engine. Nothing else lights up. Not even the mileage. And the needles like to jump around as well

[The_Bishop]

That points to something being off in the power feeds, maybe the grounds. How hacked up was the harness?

[sweetbmxrider]

Agreed

[LS1ow]

That points to something being off in the power feeds, maybe the grounds. How hacked up was the harness?

Pretty hacked. When the drivetrain was removed it was removed as if they didn’t care about the car anymore. Instead of things being unbolted they were snipped. The engine harness is off a car that was running, only issue I ran into with the engine harness is that the alternator plug was ripped off. Which was an easy fix.

I don’t think the battery ground could be an issue, Bc the rest of the car is getting power fine. Ground for that is a nut and bolt threw rear frame rail.

The engine is grounded in 2 spots. 1 off the driver side using 1 of the stock alternator bracket bolt holes up to the driver side shock tower factory ground. And the same on the passenger side, using a AC compressor bolt hole up to the passenger shock tower ground.

[LTb1ow]

If its like LT1 cars, you should be able to get power to harness and manually crank it via a push button and bypass the "car side" of things.

[sweetbmxrider]

Pretty much any starter can be jumped if that is what you are saying. You can put power to the small wire and see if it turns over. That would tell you whether or not your starter is good I guess. I suggested a meter/light and start looking for where you do and don't have power.

[LTb1ow]

Pretty much any starter can be jumped if that is what you are saying. You can put power to the small wire and see if it turns over. That would tell you whether or not your starter is good I guess. I suggested a meter/light and start looking for where you do and don't have power.

Prob makes more sense to start there :lol:

I was thinking if you have power at coils, PCM and fuel pump, you can bump it over and it should catch/run

[LS1ow]

I have my buddy coming over with HP tuners to see if it’s a VATS issue can just over ride.

If it’s not I’ll get out the meter and get to testing.

[LS1ow]

Alright, so as some as you know it starts.

The fuel pump not kicking was VATS related, HP tuners took care of it.

However the starter would not kick. There is power at the start, power at the starter relay, but nothing to signal. I ended up getting it started by removing the starter relay and just jumping it. After it was started I did swap the starter relay with the ignition relay to see maybe the starter relay was bad. But with the ignition relay, which is a proven good relay by the car running, I still got nothing. So I need to figure out what the deal is... or just run a Toretto push button

Also, I noticed the cluster not getting info again. It lights up with the headlight switch, and the SES light works, but when keyed on to “hot” it doesn’t display battery voltage. But honestly I don’t recall if anything was reading while the car was running. I was to exited.

[wretched73]

Congrats on first fire!

[sweetbmxrider]

Pin 85 is your key on hot. Its a dark green wire coming from clutch safety/neutral safety switch.

Pin 86 is your ground. It is a yellow/black wire coming from the bcm. It is looking for the key pellet to internally ground a relay for starter enable. To bypass this feature, ground the yellow/black wire wherever da **** you want.

[LS1ow]

Pin 85 is your key on hot. Its a dark green wire coming from clutch safety/neutral safety switch.

Pin 86 is your ground. It is a yellow/black wire coming from the bcm. It is looking for the key pellet to internally ground a relay for starter enable. To bypass this feature, ground the yellow/black wire wherever da **** you want.

So Just ground out that wire coming from the BCM and I’ll be able to start w. Key?

[sweetbmxrider]

I didn't say that. I said grounding the wire will bypass the bcm/theft deterrent ****. You still need power from the nss.

[LS1ow]

this calls for a remote thread !

[ar0ck]

Im learning a lot from this thread! I dont even have these problems, i feel blessed. Thanks!

[LS1ow]

So with the start situation "fixed", we have some more problems on the horizon

1. With 1 quart in the Converter, and dipstick tube wrestled in(order a new braided one bc didnt like how the stock one sat, im pretty sure its been on 4 different cars) i started to fill the trans. It took about 5qts before it started to spill out the tailshaft and the grommet were dip stick goes in. I see normal fill after service is 5qt, BUT this trans was torn down and had a shift kit and servo installed. Wouldn't that render it completely dry?

2. Nothing is reading on the cluster. Turn the cut off switch at the back on and the needles "sweep" or more like bounce around. Battery voltage does not need, nor does oil pressure or RPM. I dont recall if the SES light lit this time, but i know the odometer did not. But since i dont have an way to see if oil pressure is there, i havent let the car run for more than 5 seconds. The start up vid some of you seen was the longest is run so far.

Which leads me here...

3. Tested out the Str33t 0utlawz starter set up i now have. Car fired right up and ran for no more than 2 seconds before no lie, the biggest backfire i have ever heard from a NA motor. It shook the the saw dust from the ceiling. For the first fire, the car DID NOT have O2 sensors in the collectors. I didnt have the extender harnesses i needed, they showed yesterday so i installed them. So that was the first fire with O2s, and it sounded like a land mine.

[LTb1ow]

Trans may be empty but you won't be able to force fluid up through it by just adding fluid via tube.

Run it, check level, add, repeat.

Mistake on the braided tube btw. They suck. Return it and get a nice OEM one.

[LS1ow]

Trans may be empty but you won't be able to force fluid up through it by just adding fluid via tube.

Run it, check level, add, repeat.

Mistake on the braided tube btw. They suck. Return it and get a nice OEM one.

Is it possible to get a OEM dipstick tube in while the engine & trans are in the car? The one i had, albeit old n prob bent in the wrong areas, gave a 1 hell of a fight.

[LS1ow]

2. Nothing is reading on the cluster. Turn the cut off switch at the back on and the needles "sweep" or more like bounce around. Battery voltage does not need, nor does oil pressure or RPM. I dont recall if the SES light lit this time, but i know the odometer did not. But since i dont have an way to see if oil pressure is there, i havent let the car run for more than 5 seconds. The start up vid some of you seen was the longest is run so far.



Fuse for gauges is missing from fuse box.

https://memegenerator.net/img/images/600x600/10437509/homer-simpson-retarded.jpg

[The_Bishop]

https://2static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Well+thats+your+problem+right+there_d5cc6a_6029994 .jpg

At least it's easily fixed.

[LS1ow]

We have gauges.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4514/37277992494_9577921afe_z.jpg

However problem 3 still alive and very very well

[KirkEvil]

Check that o2 sensor wires are not crossed, MAF wires are good, did you tune for larger injectors?

[LS1ow]

Heres what i was doin in addition to not realizing Kohler's dinner was the 27th and not the 28th.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4465/37987211241_2a276ca5d3_z.jpg

From Left to right goes as followed

-Push button start arming switch
-Push button start
-Electric Water Pump
-Red Push button is line lock
-Red LED above LL button is to show Line lock is armed
-Line Line Arm

[LS1ow]

Check that o2 sensor wires are not crossed, MAF wires are good, did you tune for larger injectors?

Ill double check i didnt cross the o2s, that is deff possible.

MAF wires should be fine, i bought that adapter harness for the 5 pin brandy new.

Yesh.

[wretched73]

Just curious, but why is your EWP on a switch? Can't you program the computer to turn on/off the EWP? Or is there a reason you'd rather have it on a switch?

[LS1ow]

Just curious, but why is your EWP on a switch? Can't you program the computer to turn on/off the EWP? Or is there a reason you'd rather have it on a switch?


So i can turn it on on its own to cool quick in the pits or what not. It'll still go on like normal with the key

[LS1ow]

Brainstorming has lead me here.

The fuel pump primes when key is turned to hot and then shuts off.

Since i have the push button set up, ive just been turning the key to hot and trying to start it with the button. But since the fuel pump doesnt kick back on while the key is just in hot after it is primed, the car is starting to run on only the amount of fuel that was supplied via prime. Thus, big ol' kaboom backfires.

Unless... there is something that commands the fuel pump on while the car is cranking? i havent had the chance to check the fuel pressure gauge on the rail while cranking, but as you can see in the vid below, once the key is hot, it has pressure and then bleeds off. Only coming back when i cycle the key again.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4491/26211349339_56ed266a82_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FWd1Yc)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/FWd1Yc) by mickey beggs (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150794795@N08/), on Flickr

[PolarBear]

The ECM primes the pump on key on for ~5 seconds, unless you change it, then it will turn the pump on again once it sees crank signal. This is so if there is an accident situation and the engine stops, the pump shuts off so it doesn't pump fuel onto the ground until the key is shut off.

You could have the initial prime set to like 15 seconds so you have more time to hit the button for crank.

[PolarBear]

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4491/26211349339_56ed266a82_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/FWd1Yc)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/FWd1Yc) by mickey beggs (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150794795@N08/), on Flickr
Your throttle cable is also falling off the cam arm on the TB, so you may not be seeing the correct throttle closed voltage

[LS1ow]

Your throttle cable is also falling off the cam arm on the TB, so you may not be seeing the correct throttle closed voltage

yeah i fixed that right after i took the vid, i havent tried to refire since then.

You never know.

[LS1ow]

The ECM primes the pump on key on for ~5 seconds, unless you change it, then it will turn the pump on again once it sees crank signal. This is so if there is an accident situation and the engine stops, the pump shuts off so it doesn't pump fuel onto the ground until the key is shut off.

You could have the initial prime set to like 15 seconds so you have more time to hit the button for crank.

There is no way its priming for even close to 5 seconds. I would more like 2. Maybe that can be another reason as well.


When i get home from work im going to unplug the o2 sensors and give it a go.

[PolarBear]

I didn't realize it was a video, lol. Mine does exactly the same thing, though I didn't think it was supposed to bleed off that fast. I don't know. I have to let mine fully prime before I try to crank, or it won't start right away, I have to crank it for a few seconds, 4-5 or so. If I let it prime for ~3 seconds before I start it will start in under 1 second

[PolarBear]

Yeah, it only primed for a second or so. That's a parameter in the ECM, just change it

[LS1ow]

I didn't realize it was a video, lol. Mine does exactly the same thing, though I didn't think it was supposed to bleed off that fast. I don't know. I have to let mine fully prime before I try to crank, or it won't start right away, I have to crank it for a few seconds, 4-5 or so. If I let it prime for ~3 seconds before I start it will start in under 1 second

Kirk said the same thing about it bleeding off fast. In my XJ jeep i had to leave the key on for 3-5 seconds so it would prime and then it would fire right up. I cant to that with this bc the pressure drops so damn fast.

[wretched73]

Bleeding off is common in aftermarket fuel pumps because the check valve sucks

[LS1ow]

Did some more trouble shooting yesterday, here’s what I learned.

1. Fuel pressure does bleed off quick, but it maintains 55-60psi while cranking

Result: crank, no signs of firing

2. Unplugged the o2 sensors, since the only time it really ran was with no 02s

Result: crank, no signs of firing

3. Checked all plug wires, everything looked good

Result: crank, backfire/pop threw intake with some smoke out of the lid.


Tonight I’m going to pull the spark plugs and check em out. Praying it’s not a timing issue. Don’t know how it would be possible since it was lined up perfect, but who knows.

[FlyingDutchman]

By "no signs of firing" does this include having no spark?

[PolarBear]

By "no signs of firing" does this include having no spark?

Yeah, did you check for spark and fuel? Is the harness an original f-body harness?

[LS1ow]

By "no signs of firing" does this include having no spark?

What I mean by that is it doesn’t even sound like it wants to fire.

Yeah, did you check for spark and fuel? Is the harness an original f-body harness?

It’s gettig fuel at the rail atleast. And I would assume it’s getting spark by the backfire.

Yes, original LS1/4l60e fbody harness

[wretched73]

I'd check to make sure each cylinder has spark

[PolarBear]

It’s gettig fuel at the rail atleast. And I would assume it’s getting spark by the backfire.

I'd check to make sure each cylinder has spark

This is what I was getting at, you should verify fuel and spark to all cylinders since it seems like something hokey is going on

[FlyingDutchman]

Well you don't have an opti to fail and it's nearly impossible to cross your plug wires (not sure about coil harness, maybe verify that). You're positive the crank and cam are lined up right? New or used timing chain? No sensors left unplugged? Chase (the3lite) had issues keeping it running, iirc the cps was unplugged.

[LS1ow]

Well you don't have an opti to fail and it's nearly impossible to cross your plug wires (not sure about coil harness, maybe verify that). You're positive the crank and cam are lined up right? New or used timing chain? No sensors left unplugged? Chase (the3lite) had issues keeping it running, iirc the cps was unplugged.

Cant cross coil harness, they run along the injectors and would only work one way due to the IAC and TPS being on 1 side.

Cam and crank were aligned, I dont think if they were off it would even have fired in the first place no?

I will rego over sensors today.

[FlyingDutchman]

Cant cross coil harness, they run along the injectors and would only work one way due to the IAC and TPS being on 1 side.

Cam and crank were aligned, I dont think if they were off it would even have fired in the first place no?

I will rego over sensors today.

You can be a tooth off and it will run albeit poorly and noticeable. How long did it run? Just once, backfire, die within a few seconds?

[LS1ow]

You can be a tooth off and it will run albeit poorly and noticeable. How long did it run? Just once, backfire, die within a few seconds?

Ran for prob a combine 10 seconds. Started it up the first time and it fired right up. Started it again a few minutes later to get a vid, started right up. Didnt shut off on its own either time. Killed it bc gauge cluster was not hooked up, so couldn't see if it had oil pressure and didnt want to risk it.

[sweetbmxrider]

I'd crack the throttle a little and see if it changes/tries a little. I'd also hold it WOT and see if it tries to fire since that should disable injectors if you have a flood condition. Also, losing your primed fuel pressure is not good/not factory/should be fixed/probably bad fuel pump check valve/hey cool switches captain!

Is it possible to get a OEM dipstick tube in while the engine & trans are in the car? The one i had, albeit old n prob bent in the wrong areas, gave a 1 hell of a fight.

Possible? Yes. Recommended? Hell ****ing no! :rofl:

[LS1ow]

Spent about 6 hours on the car after work trying to get somewhere, and i think i just went backwards.

My friends, some of you may know him as well, Nishan came over with HP tuners to try to get this party started.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4480/38032494222_e82657f279_z.jpg

After messing around for a while and not getting anything more than a 1 second fire up and die we pulled the plugs.

Cyl 2

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4509/24210924978_a5e5df0624_z.jpg

Cyl 4

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4445/24210926248_20d87f1509_z.jpg

Cyl 6

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4466/38010385756_8920625583_z.jpg

cyl 8

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4468/24210925038_86d773867d_z.jpg

Cyl 7

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4494/38032493712_32bbb4c60a_z.jpg

Cyl 5

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4496/38063641491_c966c2df3e_z.jpg

Cyl 3

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4474/38063640881_aba0a79ac6_z.jpg

Cyl 1

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4509/38010384306_4c2a148a24_z.jpg

As you can see, not good lmao I also verified spark at on every plug using a new plug from extra set i had.

[sweetbmxrider]

Unplug coils 1 and 5 and see if anything changes? Verify fuel injectors are receiving signal and are pulsing fuel? Neither smells like fuel, correct? Check compression and check valve train operation and timing of events.

[LTb1ow]

Did you verify injectors are firing on those cylinders?

[LS1ow]

Unplug coils 1 and 5 and see if anything changes? Verify fuel injectors are receiving signal and are pulsing fuel? Neither smells like fuel, correct? Check compression and check valve train operation and timing of events.

Did you verify injectors are firing on those cylinders?

Injectors are getting signal, didnt pull any to check. Nish actually texted me today to see if i had a set of stockers laying around to swap and see if it would fix it.


In addition to the spark plug catastrophy, once of the few times the car fired up it reved to the sky. As it started to go to the sky we killed it. Looking at HP tuners showed the throttle was 100% open. A quick look at the tb rocker and cable verified that it was witchcraft, so we tried to start it again. Same ****. Pulled the MAF and stuff to see the blade of the TB stuck wide open. niceeee. Literally just touched the tb cable to start to take it off and the TB rocker and return spring just fell off in my hand. Turns out the set screw that hold the rocker to the flat spot on the blade bar backed itself off some how. Pulled the TB off and fixed that. Threw it back on to the same results.

[sweetbmxrider]

Just for ****s and giggles, kill the power for a little to reset the learned tables in the pcm. I doubt it will have an effect, but I don't like the wot issue. It almost makes me wonder if an injector or two are leaking down, hence your loss of prime pressure and your random backfire. As I said before, wot while cranking disables the injectors to help aid in clearing a flood condition. Just a thought....give 1 and 5 extra attention if you check this. Could explain the clean plug, could be something else.

[LS1ow]

Just for ****s and giggles, kill the power for a little to reset the learned tables in the pcm. I doubt it will have an effect, but I don't like the wot issue. It almost makes me wonder if an injector or two are leaking down, hence your loss of prime pressure and your random backfire. As I said before, wot while cranking disables the injectors to help aid in clearing a flood condition. Just a thought....give 1 and 5 extra attention if you check this. Could explain the clean plug, could be something else.

We did clear out the PCM and start over, didnt make a diff. And what WOT issue you speaking of? Were it revved to the moon as soon as it started? I fixed issue. It was the TB.

Grabbing a set of stock injectors tonight from Mike just to see if thatll solve it. Hopefully itll fire with stock injectors

[LTb1ow]

If you floor it while cranking, the PCM pulls fueling to clear a rich condition AFAIK.

[LS1ow]

replacement set of injectors aquired. Going in after work today. Hopefully thats the issue.

[LTb1ow]

So is it fixed?

[LS1ow]

So is it fixed?

Loaded up a file for the stock injectors and gave it a go to no success. It ran for a couple seconds but only nursing it. And it was running terrible.

[PolarBear]

You double check your MAP sensor?

[LS1ow]

You double check your MAP sensor?

HPTuners showed MAP was reading

[PolarBear]

But was it accurate? I remember you said it just popped right out when you were trying to install the engine. If it isn't all the way in and giving you an accurate reading it could be screwing you up. I don't know that much about engines, but it sort of sounds like an air issue

[LS1ow]

But was it accurate? I remember you said it just popped right out when you were trying to install the engine. If it isn't all the way in and giving you an accurate reading it could be screwing you up. I don't know that much about engines, but it sort of sounds like an air issue

I replaced the map that was torn out with a new unit. Went in perfect. One of the next steps is just throw some sensors at it lol

[MDSheds_SS]

Try the MAF 1st!!

[LS1ow]

Sorry i didnt get a chance to update earlier this morning. Today was a busy day at work. Here is last nights findings.

I installed the stock injectors and loaded up a stock injector file. Got my hopes up for a second bc the bleeding down of fuel pressure went much slower. Tried to fire and got the same results. Ran for about 6 seconds but SUPER rough, and only stayed running while playing with the throttle. soon as i let off the gas it died. :-?

Next i pulled the valve covers to see if anything was up. Nothing looked odd to me other than some stuff gathered by 1 valve spring. Turned out it was some rust/dried up oil that was in the valve cover. Vacuumed up and proceed. Hopefully this didnt hurt nothing.

Passenger side

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4517/38073270826_e9bf0308f2_z.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4451/38127848021_c5d95b0319_z.jpg

Driver Side
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4443/24275625468_f12dd5b24d_z.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4561/38127847551_89e763daa1_z.jpg

Dat Funk

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4492/38140609731_01e0f5f869_z.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4511/38127848421_06d8fc8df2_z.jpg


Cranked over the motor a few times to make sure every valve opened up, and everything looked normal.

[LS1ow]

Part 2

Pulled the plugs again to check em out, same case as the first time. 1 and 3 look brand damn new.

Cyl 1

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4450/38096078542_7d93bb7d4e_z.jpg

Cyl 3

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4518/24275623138_9d8ae033d0_z.jpg

cyl 5

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4503/38073266136_eba78c9043_z.jpg

cyl 7

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4548/37418621504_5e04e0d4c4_z.jpg

cyl 2

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4554/37418622314_4088db58d6_z.jpg

cyl 4

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4478/38073266076_cbab2cd017_z.jpg

cyl 6
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4529/37418622104_b6a9d41077_z.jpg

cyl 8
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4532/38127843531_72a6f5583b_z.jpg

[LTb1ow]

Got the right firing order in there?

Looks like what mine was doing when I had coil packs messed up.

[LS1ow]

Got the right firing order in there?

Looks like what mine was doing when I had coil packs messed up.

It’s even possible to mess that up?

[LTb1ow]

If you ever had the coils disconnected from the coil harness, absolutely.

[LS1ow]

If you ever had the coils disconnected from the coil harness, absolutely.

I had the whole thing undone when I was relooming the wires.

Walking down to check now

[LS1ow]

How does 1 tell if it’s wrong? Is there color coding per coil by firing order?

[LTb1ow]

Yank pcm plugs, find pin out online, trace pcm to each coil. Should be easy

[sweetbmxrider]

I'd still do a compression check. If they aren't coming out wet/stinking like gas after cranking for a few minutes, you have to figure that out too. You did verify spark though but I agree it could be swapped. Honestly, why not swap the plug wires the best you can so coil 5 goes to cylinder 1 and coil 1 to cylinder 5? Beats tracing out wiring and should answer your question pretty quick. You'll definitely have to help the car idle until it starts getting up to temp, first start problems. It should be obvious though if it is running like **** that you have issues still.

[LTb1ow]

Update?

[PolarBear]

Yeah, for real, we need more updates. We're all invested in this by now

[LS1ow]

Sadly weekend was filled with non car stuff.

I pulled the coil harnesses and double checked them. Sheds send me over the wiring info. It fired up but its still running rough. Wiring on the coil harnesses is pretty rough though. There is some funky stuff going on. Only looks like fusible links within the harness.

Itll start by nursing the throttle, and stay running by playing with it. once i got off the throttle it would pop. Hard to see in the vid, easier to see on a phone, but the last few seconds of running, when it is popping it is at straight idle. And i key it off, it doesnt die.

https://youtu.be/QZ5iGdn8RWQ

[PolarBear]

Only looks like fusible links within the harness.

Those are commons that are soldered and then shrinked (heat shrink with glue in it) there is a common ground and power for all the coils in that harness.

[LTb1ow]

You verified each coil plug was going to the correct cylinder's coil?

[LS1ow]

Those are commons that are soldered and then shrinked (heat shrink with glue in it) there is a common ground and power for all the coils in that harness.

Yeah thats what it is then. I was like oh boy, this looks like a hack job lol

You verified each coil plug was going to the correct cylinder's coil?


Me thinks.

1-Red
2-Red
3-Green
4-Green
5-Blue
6-Blue
7-Purple
8-Purple

[MDSheds_SS]

Sadly weekend was filled with non car stuff.

I pulled the coil harnesses and double checked them. Sheds send me over the wiring info. It fired up but its still running rough. Wiring on the coil harnesses is pretty rough though. There is some funky stuff going on. Only looks like fusible links within the harness.

Itll start by nursing the throttle, and stay running by playing with it. once i got off the throttle it would pop. Hard to see in the vid, easier to see on a phone, but the last few seconds of running, when it is popping it is at straight idle. And i key it off, it doesnt die.

https://youtu.be/QZ5iGdn8RWQ

I have an extra harness you can have if yours is hacked up. I won't be back from Vacation until Sat night tho. Won't help for #RW2017 but might help you get er going.

[sweetbmxrider]

I'm really starting to think tune/timing issue.

[Featherburner]

Just curious, how fresh is the fuel?

[LS1ow]

I'm really starting to think tune/timing issue.

It 100% has gotten better since the injector swap to stock units, and going over the coil pack wiring. It doesn't give off any stupid loud backfires, and i haven't had any backfires threw the intake. But clearly something is still up. Hopefully today i can have Nish come over with HP Tuners and let him have have it.

#RW2K17 isnt looking to hot, but im not giving up until its monday afternoon and the rental is over.

[LS1ow]

Just curious, how fresh is the fuel?

Fresh. Roller didnt come with a tank so i bought one from another member. Drained and cleaned, and threw 5 gallons of Sunoco 93 in before first crank.

[LS1ow]

Compression test tonight

[LTb1ow]

Results?

[wretched73]

Results?

We're dying over here!!

[LS1ow]

So heres the results.

Using a SnapOn compression tester, cranked the motor for 4 "jumps" of the gauge as per instructions. Fuel pump off and coil packs unplugged, so no fuel or spark. Cold engine obviously.

1- 95
3- 98
5-100
7-98

2-87
4-85
6-90
8-98

yeahhhh lmao

Im thinking is possible the pushrods i have are too long. I have 7.4" in the car now, i know i measured out a little bit shorter than 7.4", but i do remember what it was off the top of my head/why i ended up going w. 7.4"

[PolarBear]

Yeah, those are really low, just for testing maybe try backing the rocker bolts off a turn or two and see if the compression comes up?

[MDSheds_SS]

So heres the results.

Using a SnapOn compression tester, cranked the motor for 4 "jumps" of the gauge as per instructions. Fuel pump off and coil packs unplugged, so no fuel or spark. Cold engine obviously.

1- 95
3- 98
5-100
7-98

2-87
4-85
6-90
8-98

yeahhhh lmao

Im thinking is possible the pushrods i have are too long. I have 7.4" in the car now, i know i measured out a little bit shorter than 7.4", but i do remember what it was off the top of my head/why i ended up going w. 7.4"

How much are the heads milled again?

[LS1ow]

How much are the heads milled again?

None, heads are untouched TBSS 243s. Just cleaned and new springs.

[The_Bishop]

I'd try what polarbear says; back the rockers off 1-2 turns and test again. If they're still low, then either:

A: The cam is ground wrong and the valve timing is *way* off or, more likely:

2: The cam timing is fubar'd due to timing chain being off on install.

[LTb1ow]

Oh you.

Trollin' us all along, you have a big ole snail for this don't you????

:bertstare:

[LS1ow]

I'd try what polarbear says; back the rockers off 1-2 turns and test again. If they're still low, then either:

A: The cam is ground wrong and the valve timing is *way* off or, more likely:

2: The cam timing is fubar'd due to timing chain being off on install.

im still not completely off the timing thing either. However earlier pics show the Cam sprocket at 6 O'clock after assembly. But i cant see the crank sprocket so who knows.

[LS1ow]

Oh you.

Trollin' us all along, you have a big ole snail for this don't you????

:bertstare:

Dat Huron Speed Group Buy looking more and more likely by the hour

[The_Bishop]

Oh you.

Trollin' us all along, you have a big ole snail for this don't you????

:bertstare:

So, 6.5:1 compression and 45 pounds of boost? :bertstare:

[LTb1ow]

So, 6.5:1 compression and 45 pounds of boost? :bertstare:

He works for Audi, prob has dat compound turbo dreamz going.

45psi ain't ****

8-)

[LS1ow]

https://hips.hearstapps.com/roa.h-cdn.co/assets/16/13/1459263898-screen-shot-2016-03-29-at-105942-am-2.png

[The_Bishop]

Bahahaha

[Blackbirdws6]

All aboard the troll train! "Hey Guise, cars runs like crap, not sure what's wrong." Attends racewars and lays down sick pass.

[sweetbmxrider]

Damn man, you need to hurry the **** up and figure this bitch out!

[LS1ow]

Damn man, you need to hurry the **** up and figure this bitch out!

today we should have final results, didn't get to it at all yesterday bc my jeep wanted to join the not running correct party. Turned out it just needed a new coil rail.

heres whats planned for the day in order

1. Pull timing cover and check timing, if that is all good then move on.

2. Push-rod Length, im thinking these should be good. but it doesnt take long do check so may as well.

3. Leak down test

[PolarBear]

Come on man, quit your job if necessary, just get it done!

[MDSheds_SS]

Is it alive yet??

[LS1ow]

Not alive yet.

Pulled the Crank pulley and timing cover, time marks are lined up.

[IROCZman15]

last moment thrash to swap it over to carb ! or TPI !

[Featherburner]

Not alive yet.

Pulled the Crank pulley and timing cover, time marks are lined up.

Did you degree the cam? It wouldn't be the first time a camshaft was ground wrong.

[BonzoHansen]

last moment thrash to swap it over to carb ! or TPI !

optispark bitchez!

[LS1ow]

Did you degree the cam? It wouldn't be the first time a camshaft was ground wrong.

I did not. I just went "dot to dot"



timing marks aligned.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4522/38281661292_cf1c3cd817_z.jpg

[LS1ow]

Is it possible to time these motors 180* out? After verifying the timing marks were lined up with cyl 1 at TDC, i started to do some investigating.

The cam gear turns 1/2 turn for ever 1 turn of the crank.

Both valves are closed, cyl 1 at TDC, Cam gear mark at 6, crank gear mark at 12. Dowel peg for cam at 3.

And now we start to turn the crank and watch the valves

-At say 9 o'clock(Cam gear) the intake valve has completed its opening and closing cycle, the crank is at 6 completing its Intake Cycle.

-With the Cam at 12, Both valves are closed. Crank is at 12 as well, finishing its compression cycle.

-Cam at 3, the valves are still closed but the exhaust valve is just at the start of its cycle. The Crank is at 6, just finishing its power stroke.

-Cam returns to 6 after finishing the exhaust valve opening and closing, the crank is back at 12, after completing the exhaust stroke.

So going off this info, i have the motor timed at TDC of the start of a new cycle. Not at TDC on the at the end of the compression cycle. Is that were it is supposed to be timed at? or am i correct were its at.

[PolarBear]

I was going to post yesterday that on the SBC/BBC the dots together means TDC for #6, but it doesn't really matter either way. When you rotate the crank two times then you have the cam gear dot at the top and you're at TDC #1, I am pretty sure the LS is the same. I just pulled my timing set off my 5.3 so I can't double check, but logically it seems the same. The crank doesn't do anything but move the pistons up and down, it's the cam that determines the valve timing.
The only other variable is the cam sensor, and then you would be 180 degrees out if the dots both need to be up

[sweetbmxrider]

I'm not following you, it all sounds normal :shrug:

[The_Bishop]

Stupid question, maybe... but maybe the PCM needs a crank relearn?

[LS1ow]

I was going to post yesterday that on the SBC/BBC the dots together means TDC for #6, but it doesn't really matter either way. When you rotate the crank two times then you have the cam gear dot at the top and you're at TDC #1, I am pretty sure the LS is the same. I just pulled my timing set off my 5.3 so I can't double check, but logically it seems the same. The crank doesn't do anything but move the pistons up and down, it's the cam that determines the valve timing.
The only other variable is the cam sensor, and then you would be 180 degrees out if the dots both need to be up

Ive read that its it doesnt matter if it is 180 out. And i dont understand how it would not matter. The cam is ground a certain way, so say at 45 degree is supposed to be beginning to open the exhaust valve on cyl 1, if i have the cam in 180* out, at 45* the cam it would be reading what is supped to be at 270*. Thus rendering the valves opening in closing all out of whack. It makes sense in my head but i struggle to relay what i am thinking

[Blackbirdws6]

Piston 1 TDC on compression stroke (Valves closed), line up dot to dot. Sounds like that is what you did.

Reluctor look OK and sensors are all happy? If computer doesn't know where crank/cam are, it will cause issues.

[LS1ow]

I'm not following you, it all sounds normal :shrug:

The piston is at TDC twice for every rotation of the cam. 1 time at the start of the 4 stroke cycle/end of old cycle, 1 time at the halfway threw at the end of the compression stroke/start of power stroke.

When the timing gears are Dot to Dot it is TDC at the end of the cycle/start of new cycle. When the timing gears are both Dot at 12, it is at TDC, but the cam as at the end of the compression stroke/start of power stroke.

Which TDC should it be timed at ?

[LS1ow]

Piston 1 TDC on compression stroke (Valves closed), line up dot to dot. Sounds like that is what you did.



Negative, Piston 1 TDC after exhaust stroke, valves closed, reading to start next cycle.

[sweetbmxrider]

The piston is at TDC twice for every rotation of the cam. 1 time at the start of the 4 stroke cycle/end of old cycle, 1 time at the halfway threw at the end of the compression stroke/start of power stroke.

When the timing gears are Dot to Dot it is TDC at the end of the cycle/start of new cycle. When the timing gears are both Dot at 12, it is at TDC, but the cam as at the end of the compression stroke/start of power stroke.

Which TDC should it be timed at ?

The piston goes up and down, it doesn't give a **** if you are calling it compression or power stroke. The cam controls the valve train timing. So long as you install the cam dot to dot or 180* from that as bear was saying, the motor will operate correctly. We don't have a dizzy to worry about timing here. I also believe with the dowel, you can only install the cam correctly. I haven't done an ls cam swap so I don't know. Dot to dot as you did should be good.

[LS1ow]

The piston goes up and down, it doesn't give a **** if you are calling it compression or power stroke. The cam controls the valve train timing. So long as you install the cam dot to dot or 180* from that as bear was saying, the motor will operate correctly. We don't have a dizzy to worry about timing here. I also believe with the dowel, you can only install the cam correctly. I haven't done an ls cam swap so I don't know. Dot to dot as you did should be good.

Disregarding fueling and spark, I’m was getting at the compression thing.

I’m not sure what you would call the shape of a cam lobe, like a acorn almost. So say the top of the accord is should be at 3 o’clock, which would yield both valves closed. If the cam is flipped 180, then the tip of the acorn shape would be pushing the lifter up, opening the valve. And if the valve is open, I’m not gunna have compression

[KirkEvil]

There is a dowel on 3-bolt style cams that only allows the timing gear to be installed 1 way. I think there is only a dot on the one side (facing you) of the cam, so you should have correct if you see dots lined up. If you installed with the timing dot facing the motor then I think you could have been 180 out.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/check002iv1.jpg

[qwikz28]

What were the symptoms again?

[LS1ow]

What were the symptoms again?

Hard start, popping/backfire when started, has backfired threw intake, lacks compression

[LS1ow]

There is a dowel on 3-bolt style cams that only allows the timing gear to be installed 1 way. I think there is only a dot on the one side (facing you) of the cam, so you should have correct if you see dots lined up. If you installed with the timing dot facing the motor then I think you could have been 180 out.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20/PerthPurplePenguin/car%20parts/check002iv1.jpg

So it’s not possible to install cam gear backwards? I was questioning that today.

[KirkEvil]

So it’s not possible to install cam gear backwards? I was questioning that today.

It's possible, but the way you have it is correct. I have the same cam gear on a lamp and just checked it only has the dot on one side

[sweetbmxrider]

Disregarding fueling and spark, I’m was getting at the compression thing.

I’m not sure what you would call the shape of a cam lobe, like a acorn almost. So say the top of the accord is should be at 3 o’clock, which would yield both valves closed. If the cam is flipped 180, then the tip of the acorn shape would be pushing the lifter up, opening the valve. And if the valve is open, I’m not gunna have compression

The only way this would work like you think would be 90 out. Like it was said, the piston goes up and down, it doesn't know or care what the valve events are. As kirk clarified and I suspected, you can only install the cam one way. I would try backing off of the lifter preload if you haven't already. You can also try a few drops of oil into one cylinder and see if the numbers on that cylinder improve. You could also use a leak down tester on each cylinder and see where the air bleeds out from. Hissing throttle body? Intake valve/timing issue. Exhaust? Exhaust side. Crankcase? Bottom end. Keep that rain dance going!

[qwikz28]

Hard start, popping/backfire when started, has backfired threw intake, lacks compression

Have we completely ruled out incorrect pushrod length? I went through this same issue with a TSP cam about a decade ago. I think I have a pushrod length checker around here somewhere if you need me to begin the hunt.

[LS1ow]

did a leak down test last night on cyl 1. did it 4 different variations as youll see below.

Dot to dot, push rods installed. rockers not torqued but seated onto the rocker tray.


[url=https://flic.kr/p/DjzwnG]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4545/24495438218_9e5e8c6de0_z.jpg



cam gear at 12, crank gear at 12, pushrods and rockers same as previous.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/21sghD2]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4547/38365904091_2554a4f98f_z.jpg

Dot to Dot, no pushrods or rockers.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/21sghzp]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4544/38365903881_c5ec4a99d4_z.jpg

12 and 12, no rods or rockers.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/21pxqxL]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4555/38335103002_f25d06a776_z.jpg

All 4 tests pass. Air could be heard hissing from the crank case(i dont have the timing cover on) but the gauge says its only 14-16% loss, which passes. unless im understanding it wrong.

[The_Bishop]

When the rockers were bolted down, were the plungers collapsed? If your pushrods are a bit too long there might be enough 'slack' in the plunger travel to hide it when there's no oil pressure.

A compression test (not a leakdown) will show that. If your compression test is low when the rockers are bolted down and higher when you back off the bolts holding the rockers down, that means you have too much preload.

[LS1ow]

When the rockers were bolted down, were the plungers collapsed? If your pushrods are a bit too long there might be enough 'slack' in the plunger travel to hide it when there's no oil pressure.

A compression test (not a leakdown) will show that. If your compression test is low when the rockers are bolted down and higher when you back off the bolts holding the rockers down, that means you have too much preload.

Yes, the lifter deff collapsed a bit.

[sweetbmxrider]

What tune are you trying to run this on?

[LS1ow]

What tune are you trying to run this on?

Started from nothing.

[MDSheds_SS]

If you upgraded the MAF from 78 to 85 doesn't it need to be tuned for that?

[sweetbmxrider]

Started from nothing.

I would throw kirk's old tune at it if he has it still.

[LS1ow]

If you upgraded the MAF from 78 to 85 doesn't it need to be tuned for that?

Yeah, but we did that:-?

I would throw kirk's old tune at it if he has it still.

He does, i will ask him to send me the magic file.

[PolarBear]

How could you tune for the new MAF size if you can't get it to run properly?

[LS1ow]

How could you tune for the new MAF size if you can't get it to run properly?

Not tuned, calibrated rather.

[PolarBear]

Not tuned, calibrated rather.

Same thing, how could you do it without the engine running?

[PolarBear]

Maybe try disconnecting the MAF as long as your IAT isn't in it

[qwikz28]

Not tuned, calibrated rather.

Try uncalibrating it and I'll bring my MAF over after work one of these days.

[LS1ow]

Maybe try disconnecting the MAF as long as your IAT isn't in it

It is, the maf is a 5 pin so the IAT is built in to it. I did unplug the MAF and give it a go, but that would mean unplugged IAT as well.

I can toss this thing back together and try it with the MAF unplugged but IAT plug plugged into the IAT thats in the lid.

[MDSheds_SS]

Just to rule out the 85mm MAF I would revert back to original MAF and IAT and give that a shot. Also relearn the TSP if you haven't done that already. I ran my car on stock 78mm MAF and IAT plugged in the lid with my PRC heads and Cam on original start up before converting to LS3 card style. Ran a little lean but it was good enough for startup.

[LS1ow]

Just to rule out the 85mm MAF I would revert back to original MAF and IAT and give that a shot. Also relearn the TSP if you haven't done that already. I ran my car on stock 78mm MAF and IAT plugged in the lid with my PRC heads and Cam on original start up before converting to LS3 card style. Ran a little lean but it was good enough for startup.

Im gunna grab a stock maf from Mike, and im picking up a IAT sensor from chevy tmmr (one in the lid has been knocked around and painted over lol)

[LS1ow]

Really hung up on if the low compression numbers are related to the firing issue, or if thats a completely separate issue Ive just bought to light. Maybe there coming up so low bc the engine has only ran for 10 seconds in the past 6 or so months. Who knows.

[Jersey Mike]

Finally was able to get a pushrod checker. Started short and adjusted to till there was no rock in the rocker.

Like a doofus, measured with a ruler and sat 7.250.

Then after Kirk hit me with a http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/e/ed/No_Rage_Face.png/revision/latest?cb=20130103081106

I took out the mic and it was really 7.312. Leaving my options at 7.375 for .062 preload, or 7.400 with .088 preload.

So heres the results.

Using a SnapOn compression tester, cranked the motor for 4 "jumps" of the gauge as per instructions. Fuel pump off and coil packs unplugged, so no fuel or spark. Cold engine obviously.

1- 95
3- 98
5-100
7-98

2-87
4-85
6-90
8-98

yeahhhh lmao

Im thinking is possible the pushrods i have are too long. I have 7.4" in the car now, i know i measured out a little bit shorter than 7.4", but i do remember what it was off the top of my head/why i ended up going w. 7.4"



Im gunna grab a stock maf from Mike, and im picking up a IAT sensor from chevy tmmr (one in the lid has been knocked around and painted over lol)

Uh, good to know I guess :lol: Obviously, you're welcome to it. You can take my SLP lid with IAT sensor too. Also, if you're feeling frisky there's a truck MAF & breakout harness installed on the car that you can borrow as well. You should know the garage code, but if not, text me. Just to rule out valves, grab my assembled 243s and springs off the shelf too, because at this point, it'll only cost you a Friday night & a set of head gaskets--fuggit.


Question for the pros: There's a correlation between MAF and those low compression numbers??


Beggers, jog my memory:

You pulled the valve covers and verified rockers are going choo-choo?
You double checked that you didn't butcher anything during your snipping-spree or the re-looming of the harness?
Did you move coil packs around? You can grab LS1 coil packs & plug wires for testing/Racewars purposes as well.
Swapping to stock injectors helped, correct? How did you ascertain that there were no fueling issues in the system you plumbed?



4 days. Buckle in for some long nights.

[The_Bishop]

At this point, the easiest test to run would be:

Rocker bolts snug down, then back off two turns. Run compression test. If the numbers jump up significantly, points to too-long pushrods.

The low compression test numbers are clue we shouldn't ignore. Also, crank the motor until the gauge stops climbing, that'll give the lifters a chance to pump up with a little oil.

[sweetbmxrider]

I agree. I just wonder if the gauge is bad or slow cranking speed since they were all low. After kirk told me how you measured for pushrods, I would do like the bishop says and see if the numbers improve.

Question for the pros: There's a correlation between MAF and those low compression numbers??

Nothing at all

[LS1ow]

Question for the pros: There's a correlation between MAF and those low compression numbers??


Beggers, jog my memory:

You pulled the valve covers and verified rockers are going choo-choo?
You double checked that you didn't butcher anything during your snipping-spree or the re-looming of the harness?
Did you move coil packs around? You can grab LS1 coil packs & plug wires for testing/Racewars purposes as well.
Swapping to stock injectors helped, correct? How did you ascertain that there were no fueling issues in the system you plumbed?



No Relation between MAF and compression, like we were talking in text, im starting to think low compression doesnt have to do with the firing issues.

Rocker bolts snug down, then back off two turns. Run compression test. If the numbers jump up significantly, points to too-long pushrods.

The low compression test numbers are clue we shouldn't ignore. Also, crank the motor until the gauge stops climbing, that'll give the lifters a chance to pump up with a little oil.

I had the rockers down snug with the pushords in for the leakdown and nothing got by the valves, it all came past the rings. You can clearly hear the air coming out of the crankcase(still had timing cover off) No hissing out of exhaust or top end. Wouldnt this verify pushrods are not holding valves open?

I agree. I just wonder if the gauge is bad or slow cranking speed since they were all low. After kirk told me how you measured for pushrods, I would do like the bishop says and see if the numbers improve.



I can grab the gauge from work and try it with that one. Mine is SnapOn, not sure of the work brand. Its audi supplied.

[sweetbmxrider]

Low compression will definitely give you firing issues. Snapon should be good. Wanna buy my car?

[LS1ow]

Low compression will definitely give you firing issues. Snapon should be good. Wanna buy my car?

no way lmao this is my last fbody hurrah

[BonzoHansen]

no way lmao this is my last fbody hurrah

don't blame the car for the loose nut in the toolbox. :)

[LS1ow]

don't blame the car for the loose nut in the toolbox. :)

Haha what i mean is Id like to graduate to a C5 or C6

[KirkEvil]

Haha what i mean is Id like to graduate to a C5 or C6

Just give me a call when you're ready for that diploma

[The_Bishop]

I had the rockers down snug with the pushords in for the leakdown and nothing got by the valves, it all came past the rings. You can clearly hear the air coming out of the crankcase(still had timing cover off) No hissing out of exhaust or top end. Wouldnt this verify pushrods are not holding valves open?


No, not really because when the lifters sit, they bleed down which will let the valves close. If you crank it with all the plugs out, it should turn over pretty quick, which will build oil pressure, which will get the lifters to do what they'd be doing when running. If the pushrods are slightly too long in a hydraulic lifter setup, it'll show in a compression test but not necessarily in a leakdown test.

[The_Bishop]

https://i.imgur.com/UuNSK19.gif

[BonzoHansen]

Haha what i mean is Id like to graduate to a C5 or C6

At this rate i think graduation is less likely than being left back. :lol:

[The_Bishop]

If the pushrods are too long and hanging the valves open while the engine's trying to run, it'll bleed off cylinder pressure which will make it run like ca-ca, and the back pressure will force a combustible amount of fuel/air into the intake, which will occasionally ignite when some burning gasses leak into it, hence the backfires.

That's my theory, anyway.

[sweetbmxrider]

no way lmao this is my last fbody hurrah

Ok ok......I'll sell you my 10 second lt1. Had compression last time I used it :rofl:

[LS1ow]

Knock Knock...


whos there?

Endless pit.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4583/26707584789_78ae753aec_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GG4mtP)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/GG4mtP) by mickey beggs (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150794795@N08/), on Flickr

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4581/26707583649_27e4125857_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GG4m9a)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/GG4m9a) by mickey beggs (https://www.flickr.com/photos/150794795@N08/), on Flickr